CEX ruins the true value of Bitcoin

[Ale88]

I disagree with the OP on the opinion. Bitcoin is for everyone and there are many use cases for it, on DEX, on CEX, on Peer-to-Peer marketplace, gambling sites, etc. Nothing destroys the true value of Bitcoin. Together, they contribute to bring Bitcoin to the world, to result in better adoption. It's more good than harm.

Exactly, that's a huge point that many people forget because they are too extremist. This kind of internal fights are just bad for bitcoin and the cripto world, we are still at the beginning at the end, do you guys prefer someone who buys bitcoin through a CEX or someone who doesn't buy at all? The knowledge of the DEXs etc will follow. It reminds when I talk with vegan friends who are absolutely against people who are "just" 80% vegan, I think 80% is better than 0%, and people just need time for a certain time of transition but this is our world today, we want something 100% and we want it now. It's just stupid for me.

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[stepwilli]

True DEXs, like BISQ, are open source projects licensed under a GPL-like license that makes the project "owned" by the community. If a lead developer leaves, another from the community can take his/her place, like Bitcoin when Satoshi left, or Linux if Linus Torvalds leaves.

The sad part is that we are not really dealing with anything that is getting any better with the DEX in the world. They might be truly decentralized and I am not arguing against that but they are certainly not doing that well neither. I feel like we could definitely see tons of hacks towards decentralized places as well.

I mean billions have been stolen from those places total, in many different chains and that should be enough to scare people. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't trust them, but if you do not trust CEX because it is centralized, doesn't that mean that you shouldn't trust the DEX places because they could get hacked as well?

[Wind_FURY]

True DEXs, like BISQ, are open source projects licensed under a GPL-like license that makes the project "owned" by the community. If a lead developer leaves, another from the community can take his/her place, like Bitcoin when Satoshi left, or Linux if Linus Torvalds leaves.

Problems with Bisq is their low trading volume. So it reveals the fact that not much people actually care about privacy, anonymity and truly DEX. If they care about that, they will use true DEX like Bisq more and will contribute to make trading volume on it much higher.

It's still early ser, plus the current situation doesn't make it very necessary for most of the users to start using DEXs. It's simply not its time yet. But the glass should always be viewed half full. It's like Bitcoin, it's there when you truly need it, and when the situation makes it necessary.

[coupable]

In that future, I'm very confident there will be more, and better BISQ-like decentralized exchanges implemented, and more peer to peer exchanges like LocalBitcoins/HodlHodl. Why? Because it they will be necessary for further development of Bitcoin. Exchanges becoming like banks is deteriorated development.

I absolutely hope as well that in the future we'll have several reliable DEXs, that would be the natural evolution of cryptos. At the same time I think CEXs will still have their market share because this world is going to be so big there everyone can have its own space. It's up to us deciding what to use depending on the situation because if someone wants to cash out, doing it through a regulated exchange with KYC approved for sure is going to be way more simple than simply getting some money from some unknown platform.

The problem with DEXs is that even if the technology is decentralized there is still a single point of failure which are the people that own the DEX, one of the likely reasons why satoshi disappeared was to eliminate this point of failure in bitcoin, so we need another visionary like satoshi that creates a DEX technology but that is willing to leave it behind when the time comes, something which is unlikely to happen as such a person would leave a lot of money over the table by doing a move like that.

So you mean that you're worried about a possible exit scam? That's always a possibility, but let's face the reality taking people like CZ and Sam Bankman-Fried: those people already have tens of billions of dollars, and they're assets are extremely (if not completely) crypto related, so why should someone in their position scam? To eventually get some other billion of dollars while tanking the market and becoming an international criminal? What are they even going to do with that money? They already enough money for the next 20 generations of their families.

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

[JahriMeayer]

CEXs are pressurized by government to obey their rules and regulations what they provided. When you want to dealing fiat with crypto-currencies, government ask kyc otherwise that will be under money laundering sections. Even It'll be easy to trust CEXs when you know their identity. Besides file complain if you get scammed. Where it wont be easy for DEXs but it just gives facilities to trade & convert without kyc issue. Maybe later they make themself better for use

[JohnBitCo]

True DEXs, like BISQ, are open source projects licensed under a GPL-like license that makes the project "owned" by the community. If a lead developer leaves, another from the community can take his/her place, like Bitcoin when Satoshi left, or Linux if Linus Torvalds leaves.

