Stake charging $3.09 on a $1.69 withdraw

[rhomelmabini]

So my question remains what did Stake do with the remaining $1.40 

It is a big amount to go missing especially when some Sportsbooks don't charge anything.

I think it doesn't concern every customer anymore on what they did on that charge of fee. I think it isn't that huge compare to what we've experienced in the past when Bitcoin is getting too volatile. If it concerns you that much there are other sportsbooks you can try that doesn't charge or use another mode of transfer like others using layer 2 solution or other chains like Solana (I don't know if there are much information regarding sites that using Solana chain).

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[Ryker1]

Well, you know that it is their attitude and why you still using them despite those transactions fees that you have concerned, instead --find another gambling platform that did not have fees which is you will find on this thread, ^{[ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5333602.0 ]}.

Just move on kid, if you cannot afford that withdrawal fee then --gambling is not for you.

[aswathv1984]

They show the fees upfront, but I think it is about time they implement dynamic fees like other casinos.

Op, you can try some other coins which have low fees like litecoin, trx, eos

[Ryker1]

^[snip]
Op, you can try some other coins which have low fees like litecoin, trx, eos

Well here is the complete list of supported coins.
-Bitcoin (BTC)
-Bitcoin Cash (BCH)
-Ethereum (ETH)
-Litecoin (LTC)
-Dogecoin (DOG)
-Ripple (XRP)
-TRON (TRX)
-EOS.
I prefer to use XRP which is a very low fee and has the fastest transaction.
^{[ https://www.stakefans.com/crypto-gambling/ ]}

[Odusko]

They could just tell the truth about it that they are charging withdrawal fee,

I don't think they ever hid that they are charging withdrawal fees. in fact, they are saying that they are charging withdrawal fees. you can check their ToS and you'll find what you are looking for on "Withdrawals". you can even see when trying to withdraw how much they will charge you for the withdrawal fee.

Well the case here has a different view and scenarios for different forks, as we all know that every casino with their roles as some sites give the customers the choice to chose the fee and transaction time if a casino charge an extra fee aside from the blockchain fees it may become a double burden on the customers most especially those who want to withdraw a small amount but those withdrawing big amount may not feel the impact of the charges but a regular player who want to withdraw small amount.

[seoincorporation]

Stake subtracted $3.09 from my withdraw
https://ibb.co/mRc56hy

Cost of the transaction on the blockchain was only $1.69
https://ibb.co/4m3gg6L


So my question remains what did Stake do with the remaining $1.40 

The first one is the Casino Fees on the withdrawal and the second one is the blockchain fees for the transaction. They charge only the casino fee and they cover the transaction fees.

They keep the remaining $1.4 and this is not new, all the casinos and exchanges do this.

As we can see in their TOS:

Note that some payment methods may include an additional fee. In this case, the fee will be clearly visible for you in the cashier.

And I see in the images there was the warning about the fees, so, they didn't break any rule.

[Webetcoins]

Withdrawal fees are a hot topic on every gambling site and if you visit the stake ANN thread and scan the pages, you will see that there are users that talks about it but this can be an old issue to some, that's why they don't talk about it anymore and besides, the stake casino supports several altcoins which withdrawal fees are lesser than bitcoin. No need for a complain but they will just use those.

It's also normal that some casinos charge extra fees, they are not just a wallet that copies every fee you see in the blockchain. It's their problem anymore if what they will do with the extra fees that they collect but I think they will use it for the development of their casino.

[rdbase]

If I am not mistaken, their withdrawal fee is about 0.00007 btc or equal to ~$3 for any amount but I am not sure about that.
Do you already ask their support system about this?
But I think they use that amount as the additional fees to prevent if the network has high traffic and makes the transaction delayed.
Can we know how much you want to withdraw?
Because if your want to withdraw $50-$100, paying $3 is okay.

It was higher at 0.0005btc before but since there was so much backlash on why they were charging more than $20 for a withdrawal. At the time this was absolutely absurd since they have many players who bet less than $1 per bet and just hope to withdraw $10 on their winnings.
So they reduced it to 0.00007btc back when bitcoin's price was under $30,000.
But now that it has risen closer to $45,000, this withdrawal fee just might be too much once again.

They should really come up with a dynamic system for these withdrawal fees or just not charge any fee at all to withdraw from your balance. Just like many of the other main online casinos have done.

