Why all this hype with Hardware Wallets when Bitcoin Core is all you need?

[TracaChang]

I'm sorry, but you're actually talking out of your ass here.

Why would you include the cost of seed plates when using a hardware wallet, but not when using a laptop? It makes no sense. Either you factor in the cost with both or with none. I prefer none, because I won't assume how someone secures their seed based on their wallet choice.

Sure seed plate is not needed, but that is the recommendations I use to see. Why not when using a latptop? Because with bitcoin core you just backup a wallet.dat

You'd advise to do backups; sure, you can do that. But reliability of laptop storage would mean you might be looking at replacing that crappy old laptop HDD short time after setting it up, so having to buy a new one (or upgrade to SSD) will again cost you time and money to install, set up and restore. Lots of hassle.

Backups can be made in USB Flash Drive, DVD, SD Cards etc

Not 'many of them can be hacked easily'. The hacks that were possible, weren't too simple to perform (took multiple hours & good equipment + knowledge) and they were only on hardware wallets of the 'first generation' (without secure element) and on firmware versions that are ancient by 2022. I believe the Trezor hack utilized a 2016 firmware; that would be 6 years ago now. I also explicitly mentioned that I'd prefer a HW wallet with secure element over a laptop when it comes to physical attacks.

The way to exploit the trezor one is the same for the last version, both can not be fixed.

That doesn't require a bug in Bitcoin Core. Assuming the same attacker model (access to the device for a reasonable, but equal amount of time), he'll just need to pull the HDD out of the laptop, while he'd have to perform a pretty advanced low-level hardware attack on the hardware wallet and might not pull it off in time for the owner to notice the loss, restore the seed and move the funds.

That completley goes out of the point, the bug was in ledger software making to loose funds because of change, so again, I do not imagine this kind of "bugs" happening in the most reviewed client such as Bitcoin Core

Source? And even if they did exist, as you say: it would be pretty complicated. Probably buying you enough time to move your funds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3f1zNpzINY
And check their blog for more info how technique was improved recently.

Well first, you can put in a passphrase on a hardware wallet as well, so that's not an argument. And while you say more attacks will be developed, also better SE chips will be developed. It's a cat-and-mouse game and the attacker is always going to be a step behind. Until now, even the oldest of secure elements used in hardware wallets are secure, to the best of my knowledge.

So now we assume that if HW is seized can be compromised, so let's add a passphrase, if you add a secure  one entering will be so tedious in some models or nearly impossible to be easy of use, and in other HW you will have to type with the PC which is not a safe practice.

Again BS: falling for phishing sites and giving away your seed words isn't due to the wallet being a HW wallet. That can happen with literally any wallet. How can this seriously be considered an argument against hardware wallets?
Or is it more leaning into whataboutism such as: 'Well, attacks that a HW wallet can't protect you against, do exist, so they're useless'?

There are reasons against hardware wallets, but the ones you present are so weak, it's ridiculous.

Falling for scams is not HW fault, what I just said is that someone educated is less likely to fall for it, I do not see how ridiculous is this statement.

To store several copies of the wallet.dat you'll need several airgapped devices. If you store them all on the same device it's as good as having no backup at all.

Yes correct, several devices.

Given full physical access and sufficient expertise the seed can be extracted from certain Trezor models, but AFAIK no such attacks have been successfully mounted on Ledger devices. Feel free to bring me up to date in case there's been any successful seed extractions from Ledger devices recently.

Recently I am not aware no, old ledger models yes but since nano X not that I am aware.

I guess you're referring to paper wallets? Since hardware wallets are commonly deterministic it's technically not possible to lose funds to unknown change addresses (though if you have any more info on that I'd love to hear it).

That was on ledger, in version 0.13 if not wrong. Just search ledger lost funds chane address, you will find all information about it.

Seeds are also used by Bitcoin Core and other software wallets so that doesn't make a difference. Except, a lot of phishing sites ask for private keys directly rather than the seed, which for a regular user is impossible to obtain from the hardware wallet directly.

Pishing sites use to ask mnemonic seed, Bitcoin Core uses bip32 and backup is a wallet.dat, so there is no mnemonic words to backup.

