Russian Ministry wants to legalize Bitcoin mining in specific areas

[_act_]

This is about Russian ministry to legalize Bitcoin mining in some specific areas in Russia.

Russian Ministry wants to legalize Bitcoin mining in specific areas

As part of the proposal, the ministry suggested introducing lower fees for setting up mining farms and data centers in specific Russian regions as well as offering reduced energy rates for such facilities.

The ministry also wants to establish a power use limit for mining by individuals, reportedly proposing to introduce higher energy rates for increased energy spending. The authority is yet to determine a threshold amount for this, the report notes.

According to the ministry, the newly proposed rules would remove the risks of insufficient power supply for housing, social facilities and infrastructure in other regions of the country.]As part of the proposal, the ministry suggested introducing lower fees for setting up mining farms and data centers in specific Russian regions as well as offering reduced energy rates for such facilities.

The ministry also wants to establish a power use limit for mining by individuals, reportedly proposing to introduce higher energy rates for increased energy spending. The authority is yet to determine a threshold amount for this, the report notes.

According to the ministry, the newly proposed rules would remove the risks of insufficient power supply for housing, social facilities and infrastructure in other regions of the country.

With this I think even electricity from other businesses including households can be segregated from the energy bitcoin miners are using. This is not what I am concerned about, what I am concerned about is this:

The proposal aims to recognize crypto mining as a commercial activity and introduce taxes on its realized profits.

Normally, Bitcoin mining is censorship resistant, I do not know how this will be taxed in a way the government of Russia will not make Bitcoin to becoming a centralized asset like making miners addresses compulsorily mandatory for submission for the government to track in a way the government can be able to tax Bitcoin miners in Russia. Or how is this done in countries like US, is Bitcoin mining taxed?

[Wind_FURY]

If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.

[btc_angela]

And as far as 2018, Russia or at least some part of it are into mining already isn't it?

There are even news that they have put up or some entity has some mining facility established already. That's why I was surprised about the news recently saying that Russia will ban everything related to crypto. If so, if crypto mining an exception?

Or this news proved again not to trust Russia because they totally contradicts themselves and take everything with a grain of salt?

[Lucius]

Normally, Bitcoin mining is censorship resistant, I do not know how this will be taxed in a way the government of Russia will not make Bitcoin to becoming a centralized asset like making miners addresses compulsorily mandatory for submission for the government to track in a way the government can be able to tax Bitcoin miners in Russia. Or how is this done in countries like US, is Bitcoin mining taxed?

I don't see anything controversial in keeping everything in line with the law - someone sets up a crypto mining farm, negotiates the price of electricity and eventually pays taxes on what he earns. Anyone can try to mine to a minimum, to stay under the radar - but all the big mining farms anywhere in the world pay taxes, one way or another. When it comes to the US - everything is pretty clear -> IRS Guidance On Cryptocurrency Mining Taxes

If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.

Well, Russia has never banned crypto mining, only the focus of the miners has been on China, logically because of cheap energy, labor, and the availability of mining devices. I see that you still have a theory that China has no choice but to have to allow crypto mining again just because the Russians or the US will do it - but they do it all the time. China and Russia are among the last countries in the world to accept Bitcoin the way you imagine it, China has said a clear NO, Russia is closer to that attitude than to something positive.

[YOSHIE]

This is about Russian ministry to legalize Bitcoin mining in some specific areas in Russia.

How are the miners that have been going on in Russia so far, they seem to be fine, long before this news was published, where has the ministry been, did he forget to legalize the existing miners.

As far as I know in Moscow, if I'm not mistaken it is close to the Angara River, approximately 4,000 kilometers if we depart from Russia, There, there are companies, operating on data and mining, for Bitcoin.

If the ministry makes laws against Bitcoin miners and taxes for legal miners, I think they can do it, reasoning: electricity, internet the tools russian miners need have it all or some other reason russia is a cool country to cool off the heat, I think that what the Russian ministry wants to do is proper and professional steps for mining.

[fzkto]

If I understand correctly, mining is not currently banned in Russia, so it is not clear what exactly they want to legalise? It seems that the government wants to make private small farms stay in the shadows, it will be beneficial for the big miners, which are likely to be owned by those close to the government.

[Flexystar]

I don’t think we need to be concerned about mining being commercialised. I intact see it as way of accepting the crypto currencies and thus Russia motivating others for the same. If china follow them as friendly nation then rival nations would go for full fledged mining just because to stay in the competition.

These things happen when it’s all about commercial competition too. With the crypto gaining huge attention all the countries have no options but to accept it and inject the same into official system.

[Artemis3]

It seems that the government wants to make private small farms stay in the shadows, it will be beneficial for the big miners, which are likely to be owned by those close to the government.

Exactly like Venezuela. They imposed rules which were made to ilegalize small miners, of course there is a group of large companies getting all the benefits, no doubt close to the gov. Those two govs are close "friends" after all...

[fiulpro]

I do think that Russia is currently looking for ways to increase their economic inflow right now. They want to do everything that there is to make sure they have a strong political presence in the area. I do think that government will try and put the controlled farms in such a way that they would have complete control and administration over the areas, giving the most profits to the government in return.
This controlled mining farms can be taken as a unique business proposition for most people and many countries instead of making things illegal can actually take this approach as well.
Good step for the future of Bitcoin mining for sure.

[franky1]

the average US person wastes 1.18kw/h per person (average 2.53 people per house = 2.99KW/house)
the average RU person wastes 0.91kw/h per person (average 3.2 people per house = 2.91KW/house)
the average CN person wastes 0.61kw/h per person (average 3.02 people per house = 1.84KW/house)
(yep russia is 58% worse than chinas house usage. but is 22% better than US per person)

imagining russian KWH price was say
$0.06 residential
$0.05 industrial(farm/factory)
$0.09 business(office/retail)

i would presume a regiment like this for homes:
residential: first 2KW perH=$0.04, next 3KW per H=$0.06 anything more per hour=$0.09
this way bills are cheaper if they stay below 3kw per h. the same as now if peaking over this (when heating/lights needed seasonally)
and excessive if used excessively

normal usage 2.9KW/h = 69.84kw/d
EG
= 69.84kw/d @ 0.06 = $4.19 (old standard price)
EG (my idea of rates)
= totals daily  48kwh @ 0.04 =$1.92 21.84kwh @ 0.06 =$1.31
= $3.23 (my idea price)
idea being if people can get household below 2kwh to be like china. they can pay $1.92 for 48kw/d (2kw/h)

EG normal usage 2.91HW+ an asic(3.25kw)
= 6.16kw/h = 147.84kw/d
= daily cost 48kw @ $0.04, 72kw @ $0.06, 27.84kw @ $0.09,
= total             $1.92    +        $4.32       +            $2.51
=$8.75 ($5.52 to run one asic for a day)

EG normal usage 2.91HW+ an 3 asics (6.5kw)
= 9.41kw/h = 225.84kw/d
= daily cost 48kw @ $0.04, 72kw @ $0.06, 105.84kw @ $0.09,
= total             $1.92       +      $4.32       +        $9.53
=$15.77 ($12.54 to run two asics for a day($6.27 each asic))

thus making it more expensive to run more then 1 asic from home
..
i would presume a regiment like this for industry:
industrial: KWH in renewable region=$0.033, KWH in fossil region =$0.05
this way bills are cheaper if the run industry in certain areas, without negatively impacting those already settled
where by those settled in fossil fuel can push their energy company to upgrade to renewable to offer discount to customers

[avikz]

It's good that Russia is recognizing bitcoin and its associated activities. Recently they have legalized bitcoin as a currency and now this incentive to allow mining at a cheaper cost. Overall this is positive for a strict communist government.

Usually Russian government doesn't have a lot of incomes except weapons sale. So if they are trying to open up in crypto world and create opportunities for them, that's definitely positive! But in Russia, don't trust a thing without seeing it in reality!

[Fortify]

This is about Russian ministry to legalize Bitcoin mining in some specific areas in Russia.

Russian Ministry wants to legalize Bitcoin mining in specific areas

With this I think even electricity from other businesses including households can be segregated from the energy bitcoin miners are using. This is not what I am concerned about, what I am concerned about is this:

The proposal aims to recognize crypto mining as a commercial activity and introduce taxes on its realized profits.

