Russian Ministry wants to legalize Bitcoin mining in specific areas

[ropyu1978]

It's good that Russia is recognizing bitcoin and its associated activities. Recently they have legalized bitcoin as a currency and now this incentive to allow mining at a cheaper cost. Overall this is positive for a strict communist government.

Usually Russian government doesn't have a lot of incomes except weapons sale. So if they are trying to open up in crypto world and create opportunities for them, that's definitely positive! But in Russia, don't trust a thing without seeing it in reality!

It's true as you said, we should not easily believe the statements of the Russian ministry before we see it in person, the Russian central bank banned bitcoin mining, I've also read several articles that the Russian government also banned bitcoin mining, but after Russia clashed with Ukraine now they are have issued a statement legalizing bitcoin mining in their country, maybe this has something to do with the Ukrainian state, because Ukraine has recently also proposed to legalize bitcoin in their country..

[aruldaroy]

It's good that Russia is recognizing bitcoin and its associated activities. Recently they have legalized bitcoin as a currency and now this incentive to allow mining at a cheaper cost. Overall this is positive for a strict communist government.

Usually Russian government doesn't have a lot of incomes except weapons sale. So if they are trying to open up in crypto world and create opportunities for them, that's definitely positive! But in Russia, don't trust a thing without seeing it in reality!

It's true as you said, we should not easily believe the statements of the Russian ministry before we see it in person, the Russian central bank banned bitcoin mining, I've also read several articles that the Russian government also banned bitcoin mining, but after Russia clashed with Ukraine now they are have issued a statement legalizing bitcoin mining in their country, maybe this has something to do with the Ukrainian state, because Ukraine has recently also proposed to legalize bitcoin in their country..

Actually the idea of ​​russia to map a number of special places in mining has existed before what ukraine is doing now, when the russian central bank banned crypto in the country, the russian ministry considered it a stupid act that would kill progress for its country, I think there is a current split between the russian central bank which rejects crypto and also the pro-crypto russian federal ministry, a few days ago the russian ministry proposed to develop mining in areas with a sustainable surplus in power generation, so that there is complete control over it happens to the electrical energy consumed and it will eliminate the risk of insufficient electricity supply for housing, social facilities and infrastructure in other parts of Russia.

[stompix]

That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they?

How much gas was Russia exporting to Europe before 2000?
Were we freezing to death each winter at that point? You know Yamal was fully functional in 2006, right?
Europe has the money to find alternatives, Russia doesn't have enough cloning chambers to create overnight 400 million poeple who would buy that gas from them.

But the point is, if Russia and China are banned from using SWIFT, what can they do? The narrative for a censorship-resistant protocol for money, or a settlement layer has only become more obvious.

The point is that if an alternative would be true that useful and it would bypass SWIFT North Korea would have used it to buy some damn tractors instead of still doing plowing with horses. But as you can see the alternative to SWIFT is not helping North Korea, is not helping Iran, and is not going to help Russia either.
Usually, when you think something is definitely effective and can be viewed as an alternative you have at least an example of it working like that but of course, you've got none.

As for censorship-resistant, haven't you learned anything from what happened in Canada?
A western company might try to deal with North Korea in Bitcoin but when the state finds that out it can shut it down and seize every single container or package, just like with the exchange to fiat, you don't just need a censorship-resistant currency you need censorship resistant companies, factories, trucks, and ships.
This is reality, and in this reality, things work differently than you imagine.

[zasad@]

That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they?

How much gas was Russia exporting to Europe before 2000?
Were we freezing to death each winter at that point? You know Yamal was fully functional in 2006, right?
Europe has the money to find alternatives, Russia doesn't have enough cloning chambers to create overnight 400 million poeple who would buy that gas from them.

I watched reports on Gazprom, and the company claims that it fulfills all contracts for gas supplies to Europe.
""American companies removed, in fact, a significant amount of gas from the European market and transported it first to Latin America and then to Asia," Putin stressed."
https://smotrim.ru/article/2628867
But it's cheaper to take gas in Russia.

