What happened to the forum plagiarism rules?

[logfiles]

I would like to think that we do not have enough mods to handle the reports and they are missing it because of work overload. This could be a reason too.

I am also leaning towards this reason. A number of mods have left or become inactive and there gotten a disqualification but I don't remember the admin ever giving other user the moderation responsibility in the past 2-3 years

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I am also leaning towards this reason. A number of mods have left or become inactive and there gotten a disqualification but I don't remember the admin ever giving other user the moderation responsibility in the past 2-3 years

If you noticed then you should have seen hilariousandco used to response concerning any forum related issues from the users but I did not see him to address on this thread yet. The last one I remember to get mods job was Welsh and it's been a long year since then. So it's pretty much a certain that we have not enough mods right now. I have seen many users to talk about not banning users for plagiarism even after reporting the plagiarist. This is not good at all for the forum after all.

[JollyGood]

This is an important issue your raised here. I have only ever reported a post for plagiarism a few times but the most recent one (yesterday) was reported by other users long before I reported it.

FatFork was the forum member that highlighted this issue about samputin but that post has not been removed and that user has not been temporarily/permanently banned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1926895.msg59327375#msg59327375

If moderators do not take action then it makes you wonder whether there is any point in trying to report plagiarism. I have reported spam and pointless/nonsensical posts in the past and most of them are addressed one way or another but with reporting plagiarism it seems many forum members are not seeing the outcome they would have hoped for when reporting posts (such as temporary or permanent bans).

Dear moderators, can I ask you what the latest plagiarism rules are?
I have reported several cases of plagiarism, but no action has been taken on them so far.
Yes, I see that you began to give temporary bans to beginners (if I'm not mistaken). Then let's make it known to everyone that if you are a newbie, you have the right to copy anything you want.
In addition, the forum strives to provide unique content, so why aren't cases of plagiarism even removed?
And another question, how many times can newbies have cases of copying so that punishment will apply to it?

[FatFork]

This is an important issue your raised here. I have only ever reported a post for plagiarism a few times but the most recent one (yesterday) was reported by other users long before I reported it.

FatFork was the forum member that highlighted this issue about samputin but that post has not been removed and that user has not been temporarily/permanently banned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1926895.msg59327375#msg59327375
<cut>

I am unable to confirm what happened to that report anymore, however I believe it remained unhandled. Even the post itself remained intact.
In my opinion, it looks like blatant case of plagiarism, so I am not sure why the moderators disagree.

[JollyGood]

Maybe the moderators do not disagree. Maybe the moderators might had missed the report had it been triggered by one member but several members reported it and nothing seems to have happened as a consequence. At the very least the member concerned should have had action taken such as a temporary ban. Still, I reported it recently therefore will give it a few days more before asking a moderator to look in to what happened (if nothing happens to the post or the user involved).

This is an important issue your raised here. I have only ever reported a post for plagiarism a few times but the most recent one (yesterday) was reported by other users long before I reported it.

FatFork was the forum member that highlighted this issue about samputin but that post has not been removed and that user has not been temporarily/permanently banned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1926895.msg59327375#msg59327375
<cut>

I am unable to confirm what happened to that report anymore, however I believe it remained unhandled. Even the post itself remained intact.
In my opinion, it looks like blatant case of plagiarism, so I am not sure why the moderators disagree.

[Poker Player]

Dear moderators, can I ask you what the latest plagiarism rules are?

So, no moderator responded, right? That's why I said in the other thread that it seemed to me that they were not going to explain the criteria. I don't know why they will do this but being transparent with the criteria would help those of us who care about the forum.

So have the rules against plagiarism become laxer or not?
This is a little bit confusing, to be honest.

Indeed it is.

[Lucius]

So, no moderator responded, right? That's why I said in the other thread that it seemed to me that they were not going to explain the criteria. I don't know why they will do this but being transparent with the criteria would help those of us who care about the forum.

It seems to me that the main criterion now is to save as many members as possible, which means forgiving them of plagiarism/paraphrasing or giving them a temp ban. I don't know how else to explain the fact that there are threads like this where people wonder what the hell is going on with those damn rules.

I can only say that this was not the case before, every well-documented case of plagiarism was resolved within 3 days - maybe the forum has problems with the staff dealing with things like this?

[Igebotz]

So, no moderator responded, right? That's why I said in the other thread that it seemed to me that they were not going to explain the criteria. I don't know why they will do this but being transparent with the criteria would help those of us who care about the forum.