Normally, Bitcoin mining is censorship resistant, I do not know how this will be taxed in a way the government of Russia will not make Bitcoin to becoming a centralized asset like making miners addresses compulsorily mandatory for submission for the government to track in a way the government can be able to tax Bitcoin miners in Russia. Or how is this done in countries like US, is Bitcoin mining taxed?

The Russian economy is in tatters at present and they have few outlets besides selling resources. Through corruption and crime their businesses are crippled, because nobody can succeed to a large scale independent of government, they either get bullied to relinquish control or worm their way into the existing establishment spiderweb to survive - always having to watch out they don't get undermined. It is a highly inefficient setup and there are currently sanctions layered on top of it. The Russian people themselves are just as competent as any other country and could flourish, but they are stunted by the crony government system they fall under. The Russian government is basically seeing mining as a money making investment, they can convert their energy resources into hard cash instead of selling it as a raw commodity. All these areas will be strictly controlled with the majority of revenues going to the government now they see a money making opportunity in it.

[SFR10]

The ministry also wants to establish a power use limit for mining by individuals, reportedly proposing to introduce higher energy rates for increased energy spending. The authority is yet to determine a threshold amount for this, the report notes.

This is exactly one of the main reasons why I stopped my mining operations as a "small-scale" home miner in the past and the same thing would probably happen to a lot of individual miners in there!

According to the ministry, the newly proposed rules would remove the risks of insufficient power supply for housing, social facilities and infrastructure in other regions of the country.

This may sound like I'm contradicting myself, but if a significant amount of individual miners, for some reason decide to continue their home operations ^{[even with the increased rates]}, then they'd probably have a hard time achieving the above line.

[_act_]

If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country?

I am not thinking China will think of mining Bitcoin, total ban was place on cryptocurrencies in China, China like to just be totally centralized. It is obvious China knows the benefits of Bitcoin mining but just that it does not want anything decentralized.

If I understand correctly, mining is not currently banned in Russia, so it is not clear what exactly they want to legalise? It seems that the government wants to make private small farms stay in the shadows, it will be beneficial for the big miners, which are likely to be owned by those close to the government.

The central bank of Russia were making moves to make sure cryptocurrencies are banned in Russia until the president Vladimir Putin talks good about it and not long the bank of Russia is working to accept bitcoin as a currency. If the bank of Russia was successful, cryptocurrencies would have been banned in the country.

[DeathAngel]

Russia being bullish about bitcoin is very good for. They have vast energy resources so mining on huge scales is no problem. I guess the only negative is if the US does the opposite because of bad relations with Russia & comes down hard. That would really not be good.

[dkbit98]

This is about Russian ministry to legalize Bitcoin mining in some specific areas in Russia.is this:

Latest news I heard today is that no deal was reached between Russian central bank and their ministry, and everything has been postponed until February 18th.
This is some chess game everyone is playing and they are probably testing the grounds how other countries will react to this.
It's much harder for Russia to control mining than it is for China and other countries, but they can certainly impose more taxes and regulations.

If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.

Russia never stopped mining Bitcoin so there is nothing to restart, mining is legal there, and I don't believe China will start again officially no matter what Russia or any other country is doing.
I think we are going to see more countries pushing for CBDC centralized coins and China will be followed by EU who is preparing their new digital currency for 2023, according to latest reports I saw yesterday.

[Wind_FURY]

If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.

Well, Russia has never banned crypto mining, only the focus of the miners has been on China, logically because of cheap energy, labor, and the availability of mining devices. I see that you still have a theory that China has no choice but to have to allow crypto mining again just because the Russians or the US will do it - but they do it all the time. China and Russia are among the last countries in the world to accept Bitcoin the way you imagine it, China has said a clear NO, Russia is closer to that attitude than to something positive.

I’m not pointing out about “bans, and regulations”. I’m talking about absolute acceptance, publicly or secretly, and an actual nation-state mining Bitcoin for the benefit of themselves, directly or indirectly. Because I believe Bitcoin’s true nature in international politics/geo-politics has not been truly discovered yet, nor has that been priced in.

[n0ne]

Russia being the fourth largest generator as well as consumer of electricity makes cryptocurrency mining possible. 46% of the electricity production is out of coal. There is not much of alternate source of energy production. Maybe something like solar energy generation could boost the mining, because depending on the climatic situation Russia used to be energy dependent. If it can create alternative, this will help Russia to be self sufficient in energy generation.

Bitcoin mining can turn to be a big industry, because of the cheap electricity and the favourable climatic conditions. Russia focusing on legalizing bitcoin mining also makes other neighbouring countries to take similar decision on bitcoin mining.

[_act_]

Latest news I heard today is that no deal was reached between Russian central bank and their ministry, and everything has been postponed until February 18th.

This is confusing, I do not mean what you posted, but what central bank of Russia is doing, this is about mining, how should a central bank be concerned about Bitcoin mining in a country, this is not the work of central bank. What central bank should be concerned about is the monetary aspect of Bitcoin like how they can help people to keep Bitcoin safely in a custodial way and what they can do to make sure Bitcoin is not used for illicit activities in their country.

I think we are going to see more countries pushing for CBDC centralized coins and China will be followed by EU who is preparing their new digital currency for 2023, according to latest reports I saw yesterday.

More countries are pushing for CBDCs but what I have noticed is that CBDCs are just like fiat and have nothing to do with cryptocurrencies, CBDCs devalues and backed by fiat, and have the characteristics that can make people call it fiat. This is just a means many countries may be confusing their citizens to take CBDCs for cryptocurrencies and which is not.

[franky1]

I’m not pointing out about “bans, and regulations”. I’m talking about absolute acceptance, publicly or secretly, and an actual nation-state mining Bitcoin for the benefit of themselves, directly or indirectly. Because I believe Bitcoin’s true nature in international politics/geo-politics has not been truly discovered yet, nor has that been priced in.

there is a difference between "priced in" and "bottomline value support" increases
price is more subjective to speculative drama of emotion and temporary decisions and media hype of temporary price events.
what goes up can go down (pump and dump, hype and dip, spike and correct)
where as added value to bottomline support is more underneath the market price number. moving up at a progressive long term growth

prices can spike and correct depending on the mood and sentiment of speculators deciding which piece of news is important trade decision factor that day, and its temporary.
however the bottomline value support is based on the basic most efficient mining costs around the world absolutely no one would want to sell below because they cant even mine it any cheaper. so would rather buy coin that cheap and support the price from going below that line.

now take:el salvador
it  has a total combined electric capacity of 2gw.
and has a geothermal power plant that has a capacity of 100mw(0.1GW) that is dedicating 1.5 mw (1500kw) to bitcoin mining
this is allowing for only ~450 asics, (0.075% country cap. 1.5% power plant cap)

so small things like elsalvator going full-on in bitcoin doesnt result in much actual 'value support' of massive hashrate difference (0.049exa)
after all its not even 1% hahsrate affect, nor 0.1%, but more like a 0.026% effect
(at current bottom line value of ~$37k, it translates to about $9.62 value support added. so not even noticeable difference.)
yes the media hype might have caused some price speculation last year when it was first announced. but it didnt even move the needle of a increased value support, to support the temporary price drama media hype, thus the price corrected after the hype

but somewhere like russia which has a capacity of 220GW for all uses..52GW renewable
if russia dedicates 1.5% of all its renewable capacity to bitcoin mining(0.78gw) that would add 27.3exahash to the mining competition. which is a 14% bump at current mining competition
(note: im using a high estimate of dedication of 1.5% of all renewable russian power plants)
(note: there's no announcement of an actual figure for dedicating to mining.. so expect 14% to be optimistic top)
(note: no mining farm set up yet. so expect 14% be alot less by the time things happen)

at the moment with a baseline mining cost (bottomline value support) of ~$37k right now, that can turn into $42k bottom line support
(see notes above for emphasis)
yes it can cause more temporary speculative price drama of volatile spikes and dips. but the effect, if russia was to follow a 1.5% renewable dedication, is only at most, 14%max.. which would be less of a bottomline support % as time moves on

so dont expect a massive "priced in" effect of actual value support, but do expect some media hype causing temporary spike price drama

in short. if news hype does cause a 200% price speculation spike(new ATH). dont expect the actual value support of actual mining cost increases to equally reflect to support the 200%.

thus dont expect russia to "price-in" to any new huge sustained support value

[zasad@]

Another useless piece of news. We in Russia have already heard dozens of such proposals. For example, make the Irkutsk region a region for mining, where the price of electricity is less than 2 cents. If mining is legalized in Russia, then the same situation may happen as in Kazakhstan.

