Venezuela situation and Bitcoin mining.

[Thryskiller]

Solved ty^^

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[franky1]

its not the political situation nor the crime/media stuff that stops people wanting to mine in venezuela.

its the simple matter that even google says
Venezuela electricity prices   
                                    Household, kWh    Business, kWh
Venezuelan Bolivar         1.093                   1.283
U.S. Dollar                     0.273                   0.321

using basic math at a 190exahash network. it costs $72,451.69 to mine 1btc at that household rate of electricity listed by google

where as people can simply buy bitcoin anywhere.. CHEAPER(~$40k now). so why want to set up an mining farm at a higher cost($72.5k) rather than just buying($40k)

if you have a way to get electric for 0.2 Bolivar($0.05) then you are making good value bitcoin from mining. lucky you
if your electric is higher then 0.2Bolivar. then your wont break even.
if venezuela had a $0.05(0.2Bolivar) or less electric rate. then it would be a consideration and value to mine there.

however venezuela is a 'balmy' climate of temperatures of 26^oc-28^oc meaning HEAT. and asics do not like heat. they need to be cooled.

many other countries have cooler climates which again means less energy needed to cool the asics. so people would consider those cooler climate locations first

..
that said. . google results has more influence of its "electric price" results for reasons to not mine in Venezuela, rather than google news influence of "social/political" for reasons to not mine in Venezuela
that said, im guessing there are area's in Venezuela that have way cheaper prices and cooler climates

[DapanasFruit]

I read a news months ago of some parts in Venezuela having problem on the supply of power so there was frequent brownouts then...has this problem been fixed or your location has no problem on supply? Now, having said that, what about the policy of the government on Bitcoin mining? This is so important because if the government will imposed a ban or severe restrictions then things can be put to a stop. On this aspect alone, if I am an investor then I would probably explore more opportunities in El Salvador which is now promoting its Bitcoin City concept to attract businesses related to cryptocurrency. I hope that the Venezuela government can take advantage of this opportunity by maybe establishing a special economic zone focusing on high-tech and crypto-aligned business activities.

[franky1]

That Google information is wrong, nothing new. Last time I checked the business prices from a Corpoelec employee, it was something between 0.016$ and 0.019$ per kWh, not long ago. And 4 or 6 month ago I had the luck to visit and talk with the owner of a Bitcoin farm here who told me kVa price was less than 2$, maybe he just bullshitted me, but yeah, I can verify those prices again for u and give you a real price if you want.
Btw, this month I paid 6.25$ on apartment electricity bills.

Thanks for replying

point mainly is that miners googling for reasons to or not to try venezuela, are not googling social politics. there is not much googling and worrying about crime rates or murder stats.
they are looking at the area's temperature and costs. and simply finding places like iceland and ukraine showing better google results.

point is dont worry about trying to convince people about crime rates. try convincing them of area's of a cool climate and cheap electric prices after all taxes and any fee's, levies, duties are catered for

[franky1]

try and gather up some info about venezuela.
EG looking at the 2019 blackout image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Venezuelan_blackouts#/media/File:Comparative_Blackout_in_Venezuela_March_2019.jpg
it looks like el tigre and maturin region stayed alight.

look into details such as what cities are along the rivers/reservoirs that do hydro energy generation.(constant generation without fossil fuel)
find out how often the reservoirs or rivers "dry up"(if ever) to cause power issuance problems and which cities are affected most(if any)

rate each city based on its electric reliance and also the sustainability mix (mainly renewables)
also look at the local power costs of these cities/area's and rate that too..
and of those cities also get climate/weather info of the coolest of those cities and rate that

even if its a simple pick 5 cities. and give each a rating out of 5 lowest to highest for each category
and then see which one earns most 'points'
probably worth for the electric cost and weather factors. rate them out of 10
EG if electric prices are $0.027 to $0.27 and best price in best city is 0.027 then give that 10, 0.135=5, 0.27=1
EG if weather range is 75^oF to 85^oF for the cities. then 75=10 and 85=1

weather and electric prices are most important rating so worth rating out of 10 instead of 5

dont worry about rating things like crime statistics or number of protests/revolts.. as thats not important
maybe another thing to consider rating is the cost of living differences per region. where by the cheapest location gets most points
and also maybe a standard of living (places with big brand stores and all the conveniences vs places that are "food deserts"

and try to determine a 'best place' for asic miners to set up in.