[Wind_FURY]

That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they?

How much gas was Russia exporting to Europe before 2000?
Were we freezing to death each winter at that point? You know Yamal was fully functional in 2006, right?
Europe has the money to find alternatives, Russia doesn't have enough cloning chambers to create overnight 400 million poeple who would buy that gas from them.

I’m not sure, but how much natural gas the Russia export today? Plus would you truly believe for Russia to be so useless to Western Europe, that they will simply sanction them?

But the point is, if Russia and China are banned from using SWIFT, what can they do? The narrative for a censorship-resistant protocol for money, or a settlement layer has only become more obvious.

The point is that if an alternative would be true that useful and it would bypass SWIFT North Korea would have used it to buy some damn tractors instead of still doing plowing with horses. But as you can see the alternative to SWIFT is not helping North Korea, is not helping Iran, and is not going to help Russia either.

That’s another debate. North Korea, and Iran’s economic problems won’t be solved by Bitcoin. Wealth begets wealth, I am merely presenting a debate of Bitcoin as a protocol.

Usually, when you think something is definitely effective and can be viewed as an alternative you have at least an example of it working like that but of course, you've got none.

As a protocol/network, you don’t believe that Bitcoin is effective for censorship-resistance and regulatory circumvention? It has been proven through its ultility in the dark markets.

As for censorship-resistant, haven't you learned anything from what happened in Canada?

CoinJoins, and mixers will fix it ser.

A western company might try to deal with North Korea in Bitcoin but when the state finds that out it can shut it down and seize every single container or package, just like with the exchange to fiat, you don't just need a censorship-resistant currency you need censorship resistant companies, factories, trucks, and ships.
This is reality, and in this reality, things work differently than you imagine.

It won’t be the West who deals with North Korea, but whatever country it is, it can’t use SWIFT. But an alternative?

[Odusko]

Russian Bitcoin mining taxation if viewed from the positive perspective will allow for bitcoin adoption because there is no way the Russian government will collect taxes from an asset that is not legalized in its domain, secondly, I don't see anything wrong in regulating Bitcoin mining and regulating bitcoin mining does not equal regulation of the Bitcoin network. Note Bitcoin services can easily be regulated and taxed it bitcoin itself that is not possible for regulators to temper with it network.

[stompix]

I watched reports on Gazprom, and the company claims

A claim from Gazprom is worth less than one satoshi (on bitcoinsv).

I’m not sure, but how much natural gas the Russia export today?

If you're not sure about things why don't you check them before making claims and arguing with me?  

That’s another debate. North Korea, and Iran’s economic problems won’t be solved by Bitcoin. Wealth begets wealth, I am merely presenting a debate of Bitcoin as a protocol.

No, it's not another debate.
I've asked you why bitcoin can't help those countries get rid of all the sanctions for so many years.
Truth is that bitcoin is used simply as an alternative payment gateway to poeple who would really want to deal with them, and those people sealed with N Korea under sanctions even before bitcoin, their problem is the source and quantity.

Proof that doesn't work.

As a protocol/network, you don’t believe that Bitcoin is effective for censorship-resistance and regulatory circumvention? It has been proven through its ultility in the dark markets.

Seriously?
Are we really comparing a guy sending a parcel to a stranger, one in billion with a factory full of workers, with a lot of needs of equipment, raw materials, fuel that needs to send containers after containers, cook the books about who bought them and then ship under the radar thousands of gear part or motors or electronics?
You can sell a cookie to your neighbor for bitcoin and the state will never know, but try to send 10 000 of them to Pyongyang, see if it works, search for buyers on Alphabay. Oh wait..

It won’t be the West who deals with North Korea, but whatever country it is, it can’t use SWIFT. But an alternative?

You refuse to see the huge problem in front of you, finding a guy that would sell you something when we talk at country size level resources is a billion harder than sending a payment.