[perfect999]

I don't see anything controversial in keeping everything in line with the law - someone sets up a crypto mining farm, negotiates the price of electricity and eventually pays taxes on what he earns. Anyone can try to mine to a minimum, to stay under the radar - but all the big mining farms anywhere in the world pay taxes, one way or another.

Right, there is nothing wrong with that. I'm even happy when I see a government that is trying to put things in order by working with cryptocurrency exchanges and companies so that things are in line with the law. It is better this way than seeing governments that are always fighting against cryptocurrency and trying to ban it and stop people from making use of it in their country. What the Russian government is doing is what they are expected and should do.

When there are things like this they are meant to come in and set it up the right way and also make sure that it is not in a way that it would be unfit for those involved in the business, they do their work by trying to create balance which is right.

[Lucius]

I’m not pointing out about “bans, and regulations”. I’m talking about absolute acceptance, publicly or secretly, and an actual nation-state mining Bitcoin for the benefit of themselves, directly or indirectly.

You live in a great illusion that Bitcoin will be accepted by absolutely all people or countries in the world, and an even bigger illusion is that China or Russia will do it - especially in the political system in power there, and the chances of that changing are minimal or almost non-existent. In terms of value, all mined Bitcoin, even if it is worth x10 more than today, is not enough to interest powerful powers like China or Russia. In addition, in less than 10 years, only 1% (210 000) of BTC will remain for mining, and then who will be interested in mining?

Because I believe Bitcoin’s true nature in international politics/geo-politics has not been truly discovered yet, nor has that been priced in.

Bitcoin is clearly defined as “A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution." What does that have to do with geopolitics and some visions that don't make any sense?

[stompix]

Normally, Bitcoin mining is censorship resistant, I do not know how this will be taxed in a way the government of Russia will not make Bitcoin to becoming a centralized asset like making miners addresses compulsorily mandatory for submission for the government to track in a way the government can be able to tax Bitcoin miners in Russia. Or how is this done in countries like US, is Bitcoin mining taxed?

Bitcoin mining is a business, and it's taxed as a business, you have expenses, you have revenues, it's so simple to tax it neves ceases to amaze me why people ask these questions.
You're taxed at the value of the coins when you received a payout from a pool or if you're one lucky bastard from when you mine a block, luckily, if you are really bad at trading and you sell those coins one month later at a lower price you can file for a tax deduction as you've lost money.

If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.

And if the west doesn't want to deal with Russia?
You realize right now Russia would be just like a shop accepting Visa, Paypal, Monero, and Bitcoin, they can add used panties and discarded diapers as payment options if poeple DON'T want to deal with you they will not! Simple as this!

I’m not pointing out about “bans, and regulations”. I’m talking about absolute acceptance, publicly or secretly, and an actual nation-state mining Bitcoin for the benefit of themselves, directly or indirectly. Because I believe Bitcoin’s true nature in international politics/geo-politics has not been truly discovered yet, nor has that been priced in.

Benefits? If Russia would be mining all the coins they could get 16 billion a year from it, oil exports are 110 billion and gas 54 billion.
And that would be 100% hashrate, and of course not counting costs.
At December costs for gas, you could either get 1000kwh from burning gas or 275$ from selling it, that is enough to keep a 19pro running for !13 days making you 295$ if you would be able to convert all the energy with losses and you wouldn't have to actually buy that gear and ROI on it.

[willoweb]

This is the right way - checking in exceptional cases also gives the experience of understanding how it will be later on a countrywide scale. I think that the Republic of Tatarstan will be among the first regions, because it is serious about developing the limits of high technologies - there is even a satellite city of Innopolis. The place where, according to the idea, the Russian "silicon valley" should be formed. How it will be in reality - time will tell, but I think everything will work out in Russia!

[coolcoinz]

Last time I heard Russia was banning mining, then China banned it, then miners moved to Kazakhstan and had some problems there... Yet' after all this craze Bitcoin's hash rate is at all time high, which you can confirm here: https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate
Governments aren't stupid, they see there's money to be made here and since all attempts at banning it have failed and it's still growing, maybe the right approach is to simply allow it to flourish and profit from it. Russia with its high inflation could use some new tax payers in the form of big mining companies.

[stompix]

And if the west doesn't want to deal with Russia?
You realize right now Russia would be just like a shop accepting Visa, Paypal, Monero, and Bitcoin, they can add used panties and discarded diapers as payment options if poeple DON'T want to deal with you they will not! Simple as this!

Disconnecting Russia from SWIFT is a fiction, because after the Crimean events, Russia learned lessons and took care of import substitution of goods and services. For a state like Russia with its scientific base, creating an analogue of Swift is not a problem (especially since the Swift mechanism is not much more complicated than the mechanism of any of the messengers).

Yeah yeah, the powerful socialist workers of Russia will give it all to build better alternatives and have paved the way to escape the clutches of the European and American capitalists and their evil technologies.

Meanwhile, in the REAL world just a few days ago:
Aeroflot takes delivery of two Boeing 777s with retrofitted cabin

They are building everything on their own, except their planes, their cars, their phones, even their damn tractors as John Deeres has posted record sales for agricultural equipment in Russia. Oh did I mention caviar and vodka? They export 200mllion worth of hard liquor and import 1 billion! Not couting another 300m in beer.

Yeah, live in your fantasy world, don't forget to sell that SWIFT analog to North Korea, wonder why things haven't worked out in that case.

[kryptqnick]

The proposal to lower the bills for miners in the regions that produce more energy than they require seems like a good idea. As for the sell tax, which is proposed on mining, it would mean that taxes could be avoided by paying for things directly in Bitcoin, and also that trading would be basically impossible. However, I see that there's an alternative proposal to tax the income, not the selling. Clearly, Russia is actively figuring out how to best regulate cryptos, but the details have not been resolved yet, and different stakeholders have different opinions.
As for SWIFT that's been touched upon in the thread, unfortunately, a certain culprit (I'm looking at you, Germany) is strongly against it being a part of the sanctions package.

[jaberwock]

Normally, Bitcoin mining is censorship resistant, I do not know how this will be taxed in a way the government of Russia will not make Bitcoin to becoming a centralized asset like making miners addresses compulsorily mandatory for submission for the government to track in a way the government can be able to tax Bitcoin miners in Russia. Or how is this done in countries like US, is Bitcoin mining taxed?

Taxing on Bitcoin mining is nothing new at all , in fact every cryptocurrency mining can be taxed by the government. So there is nothing to be surprised about here . If the government decides that they would tax it in that country then they will go ahead and do that. And you as a cryptocurrency miner should as well try to comply and pay your taxes from the earnings you make from mining cryptocurrency in the country.

Cryptocurrency mining is a big business this time around and there are so many companies that are into mining cryptocurrency. It is no longer something that an individual can just start up for themselves and be doing it in their house because it requires heavy equipment. Currently, it is big companies that are setting up a mining farm, and it is quite easy for the government to locate where this mining farms are built.

[adzino]

I don't think they are doing this to create centralization. More like to keep power usage under control or something similar.

-snip-
Normally, Bitcoin mining is censorship resistant, I do not know how this will be taxed in a way the government of Russia will not make Bitcoin to becoming a centralized asset like making miners addresses compulsorily mandatory for submission for the government to track in a way the government can be able to tax Bitcoin miners in Russia. Or how is this done in countries like US, is Bitcoin mining taxed?

I doubt they will ask for miner addresses and other stuffs so they can track miners. Even if they ask for miners address, the miners can change their address or also mine using a different address and the government will never know. They will have to trust that their bitcoin miners will report their earnings to the Federal Taxation Service. Small mining business can go under the radar and hide, but big business won't be able to do that and will have to report their earnings.

[TelolettOm]

This is about Russian ministry to legalize Bitcoin mining in some specific areas in Russia.

It is good news to regulate this kind of Bitcoin mining legalization even only in several certain areas. But the next question is what about others? Still, banned or ilegal? ANd how if the mining activities in certain areas are growing very masively? Wil the regulation be revised again and again and they will change the news again like previously?
We know that the law and news about crypto industry in the country is sometimes confusing because they often legalize and but on the other hand soemtimes changing to be ilegal and spreadinf FUD.
Hopefully this will not happen again.

[zasad@]

Central Bank Chief Nabiullina Digs Heels in Over Russian Plan to Legalize Crypto
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/central-bank-chief-nabiullina-digs-heels-in-over-russian-plan-to-legalize-crypto-1.1723556

"(Bloomberg) -- Top government officials failed to reach an agreement on how to regulate cryptocurrencies at a meeting Tuesday, according to people familiar with the talks, despite President Vladimir Putin’s request for them to find a compromise. "

[Obito]

If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.

China did stop mining although the one's owned by the government didn't really stop because China wants all the bitcoin for themselves, pretty sure that they're not going to simply let go of that opportunity, not to mention that China is known to lie in their announcements or take back what they've said immediately without the public knowing.

[Poker Player]

I think it would be more important that Russia ends up legalizing Bitcoin. Somewhere I read that it could be as legal tender, although without obligation to accept it as in El Salvador. If this were to happen, I think it would boost a mining industry in Russia, but let's wait for developments, it won't be long before we know more concretely.

[_act_]

I think it would be more important that Russia ends up legalizing Bitcoin. Somewhere I read that it could be as legal tender, although without obligation to accept it as in El Salvador. If this were to happen, I think it would boost a mining industry in Russia, but let's wait for developments, it won't be long before we know more concretely.

If Russia is accepting Bitcoin as a currency, that means it can be used for buying and selling and other things related to legal tender, but due to high Bitcoin transaction fee, this is not going to be possible and the banks and laws in Russia about this will make sure Bitcoin do not dominate or affect Russian local currency, most people will see Bitcoin as an asset rather than as a currency. There will be no law about it to make bitcoin a legal tender and not making it a compulsory means of payment but an alternative. I like the moves of Russian government towards achieving this.

[lixer]

Another useless piece of news. We in Russia have already heard dozens of such proposals. For example, make the Irkutsk region a region for mining, where the price of electricity is less than 2 cents. If mining is legalized in Russia, then the same situation may happen as in Kazakhstan.

And I remember this country is also the country that said to legalize bitcoin as a currency but I wonder if that was true or just a rumor to spread hype in btc and to make it more hype, they followed it up with this news after the so called legalization of btc so that it would look perfect.

Well, they cant legalize mining first if they do not legalize the btc first because that looks wrong but I wonder why they restrict some places because the title said allowed only is specific areas? Are btc mining really that dangerous to the environment? hmm... or maybe they do not want other countries to engage with it due to how hard mining was.

[Dunamisx]

The proposal aims to recognize crypto mining as a commercial activity and introduce taxes on its realized profits.

Yes, crypto mining can be recognized as a commercial activities and the issues of tax is also acceptable but what seems controversial is paying of task base on its realized profit which shouldn't, i also think of maybe channeling that to base on the power consumption and supply rate rather. I've red many articles talking about the financial challenges encountered by individual miners which could be challenging in deriving a financial means.

[Lucius]

This is the right way - checking in exceptional cases also gives the experience of understanding how it will be later on a countrywide scale. I think that the Republic of Tatarstan will be among the first regions, because it is serious about developing the limits of high technologies - there is even a satellite city of Innopolis. The place where, according to the idea, the Russian "silicon valley" should be formed. How it will be in reality - time will tell, but I think everything will work out in Russia!

I may have misunderstood some news from Russia, but isn't there already some version of Russian Silicon Valley there?As far as I know, this is Skolkovo, which is located near Moscow, and a lot of money has been invested there (they say about 6 billion euros so far) and it looks very impressive and modern, even though it is far from the American Silicon Valley.

For all those who think that Russia is a promised land for Bitcoin, maybe they should study a little better what is really happening in that country where people are still persecuted and killed just because they have different political opinions.

[stompix]

I may have misunderstood some news from Russia, but isn't there already some version of Russian Silicon Valley there?As far as I know, this is Skolkovo, which is located near Moscow, and a lot of money has been invested there (they say about 6 billion euros so far) and it looks very impressive and modern, even though it is far from the American Silicon Valley.

Russia has more Silicon Valleys than valleys

One is Zelenograd built somewhere in the 60, then they've built Akademgorodok, then after the fall of the Soviet Union every single oblast had to have a Silicon Valley with the purpose of embezzling as much money from the government as possible.
So if we go by Russia today we have :
Vladivostok Silicon Valley on ice: Russia wants to turn Far East island into research hub
Crimea Russia to launch Crimean ‘Silicon Valley’ by 2020 lol at the year
and of course Tomsk, Novosibirsk, San Peterburg, and the above-mentioned Innopolis for example, every year they came up with another pipedream, just go to their propaganda news channel for a laugh. Which reminds me, Crimea was also supposed to be : ‘Russian Las Vegas’ to open in Crimea next year,

The only one that could actually look like that is indeed Skolkovo but their major problem is that they're heavily dependent on foreign companies, that's while Silicon Valley thrived, they could sell their stuff to all over the world, you can't do that from a sanctioned country.

Btw, Russia planned back in 2017 a bitcoin city, no need to point out what happened to it, right? 

[Wind_FURY]

If Russia starts mining Bitcoin, China will start mining Bitcoin again too, or did China truly “ban mining” within their country? The West have given warnings that they will ban Russia from using SWIFT, what does everyone believe Russia will do? They have made the narrative more obvious for a need of an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant, ledger/protocol for money.

And if the west doesn't want to deal with Russia?
You realize right now Russia would be just like a shop accepting Visa, Paypal, Monero, and Bitcoin, they can add used panties and discarded diapers as payment options if poeple DON'T want to deal with you they will not! Simple as this!

That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they? But the point is, if Russia and China are banned from using SWIFT, what can they do? The narrative for a censorship-resistant protocol for money, or a settlement layer has only become more obvious.

[ropyu1978]

It's good that Russia is recognizing bitcoin and its associated activities. Recently they have legalized bitcoin as a currency and now this incentive to allow mining at a cheaper cost. Overall this is positive for a strict communist government.

Usually Russian government doesn't have a lot of incomes except weapons sale. So if they are trying to open up in crypto world and create opportunities for them, that's definitely positive! But in Russia, don't trust a thing without seeing it in reality!

It's true as you said, we should not easily believe the statements of the Russian ministry before we see it in person, the Russian central bank banned bitcoin mining, I've also read several articles that the Russian government also banned bitcoin mining, but after Russia clashed with Ukraine now they are have issued a statement legalizing bitcoin mining in their country, maybe this has something to do with the Ukrainian state, because Ukraine has recently also proposed to legalize bitcoin in their country..

[aruldaroy]

It's good that Russia is recognizing bitcoin and its associated activities. Recently they have legalized bitcoin as a currency and now this incentive to allow mining at a cheaper cost. Overall this is positive for a strict communist government.

Usually Russian government doesn't have a lot of incomes except weapons sale. So if they are trying to open up in crypto world and create opportunities for them, that's definitely positive! But in Russia, don't trust a thing without seeing it in reality!

It's true as you said, we should not easily believe the statements of the Russian ministry before we see it in person, the Russian central bank banned bitcoin mining, I've also read several articles that the Russian government also banned bitcoin mining, but after Russia clashed with Ukraine now they are have issued a statement legalizing bitcoin mining in their country, maybe this has something to do with the Ukrainian state, because Ukraine has recently also proposed to legalize bitcoin in their country..

Actually the idea of ​​russia to map a number of special places in mining has existed before what ukraine is doing now, when the russian central bank banned crypto in the country, the russian ministry considered it a stupid act that would kill progress for its country, I think there is a current split between the russian central bank which rejects crypto and also the pro-crypto russian federal ministry, a few days ago the russian ministry proposed to develop mining in areas with a sustainable surplus in power generation, so that there is complete control over it happens to the electrical energy consumed and it will eliminate the risk of insufficient electricity supply for housing, social facilities and infrastructure in other parts of Russia.

[stompix]

That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they?

How much gas was Russia exporting to Europe before 2000?
Were we freezing to death each winter at that point? You know Yamal was fully functional in 2006, right?
Europe has the money to find alternatives, Russia doesn't have enough cloning chambers to create overnight 400 million poeple who would buy that gas from them.

But the point is, if Russia and China are banned from using SWIFT, what can they do? The narrative for a censorship-resistant protocol for money, or a settlement layer has only become more obvious.

The point is that if an alternative would be true that useful and it would bypass SWIFT North Korea would have used it to buy some damn tractors instead of still doing plowing with horses. But as you can see the alternative to SWIFT is not helping North Korea, is not helping Iran, and is not going to help Russia either.
Usually, when you think something is definitely effective and can be viewed as an alternative you have at least an example of it working like that but of course, you've got none.

As for censorship-resistant, haven't you learned anything from what happened in Canada?
A western company might try to deal with North Korea in Bitcoin but when the state finds that out it can shut it down and seize every single container or package, just like with the exchange to fiat, you don't just need a censorship-resistant currency you need censorship resistant companies, factories, trucks, and ships.
This is reality, and in this reality, things work differently than you imagine.

[zasad@]

That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they?

How much gas was Russia exporting to Europe before 2000?
Were we freezing to death each winter at that point? You know Yamal was fully functional in 2006, right?
Europe has the money to find alternatives, Russia doesn't have enough cloning chambers to create overnight 400 million poeple who would buy that gas from them.

I watched reports on Gazprom, and the company claims that it fulfills all contracts for gas supplies to Europe.
""American companies removed, in fact, a significant amount of gas from the European market and transported it first to Latin America and then to Asia," Putin stressed."
https://smotrim.ru/article/2628867
But it's cheaper to take gas in Russia.

[Wind_FURY]

That’s for another topic, and it is not as simple as “the West will stop dealing with Russia”. That’s laughable, Europe wants they’re heating during the winter, don’t they?

How much gas was Russia exporting to Europe before 2000?
Were we freezing to death each winter at that point? You know Yamal was fully functional in 2006, right?
Europe has the money to find alternatives, Russia doesn't have enough cloning chambers to create overnight 400 million poeple who would buy that gas from them.

I’m not sure, but how much natural gas the Russia export today? Plus would you truly believe for Russia to be so useless to Western Europe, that they will simply sanction them?

But the point is, if Russia and China are banned from using SWIFT, what can they do? The narrative for a censorship-resistant protocol for money, or a settlement layer has only become more obvious.

The point is that if an alternative would be true that useful and it would bypass SWIFT North Korea would have used it to buy some damn tractors instead of still doing plowing with horses. But as you can see the alternative to SWIFT is not helping North Korea, is not helping Iran, and is not going to help Russia either.

That’s another debate. North Korea, and Iran’s economic problems won’t be solved by Bitcoin. Wealth begets wealth, I am merely presenting a debate of Bitcoin as a protocol.

Usually, when you think something is definitely effective and can be viewed as an alternative you have at least an example of it working like that but of course, you've got none.

As a protocol/network, you don’t believe that Bitcoin is effective for censorship-resistance and regulatory circumvention? It has been proven through its ultility in the dark markets.

As for censorship-resistant, haven't you learned anything from what happened in Canada?

CoinJoins, and mixers will fix it ser.

A western company might try to deal with North Korea in Bitcoin but when the state finds that out it can shut it down and seize every single container or package, just like with the exchange to fiat, you don't just need a censorship-resistant currency you need censorship resistant companies, factories, trucks, and ships.
This is reality, and in this reality, things work differently than you imagine.

It won’t be the West who deals with North Korea, but whatever country it is, it can’t use SWIFT. But an alternative?

[Odusko]

Russian Bitcoin mining taxation if viewed from the positive perspective will allow for bitcoin adoption because there is no way the Russian government will collect taxes from an asset that is not legalized in its domain, secondly, I don't see anything wrong in regulating Bitcoin mining and regulating bitcoin mining does not equal regulation of the Bitcoin network. Note Bitcoin services can easily be regulated and taxed it bitcoin itself that is not possible for regulators to temper with it network.

[stompix]

I watched reports on Gazprom, and the company claims

A claim from Gazprom is worth less than one satoshi (on bitcoinsv).

I’m not sure, but how much natural gas the Russia export today?

If you're not sure about things why don't you check them before making claims and arguing with me?  

That’s another debate. North Korea, and Iran’s economic problems won’t be solved by Bitcoin. Wealth begets wealth, I am merely presenting a debate of Bitcoin as a protocol.

No, it's not another debate.
I've asked you why bitcoin can't help those countries get rid of all the sanctions for so many years.
Truth is that bitcoin is used simply as an alternative payment gateway to poeple who would really want to deal with them, and those people sealed with N Korea under sanctions even before bitcoin, their problem is the source and quantity.

Proof that doesn't work.

As a protocol/network, you don’t believe that Bitcoin is effective for censorship-resistance and regulatory circumvention? It has been proven through its ultility in the dark markets.

Seriously?
Are we really comparing a guy sending a parcel to a stranger, one in billion with a factory full of workers, with a lot of needs of equipment, raw materials, fuel that needs to send containers after containers, cook the books about who bought them and then ship under the radar thousands of gear part or motors or electronics?
You can sell a cookie to your neighbor for bitcoin and the state will never know, but try to send 10 000 of them to Pyongyang, see if it works, search for buyers on Alphabay. Oh wait..

It won’t be the West who deals with North Korea, but whatever country it is, it can’t use SWIFT. But an alternative?

You refuse to see the huge problem in front of you, finding a guy that would sell you something when we talk at country size level resources is a billion harder than sending a payment.

Bitcoin can be used exceptionally well for personal finances, personal payments, as you can Blend in with billions, the moment you try to use it for huge size deals you need the find a solution for the real life covering of all this, and this is something bitcoin can't do and it wasn't ever supposed to do.

[Haunebu]

I don't think this is a good idea since miners already have a lot on their plate and additional taxes would push their profits even lower which would force them to stop mining altogether in both the short-term and the long-term.

Russia is being fickle by banning crypto mining to trying to regulate them which is very similar to what some other countries(India, China etc) have done in recent times.

I feel that this is some sort of clever strategy being used by world governments for financial reasons.

[franky1]

a few days ago the russian ministry proposed to develop mining in areas with a sustainable surplus in power generation, so that there is complete control over it happens to the electrical energy consumed and it will eliminate the risk of insufficient electricity supply for housing, social facilities and infrastructure in other parts of Russia.

yep.
if they made a power plant that is 'future proof for residential expansion' EG current demand is 33% of the new power stations capacity to allow for 3x residential housing growth over X decades.
then for X decades they power plant is only working at 33% capacity or wasting excess capacity thats not consumed.. meaning its not getting 66% of potential income it could be capable of getting.

so for decades its missing out on alot of income.
because houses take too much time to build and then find residents that want to move into them. they cant just 3x the number of houses in 1 year. it would take decades to grow the population.

however if they offer that 66% excess to other industries then the power company can get more income faster and sooner, to then use that excess income for more upgrades in other regions. to then upgrade the country alot faster and sooner

off topic:
windfury has been hyping up his latest buzzword of the month "censorship-resistance" since he learned it from one of his pals talking about "bitcoin is great for donating to the freedom convoy" and "government cant get the coins, its impossible because bitcoin is censorship resistant.

he certainly loves sheep following buzzwords without understanding what they mean or how they apply to real life

problem is that the freedom convoy organisers were too publicly known and got slammed by a court order that they, anyone they know, anyone that knows them cant spend, move, distribute, pass, the known funds.
or any service that sees the known bitcoin funds being deposited into the service, has to freeze the account.

punishment being prison/massive fine if funds do move/those involved disobey the court order.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5386025.msg59293156#msg59293156
simple terms.. pay the court $20m and the order disappears. if the funds move. then those listed in the order have broken the court order, which means fines or prison time

shame he didnt do his research. because now the coins are left in limbo and the truckers are not getting paid as promised...!!

bitcoin is only as great as the pseudonymity the person holding the funds personally hides under.
if the fund holder goes public. expect law enforcement to court order the fund holder to stop doing things or go to prison/get fined.

censorship resistant. is not the same as what windfury tries to make it sound like EG "100% impossible for government to touch" nonsense
yes bitcoin is resistant, but not censorship-impossible

[zasad@]

I watched reports on Gazprom, and the company claims

A claim from Gazprom is worth less than one satoshi (on bitcoinsv).

I do not understand your negativity towards Gazprom. For example, Germany has entered into a long-term contract and buys gas at prices that are 5-10 times lower than the market price.
We are told stories about green energy, but all waste from production is taken to Third World countries. Gas is used not only for domestic purposes, but also in industry, and there is no alternative for the next 10 years.

[Smartprofit]

It's good that Russia is recognizing bitcoin and its associated activities. Recently they have legalized bitcoin as a currency and now this incentive to allow mining at a cheaper cost. Overall this is positive for a strict communist government.

Usually Russian government doesn't have a lot of incomes except weapons sale. So if they are trying to open up in crypto world and create opportunities for them, that's definitely positive! But in Russia, don't trust a thing without seeing it in reality!

It's true as you said, we should not easily believe the statements of the Russian ministry before we see it in person, the Russian central bank banned bitcoin mining, I've also read several articles that the Russian government also banned bitcoin mining, but after Russia clashed with Ukraine now they are have issued a statement legalizing bitcoin mining in their country, maybe this has something to do with the Ukrainian state, because Ukraine has recently also proposed to legalize bitcoin in their country..

No, this is not the reason...

Large corporations affiliated with law enforcement agencies are involved in Bitcoin mining in Russia.  For them it's just business, no politics.  For mining purposes, excess electricity power is used.  There are a lot of power plants in Russia.  

There are two influential groups in Russia.  

The first group is mining Bitcoin and controls the Ministry of Finance.  The second group lobbies for the digital ruble (CBDC) and controls the Central Bank of the Russian Federation.  

These groups have different financial interests and different ideas about the future fate of Bitcoin.

[Odusko]

The proposal aims to recognize crypto mining as a commercial activity and introduce taxes on its realized profits.

Yes, crypto mining can be recognized as a commercial activities and the issues of tax is also acceptable but what seems controversial is paying of task base on its realized profit which shouldn't, i also think of maybe channeling that to base on the power consumption and supply rate rather. I've red many articles talking about the financial challenges encountered by individual miners which could be challenging in deriving a financial means.

Russian government have been on the rise for taxation after there have established a target of about 13 billion dollars in Bitcoin taxation, looking at bitcoin mining for the realization of such tax period will definitely show up, but considering the many challenges for miners presently this tax will bring harsh business period for miners.

[darewaller]

It pleases me to see that the Russian government has changed their mind on banning Bitcoin, and have decided to legalize and regulate crypto transactions. That is far much better than placing a ban on it. Earlier this year, I have been seeing news that the Russian government (and the EU in general) were proposing a ban on Bitcoin and also cryptocurrency exchanges. But no one was really sure about it, whether it was going to happen or not.

But, even then there was news that cryptocurrency miners were moving to Russia as the Chinese government banned cryptocurrency entirely. But no one was really sure what would be the outcome. Finally now we know, and it is good.

[Wind_FURY]

I’m not sure, but how much natural gas the Russia export today?

If you're not sure about things why don't you check them before making claims and arguing with me?  

But do you truly know? Because you would know that most of European homes would be freezing if Russia shut the pipes.

That’s another debate. North Korea, and Iran’s economic problems won’t be solved by Bitcoin. Wealth begets wealth, I am merely presenting a debate of Bitcoin as a protocol.

No, it's not another debate.
I've asked you why bitcoin can't help those countries get rid of all the sanctions for so many years.
Truth is that bitcoin is used simply as an alternative payment gateway to poeple who would really want to deal with them, and those people sealed with N Korea under sanctions even before bitcoin, their problem is the source and quantity.

Proof that doesn't work.

But it does work. Bitcoin as a protocol can literally be used today to bypass SWIFT. If Russia and China implemented a platform using Bitcoin as the settlement layer to deal with Iran and North Korea, it would be censorship-resistant. You don’t believe Bitcoin is censorship-resistant?

As a protocol/network, you don’t believe that Bitcoin is effective for censorship-resistance and regulatory circumvention? It has been proven through its ultility in the dark markets.

Seriously?
Are we really comparing a guy sending a parcel to a stranger, one in billion with a factory full of workers, with a lot of needs of equipment, raw materials, fuel that needs to send containers after containers, cook the books about who bought them and then ship under the radar thousands of gear part or motors or electronics?
You can sell a cookie to your neighbor for bitcoin and the state will never know, but try to send 10 000 of them to Pyongyang, see if it works, search for buyers on Alphabay. Oh wait..

If Russia and China built a platform that uses Bitcoin as the settlement layer, and they traded with North Korea and Iran, to buy oil, or I don’t know, maybe nuclear warheads, how can transactions be censored?

It won’t be the West who deals with North Korea, but whatever country it is, it can’t use SWIFT. But an alternative?

You refuse to see the huge problem in front of you, finding a guy that would sell you something when we talk at country size level resources is a billion harder than sending a payment.

Bitcoin can be used exceptionally well for personal finances, personal payments, as you can Blend in with billions, the moment you try to use it for huge size deals you need the find a solution for the real life covering of all this, and this is something bitcoin can't do and it wasn't ever supposed to do.

It is my belief that Bitcoin’s underlying nature in geo-politics and its ability in weakening political strongholds has not been discovered yet. You might disagree, but in 20 years? Bitcoin is no mere protocol for personal finances.

[stompix]

I do not understand your negativity towards Gazprom. For example, Germany has entered into a long-term contract and buys gas at prices that are 5-10 times lower than the market price.

Because I trust numbers, not propaganda.
And do you have a quote for that 5-10 times? You know is bs, actually elephants' size.
Gas is now 3 times more expensive, if Germany would have a deal that it would make it 10 times cheaper compared to now it would mean it's 2.5 times lower than the gas Russia was selling to China before the crisis, so do you think Russia was screwing China with a 250% premium?  

You can't have those numbers and you know it pretty well.
Besides, how would Russia be able to offer such a discount when their gas was only -23% cheaper than LNG prior to this, so that's 1/3, nowhere near 5x.

Here, directly from a Russian official on tass:

"Is this the unfair competition? Definitely. This is unfair competition with improper means," the diplomat said. "In any case, even if the US has so much LNG that can be filled to the brim and have as many tankers as streetcars, the price will be at least 30% higher," the envoy stressed.

Now fill me in the difference from 30% to 1000%.

But do you truly know? Because you would know that most of European homes would be freezing if Russia shut the pipes.

Russian gas accounts for 30% of imports, not all that gas is used for heating homes, 20% of it is used in Germany to power gas plants, they could simply power coal powerplants instead.
If we exclude Russian gas down from 100% Europe would still have 70%, which is far above the 37% of total natural gas that is consumed by the residential sector and this gas burned for electricity for the residential sector..

So even without Russia Europe would have twice the gas to heat all homes if it switches consumption off from other activities.

But it does work. Bitcoin as a protocol can literally be used today to bypass SWIFT. If Russia and China implemented a platform using Bitcoin as the settlement layer to deal with Iran and North Korea, it would be censorship-resistant. You don’t believe Bitcoin is censorship-resistant?

I honestly think you have no idea what SWIFT is, no offense.
And again, the can thing, theoretically, everything could work for everything it just happens that it doesn't right now in the real world.
We had bitcoin for 13 years and rumors about it being used like that for 7 yet...no such proof of it working.
Directly from the Russia propaganda mouth piece:

Harirchi said “five million doses of purchased flu vaccine have been blocked at an airport due to the sanctions against Iran and they cannot be cleared and exported to the country.”

Do you see? It doesn't work even if you managed to pay for it!

If

If I were Satoshi...

It is my belief that Bitcoin’s underlying nature in geo-politics and its ability in weakening political strongholds has not been discovered yet.

Everyone is allowed to believe whatever he wants, you believe one thing, I tell you reality is different and this is what I believe.

[Markinzo]

I hope this is not another bipolar tussle? Be that as it may, hope there's no future hidden intent behind their decision of legalizing Bitcoin mining in its ministry? Only time will tell!

[Argoo]

If I understand correctly, mining is not currently banned in Russia, so it is not clear what exactly they want to legalise? It seems that the government wants to make private small farms stay in the shadows, it will be beneficial for the big miners, which are likely to be owned by those close to the government.

In Russia, there is still a dispute between the position of the Central Bank, which wants to completely ban the mining of cryptocurrency and its circulation in the country, and the Ministry of Finance, where they want to legalize and regulate cryptocurrency, and legalize it as a means of payment, which is not yet in Russia.
I don’t know if they will pay attention to cryptocurrency in the near future, since Putin today recognized part of the occupied territory of Ukraine as two independent republics and, through a cooperation agreement with them, will officially send troops. The world is really on the verge of a third world war, and Russia as a state may soon disappear.

[Wind_FURY]

But do you truly know? Because you would know that most of European homes would be freezing if Russia shut the pipes.

Russian gas accounts for 30% of imports, not all that gas is used for heating homes, 20% of it is used in Germany to power gas plants, they could simply power coal powerplants instead.
If we exclude Russian gas down from 100% Europe would still have 70%, which is far above the 37% of total natural gas that is consumed by the residential sector and this gas burned for electricity for the residential sector..

So even without Russia Europe would have twice the gas to heat all homes if it switches consumption off from other activities.

You say that as if it was so easy. It won’t be easy, especially for the Europeans that have started shutting down Nuclear Power.

But it does work. Bitcoin as a protocol can literally be used today to bypass SWIFT. If Russia and China implemented a platform using Bitcoin as the settlement layer to deal with Iran and North Korea, it would be censorship-resistant. You don’t believe Bitcoin is censorship-resistant?

I honestly think you have no idea what SWIFT is, no offense.
And again, the can thing, theoretically, everything could work for everything it just happens that it doesn't right now in the real world.

Ad Hominem. None of what you said addressed the debate.

We had bitcoin for 13 years and rumors about it being used like that for 7 yet...no such proof of it working.
Directly from the Russia propaganda mouth piece:

Harirchi said “five million doses of purchased flu vaccine have been blocked at an airport due to the sanctions against Iran and they cannot be cleared and exported to the country.”

Do you see? It doesn't work even if you managed to pay for it!

That’s not the point, the same thing would happen through any protocol of settlement.

If

If I were Satoshi...

That doesn’t address the debate again.

It is my belief that Bitcoin’s underlying nature in geo-politics and its ability in weakening political strongholds has not been discovered yet.

Everyone is allowed to believe whatever he wants, you believe one thing, I tell you reality is different and this is what I believe.

OK.

[franky1]

i know a couple people above are pealing away from russia wanting mining.. to talk about the whole russia/ukraine politics of war and us sanctions.. so lets just guide them to some things they should look into to correct themselves

russia and china are already getting their 'cross-border' CBDC connected. so that russia is not reliant on the US payment system or the IMF to offer russia any 'credit/loan facility.

so russia wont be tethered to the whims of 'us sanctions' as much as the US would like.

yes the US could cut off russia's access to the IMF but russia wont care, if they need funding they can just ask china for some reserve tokens from the cross border CBDC system

some might want to read this
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/russia-and-china-partners-in-dedollarization/
it shows how russia is less caring about swift and the IMF now,  than it was in 2013

and if interested in the cross border CBDC.. look into the BIS doing the m-bridge
https://www.bis.org/publ/othp40.htm

[stompix]

~
That doesn’t address the debate again.
~

I love that rather you sneakily avoided commenting exactly the most important thing.
A real case event where a country under sanctions, despite managing to secure a shipment and paying for it hasn't been able to have that shifted to them.
So again, I'm asking you, how is bitcoin or any other type of parallel payment going to bypass a situation like the one I've pointed out before?

This is exactly the debate here, bitcoin helps in bypassing sanctions, look, we have merchandise that was ordered paid and stopped from being delivered, and the country that ordered it got nothing and lost the money also, how will bitcoin act differently? How will bitcoin make a difference?
What is so hard to understand is that if the police come to my parent's business and tell us if we export one single truck of meat to Russia we're going to get arrested we won't give a damn about what you pay us? You can ask the tooth fairy to sneak in during the night and put gold bars under our pillow to make it totally undetectable, but we can't make a truck invisible while crossing the border, get some alien to drive it, and at the same time cook the books as nothing happened, not without our own workers realizing something really fishy is going on.

Bitcoin or monero or any other coin or any other means of payment were not built for this, it was never their purpose, they exist in the digital world, goods need to be transported in the real one. I understand your enthusiasm but you need to a reality check.

[Wind_FURY]

~
That doesn’t address the debate again.
~

I love that rather you sneakily avoided commenting exactly the most important thing.
A real case event where a country under sanctions, despite managing to secure a shipment and paying for it hasn't been able to have that shifted to them.
So again, I'm asking you, how is bitcoin or any other type of parallel payment going to bypass a situation like the one I've pointed out before?

But that wasn’t the point. The point was being sanctioned from using SWIFT, and using Bitcoin as a protocol, and as a settlement layer.

If the payment was made in Bitcoin, and the delivery of the item was blocked, you believe that Bitcoin didn’t work?

What if Russia was sanctioned, and used Bitcoin as the settlement layer for trading military weapons with China and all the items arrived?

This is exactly the debate here, bitcoin helps in bypassing sanctions, look, we have merchandise that was ordered paid and stopped from being delivered, and the country that ordered it got nothing and lost the money also, how will bitcoin act differently? How will bitcoin make a difference?
What is so hard to understand is that if the police come to my parent's business and tell us if we export one single truck of meat to Russia we're going to get arrested we won't give a damn about what you pay us? You can ask the tooth fairy to sneak in during the night and put gold bars under our pillow to make it totally undetectable, but we can't make a truck invisible while crossing the border, get some alien to drive it, and at the same time cook the books as nothing happened, not without our own workers realizing something really fishy is going on.

Bitcoin or monero or any other coin or any other means of payment were not built for this, it was never their purpose, they exist in the digital world, goods need to be transported in the real one. I understand your enthusiasm but you need to a reality check.

That’s a straw man ser.

[maria1110]

Russian is so well known for its mining industry. As far as I know, mining is not banned in Russia, since people are still engaging in mining activities.
Anyway, put it on the legal lever may be beneficial for those big miners, expecially those close to the government.

[Ozero]

I don't think this is a good idea since miners already have a lot on their plate and additional taxes would push their profits even lower which would force them to stop mining altogether in both the short-term and the long-term.

Russia is being fickle by banning crypto mining to trying to regulate them which is very similar to what some other countries(India, China etc) have done in recent times.

I feel that this is some sort of clever strategy being used by world governments for financial reasons.

I am primarily interested in why Russia is going to allow bitcoin mining only in certain regions? Is it due to people or lack of energy in certain regions?
In any case, there is nothing surprising in establishing taxes on profits for cryptocurrency mining, and this is quite logical and natural. In addition, the consequences of the latest tough international sanctions will soon appear in Russia in connection with Russia's recognition of two independent republics on the territory of the occupied regions of Ukraine and the official introduction of its troops there. This is open aggression and therefore the civilized world will no longer reckon with its economic losses from the imposition of its own sanctions. But it could be a disaster for Russia.

[stompix]

But that wasn’t the point. The point was being sanctioned from using SWIFT, and using Bitcoin as a protocol, and as a settlement layer.
If the payment was made in Bitcoin, and the delivery of the item was blocked, you believe that Bitcoin didn’t work?

That's why I told you you don't have a clue what SWIFT is.
Russia did trade with Europe during the USSR and Warsaw Pact, they weren't in SWIFT, no Russian banks were, no Warsaw pact banks were in it yet trade still was done, by simply guess what, sending payments. But while payments were happening, USSR or the West could decide those items are not really for sale and stop the trucks at the border afraid of smuggling or spying, and did this means that the bank transfer failed? Not at all.
You can send payments with any method you want as long as the deal can't be reached it means you have failed!

Again, kicking Russia out of SWIFT doesn't mean you can't send a payment to a Russian bank!
Imposing a full-out ban on commerce with it means that no fucking payment solution will get you that stuff sold and bought.

So again, you're looking at bitcoin as a solution for the wrong non-existent problem.
Second, you're bringing unnecessary political problems to the network, Foundry is hovering between 15-20% of the hashrate, the so-called BMC members have about 60EXahash on orders, guess what will happen if Russia would turn Bitcoin into its tool for avoiding US sanctions?

That’s a straw man ser.

That's reality. How many contracts of Extra-Union trade have you signed and overseen?

[Wind_FURY]

But that wasn’t the point. The point was being sanctioned from using SWIFT, and using Bitcoin as a protocol, and as a settlement layer.
If the payment was made in Bitcoin, and the delivery of the item was blocked, you believe that Bitcoin didn’t work?

That's why I told you you don't have a clue what SWIFT is.

Ad hominem and literally laughable.