* The average Joe will not save 400+GB on his HDD. He doesn't understand pruning, he doesn't want to wait days for the initial sync and doesn't understand why should he download such amount of data.
* The average Joe probably has Windows or mobile phone he wants to use Bitcoin with.
* The average Joe is not tech savvy and he would make mistakes if we would advise him use cold storage. I've seen case when one was claiming he has cold storage which he connects to the internet when he send transactions.
  (Yes, he got his money stolen by some malware/exploit).

Bitcoin core is great, but it's not for everybody.
Bitcoin core, if used as hot wallet, is as vulnerable as any hot wallet..

You are right, maybe I was wrong assuming that average Joe would be interested in learning more or could have concerns about delegating security.

If computer is compromised yes, it will not be safe, however I was referring in to use bitcoin core offline.

You don't see the average PC user do this, right? The average user who gets confused when the internet icon has moved sure can't handle this. And even if they can do it, it's a lot of work for making a transaction. That's okay if you do it once a year, it's not okay for daily use.

That was a good one  

[1715599415]

1715599415

[HeRetiK]

Given full physical access and sufficient expertise the seed can be extracted from certain Trezor models, but AFAIK no such attacks have been successfully mounted on Ledger devices. Feel free to bring me up to date in case there's been any successful seed extractions from Ledger devices recently.

Recently I am not aware no, old ledger models yes but since nano X not that I am aware.

Source? I'm genuinely curious and I'm finding nothing on that matter.

I guess you're referring to paper wallets? Since hardware wallets are commonly deterministic it's technically not possible to lose funds to unknown change addresses (though if you have any more info on that I'd love to hear it).

That was on ledger, in version 0.13 if not wrong. Just search ledger lost funds chane address, you will find all information about it.

Got any more details? Google yields nothing and it must have been a different version than 0.13 since no such version exists in Ledger's release history.

[nc50lc]

That was on ledger, in version 0.13 if not wrong. Just search ledger lost funds chane address, you will find all information about it.

Got any more details? Google yields nothing and it must have been a different version than 0.13 since no such version exists in Ledger's release history.

Adding quotation marks to "change address" yields related results, specially these:

• https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/ho5spn/update_missing_funds_after_sending_btc_funds_sent/ (solved)
• https://github.com/LedgerHQ/ledger-live-mobile/issues/993

However, it's more of a client issue (Ledger Live) than the hardware wallet itself, fund is safe all along.

[larry_vw_1955]

That requires the laptop to be shut down when getting into attacker's hands.

If it's on, you can just freeze the RAM and get the keys out.

hopefully someone would have a security protocol such that it was not possible for someone else to gain access to their laptop when it was turned on. a security protocol is more than just saying "i'm encrypting my laptop hard drive. done.". it could encompass other things too. freezing RAM i never hear of that but i think you can just encrypt the ram.

I also don't know that everyone running core has full disk encryption turned on.

we're talking about an individual with a sizeable amount of bitcoin right?

[LoyceV]

i think you can just encrypt the ram.

There's no point in encrypting RAM: to use it, the same RAM needs to have the decryption key.

I just thought of an even easier protection against this: get a laptop with RAM soldered to the mainboard. No way someone's going to freeze it and desolder at the same time.

[n0nce]

Sure seed plate is not needed, but that is the recommendations I use to see. Why not when using a latptop? Because with bitcoin core you just backup a wallet.dat

And backing up a file is less prone to errors and cheaper than backing up words on paper or steel washers?

You'd advise to do backups; sure, you can do that. But reliability of laptop storage would mean you might be looking at replacing that crappy old laptop HDD short time after setting it up, so having to buy a new one (or upgrade to SSD) will again cost you time and money to install, set up and restore. Lots of hassle.

Backups can be made in USB Flash Drive, DVD, SD Cards etc

Do you read my replies in full? I said when your HDD fails, you'll need to replace it. You can't just run off of your DVD backup. USB drive could work, but the performance will be bad; they don't hold indefinitely and 1 USB drive is at least 5 bucks while you can make a paper backup for a few cents.

Not 'many of them can be hacked easily'. The hacks that were possible, weren't too simple to perform (took multiple hours & good equipment + knowledge) and they were only on hardware wallets of the 'first generation' (without secure element) and on firmware versions that are ancient by 2022. I believe the Trezor hack utilized a 2016 firmware; that would be 6 years ago now. I also explicitly mentioned that I'd prefer a HW wallet with secure element over a laptop when it comes to physical attacks.

The way to exploit the trezor one is the same for the last version, both can not be fixed.

