CEX ruins the true value of Bitcoin

[romero121]

At times due to the rules and regulations of certain countries, CEX used to ruin the value of bitcoin. This means these exchanges completely outlaw the reason for which people prefer bitcoin as well as the reason for which bitcoin is being innovated. Coinbase, one among the leading exchange in terms of volume have come up with requirements of recipient information for crypto transfers from users in Canada, Singapore and Japan.

• For Canada the limit is $1000CAD, fow which it requires the recipient information. This new change comes to effect from April 4, and this change is with regards to the Canada's FINTRAC rules.
• For Singapore users, for each and every transaction it requires the recipient information along with country of residence. This comes to effect from April 1, change is following the Singaporean regulations.
• With Japan complete information of the recipient name, address and country of residence is a must. This is according to the English translation of rules established by the Japan Cryptocurrency Trading Association (JVCEA). This will take effect on April 1, said the coinbase.

Recipient Information Required for Crypto Transfers From Users in Canada, Singapore and Japan

We aren't compelled to make use of these exchanges, it is possible to use the non custodial wallets. However this Exchanges might turn to be similar service providers of banks in future while sticking to the rules and regulations.

[franky1]

the issue is simple
if you want to use any service that handles fiat in exchange for another currency(any currency) that service has to register as a Money service business, thus need to create a policy to KYC their customers and monitor for AML and other criminal usage

just because coinbase also handles bitcoin. does not mean coinbase can avoid its fiat requirements/obligations

what you will also find is that if there is any service offering DEX, where fiat is also involved, governments can set up 'honeypot' traps to get evidence that an individual is running an exchange business without a licence. and punish them.
its happened many times with 'localbitcoin' users

so dont think that DEX is default outside of the jurisdiction of fiat laws. because those individuals handling exchanges fiat for a fee will need to register or try extra hard to hide their identity(kind of hard when doing bank transfers)

.. currently exchanges that just do 'swaps' of crypto-to-crypto dont have to abide by money laws. but that may soon change especially when more and more governments are legalising bitcoin as a asset currency, rather than a merchants good/product

yep. by states offering the ability to pay taxes in bitcoin, is a round-about way to slip in bitcoin as 'money' to then gain jurisdiction to then set more laws

[Darker45]

What is interesting, however, is that despite people supporting Bitcoin they are also supporting centralized exchanges and custodial wallets and all things that are essentially against the Bitcoin standard. So perhaps we could ask whether the people really prefer complete independence. For many years, DExes are left behind by CExes in terms of volume. Moreover, despite compulsory KYC hassles and failing a number of times in the process, centralized exchanges are not losing popularity. Is it only because DExes don't support fiat? Or is it simply because CExes are generally better? Or perhaps people aren't really interested get out of fiat altogether?

[franky1]

Moreover, despite compulsory KYC hassles and failing a number of times in the process, centralized exchanges are not losing popularity. Is it only because DExes don't support fiat? Or is it simply because CExes are generally better? Or perhaps people aren't really interested get out of fiat altogether?

CEX are proper businesses set up with proper physical legal addresses which you can file law suits against should they wrong you.
DEX are random individuals hiding away behind tor and proxy and virtual mail/PO Boxes which if they should wrong you, your just lost and no way to claw back anything

CEX are also easy to find on the internet, and have had years of reputation.
DEX are hard to find and even harder to trust

..

For many years, DExes are left behind by CExes in terms of volume.

dont worry about volume
when an exchange does a arbitrage. it may only have say 100btc involved. but when it sidechain swaps to another exchange, plays on that exchange and then tethers back to then buy coin and repeat every minute. that 1 allotment of 100btc can be seen as being 10,000btc volume due to arbitraging 100 times a day. even though its only 100btc being spend repeatedly


its like looking at bitcoin network 'btc transaction value' per day.
when people re-spend the same allotment of coins by spamming the network EVERY BLOCK that single coin. appears as 144 coins a day.
in short.. volume is meaningless as it does not explain who/how much//how often individuals actually spend individual funds

even things like exchanges just moving funds from cold to hotwallet where its not 'spending' but just organising its own wallet holdings. it appears on the network as thousands of coin 'volume'
EG the 'whale alert' twitter bot keeps announcing whale spends of thousands of coins.. where reality is its just an exchange organising its custodial funds.

so dont put too much thought into the value of the volume statistic

[Poker Player]

The issue is simple and has been discussed many times before. It is the reverse of how the OP puts it.  If Bitcoin is mass adopted and someday reaches $1M in price it will be in part because of CEX and custodial wallets, not the other way around.

I would qualify and say that CEX ruins the original idea of bitcoin to be a P2P electronic cash system, but there are inventions that evolve and succeed beyond the original idea of its creator.

Those who want to use Bitcoin with maximum room for privacy will be able to do so, but they will be in the minority, and at least that's the way it is today.

Mass adoption will come together with governments regulations and CEX, and not against them, despite the original idea of Bitcoin.

