Fluent with multiple languages, can i join multiple local boards?

[big_daddy]

~

you've probably checked at some recent merit history, I'm not that active the last 2 years as a was before, but I would like to add my profile to the Italian local board as well, as a native speaker, not the Croatian only

[1715278104]

1715278104

[1715278104]

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[Rikafip]

From your perspective is it encouraging for someone to pertake in two different local boards ?

Yeah why not, as long as you can use that language at the reasonable level.

because it's has the ability of multilingual language, if we accept such act, it will give room to others and especially offsprings of this community will be using translator to engage into conversation with other local boards.

If we accept? Its' already accepted, there is no such rule against being active in other local boards.

This clearly states that you are not allowed to use any automated tools to post on local board. By the way, automated translator is dangerous as it can totally change the meaning of a sentence.

I don't think that rule is strictly enforced when it comes to occasional post in another local board (or maybe people just don't report them as often).  I personally did it several times and probably some of the others than can be found in that list DdmrDdmr shared. My guess is that rule is aimed more at those who use automatic tool to translate various announcements and then spam them across other local boards.

[wwzsocki]

This clearly states that you are not allowed to use any automated tools to post on local board. By the way, automated translator is dangerous as it can totally change the meaning of a sentence.

sure I get your point but you need to take into consideration my hall statement, of course, you can't translate content using google translator and then post it like native human translation (your own) but there are situations like when I was looking for help with Chinese, Hindi marketing or translations and needed to post there on their local forum to find candidates for this jobs.

Of course I used google translator for that but did it carefully, not only translated from my native Polish to Chinese back and forth to check it but then again the same with English - Chinese just to be sure. I think if you put so much effort and use google translator to communicate then this is not against rules and if then it should be changed.

[DdmrDdmr]

I just remember an interesting thread related to this topic from a few months back: Actions against spam translators. Although the referenced topic has a clear context, narrower than the one being dealt with here, some of the discussion there applies here.

Since Google translations are being mentioned here in this thread, and the related rule against automated translations, I still have my doubts on its exact interpretation, and even more so as time goes by and the tools improve in their results (as of late, when referencing sources in Spanish on English boards on the matter of latam new, I tend to include the link to the Google Translation, finding it to be for the most, perfectly readable and very close to the original source’s context).

I expressed my doubts here, which still remain as such:

I’d like to take a step back in this conversation, and revisit the spirit of rule 27: "Using automated translation tools to post translated content in Local boards is not allowed."

Here I lack the full history in order to know the exact reason why it was proposed as a rule, but it was seemingly conceived in this post:

9. Discussions in the main boards must be in english. All other language discussions should be posted in the appropriate Local board.

Please expand on this with a note to the effect that "Automated machine translation, such as using google translate, does not reach the standard required to post in English." or similar. The same can be added for posting in local language boards.

Added rule 27:

27. Using automated translation tools to post translated content in Local boards is not allowed.

Here I’m talking from a conceptual point of view, and not about specific cases. Now I figure that the rule had, in principle, the objective of facilitating a seamless conversation and/or understanding on what is posted on a local board. If that were the objective, then would automated translations that are clearly intelligible be permitted? What if they only strayed a few words here and there, but were still easily intelligible?

Something that has a terrible translation is obviously subpar, and certainly falls under the said rule, but on broarder terms, and just as an afterthought, we probably see a fair share of that on regular posts in the English sections, made by or assisted by tools used by non-native people.

What I’m trying to get at is whether these tools, and their output, are not allowed per se (as the rule reads), or if they are if the result is good enough (albeit not perfect).  <…>

Note: I don't expect people to frequently resort to Google Translate or such to post on a local board, which would seem rather unnatural as a habit, but sparse non-spam/non-plagiarized like comprehensible posts could probably be given an easy pass. Every now and then, someone non-native to my local board does so, often to clarify something after being mentioned in a local board post. The resulting assisted post is, more often than not, readable and welcome.

[BITCOIN4X]

Actually I'm not emphasising or concentrating on banning of a user who choose to make use of multilingual for different boards precisely, I'm considering the factor of feature concerning writing in different local boards. if we duely embrace that as a system, it affects the community in future time, we should reason the disadvantages side of it, not only looking at the advantages aspect alone. Users wouldn't mine to use Google translator to penetrate different boards that they are not fluent for communication or interaction, so therefore i kicked against the idea of pertaken in different board, that's my point, i hope i have made it clear.