Bitcoin can be used exceptionally well for personal finances, personal payments, as you can Blend in with billions, the moment you try to use it for huge size deals you need the find a solution for the real life covering of all this, and this is something bitcoin can't do and it wasn't ever supposed to do.

[Haunebu]

I don't think this is a good idea since miners already have a lot on their plate and additional taxes would push their profits even lower which would force them to stop mining altogether in both the short-term and the long-term.

Russia is being fickle by banning crypto mining to trying to regulate them which is very similar to what some other countries(India, China etc) have done in recent times.

I feel that this is some sort of clever strategy being used by world governments for financial reasons.

[franky1]

a few days ago the russian ministry proposed to develop mining in areas with a sustainable surplus in power generation, so that there is complete control over it happens to the electrical energy consumed and it will eliminate the risk of insufficient electricity supply for housing, social facilities and infrastructure in other parts of Russia.

yep.
if they made a power plant that is 'future proof for residential expansion' EG current demand is 33% of the new power stations capacity to allow for 3x residential housing growth over X decades.
then for X decades they power plant is only working at 33% capacity or wasting excess capacity thats not consumed.. meaning its not getting 66% of potential income it could be capable of getting.

so for decades its missing out on alot of income.
because houses take too much time to build and then find residents that want to move into them. they cant just 3x the number of houses in 1 year. it would take decades to grow the population.

however if they offer that 66% excess to other industries then the power company can get more income faster and sooner, to then use that excess income for more upgrades in other regions. to then upgrade the country alot faster and sooner

off topic:
windfury has been hyping up his latest buzzword of the month "censorship-resistance" since he learned it from one of his pals talking about "bitcoin is great for donating to the freedom convoy" and "government cant get the coins, its impossible because bitcoin is censorship resistant.

he certainly loves sheep following buzzwords without understanding what they mean or how they apply to real life

problem is that the freedom convoy organisers were too publicly known and got slammed by a court order that they, anyone they know, anyone that knows them cant spend, move, distribute, pass, the known funds.
or any service that sees the known bitcoin funds being deposited into the service, has to freeze the account.

punishment being prison/massive fine if funds do move/those involved disobey the court order.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5386025.msg59293156#msg59293156
simple terms.. pay the court $20m and the order disappears. if the funds move. then those listed in the order have broken the court order, which means fines or prison time

shame he didnt do his research. because now the coins are left in limbo and the truckers are not getting paid as promised...!!

bitcoin is only as great as the pseudonymity the person holding the funds personally hides under.
if the fund holder goes public. expect law enforcement to court order the fund holder to stop doing things or go to prison/get fined.

censorship resistant. is not the same as what windfury tries to make it sound like EG "100% impossible for government to touch" nonsense
yes bitcoin is resistant, but not censorship-impossible

[zasad@]

I watched reports on Gazprom, and the company claims

A claim from Gazprom is worth less than one satoshi (on bitcoinsv).

I do not understand your negativity towards Gazprom. For example, Germany has entered into a long-term contract and buys gas at prices that are 5-10 times lower than the market price.
We are told stories about green energy, but all waste from production is taken to Third World countries. Gas is used not only for domestic purposes, but also in industry, and there is no alternative for the next 10 years.

[Smartprofit]

It's good that Russia is recognizing bitcoin and its associated activities. Recently they have legalized bitcoin as a currency and now this incentive to allow mining at a cheaper cost. Overall this is positive for a strict communist government.

Usually Russian government doesn't have a lot of incomes except weapons sale. So if they are trying to open up in crypto world and create opportunities for them, that's definitely positive! But in Russia, don't trust a thing without seeing it in reality!

It's true as you said, we should not easily believe the statements of the Russian ministry before we see it in person, the Russian central bank banned bitcoin mining, I've also read several articles that the Russian government also banned bitcoin mining, but after Russia clashed with Ukraine now they are have issued a statement legalizing bitcoin mining in their country, maybe this has something to do with the Ukrainian state, because Ukraine has recently also proposed to legalize bitcoin in their country..