It seems to me that the main criterion now is to save as many members as possible, which means forgiving them of plagiarism/paraphrasing or giving them a temp ban. I don't know how else to explain the fact that there are threads like this where people wonder what the hell is going on with those damn rules.

I can only say that this was not the case before, every well-documented case of plagiarism was resolved within 3 days - maybe the forum has problems with the staff dealing with things like this?

All of my plagiarism reported cases from the previous month have been labeled unhandled, and to be honest, it kills the zeel in me to keep reporting when nothing will be done in the end, it looks like a lost quest! I've noticed that the mods are too lenient in cases of plagiarism, especially when it comes to old users. What about reintroducing the plagiarism ban bot?

Anyone who loves and wants to keep his topic clean should make it self-moderated because the mods have become less active these days; perhaps it's time theymos replaced some of the inactive staff to keep the forum running, as it's been ages since he appointed new mods. We have qualified and active users here who are eager to help.

[Igebotz]

All of my plagiarism reported cases from the previous month have been labeled unhandled, and to be honest, it kills the zeel in me to keep reporting when nothing will be done in the end, it looks like a lost quest! I've noticed that the mods are too lenient in cases of plagiarism, especially when it comes to old users. What about reintroducing the plagiarism ban bot?

Anyone who loves and wants to keep his topic clean should make it self-moderated because the mods have become less active these days; perhaps it's time theymos replaced some of the inactive staff to keep the forum running, as it's been ages since he appointed new mods. We have qualified and active users here who are eager to help.

Perhaps the moderators are following the administration's instructions on mitigating penalties for plagiarism or something like that. Because this behavior is observed in many sections, or global moderators do not want to ban users, especially old ones. One can only guess, and recently it has become easier and faster to get unbanned

Wouldn't it make more sense for one of the mods to come out and address the latest plagiarism rules rather than leaving us with so many assumptions over the last few months?

In 2018, the punishment was active and fast, but there is also a negative point in this, since many users who do not understand the rules well were banned and after that did not make any attempts to restore their activity on the forum. In general, a permanent ban for plagiarism is too severe a punishment initially. It would be fair to give this only with repeated plagiarism. Such strict rules still had some consequences for the activity of the forum, since there were indecently many bans at that time.

We also had a lot of banned cases in 2020 and early 2021, but I noticed that the actions on plagiarism cases became so minimal after the recent two unbanned cases we had earlier this year, and the forum activity has also decreased since the beginning of last year. I personally believe that onetime plagiarism for users who have contributed to the forum for many years getting banned is just too harsh; perhaps such users should be given a temban as a warning for first plagiarism, and maybe pamban after 3 attempts.

[Poker Player]

We also had a lot of banned cases in 2020 and early 2021, but I noticed that the actions on plagiarism cases became so minimal after the recent two unbanned cases we had earlier this year, and the forum activity has also decreased since the beginning of last year. I personally believe that onetime plagiarism for users who have contributed to the forum for many years getting banned is just too harsh; perhaps such users should be given a temban as a warning for first plagiarism, and maybe pamban after 3 attempts.

I would give them the permaban after a second time. I mean you plagiarize, they catch you they warn you or give you a tamporari ban and you go and plagiarize a second time? For me waiting for a third would be too lenient. The second time you can no longer say that you did not know that plagiarizing was forbidden, or something like that.

[Rikafip]

Wouldn't it make more sense for one of the mods to come out and address the latest plagiarism rules rather than leaving us with so many assumptions over the last few months?

@Halab addressed that yesterday and it seems like there are no official rules or policy regarding plagiarism.

What I can say is that there is no official policy change for plagiarism cases... because there are no official rules for plagiarism. It's case by case. Often I find reporters are very strict, you cross outside the crosswalk, you go to jail !! You have to judge on several factors : did it happen once ? Is it an honest omission ? Does he really take ownership of the copied text ? Etc...

I think that some middle ground approach is needed here; giving perma ban for the first offense is too much imho and temporary ban (or even better longer signature ban) would make more sense and then perma for the 2nd as they can't claim that they didn't know about the rules.

[lovesmayfamilis]

Moderators, no matter how you guess, have their own criteria. For example, the case with naim027 is not plagiarism for them. The case with RajaDen, who repeatedly plagiarized, as well as malicious cheating, is also not considered critical.