Again: do you even read? Both have no secure element. You're literally talking without having a clue.

That doesn't require a bug in Bitcoin Core. Assuming the same attacker model (access to the device for a reasonable, but equal amount of time), he'll just need to pull the HDD out of the laptop, while he'd have to perform a pretty advanced low-level hardware attack on the hardware wallet and might not pull it off in time for the owner to notice the loss, restore the seed and move the funds.

That completley goes out of the point, the bug was in ledger software making to loose funds because of change, so again, I do not imagine this kind of "bugs" happening in the most reviewed client such as Bitcoin Core
[/quote]
Again, when using a PC, it's not only running Core; also lots of other software that can have bugs, which gives an attacker access to Bitcoin Core, e.g. by exploiting something in the Linux kernel. Hardware wallets don't run an OS, so the attack surface is much smaller.

Source? And even if they did exist, as you say: it would be pretty complicated. Probably buying you enough time to move your funds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3f1zNpzINY
And check their blog for more info how technique was improved recently.

I don't have time right now to watch videos, and this 'hacker movie' style make it appear pretty cringe and untrustworthy, but in the first few seconds they say that it's very difficult and requires lots of very sophisticated equipment and experience. That's what I said (if you bothered to read, which apparently you don't).
If you also take a look at how laptop HDDs are read out, you will quickly notice it's much easier and quicker, and even a cold boot attack will be easier to do than this.

Well first, you can put in a passphrase on a hardware wallet as well, so that's not an argument. And while you say more attacks will be developed, also better SE chips will be developed. It's a cat-and-mouse game and the attacker is always going to be a step behind. Until now, even the oldest of secure elements used in hardware wallets are secure, to the best of my knowledge.

So now we assume that if HW is seized can be compromised, so let's add a passphrase, if you add a secure  one entering will be so tedious in some models or nearly impossible to be easy of use, and in other HW you will have to type with the PC which is not a safe practice.

If someone doesn't use the passphrase, it's their fault, not the hardware wallet's fault. Only because on some models it's tedious, doesn't mean it must be so on all of them. For instance on my Foundation Passport it's very easy and quick to do. We're talking about the general concept of hardware wallets here; and the fact is that they're just more secure. Sure, something could be more tedious or whatnot; but it's not inherent to the concept. You could make a huge hardware wallet with a full-sized keyboard but running Passport code and with a Passport PCB in it.

Falling for scams is not HW fault, what I just said is that someone educated is less likely to fall for it, I do not see how ridiculous is this statement.

Because you're talking about arguments against hardware wallets and bringing up that people may enter the seed into a phishing webpage. They can do that with literally any wallet.

To store several copies of the wallet.dat you'll need several airgapped devices. If you store them all on the same device it's as good as having no backup at all.

Yes correct, several devices.

Do you trust to be able to keep multiple USB and DVD drives safe from damage (water, fire, rubble) as well as physical deterioration over time? Data rot.

i think you can just encrypt the ram.

There's no point in encrypting RAM: to use it, the same RAM needs to have the decryption key.

I just thought of an even easier protection against this: get a laptop with RAM soldered to the mainboard. No way someone's going to freeze it and desolder at the same time.

That's why I recommended MacBooks Soldered RAM and SSD. I believe on the latest ones with M1... chip, the storage and RAM is even within the SoC actually.

[TracaChang]

Source? I'm genuinely curious and I'm finding nothing on that matter.

For seed extraction I thought the old versions were vulnerable to Oled side channel  (ledger was vulnerable but not critical) not allowing seed extraction.

The charlatan has a great blog and he listed all hacks, if you want to check, here is the link:
https://thecharlatan.ch/List-Of-Hardware-Wallet-Hacks/

[dkbit98]

I am asking this question since whenever I see someone asking about how to store bitcoin, all the answers I read is buy a HW, but I rarely see someone advising to just use Bitcoin Core... the most reviewed and secure client?

You are comparing apples and oranges here, and Bitcoin Core is not viable option for most newbies.
Most of them can't wait for hours and days for blockchain download and sync and they don't care at all about running full node.
If you recommend someone new to use Bitcoin Core he would say that it's slow and maybe he would never again use BTC.

I do understand that there is a lot of marketing involved and they want to sell it, but in reality what offers HW vs Bitcoin Core?