^[snip]
Op, you can try some other coins which have low fees like litecoin, trx, eos

Well here is the complete list of supported coins.
-Bitcoin (BTC)
-Bitcoin Cash (BCH)
-Ethereum (ETH)
-Litecoin (LTC)
-Dogecoin (DOG)
-Ripple (XRP)
-TRON (TRX)
-EOS.
I prefer to use XRP which is a very low fee and has the fastest transaction.
^{[ https://www.stakefans.com/crypto-gambling/ ]}

Good point!
I just might start using ripple for any future transactions I make on to exchanges/casinos.
I thought litecoin was the lowest since they only usually charge 0.001ltc which equates to $0.20~ and doesn't ever really change much even when cryptomarket prices are increasing or decreasing.

[Kakmakr]

Well, the main goal for most casinos are to discourage people to withdraw money from their site and to have them wager almost everything to increase their profits. I honestly think that they do not charge you the high withdrawal fee to make a huge profit, but rather to get people not to withdraw money constantly from their platform.

Just imagine if they charged a fix withdrawal fee of say $0.50 and people win $1000 and withdraw $10 every other day.... just because it was easy and cheap to do it. 

[wxa7115]

They could just tell the truth about it that they are charging withdrawal fee,

I don't think they ever hid that they are charging withdrawal fees. in fact, they are saying that they are charging withdrawal fees. you can check their ToS and you'll find what you are looking for on "Withdrawals". you can even see when trying to withdraw how much they will charge you for the withdrawal fee.

I think this is the right answer, I understand that people do not want to pay the withdrawal fee as this affects them, especially if they are gambling with a low amount of money, but at the same time if this is on their TOS and you accepted it before playing there then there is not much to do.

If you do not want to pay for those fees then you need to find a casino that does not charge them, fortunately for the OP there are several of them in this market which have a good reputation so he only needs to play there and solve their issues in this way.

[stomachgrowls]

it is one of their ways of earning money. if you think the amount is too much, better use a gambling site that don't charge anything when withdrawing.

This is true and this is how business works on which they do earn profit out of those fee extra aside on getting from house edge alone.If you dont like their fee structure then you could always opt out

They could just tell the truth about it that they are charging withdrawal fee, though I think that $1 is nothing for most of us. I think this user is disappointed and feel he is deceived by the Stake because the fee is different from the blockchain than what he paid for but to tell the truth it doesn't bother me, I withdraw small amount yesterday and it came to my wallet in less than 5 mins I didn't notice about the fee by the way.

What telling the truth? Withdrawal fee is visible when you visit the wallet of Stake and also it was indicated on there TOS under Withdrawal category("Note that some payment methods may include an additional fee. In this case, the fee will be clearly visible for you in the cashier." -https://stake.com/policies/terms). It's the player responsibility to inspect carefully the Casino before he will play on it because once he click the agree button on the ToS part, You agree already on what is written there and you should follow which in this case was the fee is visible by the time he withdraw and accepts it as is.

Dont know about that telling the truth yet it is clear as day on what they are charging and dont tend to hide anything which its a non sense kind of word that had been said.

It is how things been set out so as a player then there's nothing we can do but to deal with it yet they dont have any internal exchange where you could really make out some conversions
but i do remember that you could sent out some funds on using Dinabot.. I havent experience it for myself but this might able to help out.

[perla]

The question is how seriously we should take this. You make a payout of no less than $1.69?
We can assume that $3 is not an absurdly high fee for a payout. Seems like a non serious gambler to cash out $1.69. It seems more intended as an act of Stake to blacken, which is unreasonable. I've never seen or heard of anyone willing to cash out $1.69. And the fee, yes $3 that doesn't seem too much to me. I would recommend paying a normal amount next time and not an extremely low amount. You could also have done $10 and see what the fee would be.

[bitbollo]

Of course there are service that not require fees, but this amount is payed in other terms (higher house edge...low odds...)
This difference is pretty normal on our industry and this is in line with other service like exchange.
They ask the same amount for any withdrawal and transactions are processed fast.
I don't think they should blame for this . Cost of maintenance of hot wallet/cold wallet / setup / etc are not free ...  

The question is how seriously we should take this. You make a payout of no less than $1.69?
We can assume that $3 is not an absurdly high fee for a payout. Seems like a non serious gambler to cash out $1.69. It seems more intended as an act of Stake to blacken, which is unreasonable. I've never seen or heard of anyone willing to cash out $1.69. And the fee, yes $3 that doesn't seem too much to me. I would recommend paying a normal amount next time and not an extremely low amount. You could also have done $10 and see what the fee would be.