I see what you mean but it seems the OP is only emphasizing on users having the ability to use two different language ​​without the help of google translate. I don't mind if some users post fluently on different local board, but I agree as you think about those who are not fluent in different language.

As far as we know some users can do it on multiple local board smoothly, that's their strength. They can do it because it's not forbidden in the rules. But wait, do you mind if someone fluent can post something quality on a different local board? If not, then let them do it as long as no rules are broken.

[JohnBitCo]

I didn't expect to find this in the "FAQ" session of the Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ because it is not a common and frequently asked question. However for the benefit of people who may be in this unique position and will need clarity;

-If i can speak, understand and write correctly in two or more languages, can i be a member of multiple local boards and engage in their various local discussions in their respective languages? Is there any rule against it?

There is absolutely no restrictions about this and you can post in multiple local boards as long as you have command on multiple languages.
Usually, people have command on two languages, one is English (global language) and other one is your native mother tongue language (in case English is not your mother tongue). The rest of the languages are the ones we usually learn and hence may not be too much fluent in them. If you are comfortable with many languages, it's good to go and post at relevant local threads.

[bitmover]

Although there are bound to be quite a few that have posted on local boards, I only track merit related information. To that effect, the following is a list of those accounts that have been merited on more than one local board to date:

Code:

banned    user_id   name                               nMeritedLocalBoards
N         1852120   fillippone                         11
N         1267993   Leteravian                         9
N         2627711   Ratimov                            8
N         1554927   bitmover                           7
N         1137579   icopress                           6
N         459836    LoyceV                             6
N         2654005   zasad@                             5
N         389306    bitrefill                          4
N         557798    TryNinja                           4
N         805820    Lafu                               4
N         27470     cygan                              4
N         131333    wwzsocki                           4
N         215813    Daltonik                           4
N         507936    DarkStar_                          4
Y         1038373   narghat                            4
N         1067333   El duderino_                       4
N         1606609   Furgon Chino                       4
N         2143453   1miau                              4
N         1891055   vladimirhf                         3
N         1701092   Husires                            3
N         1729238   UmerIdrees                         3
N         1827294   Husna QA                           3
N         1280964   MinoRaiola                         3
N         1311641   tvplus006                          3
N         1210969   JSRAW                              3
N         1052091   CryptopreneurBrainboss             3
N         1107844   amishmanish                        3
N         1169179   Rath_                              3
N         1059082   hugeblack                          3
Y         1018610   luna2017                           3
N         954325    BARADED                            3
N         217199    sbogovac                           3
N         263246    pazor_true                         3
N         137185    jeremypwr                          3
N         65636     babo                               3
N         522205    mr.relax                           3
N         112493    Pmalek                             3
N         2597426   efialtis                           3
N         2615217   DragonDance                        2
N         2623635   Pulsar5                            2
N         2647304   Ryutaro                            2
N         2667213   Coinsbee.com                       2
N         2690537   Rohan Kotkar                       2
N         2718320   VSYNC_                             2
N         2749610   CryptoboyRamesh                    2
N         2803686   AishwaryaDas                       2
Y         2889812   Cryptomint9                        2
N         2576271   topup-balance                      2
Y         2445907   nicunicu                           2
N         1976275   blokklanc                          2
N         1975036   AirdropsMob                        2
Y         1973597   mbsyahia                           2
N         2426786   ShadowPresidentOfUkraine           2
N         2530429   RapTarX                            2
N         2541853   renek78                            2
N         2363935   YOSHIE                             2
N         2344286   Little Mouse                       2
N         2427207   Indymoney                          2
N         2456348   mahmuterdem                        2
N         2162672   aga0685                            2
N         2204241   ICOEthics                          2
N         2295676   VasilyS                            2
Y         2151185   slocker                            2
N         2290678   favebook                           2
N         2312909   epidemia                           2
N         2313339   Jrashid                            2
N         2323298   cryptofarid10                      2
N         2373346   DTalk                              2
N         2658890   Rikafip                            2
N         2739454   Stalker22                          2
N         3348213   redWAY                             2
N         2857594   jniyn                              2
N         3379590   wtsimis                            2
N         2738899   FatFork                            2
N         2575774   HiveNet                            2
N         353488    Boinkit                            2
N         64400     nikkus                             2
Y         64734     vitruvio                           2
N         353680    chronicsky                         2
N         463354    coupable                           2
N         482277    cloakteam                          2
N         356938    MadeInUkraine                      2
N         509189    dannybrown                         2
N         502133    nara1892                           2
N         512663    Redones                            2