Therefore, the purity of the forum and other beautiful words remains only "on paper". There is an idea of the beauty of the forum, but there is no desire to make it so.

[Lucius]

All of my plagiarism reported cases from the previous month have been labeled unhandled, and to be honest, it kills the zeel in me to keep reporting when nothing will be done in the end, it looks like a lost quest! I've noticed that the mods are too lenient in cases of plagiarism, especially when it comes to old users. What about reintroducing the plagiarism ban bot?

It's good to know that something is really going on in the background and that we haven't become so bad in our assessments when it comes to plagiarism and paraphrasing reports. What exactly is the reason that the rules have softened we can only guess, but it certainly has a demotivating effect on all who report such things.

Anyone who loves and wants to keep his topic clean should make it self-moderated because the mods have become less active these days; perhaps it's time theymos replaced some of the inactive staff to keep the forum running, as it's been ages since he appointed new mods. We have qualified and active users here who are eager to help.

Self-moderated threads do not solve the problem of plagiarism, but they definitely make sense to fight spam. The problem is that very few members want to moderate their threads, it is much easier to transfer all this work to moderators.

Many will say it’s a waste of time anyway, and unlike moderators who get paid for their work, everyone else does it for free. Last time the admin posted a list of members with the most good reports one could read a lot of comments about how individual members wonder why someone spends their time on reports.

[Igebotz]

~snip~

I would give them the permaban after a second time. I mean you plagiarize, they catch you they warn you or give you a tamporari ban and you go and plagiarize a second time? For me waiting for a third would be too lenient. The second time you can no longer say that you did not know that plagiarizing was forbidden, or something like that.

Tbh, I never report a single case of plagiarism. Instead, I always PM the user to do the right thing and put such user on watch for a while to see if he's a plagiarist or if the one time was just a mistake. But, yes, the second time is too much.

Wouldn't it make more sense for one of the mods to come out and address the latest plagiarism rules rather than leaving us with so many assumptions over the last few months?

@Halab addressed that yesterday and it seems like there are no official rules or policy regarding plagiarism.

Often I find reporters are very strict, you cross outside the crosswalk, you go to jail !!.

Is Halab really blaming the reporters for doing a good job? There is nothing wrong with issuing a temban for first-time plagiarism; we simply wanted to know why our reports were rejected and why some users are banned for first-time plagiarism while others are not.

Therefore, the purity of the forum and other beautiful words remains only "on paper". There is an idea of the beauty of the forum, but there is no desire to make it so.

It's always easier said than done, and while everyone's attention is focused on the new forum software, one thing is certain: if nothing works here, nothing will happen there either.

Anyone who loves and wants to keep his topic clean should make it self-moderated because the mods have become less active these days;

Self-moderated threads do not solve the problem of plagiarism, but they definitely make sense to fight spam.

That's exactly what I meant when I said that instead of reporting all cases of spam to moderators.

[Pmalek]

I am quite sure that the noticeable drop in activity and general interest of new members for the forum is the reason the admins are somewhat more careful with issuing permanent bans. I visited the bounty section the other day just to see how it was doing and it seems the activity has somewhat dropped there as well. Taking all that into consideration, being extra strict with bans is probably not in the best interest of the forum right now. Having users plagiarize all over the place is also not something we want to see, so a middle ground needs to be found.   

[Igebotz]

I am quite sure that the noticeable drop in activity and general interest of new members for the forum is the reason the admins are somewhat more careful with issuing permanent bans. I visited the bounty section the other day just to see how it was doing and it seems the activity has somewhat dropped there as well. Taking all that into consideration, being extra strict with bans is probably not in the best interest of the forum right now. Having users plagiarize all over the place is also not something we want to see, so a middle ground needs to be found.   

Yes, the majority of bounty hunters are newbies, and you can tell because those are alt accounts that returned after being banned, and most of them gave up because all the merits they ever had were airdropped to them, making building impossible, so they left the forum. A one-month temban for plagiarism defaulters would save the forum from losing members, in my opinion.

We all want a safe heaven forum, but in order to have one, certain REDLINES must be maintained, and anyone who crosses them will face a penalty.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Just my personal opinion, it's plagiarism. Two people may have the same thought but it is unlikely (nearly impossible) to describe the thought in the same exact words in one place. And from his post history, before voting he never wrote the word "1xbit", which means there is no supporting reason for the vote given (unless he has an implied reason).

Thanks, I think I'll send a report to his post. Let's see what the moderator decides.