I don't care about marketing gimmicks of some hardware wallets, but they can offer nice balance of security and usability.
Good hardware wallets can be open source, air-gapped, offline devices that can be used for storing seed words and signing transactions.
Bitcoin Core need internet connection to work properly.

At the end what are we doing extra? Some air gaped wallets like coldcard we create the unsigned tx, copy to SD Card, sign with the device, and bring back to the online PC to broadcast. We are doing exactly the same thing or can be even more since if we don't use it directly with Bitcoin Core and instead we use electrum, we will need also need to have a server like electrs which makes the bridge between Bitcoin Core and electrum.

I don't like coldcard wallet after they changed their license and stop being open source, so I don't recommend them, but you are nor mixing Electrum SPV wallet and Bitcoin Core.
I honestly don't understand the point you want to make with your comment here.
Nobody is forcing you to use hardware wallets and they are not needed, if you have offline computer device with Electrum wallet.

[larry_vw_1955]

There's no point in encrypting RAM: to use it, the same RAM needs to have the decryption key.

apparently there's methods to bypassing the ram and storing the decryption keys in cpu so what you're saying isn't true but anyhow. maybe only hardcore linux geeks can do that.

I just thought of an even easier protection against this: get a laptop with RAM soldered to the mainboard. No way someone's going to freeze it and desolder at the same time.

now you're talking! 

[TracaChang]

I just thought of an even easier protection against this: get a laptop with RAM soldered to the mainboard. No way someone's going to freeze it and desolder at the same time.

now you're talking!  

That is a great advice!

Another thing would be to use the dedicated offline PC with tails, as far as I know it is not vulnerable to a cold boot attack since RAM is overwritten after shutting it down (assuming PC was not previously compromised).

[nullama]

~snip~

So Bitcoin Core allows to do the same thing, most people have an old pc that they do not use, they can just install bitcoin core, generate a wallet, export descriptors to the online PC (the daily use PC), there you create a watch-only wallet, import descriptors and you will have a functional watch wallet (allowing to create new receiving addresses and create unsigned transactions) after a transaction is created you just copy the psbt file in a USB flash drive, bring to the offline PC, sign and bring back to the online PC to broadcast.

~snip~

Let me know your thoughts.

Basically a hardware wallet is a product, ready to use, with a company that can provide support for newbies. You don't need a hardware wallet, but it's easier to use for people in general. Bitcoin literally started with Bitcoin Core. Hardware wallets were created later on, for people that didn't want to deal with the setup.

You can of course just have an offline pc (A raspberry pi Zero is ideal for this as it doesn't have any networking hardware) and run Electrum in it. PSBTs can even be transferred using a webcam through QR codes, it's pretty cool. But this is a DIY solution, which is not ideal for everyone.

[n0nce]

~snip~

So Bitcoin Core allows to do the same thing, most people have an old pc that they do not use, they can just install bitcoin core, generate a wallet, export descriptors to the online PC (the daily use PC), there you create a watch-only wallet, import descriptors and you will have a functional watch wallet (allowing to create new receiving addresses and create unsigned transactions) after a transaction is created you just copy the psbt file in a USB flash drive, bring to the offline PC, sign and bring back to the online PC to broadcast.

~snip~

Let me know your thoughts.

Basically a hardware wallet is a product, ready to use, with a company that can provide support for newbies. You don't need a hardware wallet, but it's easier to use for people in general. Bitcoin literally started with Bitcoin Core. Hardware wallets were created later on, for people that didn't want to deal with the setup.

You can of course just have an offline pc (A raspberry pi Zero is ideal for this as it doesn't have any networking hardware) and run Electrum in it. PSBTs can even be transferred using a webcam through QR codes, it's pretty cool. But this is a DIY solution, which is not ideal for everyone.

I've got to repeat myself, but let's not forget that there's a big difference in attack surface between an embedded device with secure element versus a full PC (Raspberry Pi counts as well) without secure chip and probably even without secure boot (old laptops, Raspberry), possibly even with outdated BIOSes that might be full of holes like a good Swiss cheese.