No, this is not the reason...

Large corporations affiliated with law enforcement agencies are involved in Bitcoin mining in Russia.  For them it's just business, no politics.  For mining purposes, excess electricity power is used.  There are a lot of power plants in Russia.  

There are two influential groups in Russia.  

The first group is mining Bitcoin and controls the Ministry of Finance.  The second group lobbies for the digital ruble (CBDC) and controls the Central Bank of the Russian Federation.  

These groups have different financial interests and different ideas about the future fate of Bitcoin.

[Odusko]

The proposal aims to recognize crypto mining as a commercial activity and introduce taxes on its realized profits.

Yes, crypto mining can be recognized as a commercial activities and the issues of tax is also acceptable but what seems controversial is paying of task base on its realized profit which shouldn't, i also think of maybe channeling that to base on the power consumption and supply rate rather. I've red many articles talking about the financial challenges encountered by individual miners which could be challenging in deriving a financial means.

Russian government have been on the rise for taxation after there have established a target of about 13 billion dollars in Bitcoin taxation, looking at bitcoin mining for the realization of such tax period will definitely show up, but considering the many challenges for miners presently this tax will bring harsh business period for miners.

[darewaller]

It pleases me to see that the Russian government has changed their mind on banning Bitcoin, and have decided to legalize and regulate crypto transactions. That is far much better than placing a ban on it. Earlier this year, I have been seeing news that the Russian government (and the EU in general) were proposing a ban on Bitcoin and also cryptocurrency exchanges. But no one was really sure about it, whether it was going to happen or not.

But, even then there was news that cryptocurrency miners were moving to Russia as the Chinese government banned cryptocurrency entirely. But no one was really sure what would be the outcome. Finally now we know, and it is good.

[Wind_FURY]

I’m not sure, but how much natural gas the Russia export today?

If you're not sure about things why don't you check them before making claims and arguing with me?  

But do you truly know? Because you would know that most of European homes would be freezing if Russia shut the pipes.

That’s another debate. North Korea, and Iran’s economic problems won’t be solved by Bitcoin. Wealth begets wealth, I am merely presenting a debate of Bitcoin as a protocol.

No, it's not another debate.
I've asked you why bitcoin can't help those countries get rid of all the sanctions for so many years.
Truth is that bitcoin is used simply as an alternative payment gateway to poeple who would really want to deal with them, and those people sealed with N Korea under sanctions even before bitcoin, their problem is the source and quantity.

Proof that doesn't work.

But it does work. Bitcoin as a protocol can literally be used today to bypass SWIFT. If Russia and China implemented a platform using Bitcoin as the settlement layer to deal with Iran and North Korea, it would be censorship-resistant. You don’t believe Bitcoin is censorship-resistant?

As a protocol/network, you don’t believe that Bitcoin is effective for censorship-resistance and regulatory circumvention? It has been proven through its ultility in the dark markets.

Seriously?
Are we really comparing a guy sending a parcel to a stranger, one in billion with a factory full of workers, with a lot of needs of equipment, raw materials, fuel that needs to send containers after containers, cook the books about who bought them and then ship under the radar thousands of gear part or motors or electronics?
You can sell a cookie to your neighbor for bitcoin and the state will never know, but try to send 10 000 of them to Pyongyang, see if it works, search for buyers on Alphabay. Oh wait..

If Russia and China built a platform that uses Bitcoin as the settlement layer, and they traded with North Korea and Iran, to buy oil, or I don’t know, maybe nuclear warheads, how can transactions be censored?

It won’t be the West who deals with North Korea, but whatever country it is, it can’t use SWIFT. But an alternative?

You refuse to see the huge problem in front of you, finding a guy that would sell you something when we talk at country size level resources is a billion harder than sending a payment.