Problems with Bisq is their low trading volume. So it reveals the fact that not much people actually care about privacy, anonymity and truly DEX. If they care about that, they will use true DEX like Bisq more and will contribute to make trading volume on it much higher.

I disagree with the OP on the opinion. Bitcoin is for everyone and there are many use cases for it, on DEX, on CEX, on Peer-to-Peer marketplace, gambling sites, etc. Nothing destroys the true value of Bitcoin. Together, they contribute to bring Bitcoin to the world, to result in better adoption. It's more good than harm.

Yeah, DEXES are not fully developed yet and people are comfortable trading on centralized exchanges. However, the there is no difference in true value of  bitcoin if dexes were more common.
I don't think that anyone does not buy or trade bitcoin only because trading platforms are centralized.

[Ale88]

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

[coupable]

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

If i am not wrong, it was 2014-2015.
It's a famous case. Please take a look at it. The case seems to be resolved after catching up its CEO but the authorities still fail to recover the full lost amount knowing that the thief has partners from inside/outside the platform to help him enjoy his winnings.

The main reason for someone to scam others is greedness which you won't see until the incident happens.

[dunfida]

CEXs are pressurized by government to obey their rules and regulations what they provided. When you want to dealing fiat with crypto-currencies, government ask kyc otherwise that will be under money laundering sections. Even It'll be easy to trust CEXs when you know their identity. Besides file complain if you get scammed. Where it wont be easy for DEXs but it just gives facilities to trade & convert without kyc issue. Maybe later they make themself better for use

At least we do have some option but majority of us wont really be having any options but to dealt with CEX since this is the only medium or path for us to make out conversions from crypto to fiat which cant be possible
on decentralized exchanges. We've seen platforms had no kyc wayback but since they are regulated then this is where they do really get pressured on applying such terms and conditions because they've been asked to do so which would lead no choice and wont really be surprising that almost centralized platforms would really come into this path  which is something to become the norm.

[mildmanneredsuffering]

bitcoin is too slow for onchain exchange. there is the weakness. it must be trade via an sql ledger not the bitcoin network ledger.
And that makes the fixed supply denominator notso fixed.

Here we have reached the end of the bitcoin experiment. we learned so much and now we know.

 exchange must be onchain for true supply economics to work.

Did  futures and other infinite supply mechanics kill bitcoin, did sql ledgers trading kill bitcoin, did we all kill bitcoin?

yes

[mindrust]

The solution is simple, don't use any centralized exchanges. Do not keep you money on them, do not make any trades there. But then, if people weren't using these exchanges the space would be so dull and empty. It is probably most people treat crypto as a giant casino and centralized exchanges are often the fastest and the only ways of depositing/withdrawing cash...

[franky1]

CEX ruins the values(features and benefits) of bitcoin(privacy/pseudonymity)
.. BUT
CEX establishes the value($financial) of bitcoin
after all when you check the price of bitcoin. you check the main markets.


best advice is. If/WHEN you are ready to convert from fiat to bitcoin or from bitcoin to fiat. expect that the wire transfers from banks will be reporting you anyway or knowing your involvement in crypto. so dont be afraid to use CEX when you are dealing with fiat. .. but if your not dealing in fiat. dont use an exchange

[wilkine]

Bitcoin is created for the purpose of freedom and decentralization. But CEX works the other way. Maybe at first we could use help from exchange platforms to make crypto assets well known, but eventually people will realize they don't need CEX to trade at all. It's a process that takes time.

[Ale88]

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

If i am not wrong, it was 2014-2015.
It's a famous case. Please take a look at it.
The main reason for someone to scam others is greedness which you won't see until the incident happens.

I double checked, it happened in February 2014 and they stole approx $473 mln, which of course is a huge amount of money even today, but at the same time it's not that much compared to the current exchanges gains through the commissions. CZ alone is worth at least $75 billions, so the difference is huge.

With my statement I don't mean we need to trust CEX at 100% but for sure many things changed in the last 7-8 years.