I'll leave this article as a very current example of a severe BIOS bug:
https://thehackernews.com/2022/03/new-dell-bios-bugs-affect-millions-of.html

Of course, you can have also Linux kernel bugs, library bugs, and the list goes on - as well as cold boot attacks and everything I mentioned. On a hardware wallet, you have the SoC, the firmware, and that's basically it. There's much less code to audit and keep secure & updated than on a full PC. Like, if you're really worried, it's realistic to read the whole codebase of a hardware wallet, but it's impossible for one person to read through all the code that runs on an airgapped 'old laptop wallet' or a SeedSigner. This would include kernel and all libraries and packages.

[nullama]

~snip~
I've got to repeat myself, but let's not forget that there's a big difference in attack surface between an embedded device with secure element versus a full PC (Raspberry Pi counts as well) without secure chip and probably even without secure boot (old laptops, Raspberry), possibly even with outdated BIOSes that might be full of holes like a good Swiss cheese.

I'll leave this article as a very current example of a severe BIOS bug:
https://thehackernews.com/2022/03/new-dell-bios-bugs-affect-millions-of.html

Of course, you can have also Linux kernel bugs, library bugs, and the list goes on - as well as cold boot attacks and everything I mentioned. On a hardware wallet, you have the SoC, the firmware, and that's basically it. There's much less code to audit and keep secure & updated than on a full PC. Like, if you're really worried, it's realistic to read the whole codebase of a hardware wallet, but it's impossible for one person to read through all the code that runs on an airgapped 'old laptop wallet' or a SeedSigner. This would include kernel and all libraries and packages.

Yeah, that's fair and I agree with the issues that a PC or Raspberry Pi bring to the table. I'll start by saying that there's of course not a single best way of doing this, these are all security "guidelines" and no system is 100% secure.

But you're missing one point, which is that you need physical access to the device. To have physical access to it you need to first notice it, and a hardware wallet is pretty obviously a device containing money, so the chances are that an attacker will grab it and try to hack it. A raspberry pi or an old computer laying around is way less tempting in the eyes of an attacker.

[n0nce]

But you're missing one point, which is that you need physical access to the device. To have physical access to it you need to first notice it, and a hardware wallet is pretty obviously a device containing money, so the chances are that an attacker will grab it and try to hack it. A raspberry pi or an old computer laying around is way less tempting in the eyes of an attacker.

That's a good point! This is where something like Ledger is actually doing a really good job, since they literally look like USB drives with a random branding on it for the average person.

I do believe we need more designs like this in the future; one possibility would even be to fit a hardware wallet into a cheap smartphone casing. That would really blend in well. Sure, not everyone has two smartphones, but I've seen that in the past and it would literally allow you to sign transactions in plain sight without much suspicion.

[mikeywith]

Sure, not everyone has two smartphones.

Get Sirin Labs Finney or HTC Exodus and then you won't need the casing nor the extra phone, I don't think they are anywhere near cheap tho.

it would literally allow you to sign transactions in plain sight without much suspicion.

I know some of you guys are super paranoid and I understand why one would want top security for all wallets they use, however, I personally don't think I need that much security for a wallet I am going to be using in front of other people in the first place, just a phone wallet on my phone would do.

a hardware wallet is pretty obviously a device containing money, so the chances are that an attacker will grab it and try to hack it. A raspberry pi or an old computer laying around is way less tempting in the eyes of an attacker.

Assuming we all agree that nobody should be bringing their hw wallet with them for a walk, then we can only assume that someone will break into your house, if that person knows you own crypto and you are being targeted, they will take everything that has a semiconductor in it (hopefully they will leave the fridge alone), now if that person doesn't know anything about crypto, I am pretty sure they will be more tempted to steal the old PC than something that looks like a USB drive.


As far as the OP goes, I am not sure where does the assumption of everyone having a spare PC comes from and thus I don't think that should be used an argument, now besides the extra physical securities that any decent hw has over your old PC, is the ability to hide it and move it once needed, if the building catches fire, or some other country decides to invade your country and you have to flee home, it would be a lot easier to grab that hw and run.

also, should I need to hide my funds at any given point, I am pretty sure I can swallow my hw or even shove it up my arse if I had to, not sure I can do that with a full tower PC. :Dd

[larry_vw_1955]

also, should I need to hide my funds at any given point, I am pretty sure I can swallow my hw or even shove it up my arse if I had to, not sure I can do that with a full tower PC. :Dd

if you swallowed your hardware wallet you just traded one problem for another one 

[mikeywith]

if you swallowed your hardware wallet you just traded one problem for another one 

Probably just a painful surgical procedure, but at least the thieves won't be able to find it, of course, you should have your seeds stored in another place just in case the stomach acid damages all those chips, either way, the implications will be a lot worse if you try to eat your laptop while someone is breaking into your house.

