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hatshepsut93
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April 26, 2022, 06:52:31 PM
 #21

Of course, I'm advocating this for some time already: large scale miners should build their own (green) energy production facilities. This will ensure they can operate for very long, no matter how low the block reward will drop and would also shut off the political trolls.

Why should they make a large and risky investment if they can just look for existing electricity supply? If Bitcoin crashes and mining becomes unprofitable, what would they do with their power plants? They would be able to sell only a small fraction of their capacity at best.

They don't get much, if anything, from such investments, and only take risks.
Gyfts
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April 26, 2022, 07:39:28 PM
 #22

...

Elon Musk has no deep understanding of the energy usage associated with doge. He follows the doge strictly for memes and jokes. His following seem slightly neurotic about Elon's dealings with doge, they don't realize he's not serious about any of it. Though, Musk is serious about Bitcoin and its energy consumption, and I'd classify that more as being misinformed because he omits energy costs associated with fiat currencies in his analysis of energy consumption within the context of financial systems.
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April 26, 2022, 07:46:02 PM
 #23


I recommend reading them in their entirety, as this thread only provides summary excerpts.



The "problem" of the environmental friendliness of bitcoin mining has been keenly discussed throughout the past year. The same Elon Musk urged miners to switch to green energy and then he will resume support for bitcoin in his company Tesla. Because of these statements and discussions, the bitcoin exchange rate has been constantly declining.

Recently, a report on this topic was published, which states that all these arguments are incorrect. For example, the study says that the share of bitcoin emissions is only ~0.08% of the total global emissions in 2016. And also that bitcoin leaves a much smaller environmental footprint compared to the same industries of aviation, maritime transport, and even when using electrical appliances, such as air conditioners or fans.

The full report can be viewed here: The Bitcoin Mining Network

Doesn't it remind you of anything? Of course. The same story as the problem of using bitcoin for money laundering or drug purchases. And if you calculate what percentage of the use of fiat or other assets is used in such transactions, then, again, the footprint of bitcoin will be the same fractions of a percent of the total world volume. But it is necessary to fight, by all means, with bitcoin. Undecided

In article Everything You've Heard About Bitcoin Mining and the Environment is Wrong are key excerpts from The Bitcoin Mining Network report:

Quote
Key Takeaways:

- Bitcoin mining uses approximately 0.05% of the total energy consumed globally

- Bitcoin mining is responsible for for approximately 0.08% of global CO2-equivalent (CO2e) emissions

- Bitcoin mining has a very small environmental footprint relative to other industries such as Aviation or Marine Transport, and is much smaller than Data Centers and even US domestic Air Conditioners, Electric Fans, and Tumble Dryers

- Mining is highly beneficial to renewables heavy grids, as demonstrated by its large-scale integration with Texas’ wind-heavy ERCOT grid

- The carbon footprint of flared and vented natural gas in the United States is enough to completely offset all Bitcoin mining emissions, or even have a positive net emissions impact

The share of bitcoin in global energy consumption is negligible, about 0.05%. And the share of emissions due to bitcoin mining is only 0.08%:

Bitcoin mining allows you to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from oil fields. Since dry natural gas is released during the extraction of liquid oil, it is usually wasted in flare towers. It is burned because it is unprofitable, since the gas is dry, it cannot be collected, transported, and there is also no necessary infrastructure for processing, so it is simply burned. Natural gas consists mainly of methane, which is 30 times more powerful than CO2, and when burned, the gas from methane is converted into water and CO2. This significantly increases CO2 emissions into the atmosphere. Each ton of methane corresponds to 32 tons of CO2.

Bitcoin mining solves several problems at once: it reduces CO2 emissions and does not allow wasting energy, as it happens in oil fields:

It is also worth noting that, in terms of the carbon intensity of the energy it consumes, Bitcoin produces less CO2 per unit of energy than the global average:

Quote
At our last estimated carbon intensity of 466 gCO2/kWh (December 2021), Bitcoin produces less carbon per unit of energy than the global average at 492 gCO2/kWh (2019).

The decline was due to the 2021 Chinese ban. In the future, the carbon intensity of bitcoin mining will continue to decline as bitcoin miners are more mobile than traditional industries and can therefore move quickly to places where cheap renewable energy is available. For example, last year, hashrate production depended on Chinese energy sources, which were predominantly coal and hydropower. The Chinese ban has reduced the consumption of coal and hydro energy, reducing CO2 emissions as well.

So much misdirection and poor comparisons, this is part of the mistrust that many outsiders have when trying to talk to advocates of cryptocurrency - people framing the problem in the wrong way. Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies are a way to store and transmit money around. Making comparisons to things like airline travel or tumble dryers which serve totally different purposes is not the correct way to emphasize it's importance. The only way the average person will be comparing it is against other money moving services - like bank transfers, paypal type setups and payment card processors which are doing the same job in a much more energy efficient way because they simply don't have to calculate huge problems repeatedly.

R


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April 27, 2022, 04:49:28 AM
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #24

Of course, I'm advocating this for some time already: large scale miners should build their own (green) energy production facilities. This will ensure they can operate for very long, no matter how low the block reward will drop and would also shut off the political trolls.

Why should they make a large and risky investment if they can just look for existing electricity supply? If Bitcoin crashes and mining becomes unprofitable, what would they do with their power plants? They would be able to sell only a small fraction of their capacity at best.

They don't get much, if anything, from such investments, and only take risks.

You must be kidding...
Investing into mining devices is much riskier (on "mining gest unprofitable" path) and the businesses I am talking about probably have at least hundreds of them. More ASICs = bigger hash rate = less profitable mining.
On the other hand, if they invest into their green energy facilities they:
* will produce their own energy and mining is never unprofitable on free energy (of course, after ROI)
* if mining is no longer profitable they can sell electricity, or sell the electricity production facilities, or even sell the land and the panels
Investing into their own energy can easily be a better step and with more forward thinking than buying more ASICs.

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