[Imran232]

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In this case, we can't blame any of the cex. Because they are providing service as a company, and if they want to provide services, they should abide by the rules of the government. Otherwise, they are able to provide any service.First of all, they do not have any dex, meaning that they do not have any information about users. Because of kyc, all cex have a user's complete information.Why can't the government get the information from Cex as well?So in that case, we can only blame CeX. We also have to blame the government. Though I am also a cex user and it's badly needed because of the trading fees. So I can't blame them for ruining it; they're trying to provide services, but they have to deal with the government. It's what I believed. Others' opinions might be different. Thank you.

[mk4]

People like to demonize Coinbase a lot(and sometimes rightfully so), but let's not pretend that they or exchanges in general actually wanted to place stricter measures in terms of manual data collection. 9 out of 10 times chances are these exchanges are just forced to do so.

[jossiel]

Well, the reality is they have really played a big role to the adoption as they are giving service to everyone that eases the conversion of bitcoin into fiat.

It is already there and we can no longer pull over and reverse it that they have grown together with bitcoin. There is still the main purpose of bitcoin but when it has come to the point of exchanging it, there goes the cexs and many of us in here don't mind the requirements as long as we get our money converted from btc.

[virasog]

What is interesting, however, is that despite people supporting Bitcoin they are also supporting centralized exchanges and custodial wallets and all things that are essentially against the Bitcoin standard. So perhaps we could ask whether the people really prefer complete independence. For many years, DExes are left behind by CExes in terms of volume. Moreover, despite compulsory KYC hassles and failing a number of times in the process, centralized exchanges are not losing popularity. Is it only because DExes don't support fiat? Or is it simply because CExes are generally better? Or perhaps people aren't really interested get out of fiat altogether?

People want to use DExes but the decentralized exchanges lack a lot of feature which centralized exchanges offer. If you use uniswap, you will have to pay too much fee  while people can trade the same tokens on centralized exchanges with minimal fee. Pancakeswap has no issue of high fee but often there are liquidity problems. Above all, none of the decentralized exchanges offer stop limit and future trading , margin trading etc. Unless these decentralized exchanges offer all benefits, i don't see people shifting from the centralized exchanges.

[cryptoaddictchie]

so dont think that DEX is default outside of the jurisdiction of fiat laws. because those individuals handling exchanges fiat for a fee will need to register or try extra hard to hide their identity(kind of hard when doing bank transfers)

They can only play safe when they are doing dex that arent connected to fiat. Obviously these are anon guys. But those dex with fiat conversion will likely to follow what cex is doing to avoid such harsh law of crypto.

Well, the reality is they have really played a big role to the adoption as they are giving service to everyone that eases the conversion of bitcoin into fiat.

Thats true. However some cex doing the opposite and has plenty of issue thats why others are hesitant with this and also we can assume that some whales prefer to have fiat without being noticed and thats where dex comes in. Anyway countries have no other choice but to do some of this since some incidents of hacking and doing money laundering has been happening widely on crypto just to avoid the precious taxes.

[Wind_FURY]

What is interesting, however, is that despite people supporting Bitcoin they are also supporting centralized exchanges and custodial wallets and all things that are essentially against the Bitcoin standard. So perhaps we could ask whether the people really prefer complete independence. For many years, DExes are left behind by CExes in terms of volume. Moreover, despite compulsory KYC hassles and failing a number of times in the process, centralized exchanges are not losing popularity. Is it only because DExes don't support fiat? Or is it simply because CExes are generally better? Or perhaps people aren't really interested get out of fiat altogether?

Because it isn't as necessary for the users to use just a DEX, like BISQ, but I believe if we lose more exchanges to the governments' demanding requirements, DEX trading will become the first choice for many users.

Plus don't believe those trolls who spreads misinformation that DEX, or their developers are "random individuals" hiding away. Decentralized Exchanges are simply solutions to a problem.

[pooya87]

You are wrong because value of bitcoin doesn't stem from how easily you can trade it! But the real value of bitcoin stems from how decentralized and censorship resistant it is as a currency or a payment system. This principle does NOT change for bitcoin no matter how much restrictions are placed in some centralized third party service that works with bitcoin.

[franky1]

You are wrong because value of bitcoin doesn't stem from how easily you can trade it! But the real value of bitcoin stems from how decentralized and censorship resistant it is as a currency or a payment system. This principle does NOT change for bitcoin no matter how much restrictions are placed in some centralized third party service that works with bitcoin.

bitcoins 'values' (features and benefits) is different from bitcoins financial value
and bitcoins financial value is different than bitcoins price

so lets get things fully correct
bitcoins values(features and benefits) have changed alot. it has actually become less of a system for the unbanked to use for daily purposes of buying food or getting paid a wage(common currency), and instead become more of an investment asset


the financial VALUE is a number that sits below the price. you wont find what the financial value is on any CEX or DEX. its made up from the bottomline support that pretty much everyone would refuse to sell below because no matter what method of acquiring bitcoin you can find, those selling wont sell below it.
thus the main way to work out the financial value is from the cheapest mining cost.
because if no one can mine for any less. everyone would be buying coin because its cheaper to buy than to mine.

as for bitcoin price. its actually the CEX that people gauge prices from.
if you look at many DEX and 'localbitcoin' style portals the price is too varied, so no one can ascertain a correct price thats deemed right for the moment.
however CEX allows people to trade at a single price point and also arbitrage between exchanges to balance out the price over many CEX so that most of the CEX platforms follow each other and so people can see a price point and settle on that number as being the market rate.