[larry_vw_1955]

if you swallowed your hardware wallet you just traded one problem for another one 

Probably just a painful surgical procedure, but at least the thieves won't be able to find it, of course, you should have your seeds stored in another place just in case the stomach acid damages all those chips, either way, the implications will be a lot worse if you try to eat your laptop while someone is breaking into your house.

imagine going through all that and then finding out the hospital was required to examine your usb hard drive. by examine i mean hook it up to a computer and take a look at what's on it. hopefully you encrypted it.

[LoyceV]

But you're missing one point, which is that you need physical access to the device. To have physical access to it you need to first notice it, and a hardware wallet is pretty obviously a device containing money, so the chances are that an attacker will grab it and try to hack it. A raspberry pi or an old computer laying around is way less tempting in the eyes of an attacker.

By the time "an attacker" has physical access to any hardware you have lying around, you have a problem already. And a small hardware wallet can be much harder to find than a large computer.

This is where something like Ledger is actually doing a really good job, since they literally look like USB drives

Of course, none of that helps if Ledger leaks millions of addresses where their hardware wallet can be found.... And that's really the biggest concern I have buying anything dedicated to Bitcoin: it can make you a target.

one possibility would even be to fit a hardware wallet into a cheap smartphone casing. That would really blend in well. Sure, not everyone has two smartphones, but I've seen that in the past and it would literally allow you to sign transactions in plain sight without much suspicion.

On the other hand, making it look like a smartphone makes it more likely to get stolen than if it looks like a USB-stick.

I know some of you guys are super paranoid and I understand why one would want top security for all wallets they use, however, I personally don't think I need that much security for a wallet I am going to be using in front of other people in the first place, just a phone wallet on my phone would do.

Maybe it's not that likely to happen, just like $5 wrench attacks on debit cards don't happen often, even though those cards can often access a decent amount of money.

[PrivacyG]

So many of you guys talking about technical stuff yet the answer is for me so much simpler than that.  Using a Hardware Wallet is more convenient.  And since almost everyone is a lazy butt choosing convenience over utility, there we go.

Seriously now.  I can not imagine myself carrying an old airgapped computer with me on a trip.  I can not imagine myself doing the signing and all of that using two separate computers in a hotel.  I would rather carry around a Hardware Wallet instead and use that one safely.  This is why I think they are worth the cost.

There are many drawbacks but also many aspects I like.  Drawbacks being you have so much more control over your data with an airgapped cold storage than a Hardware Wallet provides you.  I could pop up Electrum on a Tails and sign a single transaction without the server knowing all the UTXO's I own.  Hardware Wallets are not like that, unless you use a random Passphrase for your transaction but then you have to plug in your Hardware Wallet with the main Passphrase first and send the required amount to one of the random Passphrase's public keys which again means less privacy.  Offline airgapped cold storage gives you more control.  Sign the transaction, broadcast it and shut down Tails.  All the other addresses in your cold storage are now unknown to the server.

Aspects I like.  You can put that damn thing in your pocket and securely move Bitcoins around in the middle of the Ocean, long as you have data connection.  You can toss it inside your pocket and even if you ever lose it, nobody would be able to steal from it unless you dropped a Trezor with balances on the main account without Passphrase security or identify you by inspecting it unless you left fingerprints on it and the one picking it up is some FBI agent.

Now that I thought about pros and cons, I am starting to see this in a similar way there is cash and card for Fiat.  You can pull a $50 bill out of your pocket without anyone knowing how many others you have in your other pockets or wallet, if any.  It is however easier to carry around a card with $50,000 on it than it is to carry $50,000 cash on you.  You can toss that card right inside your sock and carelessly walk around.  But all of this is at the expense of your privacy.

You see.  Even if there is Bitcoin Core and Electrum, Hardware Wallets come handy in some situations.  The best thing of all this is you can have a Do It Yourself storage using older devices you already own or you can have a Hardware Wallet instead and make things more convenient for yourself.  You have the choice, it is amazing.

But if you are in a huge hurry to move your coins, you better not have your funds on an old offline computer as you may end up throwing all of that through the window.  Been in a hurry before with an old airgapped computer and it was pure hell.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG