CEX ruins the true value of Bitcoin

[pooya87]

You are wrong because value of bitcoin doesn't stem from how easily you can trade it! But the real value of bitcoin stems from how decentralized and censorship resistant it is as a currency or a payment system. This principle does NOT change for bitcoin no matter how much restrictions are placed in some centralized third party service that works with bitcoin.

Actually it is. Bitcoin price fly to the moon not because many uses it on the decentralized aspect or peer to peer system. It is flying up to this level  due to simply trading. Centralized market and even whales holding massive bitcoin just to trade it and gains from it isnt it?

The bull run is due to the massive adoption of bitcoin on trading and not how the way it is decentralized and being used. And if we based it on stat even Im not looking on it, Im 100% sure that there are more traders and users who used bitcoin for trading rather than use btc for buying or peer to peer and any other form of decentralized system of btc.

I disagree. Trading alone can not ensure price rise. There are a lot of markets, like penny stocks or even the shitcoin market that people trade in a lot but they can't gain the same value as bitcoin. At the end of the day it is the utilities that bitcoin provide that makes people "buy" more bitcoin and increase the price regardless of what traders are doing day to day.

it has actually become less of a system for the unbanked to use for daily purposes of buying food or getting paid a wage(common currency), and instead become more of an investment asset

That's because your vision is limited. You are only focusing on the fact that the number of people who see bitcoin as an investment has grown but you ignore that people in other groups (the unbanked and those seeking financial sovereignty) has also grown.
In fact if you look closer you can see that many of those who are trading bitcoin are doing it because they want to increase the amount of bitcoin "currency" they own.

[cryptoaddictchie]

I disagree. Trading alone can not ensure price rise. There are a lot of markets, like penny stocks or even the shitcoin market that people trade in a lot but they can't gain the same value as bitcoin. At the end of the day it is the utilities that bitcoin provide that makes people "buy" more bitcoin and increase the price regardless of what traders are doing day to day.

Im pretty sure it is. Its the whale trading game make it move just accept it. If they wanted it move down, they will do it, regardless the adoption and its all about the gains and profits from trading. Utilities of bitcoin, do you think people like Michael Saylor bought in for utilities? You know very well he bought it for profits. I do believe in bitcoin as truly decentralized, but just accept the fate that it is being bought due to investment driven reason. If a whale bitcoin holder ( wanted it down) trust me, utility or not. It will go down, what reason he will do it? Ofcourse trading reason.

Check whales wallet do they used it everyday for utlities? I dont think so. But Im pretty confident that they will move their holding basef on CHART (trading) not for peer to peer system.

[bayudndy]

It's influenced by many things that lead to these areas being restricted to Coinbase, like the OP's problem, seeing from a 1 CEX perspective, and the effect it has is not too specific. I think users in those regions are still doing well with other vehicles. Obviously, many of the risks from CEX lead to DEX being navigated and favored, but the main issue the OP is talking about is really not so ominous.

[Wind_FURY]

You are wrong because value of bitcoin doesn't stem from how easily you can trade it! But the real value of bitcoin stems from how decentralized and censorship resistant it is as a currency or a payment system. This principle does NOT change for bitcoin no matter how much restrictions are placed in some centralized third party service that works with bitcoin.

Real value != financial value. The same mistake when some people in the forum read "HODL Bitcoin as a hedge", and literally conclude "financial hedge". Because of Bitcoin's underlying nature, it's not just a "financial hedge", it's also a hedge against a group of non-elected people who are trusted by plebs to keep the monetary system in order.

[pooya87]

Im pretty sure it is. Its the whale trading game make it move just accept it.

All I can accept is that to some extent "price" is being decided by traders but the intrinsic value which is always close to the price is decided by the utilities otherwise I can't see how it can be sustained for years.

If they wanted it move down, they will do it,

The important thing is the degree of their power. Can they crash the market to $30k? Of course. Can they crash it to $30? Absolutely not.

Utilities of bitcoin, do you think people like Michael Saylor bought in for utilities?

Obviously. One of the utilities of money is being a store of value, being deflationary makes it an even better SoV.

[kaseygriffin]

At times due to the rules and regulations of certain countries, CEX used to ruin the value of bitcoin. This means these exchanges completely outlaw the reason for which people prefer bitcoin as well as the reason for which bitcoin is being innovated. Coinbase, one among the leading exchange in terms of volume have come up with requirements of recipient information for crypto transfers from users in Canada, Singapore and Japan.
...

Maybe some influence, but I don't think it's too big of an issue in the interest of the majority. Basically, I can still buy BTC or crypto through other CEXs. I don't think it's too big since these are exchanges with many whale sharks and not for ordinary users to easily use, so be more comfortable with your choice.

[tbterryboy]

CEX are already working with the government and the banks to carry out regulations in favour of the government. The regulations that will come in the future is going to be more tight than what we have been seeing for long, which is why it is advisable that people starts making use decentralized exchanges starting from this moment if they don’t want the stress that comes with making use of an organization that will be controlled by the government.

This news has been spreading since earlier this year on the regulation tactics that will be used by centralized exchanges.  even  the chief executive officer of the exchange warned about it. CEX are very much similar to banks and they will be able freeze users account if given such order by the government.

I have been  making use of decentralized wallets and exchange for long now, but even that is not enough, as it requires that every cryptocurrency users will have to switch DEX to keep safe and private. Even if you stay with DEX, people that are making use of CEX are required to give out information about recipients,  which is why everyone has to move to DEX if this is going to work.

[jossiel]

They are very strict to avoid customers or citizens that could be involved with money laundering. That is why some folks have experienced sudden alarm of being suspected involved to those activities that they are discouraging. And they do that through asking more information and additional kyc.

We cant stopped that since they are being alarmed on those shitty scammers who do money laundering. If there is a way to find those guys before they can continued to use cex for their greed then this is it. Im pretty sure only few would disagree to that. Of course the resistant itself are those scammers hiding on innocence. Some dont want to use the cex for their privacy and we can agree on that but that leaves government no choice for those who arent playing fair ( rugg pull/ scam/ hacked).

Well, those that don't want to use cex, that's their personal choice and who knows if they're involved with those shady activities.

I do agree about their way of finding those scammers on their own platforms is the one good thing that we can see with what they do. And as well as finding out hacked funds and stopping it once it started to get into them.

Just like what happened to Binance when a hacker deposited it to them.

[kawetsriyanto]

The centralized crypto exchanges are already kinda similar to banks,when it comes to complying with the laws and regulations set by the authorities.We can't blame them for that.Every registered business has to comply with the laws and regulations,otherwise it will get punished by the authorities.

That's why we call this type of exchange is CEX (Centralized Exchange). If someone wants to use their service, he needs to obey such regulations or rules. They must have the regulations or rules because there is an obligation from the government. CEX is different from DEX, as most of them have offices, they must follow some requirements as a business entity. Their activities are monitored by the government, don't have freedom like DEX. So, it is quite understandable if CEX members must comply with such rules.

CMIIW

[cryptoaddictchie]

The important thing is the degree of their power. Can they crash the market to $30k? Of course. Can they crash it to $30? Absolutely not.

That is something out of hand I guess. Thats totally impossible but we did see bitcoin at cents before, and knowing the market volatility, we could really never know what would happened. Crash to $30 its possible if market decided to.

Obviously. One of the utilities of money is being a store of value, being deflationary makes it an even better SoV.

Yeah but Michael Saylors, obviously referring that utilities as investment. He is a capitalist, and we all knew he invested on bitcoin to gain profits. Store of value is literally a term for him to gain his asset called investment asset.

I do agree about their way of finding those scammers on their own platforms is the one good thing that we can see with what they do. And as well as finding out hacked funds and stopping it once it started to get into them.

Thats prevention of scammers it is. We can assume that those who hate cex, aside from reasoning of privacy could another alibi of scammers but Im not generalizing it since some reallt preserve privacy.

[Ale88]

What is interesting, however, is that despite people supporting Bitcoin they are also supporting centralized exchanges and custodial wallets and all things that are essentially against the Bitcoin standard. So perhaps we could ask whether the people really prefer complete independence. For many years, DExes are left behind by CExes in terms of volume. Moreover, despite compulsory KYC hassles and failing a number of times in the process, centralized exchanges are not losing popularity. Is it only because DExes don't support fiat? Or is it simply because CExes are generally better? Or perhaps people aren't really interested get out of fiat altogether?

It's for several reasons:
- At the beginning how/where would you buy bitcoin? On the street? From some stranger?
- The exchanges offer a certain level of security because they kind of explain you how to activate the 2FA etc
- Are we sure that someone who try to buy/use cryptos for the first time has the knowledge to manage DeFi exchanges and wallets?

I don't think CEXs are the devil, they're a good tool and I like to use them in combination with DeFi.

[Wind_FURY]

What is interesting, however, is that despite people supporting Bitcoin they are also supporting centralized exchanges and custodial wallets and all things that are essentially against the Bitcoin standard. So perhaps we could ask whether the people really prefer complete independence. For many years, DExes are left behind by CExes in terms of volume. Moreover, despite compulsory KYC hassles and failing a number of times in the process, centralized exchanges are not losing popularity. Is it only because DExes don't support fiat? Or is it simply because CExes are generally better? Or perhaps people aren't really interested get out of fiat altogether?

It's for several reasons:
- At the beginning how/where would you buy bitcoin? On the street? From some stranger?
- The exchanges offer a certain level of security because they kind of explain you how to activate the 2FA etc
- Are we sure that someone who try to buy/use cryptos for the first time has the knowledge to manage DeFi exchanges and wallets?

I don't think CEXs are the devil, they're a good tool and I like to use them in combination with DeFi.

They're not, they are a necessity. They're merely facilitators for buyers and sellers to meet, and provide liquidity for the market. But from another viewpoint, exchanges can become very powerful, that can control this new "financial system" too, like banks control legacy systems. A balance is needed, enter decentralized exchanges like BISQ.

[bearexin]

I disagree. Trading alone can not ensure price rise. There are a lot of markets, like penny stocks or even the shitcoin market that people trade in a lot but they can't gain the same value as bitcoin. At the end of the day it is the utilities that bitcoin provide that makes people "buy" more bitcoin and increase the price regardless of what traders are doing day to day.

I also disagree for comparing bitcoin with those shitcoins. Trading is part of what influences the price of bitcoin. The shitcoins they are talking about don’t have up to one quarter of Bitcoins daily trading volume no matter how much you think that they are being traded. So, trading volume have an impact in the price of bitcoin, they contribute a lot to it.

Basically everything we are doing in the bitcoin market is buying and selling. Even if what you did was to buy bitcoin so that you can Hodl it in your wallet while you wait for the value to increase, it is still buying that you have done. At the end when that bitcoin you're holding in your wallet increases in value, you're going to sell it for profit and someone else is going to buy it as well, that’s just how the market keeps moving every day.

[Ale88]

What is interesting, however, is that despite people supporting Bitcoin they are also supporting centralized exchanges and custodial wallets and all things that are essentially against the Bitcoin standard. So perhaps we could ask whether the people really prefer complete independence. For many years, DExes are left behind by CExes in terms of volume. Moreover, despite compulsory KYC hassles and failing a number of times in the process, centralized exchanges are not losing popularity. Is it only because DExes don't support fiat? Or is it simply because CExes are generally better? Or perhaps people aren't really interested get out of fiat altogether?

It's for several reasons:
- At the beginning how/where would you buy bitcoin? On the street? From some stranger?
- The exchanges offer a certain level of security because they kind of explain you how to activate the 2FA etc
- Are we sure that someone who try to buy/use cryptos for the first time has the knowledge to manage DeFi exchanges and wallets?

I don't think CEXs are the devil, they're a good tool and I like to use them in combination with DeFi.

They're not, they are a necessity. They're merely facilitators for buyers and sellers to meet, and provide liquidity for the market. But from another viewpoint, exchanges can become very powerful, that can control this new "financial system" too, like banks control legacy systems. A balance is needed, enter decentralized exchanges like BISQ.

Probably in the future, a close one, big exchanges like Binance, Coinbase and FTX, that are always trying to follow all the different regulations around the world, could even ask and obtain some kind of bank permits, so they'll be able to lend money to people just like banks do nowadays. I see this as a natural evolution of this sector, big banks should really watch their backs because if I were them, I'd be pretty worried.

[Emitdama]

These exchanges has to follow the regulations of government if they want to continue their services so what can we expect from them when the government made them to do it. When you are dealing cryptocurrencies with Fiat the KYC will become unavoidable for sure

I see. The op should not put the blame then to coinbase or to the other centralized exchanges or wallets because it wasn't totally their fault on why they expose a user's identity but it was the order of the government. Those cex also care for the people's privacy and to the reputation of bitcoin but what can they do? they only want to continue their business. They need to think of their selves first before the others so sorry.

in the next few years and you know we don't have to convert bitcoin to CAD or USD we can simply use bitcoin as bitcoin itself atleast in the future.

It is expected that all people will not need fiats anymore in the future because they can use bitcoin directly once bitcoin have been made a legal tender. I think that will make the kyc obsolete as well but for now, we can use dex and p2p if we only want to bypass the centralization and kyc imposed by the governments.

[TimeTeller]

These exchanges has to follow the regulations of government if they want to continue their services so what can we expect from them when the government made them to do it. When you are dealing cryptocurrencies with Fiat the KYC will become unavoidable for sure

I see. The op should not put the blame then to coinbase or to the other centralized exchanges or wallets because it wasn't totally their fault on why they expose a user's identity but it was the order of the government. Those cex also care for the people's privacy and to the reputation of bitcoin but what can they do? they only want to continue their business. They need to think of their selves first before the others so sorry.

in the next few years and you know we don't have to convert bitcoin to CAD or USD we can simply use bitcoin as bitcoin itself atleast in the future.

It is expected that all people will not need fiats anymore in the future because they can use bitcoin directly once bitcoin have been made a legal tender. I think that will make the kyc obsolete as well but for now, we can use dex and p2p if we only want to bypass the centralization and kyc imposed by the governments.

CEXs are also tied with their hands and are only following the laws and regulations towards crypto according to where they are licensed.
As much as possible, these exchanges don't like to get information from their clients but they are bound by the protocols of the government.
If they will not abide those protocols, their business will be in jeopardy and they may stop their operations.
So people or crypto users are also complying just to use the services of exchanges and so with the exchanges to retain their business.
We can't avoid this requirement if we do really want more adoption from legal platforms.

[jossiel]

I do agree about their way of finding those scammers on their own platforms is the one good thing that we can see with what they do. And as well as finding out hacked funds and stopping it once it started to get into them.

Thats prevention of scammers it is. We can assume that those who hate cex, aside from reasoning of privacy could another alibi of scammers but Im not generalizing it since some reallt preserve privacy.

Many are preserving their privacy and they would love to avoid cexs but dexs doesn't have much liquidity at least for the newer ones. Although there are dexs that have good volume but the pairs that they need isn't there.

There's always the pros and cons with them but it's all about where you're comfortable trading with. I guess, we just have to bear the reality not unless they become more extreme with their requirements.

[goldkingcoiner]

CEX is not here to stay. Sorry, centralized boys and girls. Centralized Exchanges are not going to be part of Bitcoin's future. They are just in place currently because we have not found a better way. But we are looking for better ways to make Bitcoin more decentralized. Decentralized Exchanges are the future. Its just a shame that you can't use DeFi with Bitcoin... Yet. But I have full faith in the increasing technology breakthroughs, especially when it comes to Blockchain.

We'll get there.

[Ale88]

CEX is not here to stay. Sorry, centralized boys and girls. Centralized Exchanges are not going to be part of Bitcoin's future. They are just in place currently because we have not found a better way. But we are looking for better ways to make Bitcoin more decentralized. Decentralized Exchanges are the future. Its just a shame that you can't use DeFi with Bitcoin... Yet. But I have full faith in the increasing technology breakthroughs, especially when it comes to Blockchain.

We'll get there.

If we want to accelerate bitcoin adoption, wether we like it or not, CEXs are very useful. What people should understand is that CEXs must be used mainly to deposit fiat, buy whatever you want to buy, and move it to your own personal wallet, don't use the CEX like it's a bank. You say CEXs won't last long, I'm curious to understand why in your opinion companies valued tens and tens of billion should fail/disappear in a market that is growing a lot.

[kawetsriyanto]

CEX is not here to stay. Sorry, centralized boys and girls. Centralized Exchanges are not going to be part of Bitcoin's future.

Why? Do you think CEX won't survive a long time in crypto industry? 
In my country, CEX plays a good role to introduce Bitcoin and crypto as a whole. Without CEX, people in my country probably aren't interested in Bitcoin because they are hard to believe with exchanges like DEX. By the way, Binance, Huobi, KuCoin, and many other top exchanges are CEXs, which means people around the world trust CEX. How can CEX not a part of BTC future, mate?

They are just in place currently because we have not found a better way. But we are looking for better ways to make Bitcoin more decentralized.

What is a better way do you mean? Remove CEX?

Its just a shame that you can't use DeFi with Bitcoin...

It is not a shame, Defi is a choice, NOT a must. You cannot force someone to use Defi or Cefi.
Don't make it be complicated, mate!