[cryptoaddictchie]

You are wrong because value of bitcoin doesn't stem from how easily you can trade it! But the real value of bitcoin stems from how decentralized and censorship resistant it is as a currency or a payment system. This principle does NOT change for bitcoin no matter how much restrictions are placed in some centralized third party service that works with bitcoin.

Actually it is. Bitcoin price fly to the moon not because many uses it on the decentralized aspect or peer to peer system. It is flying up to this level  due to simply trading. Centralized market and even whales holding massive bitcoin just to trade it and gains from it isnt it?

The bull run is due to the massive adoption of bitcoin on trading and not how the way it is decentralized and being used. And if we based it on stat even Im not looking on it, Im 100% sure that there are more traders and users who used bitcoin for trading rather than use btc for buying or peer to peer and any other form of decentralized system of btc.

[Kakmakr]

People like to demonize Coinbase a lot(and sometimes rightfully so), but let's not pretend that they or exchanges in general actually wanted to place stricter measures in terms of manual data collection. 9 out of 10 times chances are these exchanges are just forced to do so.

Well some of them choose to do so, because it fits their new business model... (Circle)   These exchanges know exactly what they are doing and they usually start with "low" requirements for small traders, because they know those users are the bulk of their income.

So, later..... when the user base grow, it will catch the attention of the regulators and they have to start to adhere to all the KYC/AML regulations. (The regulators are not too worried about the small operators, but once they step up into the big leagues.. they are forced to adhere to the same regulations as the big boys) 

[Jawhead999]

Above all, none of the decentralized exchanges offer stop limit and future trading , margin trading etc. Unless these decentralized exchanges offer all benefits, i don't see people shifting from the centralized exchanges.

Everyday in centralized exchanges do have sell orders, this means everyday someone want to sell his coins and we can assume most of Bitcoin's daily volumes is traders. Trader will need many features to help their decision of their analysis. It's hard to implemented such features to decentralized exchanges because:
1. trade in DEX isn't automatic, you need to send and confirm, while stop loss is automatic.
2. future trading and margin trading would possible when the liquidity is high.

[jossiel]

Well, the reality is they have really played a big role to the adoption as they are giving service to everyone that eases the conversion of bitcoin into fiat.

Thats true. However some cex doing the opposite and has plenty of issue thats why others are hesitant with this and also we can assume that some whales prefer to have fiat without being noticed and thats where dex comes in. Anyway countries have no other choice but to do some of this since some incidents of hacking and doing money laundering has been happening widely on crypto just to avoid the precious taxes.

Cexs are going to be more stricter since the eyes of the government is with them and they are being monitored as well.

They are very strict to avoid customers or citizens that could be involved with money laundering. That is why some folks have experienced sudden alarm of being suspected involved to those activities that they are discouraging. And they do that through asking more information and additional kyc.

[cryptoaddictchie]

They are very strict to avoid customers or citizens that could be involved with money laundering. That is why some folks have experienced sudden alarm of being suspected involved to those activities that they are discouraging. And they do that through asking more information and additional kyc.

We cant stopped that since they are being alarmed on those shitty scammers who do money laundering. If there is a way to find those guys before they can continued to use cex for their greed then this is it. Im pretty sure only few would disagree to that. Of course the resistant itself are those scammers hiding on innocence. Some dont want to use the cex for their privacy and we can agree on that but that leaves government no choice for those who arent playing fair ( rugg pull/ scam/ hacked).

[davis196]

We aren't compelled to make use of these exchanges, it is possible to use the non custodial wallets. However this Exchanges might turn to be similar service providers of banks in future while sticking to the rules and regulations.

The centralized crypto exchanges are already kinda similar to banks,when it comes to complying with the laws and regulations set by the authorities.We can't blame them for that.Every registered business has to comply with the laws and regulations,otherwise it will get punished by the authorities.
I guess that we can't have both value and anonymity.We have to sacrifice one or the other.
Complete anonymity means less value,like messing around privacy coins,which are less valuable or using BTC mixers,which are costing you fees and there's always a risk of getting scammed and losing your coins.
A CEX can also scam you,but at least you could hire a lawyer and sue them.

[Findingnemo]

These exchanges has to follow the regulations of government if they want to continue their services so what can we expect from them when the government made them to do it. When you are dealing cryptocurrencies with Fiat the KYC will become unavoidable for sure in the next few years and you know we don't have to convert bitcoin to CAD or USD we can simply use bitcoin as bitcoin itself atleast in the future.