[mildmanneredsuffering]

gee big surpirses bitcoin gets hit again. does everyone just short btc everyday until its shutdown ow? Is it that easy to make money by only shorting every single rise?

Shameful display of fucking down every damn week

[Wiwo]

This is what you get when you use the service of a centralized exchange and one other exchange you failed to mention is the popular binance exchange which also requires certain information from a user of a different country with their peculiar KYC requirement. I have always tried as much as possible to avoid the use of centralized cryptocurrency services because of the demand for personal information and documents to be able to operate on them. I call them the crypto bank as they are performing according to the same law that guides the banking system.

[verita1]

Although we have contrary opinions, for or against. CEXs have contributed to the exponential growth of people who use bitcoin. They have had the opportunity to learn about bitcoin on these platforms and have even created a way of working as a trader, in P2P and other ventures linked to these sites.
I do not disagree with the CEX, on the contrary, I feel safe in their apps, and every day I notice improvements in UX/UI due to user demands.

[Mahanton]

This is what you get when you use the service of a centralized exchange and one other exchange you failed to mention is the popular binance exchange which also requires certain information from a user of a different country with their peculiar KYC requirement. I have always tried as much as possible to avoid the use of centralized cryptocurrency services because of the demand for personal information and documents to be able to operate on them. I call them the crypto bank as they are performing according to the same law that guides the banking system.

In exchange of convenience from converting your fiat to crypto then you would really be needing to exchange your personal information or simply your anonymity or identity.If you are fine with that and dont bother
yourself about getting known or possible taxation or something like that then go ahead but it is totally contrary on why crypto is been created for which is for decentralization.
Yeah, CEX might ruin it but are there things that we do have some choice then we do go with that but now, we dont have something that we could choose on.

[coupable]

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

If i am not wrong, it was 2014-2015.
It's a famous case. Please take a look at it.
The main reason for someone to scam others is greedness which you won't see until the incident happens.

I double checked, it happened in February 2014 and they stole approx $473 mln, which of course is a huge amount of money even today, but at the same time it's not that much compared to the current exchanges gains through the commissions. CZ alone is worth at least $75 billions, so the difference is huge.

With my statement I don't mean we need to trust CEX at 100% but for sure many things changed in the last 7-8 years.

I am pretty sure that nothing important has been developped since then expect the inerfer of SEC authorities for similar cases. Many other projects turn into a scam after building the good reputation for several years. Not toention examples like Yobit and HitBtc who are still operating despite the accusations .

[Ale88]

The possibility of theft from members of the platform themselves, even if they are its owners, remains a possibility that cannot be abandoned. We have seen similar cases in the past so we do not cancel any hypothesis. And I think we all remember the MT.GOX platform, which is an issue that has not yet been resolved after making sure that the project managers were the ones who stole the users' money. Assuming that platform owners are rich, users' savings represent a much larger figure that can be easily obtained instead of working to make a profit.

Could you please remind me in what year MtGox scammed its users? Many things changed in the meantime, and all the exchanges that scammed usually were minor exchanges, sometimes located in secondary countries (I remember one in Turkey for example). Of course everyone can believe what he wants to believe, if you think that Coinbase or Binance will scam their users, you are totally free to think it. But again, I don't see a single reason for them to do it.

If i am not wrong, it was 2014-2015.
It's a famous case. Please take a look at it.
The main reason for someone to scam others is greedness which you won't see until the incident happens.

I double checked, it happened in February 2014 and they stole approx $473 mln, which of course is a huge amount of money even today, but at the same time it's not that much compared to the current exchanges gains through the commissions. CZ alone is worth at least $75 billions, so the difference is huge.

With my statement I don't mean we need to trust CEX at 100% but for sure many things changed in the last 7-8 years.

I am pretty sure that nothing important has been developped since then expect the inerfer of SEC authorities for similar cases. Many other projects turn into a scam after building the good reputation for several years. Not toention examples like Yobit and HitBtc who are still operating despite the accusations .

Yobit and HitBtc were kind of shady almost since the beginning, I've never used them and I absolutely don't plan to ever do it. I'm surprised there still are people who use those exchanges. I've only used Bitstamp at the very beginning, then Kraken and Bitfinex, now pretty much only Binance, Kucoin and Gate.