Bitcoin can be used exceptionally well for personal finances, personal payments, as you can Blend in with billions, the moment you try to use it for huge size deals you need the find a solution for the real life covering of all this, and this is something bitcoin can't do and it wasn't ever supposed to do.

It is my belief that Bitcoin’s underlying nature in geo-politics and its ability in weakening political strongholds has not been discovered yet. You might disagree, but in 20 years? Bitcoin is no mere protocol for personal finances.

[stompix]

I do not understand your negativity towards Gazprom. For example, Germany has entered into a long-term contract and buys gas at prices that are 5-10 times lower than the market price.

Because I trust numbers, not propaganda.
And do you have a quote for that 5-10 times? You know is bs, actually elephants' size.
Gas is now 3 times more expensive, if Germany would have a deal that it would make it 10 times cheaper compared to now it would mean it's 2.5 times lower than the gas Russia was selling to China before the crisis, so do you think Russia was screwing China with a 250% premium?  

You can't have those numbers and you know it pretty well.
Besides, how would Russia be able to offer such a discount when their gas was only -23% cheaper than LNG prior to this, so that's 1/3, nowhere near 5x.

Here, directly from a Russian official on tass:

"Is this the unfair competition? Definitely. This is unfair competition with improper means," the diplomat said. "In any case, even if the US has so much LNG that can be filled to the brim and have as many tankers as streetcars, the price will be at least 30% higher," the envoy stressed.

Now fill me in the difference from 30% to 1000%.

But do you truly know? Because you would know that most of European homes would be freezing if Russia shut the pipes.

Russian gas accounts for 30% of imports, not all that gas is used for heating homes, 20% of it is used in Germany to power gas plants, they could simply power coal powerplants instead.
If we exclude Russian gas down from 100% Europe would still have 70%, which is far above the 37% of total natural gas that is consumed by the residential sector and this gas burned for electricity for the residential sector..

So even without Russia Europe would have twice the gas to heat all homes if it switches consumption off from other activities.

But it does work. Bitcoin as a protocol can literally be used today to bypass SWIFT. If Russia and China implemented a platform using Bitcoin as the settlement layer to deal with Iran and North Korea, it would be censorship-resistant. You don’t believe Bitcoin is censorship-resistant?

I honestly think you have no idea what SWIFT is, no offense.
And again, the can thing, theoretically, everything could work for everything it just happens that it doesn't right now in the real world.
We had bitcoin for 13 years and rumors about it being used like that for 7 yet...no such proof of it working.
Directly from the Russia propaganda mouth piece:

Harirchi said “five million doses of purchased flu vaccine have been blocked at an airport due to the sanctions against Iran and they cannot be cleared and exported to the country.”

Do you see? It doesn't work even if you managed to pay for it!

If

If I were Satoshi...

It is my belief that Bitcoin’s underlying nature in geo-politics and its ability in weakening political strongholds has not been discovered yet.

Everyone is allowed to believe whatever he wants, you believe one thing, I tell you reality is different and this is what I believe.

[Markinzo]

I hope this is not another bipolar tussle? Be that as it may, hope there's no future hidden intent behind their decision of legalizing Bitcoin mining in its ministry? Only time will tell!

[Argoo]

If I understand correctly, mining is not currently banned in Russia, so it is not clear what exactly they want to legalise? It seems that the government wants to make private small farms stay in the shadows, it will be beneficial for the big miners, which are likely to be owned by those close to the government.

In Russia, there is still a dispute between the position of the Central Bank, which wants to completely ban the mining of cryptocurrency and its circulation in the country, and the Ministry of Finance, where they want to legalize and regulate cryptocurrency, and legalize it as a means of payment, which is not yet in Russia.
I don’t know if they will pay attention to cryptocurrency in the near future, since Putin today recognized part of the occupied territory of Ukraine as two independent republics and, through a cooperation agreement with them, will officially send troops. The world is really on the verge of a third world war, and Russia as a state may soon disappear.

[Wind_FURY]

But do you truly know? Because you would know that most of European homes would be freezing if Russia shut the pipes.

Russian gas accounts for 30% of imports, not all that gas is used for heating homes, 20% of it is used in Germany to power gas plants, they could simply power coal powerplants instead.
If we exclude Russian gas down from 100% Europe would still have 70%, which is far above the 37% of total natural gas that is consumed by the residential sector and this gas burned for electricity for the residential sector..

So even without Russia Europe would have twice the gas to heat all homes if it switches consumption off from other activities.

You say that as if it was so easy. It won’t be easy, especially for the Europeans that have started shutting down Nuclear Power.

But it does work. Bitcoin as a protocol can literally be used today to bypass SWIFT. If Russia and China implemented a platform using Bitcoin as the settlement layer to deal with Iran and North Korea, it would be censorship-resistant. You don’t believe Bitcoin is censorship-resistant?

I honestly think you have no idea what SWIFT is, no offense.
And again, the can thing, theoretically, everything could work for everything it just happens that it doesn't right now in the real world.

Ad Hominem. None of what you said addressed the debate.

We had bitcoin for 13 years and rumors about it being used like that for 7 yet...no such proof of it working.
Directly from the Russia propaganda mouth piece:

Harirchi said “five million doses of purchased flu vaccine have been blocked at an airport due to the sanctions against Iran and they cannot be cleared and exported to the country.”

Do you see? It doesn't work even if you managed to pay for it!

That’s not the point, the same thing would happen through any protocol of settlement.

If

If I were Satoshi...

That doesn’t address the debate again.

It is my belief that Bitcoin’s underlying nature in geo-politics and its ability in weakening political strongholds has not been discovered yet.

Everyone is allowed to believe whatever he wants, you believe one thing, I tell you reality is different and this is what I believe.

OK.

[franky1]

i know a couple people above are pealing away from russia wanting mining.. to talk about the whole russia/ukraine politics of war and us sanctions.. so lets just guide them to some things they should look into to correct themselves

russia and china are already getting their 'cross-border' CBDC connected. so that russia is not reliant on the US payment system or the IMF to offer russia any 'credit/loan facility.

so russia wont be tethered to the whims of 'us sanctions' as much as the US would like.

yes the US could cut off russia's access to the IMF but russia wont care, if they need funding they can just ask china for some reserve tokens from the cross border CBDC system

some might want to read this
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/russia-and-china-partners-in-dedollarization/
it shows how russia is less caring about swift and the IMF now,  than it was in 2013

and if interested in the cross border CBDC.. look into the BIS doing the m-bridge
https://www.bis.org/publ/othp40.htm

[stompix]

~
That doesn’t address the debate again.
~

I love that rather you sneakily avoided commenting exactly the most important thing.
A real case event where a country under sanctions, despite managing to secure a shipment and paying for it hasn't been able to have that shifted to them.
So again, I'm asking you, how is bitcoin or any other type of parallel payment going to bypass a situation like the one I've pointed out before?

This is exactly the debate here, bitcoin helps in bypassing sanctions, look, we have merchandise that was ordered paid and stopped from being delivered, and the country that ordered it got nothing and lost the money also, how will bitcoin act differently? How will bitcoin make a difference?
What is so hard to understand is that if the police come to my parent's business and tell us if we export one single truck of meat to Russia we're going to get arrested we won't give a damn about what you pay us? You can ask the tooth fairy to sneak in during the night and put gold bars under our pillow to make it totally undetectable, but we can't make a truck invisible while crossing the border, get some alien to drive it, and at the same time cook the books as nothing happened, not without our own workers realizing something really fishy is going on.

Bitcoin or monero or any other coin or any other means of payment were not built for this, it was never their purpose, they exist in the digital world, goods need to be transported in the real one. I understand your enthusiasm but you need to a reality check.