then you will know the zone/area of venezuela that could have the potential of becoming a "bitcoin city"

[Poker Player]

-snip

Let's see, what are you? A CM of Maduro by the looks of it.

Venezuela is today a garbage as a result of the disastrous policies of first Chavez and then Maduro, which have turned it into one of the most insecure countries in the world, with an exodus of millions of Venezuelans to escape hunger and violence. All communist regimes (even those that don't want to call themselves that, as in your country) end up the same way. With hunger, political repression and deaths everywhere.

No way I'm going to mine Bitcoin in Venezuela, no matter how much your boss Maduro would like to steal from me.

[franky1]

-snip

Let's see, what are you? A CM of Maduro by the looks of it.

Venezuela is today a garbage as a result of the disastrous policies of first Chavez and then Maduro, which have turned it into one of the most insecure countries in the world, with an exodus of millions of Venezuelans to escape hunger and violence. All communist regimes (even those that don't want to call themselves that, as in your country) end up the same way. With hunger, political repression and deaths everywhere.

No way I'm going to mine Bitcoin in Venezuela, no matter how much your boss Maduro would like to steal from me.

every country has its bad zones. but sometimes. those bad area's can be seen as an opportunity.
EG NY 'projects' the area no one wanted to live due to gangland stuff.. then re gentrification occurred, and now those that bought property cheap there are now seen as a higher class level than the previous residents.

the whole idea of el salvador, russia, ukraine all wanting to set up economic zones specific to bitcoin. is to raise the previously poor standard of living up

heck even in america..
take the map of power plants. and look at the blue blobs.(hydro power)
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/plant-capacity-by-megawatt.jpg
then.. take the map of 'ghost towns'
https://www.geotab.com/ghost-towns/

and think of the potential to re-birth those towns REALLY CHEAP

[stompix]

I'm from Venezuela,

try and gather up some info about venezuela.

Don't you love it when franky 1 who has no clue about mining doesn't stop giving his good-for-nothing advice but tells a guy from Venezuela to gather information on google about his own country? The guy has talked with a guy working there for an electricity company about the price yet no, for franky1 that info must be wrong because google says something else.

OP, post what you've had for dessert, I'm pretty sure franky will tell us google says you've had ice cream not muffins.  

Now @Thryskiller, you want the discussion to be about poeple coming in from abroad to mine in Venezuela or poeple who already mine in Venezuela to share their experience, or both because if it's the first you will need to be the one providing some info. on why would poeple move there, and the cheap electricity thingy is nothing without numbers.

Btw, you have a fellow miner and a quite active one, he also has a telegram group but based on his messages he's not painting the same pretty picture about the tolerant and friendly for the business government as you do.

LE:
Fixed franky's dessert, you're such a sweetie  

[franky1]

to: Thryskiller
alot of people think they are going to get kidnapped in UAE, ukraine and russia. so, its not really much different. especially with the news in the last 3 months of the russia/ukraine stuff being deemed as a potential WW3 war zone, but people are still setting up mining there. so the social/politics are not that important





to: stompix, you are a big troll here.
grow up

also a food desert is not a sweat snack after a main meal (dessert)
a food desert is an area where there is no local grocery store within X miles to buy fruit and veg. places that are food deserts are a sign of bad standard of living. some may see that as a potential to create growth or to find cheap labour. some may see it as a city to not move to.

you have no clue about alot of things. so instead of trolling. spend your time learning and expanding your knowledge.

as for your knowledge of mining. you prefer websites that use "assumptions""guestimates" that the power use of bitcoin was upto 200TWH last year. so your sources are bad. (but that day was funny when you linked their explainer page that mentioned guess, assume and estimate dozens of times, with you pretending that the explainer made them credible)

in this topic i used google as a quick example of the first thing other people read.. meaning its not the social politics news they turn to google for their initial arbitrary search.

the separate post. i then said to someone living in venezuela for him to gather info as he is more knowing of the area, because he lives there.  i didnt tell him to just google based on some northern hemisphere propaganda crapsite.

a guy living in venexuela could easily get local information from proper sources more effectively

stompix
go troll someone else. your boring

[Poker Player]

Damn brother, u good? Jumping and calling me a Maduro's CM right away just because I wanted to know others people opinion about my country. Go outside and touch some grass, all your posts are like this, looking to create discussion around politics and stupid shit. U don't want to to do business here, good for you, no one wants to steal nothing from you.

Of course I am good.

And don't worry, I usually go out a lot because where I live there is much more peace and tranquility than in Venezuela, no matter how much those of you who are part of the regime try to fool people by telling them how good life is there.

Only a madman would go mining in Venezuela today.

[tranthidung]

Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer electronic cash and it has a decentralized network from hashrate ownership to geo-locations of mining farms. I am sure that Venezuela or any single nation won't bring any ending for Bitcoin network.

In addition and more important, the Bitcoin adoption has a best rate in history of human society. The best ever I mean, even much better than the Internet. Do you see how the Internet has changed the world entirely? Bitcoin has already changed the world and will be able to do more than that.

Bitcoin mining map shows that Bitcoin mining has spread over the globe, not in a single nation.

[pooya87]

I'm from Venezuela, the last two years I got interested about mining so I started reading a lot of stuff related to my country and the business model around Bitcoin mining, opinions from different people, inside and outside the country, most of it leaving really horrible impressions.

Part of it is the propaganda by the carrot countries that has brainwashed people into thinking this way (that's actually part of that dangling carrot strategy).
But also part of it is because of very real problems that your country has been facing, from sanctions to corruption and economic hardship. I recall you guys had a lot of energy and fuel crisis, although there were a lot of cooperation with shitton of fuel and technology coming from our side of the world trying to fix the issue. Don't know if it is fixed since I didn't follow up on the news from 2-3 years ago.


I'm curious why you are looking for foreign investor instead of looking for domestic ones? That would be a lot better since it won't be someone else who takes the money out of the country that may also raise some red flags with the government and attract high taxes.
I know some people started very small many years ago (I saw on Reddit) and they built their operation little by little until reached a decent amount of hashrate. They were also doing other stuff to maximize their profit like importing goods (cheaper) using bitcoin and selling it locally for additional profit while helping the economy at the same time.

[SFR10]

Also, bitcoin mining is not allowed everywhere, sunacrip is actually allowing farms in states that are not hard affected by this kind of problem or where farms can cause shortage problems, charge is getting distributed.
~Snipped~
You are not going to have any kind of problem with your farm, you just need to do it legal.

So basically that means mining operations are in a grey area in there... IIRC, there was an incident in one of its states ^{[forgot which state it was, but I think it happened last year]} and they did cut the power supply of those who actually had licenses!
Another issue that might be bothering potential miners to relocate is probably the license itself ^{[supcacven vs sunacrip]}... It happened before, so it could happen again and that's a huge risk for miners if they suddenly have to halt their operation before they kick-start it.

[DdmrDdmr]

Whenever the topic of bitcoin mining has been brought-up on the Spanish Local board, I don’t recall there ever being an overwhelming positive sentiment on the perspective, from the point of view of those local to the country.

There’s a largely held perception that there is a lot of corruption in the country, and (some) miners are subject to extortion from the police forces, potentially at any point in time. That, I figure, sets an atmosphere of discomfort and distrust, which one would understandably envision as not being the best of scenarios for doing business there, besides the overall situation within the country.