N         359716    ETFbitcoin                         2
N         397896    ^BuTcH^                            2
N         724243    hornetsnest                        2
N         825373    xCoinFactory                       2
N         679341    TheFuzzStone                       2
N         698486    buharikx31                         2
N         863921    timotron                           2
N         885730    ihnattm                            2
Y         916376    Ukraine2020                        2
N         35        theymos                            2
N         23092     malevolent                         2
N         7779      layer1gfx                          2
N         18312     phantastisch                       2
N         86549     alexrossi                          2
N         75953     goddog                             2
N         80346     Parazyd                            2
N         85033     d5000                              2
N         95619     Nadziratel                         2
N         98639     Melnik                             2
N         103262    mike0182                           2
N         113670    Mitchell                           2
N         140827    yogg                               2
N         139084    Danydee                            2
N         162183    start the art                      2
N         164822    hilariousandco                     2
N         125677    Waldschrat2                        2
N         154563    Cloudbet                           2
N         176461    Lydian                             2
Y         219801    KryptoKings                        2
N         307884    teeGUMES                           2
N         314792    examplens                          2
N         319562    JohnUser                           2
N         207818    guigui371                          2
N         251328    SiNeReiNZzz                        2
N         257004    big_daddy                          2
N         221114    Noolz39                            2
Y         909172    yla1974                            2
N         964086    CharlieCox                         2
N         901661    Darker45                           2
N         903175    Csmiami                            2
N         903830    vlad2323                           2
N         787736    marlboroza                         2
N         899832    Granxis                            2
N         904446    RuslanFork                         2
N         877396    AdolfinWolf                        2
N         792989    yubit                              2
N         897509    xtraelv                            2
N         991374    Porfirii                           2
N         975910    Saint-loup                         2
N         962182    mela65                             2
N         982288    Vispilio                           2
N         985457    live coin                          2
N         1016563   mr.robot8                          2
N         1053119   Halab                              2
N         1069571   yazher                             2
N         1114597   walerikus                          2
N         1133987   thereader                          2
N         1135313   moneva                             2
N         1162086   maxweel                            2
N         1082600   kenzawak                           2
N         1109190   zickle                             2
N         1138727   VB1001                             2
Y         985133    rebel92                            2
N         1081647   friends1980                        2
N         1061308   chem96                             2
N         1076069   guelmi92                           2
N         1091302   libert19                           2
N         1115212   nuna                               2
N         1208052   frankbitcoin                       2
N         1223580   DanielRR1997                       2
N         1215537   Arrrvin                            2
N         1224889   Becassine                          2
N         1268845   Oygen                              2
N         1167826   JohnSilver                         2
N         1283017   masulum                            2
N         1292764   tranthidung                        2
N         1168192   dushanya                           2
N         1158794   gunungkembar                       2
N         1187984   naim027                            2
Y         1194518   Yuliya2404                         2
Y         1232646   salavat111                         2
N         1527925   Juwel                              2
N         1445331   bozicso                            2
N         1325560   Denlv                              2
Y         1215351   Slavyanskiy                        2
N         1067296   marv1n                             2
N         1288254   Komodor                            2
Y         1732244   Keeshan                            2
N         1856852   katanic97                          2
N         1867778   mamad.sky                          2
N         1760060   cryptobaro                         2
N         1735080   SergiuDemerji                      2
Y         1806798   kusanagi01                         2
N         1289002   Maus0728                           2
Y         1321484   unihamburg                         2
Y         1324004   coinliker                          2
N         1573369   casperBGD                          2
N         1580039   asche                              2
N         1582324   DdmrDdmr                           2
Y         1920279   zimochka                           2
N         1862043   cryptofrka                         2
N         1883627   shasan                             2
N         2033265   SuperTA                            2
N         1982152   lovesmayfamilis                    2
N         1894120   madnessteat                        2
N         1925737   wwhity                             2
N         2088368   Vs225655                           2
N         2101964   aseemhamza                         2
N         1888186   Eric01120                          2
N         1759251   Dzeronimo                          2
N         1973774   nekludov                           2
N         2027468   Buff88                             2
N         2049993   DoriangrayTW                       2
N         2067609   spatialiste                        2
N         2221461   Bitzlato                           2

The complete detail can be seen here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F_D3hzWXl0g7iUTjfzjA7490VnVxVIsOnr-xXSFSIQA/edit?usp=sharing

Note that I’m only considering Merits on Local Boards here, disregarding those in the English sections.

Needless to say that being merited on a given local board does not mean fluent in the language. I figure that, the more merited on a Local Board, and the more posts one is merited on within that local board, the more the person must master the language (not a proven rule of thumb), or at the very least, bring some interesting information to that local board.

There are also likely many profiles that, knowing multiple languages, for whatever reasons, do not venture to go into the local boards.

Intersting data.

Although I have been merited in many local boards (7)  I am only fluent in English and Portuguese. Most of my merited posts in other boards come from a few data analysis and charys i have created in multiple boards, which can be seen here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5256463.msg54641847#msg5464184

Most of my posts in multiple languages are Google translated with the original (English text)  below. I have seen other users do that as well aand i believe anyone is free to do so , as long it is necessary and a useful post.

[fillippone]

Code:

banned    user_id   name                               nMeritedLocalBoards
N         1852120   fillippone                         11
<…>

I am fluent in a couple of language, I have a working knowledge of another one, and I speak basic of a fourth one.
Of course I ventured in many local board for my translation project.

I think the best option is to write in English, then provide a courtesy translation via Google Translate for those not speaking English, providing an explicit reference to the fact you are housing GT.

Often, when posting on local boards GT use is frowned upon. Not being a paid service it is not forbid. But it is a discretion of the local moderator.
So I think that the best option is always be very clear when using GT to post.

[shasan]

-If i can speak, understand and write correctly in two or more languages, can i be a member of multiple local boards and engage in their various local discussions in their respective languages? Is there any rule against it?

You can be a member of as many local board as you can. To be a member or post on a local board is a one basic rule and that is you should be fluent in writing on that language. If you try to write by translating then that will not be allowed. Also, many a people of that local board will report against you. I had created two topics on local board which was free service but latter came to know it is not right then I had deleted my content as the topic could not be deleted.

[Pmalek]

Code:

banned    user_id   name                               nMeritedLocalBoards
N         1852120   fillippone                         11
<…>

fillippone? Not really. Looks more like fillippeleven to me. I think theymos would allow a username change if requested. I think you have a valid case based on the data shown by DdmrDdmr.
I wish the Scandinavian board was more active. Would be nice to remind myself the Swedish language. 

[wwzsocki]

I am fluent in a couple of language, I have a working knowledge of another one...

I think the best option is to write in English, then provide a courtesy translation via Google Translate for those not speaking English, providing an explicit reference to the fact you are housing GT...

Fully agree with you, I myself also am fluent in few languages, also merited in few local boards and still I was in need to use Google Translator to be able to post on some local board like Chinese that I can't speak myself and such simple rule about using translators could bring a lot more clarity not only to such short comments as mine or discussions but also for more advanced content that is written by BTT members. Many times, many great texts will be not translated at all because of actual rules if you can't use translators and post that content in local boards.

I need to add here that I work in crypto, gambling translations niche from quite some time and have extended knowledge about translators and their quality. In last years AI and Machine Learning did such big progress that automated translations are very good and many times Google translator is good as human.

Crypto is more as 10 years here and these tools already learned crypto slang, new words that where problematic for translators like Google few years ago and the main reason that experienced in crypto translators saw so much demand are not more the case. In last year this niche of crypto translations ended literally at all because majority use automated tools, not only because are way cheaper then humans but also a lot faster and unfortunately for us lately even better.

And if some project hire a service to do human crypto translations for them, believe me 90% of such services use automated translators anyway LOL  

AI will change the world and take many jobs from humans this is great example.

[fillippone]

And if some project hire a service to do human crypto translations for them, believe me 90% of such services uses automated translators anyway LOL  

AI will change the world and take many jobs from humans this is great example.

Not sure if you agree with @bitmover for something he has said, or you agree with me, and erroneously attributed to @bitmover (I am not taking in consideration a plagiarism by bitmover!)

Anyway, yes. Automated translators have considerably raised their level in the last years, and spotting an automated translation si becoming harder and harder (I am referring here to English/main languages translations).

Also spotting AI written posts is becoming more difficult, but this is another story:

AI writing messages on Bitcointalk.org

[KingsDen]

The forum forbids the use of Google translators in local sections, but the forum will not even notice if a person speaks without errors

Are there strong reasons the forum forbids the use of translators in the local boards?
How about if someone desires to learn a particular language, by being in this forum and using the translators will aid the person achieve his goal.
The forum is known for being generous in knowledge sharing, I wish I can really know the reason behind the local board - translator clause.

