"Change the Code, Not the Climate" FUD campaign coming next month

[Wind_FURY]

If they're expecting investors to care about the planet, they're going to be quite disappointed.

And sure, a bunch of mining pools and a few people could have the power to change how the network mines but who's going to incentivise them to not want to make money and give up their infrastructure.

The moment they mention exchanges having to be involved in changing the protocol is probably the moment we can assume they don't actually know how they're going to do it without widespread adoption of a shitcoin that can replace bitcoin (and enough have already failed at that).

Because they're argument is flawed built on the wrong assumptions. Because "they" didn't take time to understand that the issuance of the currency within the protocol through POW is necessary. It's not only necessary, it's the only way to issue the currency credibly. THROUGH POW.

[dkbit98]

Change the code... make it centralized, look Vitalik is doing it... must be great.
Yeah, let's change everything for ''the climate''... just look how great shitereum is doing reversing transactions and changing their code all the time, planet is saved for sure
Same people who are sharing this stupid campaign are also saying that people over 60 are responsible for third of greenhouse gas emissions... and than you know what would be their next ''ultimate solution'' for this issue.
Bitcoin affect on climate (that is always changing btw) is so miniscule compared to everything else and it only looks bigger if you are looking at it with a magnifying glass

[Lucius]

In my opinion, to fight this type of FUD we need to clarify this distinction for newcomers.

To them and at least 80% of those who think they know something about what Bitcoin is and how it actually works. Because the average person still trusts the mainstream media, and we all know that these media are under the direct control of the world's greatest powerful people who form a public opinion through them. Even if you know something, at some point you may wonder if you were wrong all the time after they started bombarding you every day with the news that Bitcoin mining is the killer of planet Earth, that it is used only by criminals and terrorists and those who want to escape paying taxes.

I have had the opportunity to meet all of them in real life, and these people do not deviate from their position no matter what someone tells them. If the guy who's going to fund this campaign believes in what he's been advocating for 10 years, then there's nothing we can do about it. Some will say that it should be ignored as Faketoshi, others that it should be retaliated against with the same measure, but no matter how someone puts it, I am sure that all of them will sooner or later fall into the hole they are trying to dig for Bitcoin.

[Western_Boris]

Bitcoin affect on climate (that is always changing btw) is so miniscule compared to everything else and it only looks bigger if you are looking at it with a magnifying glass

Actually, Bitcoin does not affect climate at all. There are zero carbon emissions by Bitcoin. Coal and other polluting energy creation affects climate. Not matter where that electricity gets used. So it is not Bitcoins problem, it is energy creation problem.

[franky1]

if the XRP founder thinks switching algo will 'fix' bitcoin.. then why is XRP so crap.. yep answer is because the lack of cost in making XRP is why no one values it more then $1

there is a reason why even in the most cheapest mining cost for bitcoin, the price at the same time does not go below that price.

same with gold no one would sell gold for under $1k if it cost $1k+-$2k to mine it.

XRP has no real cost hense why its at under $1 right now

..
as for the debate about energy usage of bitcoin.
it has already been worked out that if all cars(just family cars) were electric it would require 4000x more electric than bitcoin worldwide.
then add on the trucks and other vehicles and you soon realise that bitcoin is miniscule compared to other 'new tech' demands of this last and the next decade

[Ale88]

Chris Larsen, who founded his own altcoin 2012, is going to be one of the people funding this campaign:

Larsen said Bitcoin’s power consumption issue could be fixed via a soft or a hard fork -- both changing the network’s code to make Bitcoin less power hungry. A soft fork would preserve Bitcoin as a single blockchain. A hard fork would split Bitcoin into two separate networks, one supporting miners and the other running different code -- perhaps Proof of Stake.

The campaign believes that about 50 key miners, crypto exchanges and core developers have the power to change Bitcoin’s code.

Well, the nice thing about bitcoin is that if you don't like it you can try to make a fork, then people will decide which version to embrace. Does Larsen really think that the bitcoin community will choose a fork with a guy like him behind it? Good for him, for me this idea will fail miserably. I'm pretty sick and tired about this environmentally FUD about bitcoin, they have no idea what they're talking about.

[kryptqnick]

It's true that Bitcoin won't turn to PoS, it'll just be a new altcoin. And I do agree that climate change must be taken seriously. But turning to proof of stake won't solve climate change and will negatively impact Bitcoin. So such 'clever' solutions aren't helpful, not to mention how many times it was discussed that the impact of mining on climate change is often exaggerated. If they want PoS, they can campaign for using PoS coins and not using Bitcoin. Why would they attempt to change Bitcoin to meet their views and needs? And why not campaign for cleaner energy instead, to reduce the impact of mining on climate change?

[vv181]

Citing to Theguardian, they will run digital ads across "Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Marketwatch, Politico, Facebook and other publications".

Looks like they are aggressively attempting to spread the FUD to the mainstream people,

They've been publishing FUD articles in all the major media outlets already. Publishing ads on top of that is not really a big improvement in my opinion since ads are mostly ignored or blocked by ad blockers

It may not become a big improvement, but for those regular users who don't even use adblocker, they may fulfil the FUD narratives, which could make the narrative even bigger. Some people still got scammed by ads, anyway. I believe rather than the ads being ignored, the ads could likely have the chance to make mainstream people aware that there may something wrong with Bitcoin.

which considering how cryptocurrencies exposure are recently blooming, there is a high chance that a lot of people got disinformed.