[romero121]

You are a citizen of Venezuela and living in that same country since you have an interest in bitcoin mining you ought to know the general law surrounding cryptocurrency and how the governments taking a stand in enforcing its law on businesses most especially cryptocurrency-related business and what is the electricity supply and how are the charges.

Bitcoin is legal within Venezuela, and it is one among the country that have got massive bitcoin users. At present Venezuela suffers economic crisis and unemployment. For now bitcoin mining gives them way to earn due to the low electricity cost of 0.06 cents per kWh. As in one of the quote, governments are highly corrupt and the police officials loot from the public. Often there comes seize of mining machines, but that happens as a result of illegal running without proper business proposal. Apart people are getting used to save on bitcoin and spend their value less Bolivar.

[SFR10]

I think I know the case you talking about, this one: https://www.[Suspicious link removed] and yes, police disconnected the farm from the high voltage without having a warrant or a sunacrip's representative, since they can't to anything without a sunacrip's representative. Farm owners contacted sunacrip and the farm was connected s couple ours ago, because there was nothing wrong and they had the permissions, but yeah, it still happens.

Unfortunately, I can't see the link since it was deleted but based on your explanation, I believe that was the case I was referring to.

About the sunacrip/supcacven is something that can happen and no one can predict it.

That's true and something similar might also happen in other countries, but I think the main issue is the amount of time it took them to provide licenses again ^{[I couldn't find the exact date that they took over, but based on a few signs, I believe it was in February of 2019, so unlicensed/unregistered miners in Venezuela had to wait for roughly one and a half years before they could obtain a license]}.

• Such inconsistencies are a big concern ^{[especially if we're talking about large-scale miners]}... Imagine getting all of the necessary permits to "fully" set up your operation ^{[depending on its type, it could take weeks/months for each of those permits]}, then suddenly you hit a roadblock at the very last step of getting the license ^{[assuming that the process of obtaining a license is similar to where I'm currently residing]}.
  ^{- Every single day they switch off those mining rigs, they'd be losing a lot.}

[LUCKMCFLY]

The situation of Venezuela against crypto mining is really simple, one thing must be understood, mining is being carried out by the Venezuelan government, it is obvious because the low electricity rates allow it and more in Caracas (The Capital) that the electricity as they do in the interior of the country, so since they want to control all this activity they invented SUNACRIP to control it, and those who do not register there will be considered illegal, and they have all the power for those miners who carry out and capture them without being registered imprison them.

[sunsilk]

Can't blame those people that have been thinking the negative things that they've probably watched or read about Venezuela.

I've watched some YT videos about bitcoin and mining in Venezuela. The people that have been interviewed said that it's dangerous when the government knows that you're into mining. The authorities are likely to confiscate your rig if you don't pay for their bribe once they knock your door or basement.

That could be one reason as to why those people think of what those negative factors that you've mentioned. Also, the economy, the hyperinflation that's happening there could also be a reason and it's not a secret.

[stepwilli]

Bitcoin is legal within Venezuela, and it is one among the country that have got massive bitcoin users. At present Venezuela suffers economic crisis and unemployment. For now bitcoin mining gives them way to earn due to the low electricity cost of 0.06 cents per kWh. As in one of the quote, governments are highly corrupt and the police officials loot from the public. Often there comes seize of mining machines, but that happens as a result of illegal running without proper business proposal. Apart people are getting used to save on bitcoin and spend their value less Bolivar.

What did they did there of legalizing btc is a good decision since the country is already suffering from an economic crisis, btc can help the country to recover again. I heard that the fiat in this country is almost useless but with the aid of btc, people can now have their purchasing power back.

For those people that are unemployed, they can get involved in the mining activities to earn extra income since electricity is not really a big concern in this country, they will only worry if where they will get the capital to buy a mining equipment but I'm also worried what if they charge too much fees or tax on the poor miners as it's said that they have a corrupt authorities.