I've gone through a few of these and on the count of the quite above, non of these guys as presented by Lovesmayfamilis, all these guys are defaulters and guilty of the plagiarism rule and as such, its only expected that the rule applies. I might seem to understand why the forum tries to handle these newbies or beilginners with some tenderness and give a temporal ban but I say this, it makes no difference from a permanent ban and I think the permanent ban is much more effective.

When these newbies arr given a permanent ban, it sends a direct message on how strict is the forums stands on this rule. With the rules being clearly stated in the pinned post, ignorance is not much of an excuse. Most of all, when these users gets a banned, they still go about creating alts of which, they are very much aware of what would become of there alt should they plagiarise. It only takes the foolish once to be follow the same part and not expect the same harshness.

~snip~

I honestly agree with all you said, but we can also try to look at this from another perspective, banning a newbie permanently on their first offence is not ideal and is rather too harsh if you ask me, we all pray for a second chance when we fail at something we really want or love.
We should ask ourselves, how many of this newbies actually read the rules of this forum before they begin posting?
You know, like it's commonly said, "the best form of judgment is to put yourself in the other fellow's shoe", I use myself as an example here, when I first joined this forum, I started posting right away, I didn't know neither did I read any forum rules until about six months later, I never got banned though,(and this is why it took me so long to finally read the rules, getting a ban would have forced me to go through the rules) because I never broke the rule even though I didn't know what the rules say, so ironically, I first temp ban came some months after I've read the rules, then, I knew what I was doing was against the rule, but I went ahead to do it anyway thinking the mods wont find out, and of course they found out and I was lucky to get a temp ban, that served as a lesson to me and I never tried to go against the rules again.

So what am I saying in essence?, a newbie who breaks the forum rule might not have read the rule to know what it says, so the mods can give them that benefit of doubt and ban that user temporarily, the temp ban will force the user to read the rules, and ones the ban is lifted, if such user is sensible enough, he or she will definitely not try to break the forum rules again, but if such user still goes ahead to break the rules even after the first temp ban, then such user can be permanently banned.
Banning a newbie permanently on their first offence will only encourage one thing, and that is ban evasion, which is also another offence, so I think it better to temporarily ban on first offense as a warning and a pointer to the user to read the forum rules and regulations, then on the second offence that same user, then he or she can be banned permanently.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

The case with RajaDen, who repeatedly plagiarized, as well as malicious cheating, is also not considered critical.

Not only is he repeatedly trolling by copying scam bounty campaign threads and bluntly plagiarizing other people's posts. The user has alts that have already been banned and have been connected by Fatfork here So he's already evading ban, and yet he hasn't got banned yet after all that time. It doesn't make any sense.

I am going to report the post again, and we see how it goes.

[Igebotz]

The case with RajaDen, who repeatedly plagiarized, as well as malicious cheating, is also not considered critical.

Not only is he repeatedly trolling by copying scam bounty campaign threads and bluntly plagiarizing other people's posts. The user has alts that have already been banned and have been connected by Fatfork here So he's already evading a ban, and yet he hasn't got banned yet after all that time. It doesn't make any sense.

I am going to report the post again, and we see how it goes.

A newbie rank with three negative tags is the same as a dead account; it serves no purpose and causes no harm to the forum; if he's still posting, he's only contributing to forum activities; and, from what I've heard, the mods prefer punishment to bans these days. Only DT can save the forum now!!

[Solosanz]

Just wanted to tell you guys, the plagiarism rule is still exist and anyone can get banned no matter what how much his merits or his ranks. The naim027's case is the prove an user gained 500+ merits already get banned permanently according to BPIP. I don't know which post the moderators decide to ban him, the first report I created on the "report plagiarism" naim027 noticed it and edited his post with the original source and LoyceV said he wouldn't likely get banned after realizing his mistake, he suggest naim027 to check all of his posts and put the sources.

However I have found his another plagiarism post and already report to moderator (I don't want to make another report on the "report plagiarism" thread since it can easily noticed by him and he will add the sources again), perhaps the second report that's make moderator decide to ban him since he failed to follow LoyceV suggestion. At least we know broke plagiarism rule is still zero tolerance until now. There's no excuse for high ranked users to deny he was don't know the forum rules, if it's a newbies, then it make sense to give a second chance.

I want to say thank you for moderators to take care of this case and I wouldn't surprised if I see there's new account/low rank account shitposting on WO thread to earn easy merit

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