OP has not withdrawn 1.69 USD
the minimum you can withdraw is just 0.0005 btc equal to 22 USD
The complaint is based on difference between transaction fee vs blockchain fee.

[OgNasty]

OP has not withdrawn 1.69 USD
the minimum you can withdraw is just 0.0005 btc equal to 22 USD
The complaint is based on difference between transaction fee vs blockchain fee.

Yes, it is good to actually understand what the OP is saying.  I think judging them on a single transaction is a bit harsh.  I don't know how their system works, but I assume that they aren't calculating every fee separately for each transaction.  Likely they set an amount to pay for fees and adjust it if needed.  They also likely build in a little room for error so that if prices for transactions do shoot upwards, they aren't left holding a bag of fees for users.  

This complaint seems to be like saying that a shipping company charged your more for shipping than they paid the post office to ship the package.  What people should understand is that there are other costs involved as well.  Packaging materials, employees to box up goods, etc...  I think an extra dollar on withdrawals is not much and if that's what they need to do in order to keep withdrawal fees down (they recently lowered them a lot) then I'm fine with it...  Surely there are other costs involved besides just the tx fee for stake.

[Zackgeno96]

Some sites charge a fee, others do not. The fee of the blockchain network seems very normal to me that it is paid by the gambling site, that is an extra that the site has to accept. Apart from that, there are sites that charge a certain fee and some sites do not charge a fee at all. If you request a payment via a certain electronic system, I could imagine that a fee has to be paid, because, for example, you also have to pay a fee as a bank holder for bank transfers to certain countries. This is then passed on to the customer. However, if it only concerns a crypto transaction, my opinion is that a gambling site should not charge a fee because it costs nothing.

[Haunebu]

Of course there are service that not require fees, but this amount is payed in other terms (higher house edge...low odds...)

Wrong. There are several reputed crypto gambling sites like Bitcasino, Sportsbet etc which charge zero withdrawal fees and don't inflate the odds, house edge etc.

I think judging them on a single transaction is a bit harsh.  I don't know how their system works, but I assume that they aren't calculating every fee separately for each transaction.  Likely they set an amount to pay for fees and adjust it if needed.  They also likely build in a little room for error so that if prices for transactions do shoot upwards, they aren't left holding a bag of fees for users.  

3 bucks isn't a big amount, but there are many reputed sites out there that charge zero or lower withdrawal fees making them more appealing in comparison. Stake definitely needs to improve in this aspect.

Edit: Just found out that Stake will be offering an economical option to gamblers which is a great decision even though it took a long time for this particular change.

[cabron]

You are trying to withdraw $1.69 worth of BTC and then stake charge $3.09. Why are you trying to withdraw $1.69?

Casinos have ways to make money including withdrawal fees, it's among thier services. If you wanna see some casinos that don't charge for withdrawals, you may find some of them in the list created by Pmalek in this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5333602.0

[DarkStar_]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before and why Stake continues to think it's acceptable behavior.

Stake subtracted $3.09 from my withdraw
https://ibb.co/mRc56hy

Cost of the transaction on the blockchain was only $1.69
https://ibb.co/4m3gg6L

So my question remains what did Stake do with the remaining $1.40  

It is a big amount to go missing especially when some Sportsbooks don't charge anything.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this already, but certain transactions cost more to withdraw, such as transactions that spend more than one input. Those transactions are unavoidable for a casino, which will almost certainly have more deposit transactions than withdraw transactions. If they chose to charge withdraws a fee based on what was actually paid, it introduces a luck based component around how many inputs your transaction will have - you might pay $1.69, but you could also pay $6 if there were many inputs used. I don't think anyone would be happy with gambling on fees, so the easiest way for sites to handle it is to charge a fixed fee that covers the average withdraw fee.

I've had cases where Stake actually spent more than what I've paid (sometimes way more), as well as times where Stake paid less.

[Stunna]

We charge the average transaction fee
https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee

What we spend on fees on average is actually significantly more than that on average because of the number of inputs in play.

Your transaction happened to use very few inputs and was during a non-peak time. Before you made your transaction we do tell you what the fee is and you do have the option to use coins with lower fee. But we would like to offer economy fee options going forward.

[magneto]

Yeah, exactly what Stunna said.

I think that maintaining the wallet infrastructure as well would cost a lot of money and should be priced into the fee, so what Stake is charging is actually quite reasonable.

Economy fee options are definitely attractive though, I think a lot of people playing with near dust amounts would like that.