Russia did trade with Europe during the USSR and Warsaw Pact, they weren't in SWIFT, no Russian banks were, no Warsaw pact banks were in it yet trade still was done, by simply guess what, sending payments. But while payments were happening, USSR or the West could decide those items are not really for sale and stop the trucks at the border afraid of smuggling or spying, and did this means that the bank transfer failed? Not at all.
You can send payments with any method you want as long as the deal can't be reached it means you have failed!

Again, kicking Russia out of SWIFT doesn't mean you can't send a payment to a Russian bank!
Imposing a full-out ban on commerce with it means that no fucking payment solution will get you that stuff sold and bought.

So again, you're looking at bitcoin as a solution for the wrong non-existent problem.
Second, you're bringing unnecessary political problems to the network, Foundry is hovering between 15-20% of the hashrate, the so-called BMC members have about 60EXahash on orders, guess what will happen if Russia would turn Bitcoin into its tool for avoiding US sanctions?

You’re still using a straw man ser, none of your post disproves that Bitcoin as a protocol can’t be implemented and used as an alternative for international transfers for value. It can solve the friction caused from being banned from SWIFT, and it’s a trustless, censorship-resistant system for settlement.

That’s a straw man ser.

That's reality. How many contracts of Extra-Union trade have you signed and overseen?

Does that disprove that that’s a straw man?

[zasad@]

Russian is so well known for its mining industry. As far as I know, mining is not banned in Russia, since people are still engaging in mining activities.
Anyway, put it on the legal lever may be beneficial for those big miners, expecially those close to the government.

If you are close to the leadership of the region, then you will be mining in protected areas where checks will never come.
Look at the situation in Kazakhstan. First, mining was legalized there, and then taxes were increased by almost 10 times. My opinion is that the current situation suits everyone and there are many other problems, so the government is in no hurry to pass the law.

[stompix]

~

Oh just grow up and stop babbling straw man, straw man like you're Straw Hat Luffy.
Again, if you have a clue about something you would prove it to me, not just crying like a little girl you're getting attacked on a forum.

I told you clearly and showed you cases
- were sanctioned country couldn't get goods even if they managed to pay for
- where countries used to trade even without SWIFT
I asked you why since we had bitcoin for years no country is using it on a large scale to avoid sanctions?
Why would they use bitcoin when they could use their own centralized coin, have thousands of nodes spread in every institution for security and that's it, why bother with something that is fluctuating on the markets when they just need a thing that basically just sends messages?

But no, you're spouting the same visionary unicorn on-sense, and every time you feel pressured by your obvious lack of knowledge and you can't make a decent answer you cry you're being abused. If you can't handle a discussion on argument then simply go to sleep and plan your futurist economy alone in your dreams.

[kawetsriyanto]

As long as the news will not change again because of the current conflicts, or because of something else. We know how this country commonly makes any statement about crypto world related. there are commonly some surprises after several times later.
But, if this rule is exactly implemented, at least, it gives better conditions for the miners. Moreover if the regulation really states about the legalization of crypto in the country, it may give a big impact on the crypto world.
But, I personally will not expect much, moroever they are in conflict right now.

Or how is this done in countries like US, is Bitcoin mining taxed?

Maybe 
There must be a way to government to get any taxes 

[tbct_mt2]

Russia is a big nation but Bitcoin has a decentralized network so legalization in Russia or not, it won't change Bitcoin network entirely, at least in terms of decentralization.

China ban, crack down Bitcoin. How many times do we get such news or actions from China? How about Bitcoin after all? It is still be here and its network has become bigger, healthier, more secured over time.

Let's Putin and Russia government do what they want but they can not do anything to stop Bitcoin network. That nation can not live and operate by shutdown their gates with other nations. They just like China, North Korea, Cuba and see how many nations on Earth are still following Communism.

[aruldaroy]

As long as the news will not change again because of the current conflicts, or because of something else. We know how this country commonly makes any statement about crypto world related. there are commonly some surprises after several times later.
But, if this rule is exactly implemented, at least, it gives better conditions for the miners. Moreover if the regulation really states about the legalization of crypto in the country, it may give a big impact on the crypto world.
But, I personally will not expect much, moroever they are in conflict right now.

Or how is this done in countries like US, is Bitcoin mining taxed?

Maybe 
There must be a way to government to get any taxes 

I don't think they can charge taxes in the US because the US government itself has never legalized bitcoin for legal currency or legal payments.
Even the government may not know if someone is mining bitcoin in their country unless there is news that there is bitcoin mining in the US in an open way, the government will take action but not for taxes maybe.

[Wind_FURY]

~

Oh just grow up and stop babbling straw man, straw man like you're Straw Hat Luffy.
Again, if you have a clue about something you would prove it to me, not just crying like a little girl you're getting attacked on a forum.

I told you clearly and showed you cases
- were sanctioned country couldn't get goods even if they managed to pay for
- where countries used to trade even without SWIFT
I asked you why since we had bitcoin for years no country is using it on a large scale to avoid sanctions?
Why would they use bitcoin when they could use their own centralized coin, have thousands of nodes spread in every institution for security and that's it, why bother with something that is fluctuating on the markets when they just need a thing that basically just sends messages?

What cases? None of your “cases” disprove the fact that Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, and that it can be used as an alternative to legacy banking systems to go around sanctions for sending value and as a settlement layer.

But no, you're spouting the same visionary unicorn on-sense, and every time you feel pressured by your obvious lack of knowledge and you can't make a decent answer you cry you're being abused. If you can't handle a discussion on argument then simply go to sleep and plan your futurist economy alone in your dreams.

“Visionary unicorn”? The protocol is there in front of you. How longer must the network run for people to understand and accept it? But it’s understandable, everyone didn’t understand air travel when the Wright Brothers invented the first motor-operated airplane.

[Tellek Garing]

Russian is so well known for its mining industry. As far as I know, mining is not banned in Russia, since people are still engaging in mining activities.
Anyway, put it on the legal lever may be beneficial for those big miners, expecially those close to the government.

Well Rusian contribute about 11.2% to Bitcoin's hash rate and mining in Russia have not been affected entirely but about 2 mining company have close down operation so far and have stated that the shutdown is connected to Russian Ukraine invasion. This situation may change as things progress bit to which direction I can't tell let keep observing to see how the whole situation unfold.
Rusian Bitcoin miner present condition

[stompix]

~

Oh just grow

Posts meme

If that is the level you usually discuss things on this forum then I think there is no option for my left that put you on ignore so not to waste my time anymore with silly kids.

What cases? None of your “cases” disprove the fact that Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, and that it can be used as an alternative to legacy banking systems to go around sanctions for sending value and as a settlement layer.

This case kiddo:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/26/france-seizes-suspected-russian-owned-ship-in-channel

Understand it?
Your censorship-resistant payment systems means nothing when the poeple who are censoring you can seize the goods you need in real life.
Until you find a way to convert semiconductors, machinery, medicine into NFTs then send them via the blockchain, and then somehow turn them into real-world parts your whole censorship-resistant protocol is on par with all other miraculous vaporware solutions that won't solve a thing!!!!

[Wind_FURY]

~

Oh just grow

Posts meme

If that is the level you usually discuss things on this forum then I think there is no option for my left that put you on ignore so not to waste my time anymore with silly kids.

What cases? None of your “cases” disprove the fact that Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, and that it can be used as an alternative to legacy banking systems to go around sanctions for sending value and as a settlement layer.

This case kiddo:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/26/france-seizes-suspected-russian-owned-ship-in-channel

Understand it?
Your censorship-resistant payment systems means nothing when the poeple who are censoring you can seize the goods you need in real life.
Until you find a way to convert semiconductors, machinery, medicine into NFTs then send them via the blockchain, and then somehow turn them into real-world parts your whole censorship-resistant protocol is on par with all other miraculous vaporware solutions that won't solve a thing!!!!

Ser, read what you just posted again, and tell me where Bitcoin was censored, as a protocol, as a network, or as a cryptocurrency. Understand it?

[zasad@]

Well, that would be great for Russian people, but I honestly don't understand why they banned mining back then. Man, sometimes I feel sorry for Russian citizens. I mean, they live in a totalitarian state and the president, together with his friend, controls everything! I mean, it's ok to control your country, but not like that. Sometimes they just kill people who disagree with them.

No need to draw conclusions about Russia from the news. Mining is not prohibited, there are no taxes, because there is no mining tax law. Criminal cases and confiscations of asics only where miners steal electricity.
If you want to say that in Russia “everything that is not ordered is prohibited”, then this is another incorrect information.