[wwzsocki]

Not sure if you agree with @bitmover for something he has said, or you agree with me, and erroneously attributed to @bitmover (I am not taking in consideration a plagiarism by bitmover!)...

"...erroneously attributed to @bitmover..." - yes my bad, sorry

...Anyway, yes. Automated translators have considerably raised their level in the last years, and spotting an automated translation si becoming harder and harder (I am referring here to English/main languages translations)...

I have tested few translators with few languages and all of them are great, humans make more mistakes, to be honest majority of translators use these tools from always to make their work easier and faster, of course you can't just copy and paste some text but with proper editing such tool is each translator best friend.

On this forum because we have rules that not allow using translators nobody confirms to use them, to not get in trouble, but the truth is different. I think rules should be changed, automated translators are better with each day and all that matters in here on forum is quality in the end, so let's allow HQ automated translations with proper annotation, that's it.

If translation is good does it matter if was translated automatically, especially if there is such statement under it?

[lovesmayfamilis]

The forum forbids the use of Google translators in local sections, but the forum will not even notice if a person speaks without errors

Are there strong reasons the forum forbids the use of translators in the local boards?
How about if someone desires to learn a particular language, by being in this forum and using the translators will aid the person achieve his goal.
The forum is known for being generous in knowledge sharing, I wish I can really know the reason behind the local board - translator clause.

Why are you asking me this? Did I write this rule? I stand by what is acknowledged by the community, it is your right to use or not a translator, trusting it completely, and being responsible for the consequences accordingly.
Are you sure that you can correctly formulate your thoughts when writing something in the Chinese section (for example)? While I sometimes have difficulty understanding what Google translates, are you confident that native speakers in any locale will understand the translator's language?

[Rockstarguy]

The forum forbids the use of Google translators in local sections, but the forum will not even notice if a person speaks without errors

Are there strong reasons the forum forbids the use of translators in the local boards?
How about if someone desires to learn a particular language, by being in this forum and using the translators will aid the person achieve his goal.
The forum is known for being generous in knowledge sharing, I wish I can really know the reason behind the local board - translator clause.

Translator can be use to follow up on discussions that may seems interesting to a member just to have knowledge about the topics that is been discussed,  it will not make sense if a person who can't speak or understand the language of a particular local board to use a translator to participate on that discussion because sometimes translator can't give proper meaning of a language,  this can also be a problem for members of the local board to get better understanding of what is been translated.

[fillippone]

If translation is good does it matter if was translated automatically, especially if there is such statement under it?

I guess the rule had also the aim not to favour spam across the forum.
Allowing automated translations would mean each “project” can flood the forum in every local board, while the necessity of a human intervention can slow down, raising costs, this process.
This is why I would be careful removing this rule, even if the quality of automated translations has improved so much lately.

[wwzsocki]

...I would be careful removing this rule...

of course, I am always bit too fast, adjust it not to remove at all,

I agree that this rule is needed on this forum, with some exceptions and additional requirements could work much better, everything in crypto evolves pretty fast and sometimes rules also needs to be updated, maybe this is the case but this is only my personal opinion.

I am aware that I don't see many things, one of them as you mentioned  “project can flood the forum in every local board" for sure mods could bring here in few seconds more great examples to keep this rule rolling, yeah we need to talk is the only way to get there.

[Peanutswar]

as far as I know, we dont have any rule regarding posting into another language but in some cases, I guess we need to prevent delivering wrong information on the discussion because sometimes having the proper translation might give towards misleading information to their local community we know that not translator is accurate but if the member has an understanding and really know how language well it's fit and good to communicate to other local board.

[Pmalek]

I guess we need to prevent delivering wrong information on the discussion because sometimes having the proper translation might give towards misleading information to their local community we know that not translator is accurate but if the member has an understanding and really know how language well it's fit and good to communicate to other local board.

There are actually no limitations and no central authority that decides what is true and what isn't. The information can be completely inaccurate or misleading but if it doesn't break one of the rules, such as the low-value post rule, spam, etc., it won't get deleted.

You can create a thread saying that Satoshi was an NBA player who created Bitcoin as an exchange medium between basketball players. Unfortunately, the information leaked and the FBI released a whitepaper in his name to the general public. As long as this discussion takes place in the correct section and follows all other forum rules, it's good to go. You won't be censored by the admins. You might be told you are a degenerate, but that's another discussion .