What has been a big concern is that they are raising legitimate concerns involving cryptocurrencies then they expand those to bitcoin. For example they use the money laundering that is happening in the token market (mainly NFTs these days) then claim bitcoin's sole purpose is also the same.

Unfortunately this is a strategy that you can see in all of their FUD articles and the concern is that people believe such masterfully crafted content that has some traces of truth. To put simply regular people can't distinguish between bitcoin and shitcoins so by giving them facts about shitcoins they convince them bitcoin is the same.

In my opinion, to fight this type of FUD we need to clarify this distinction for newcomers.

I believe I'm not thoroughly watching the FUD narrative evolve as you may did. But yes, educating a great distinction should follow in against to fight what they tried to do. After all, the longer Bitcoin stands its time, I believe it should make people realize that there is something essential that is tied to bitcoin. I presume it is kind of similar like Bitcoin Obituaries.

[pooya87]

I have had the opportunity to meet all of them in real life, and these people do not deviate from their position no matter what someone tells them. If the guy who's going to fund this campaign believes in what he's been advocating for 10 years, then there's nothing we can do about it.

I wouldn't say they are all like this. A lot of them believe in what they are told by the censored media simply because nobody has ever told them otherwise! For example they believe the "bitcoin PoW bad" FUD simply because nobody explained to them why it is FUD. Although I agree that there are some people who are too brainwashed to be saved

It is pretty hard to go against the massive propaganda machine with infinite funding that has been brainwashing people for decades but I have found out that it depends on how things are explained. A well versed person simplifying things based on their audience and talking with facts is very useful in countering propaganda.
For instance a lot of people believed Faketoshi but when explanations came out by experts, many of them were convinced he is a scammer.

[Lucius]

I wouldn't say they are all like this. A lot of them believe in what they are told by the censored media simply because nobody has ever told them otherwise! For example they believe the "bitcoin PoW bad" FUD simply because nobody explained to them why it is FUD. Although I agree that there are some people who are too brainwashed to be saved

There are definitely too many of them, and I can only say I'm sorry I spent too much time trying to explain some things to them - and in the end I turned out to be some kind of criminal just trying to trick people and launder money through Bitcoin. While I wouldn’t agree that it’s just brainwashing, some people are just less intelligent (not to say stupid) to figure out some things.

It is pretty hard to go against the massive propaganda machine with infinite funding that has been brainwashing people for decades but I have found out that it depends on how things are explained. A well versed person simplifying things based on their audience and talking with facts is very useful in countering propaganda.
For instance a lot of people believed Faketoshi but when explanations came out by experts, many of them were convinced he is a scammer.

Some realized after a long time, but the problem is that they believed in something at all that did not have any solid facts, and it was based on the words of a person who simply said "I am Satoshi". If someone who was one of Satoshi's closest associates can be convinced of such lies, then what to expect from the average person who watches it all from a great distance.

Gavin Andresen was the lead Bitcoin developer and maintainer in the early Bitcoin years and was picked by Satoshi himself to take charge of the Bitcoin project when he chose to “disappear.” In 2016, Gavin was attacked almost unanimously by the BTC world immediately after he publicly testified that Craig Wright was Satoshi. His commit access to Bitcoin Core on GitHub was revoked and other Bitcoin management accounts locked by other Core developers under the pretense that Gavin must have been hacked (of course he was not, and it became clear he was not when he spoke again, but he was permanently exiled because he was considered “dangerous” to the BTC world).

[franky1]

the other propaganda is "bitcoin cant scale, so off-ramp to these other networks please, which we will call bitcoin+1, bitcoin2.0 or bitcoinL2 or something snazzy to steal instant fame without the hard work and without actually having all the features of bitcoin"

the thing is for years people have been crying[fake or misguided tears] about how bitcoins blockchain is [400GB] and growing, and how thats a reason to stop using bitcoin..

much like shouting "dont watch movies on you phone because a HD movie is 5gb but thats only 1 day of TV sofa binge watching you phone is capable of. so lets destroy phones and the internet and also movies"

kodak made that fatal mistake in the 90's when they didnt progress to digital because they thought 1mb images would not scale on digital storage

yet ethereums blockchain is 1TB. yet people still use it alot. and are developing alot of stuff on it. more then whats being developed on bitcoin in the last 7 years to improve bitcoins utility. (and i mean.. on bitcoin.. to strengthen its bitcoin main-net utility (i do not mean the side chains and bridged/pegged altnets pretending to be bitcoin))

so pretending that people wont/cant/shouldnt use bitcoin, or pretending bitcoin is dead, or pretending that bitcoin is a environmental disaster.. where bitcoin needs to be replaced/changed to remove its uniqueness or just killed off by a new network.. is just propaganda to get bitcoiners to stop using bitcoin to then use a different token/network/coin/system of lesser quality, but fake pretend the lesser quality networks/forks are same/better then bitcoin

if you want a variant of bitcoin without the SHA256 ASIC heavy mining.. there is already:
'bitcoin diamond'
'bitcoin atom'
[insert 100+altcoins]

[darkangel11]

Chris Larsen, who founded his own altcoin 2012, is going to be one of the people funding this campaign:

Of course, a founder of this scam coin that does nothing and gives nothing to the community. All it does is advertises itself and pays wages to a board of directors which is all financed from its huge premine. They capitalized on the fact that it was very early in the coin space and most coins that were created in the first few years of Bitcoin's existence managed to survive even though they weren't fulfilling their promises. XRP was supposed to be a payment coin accepted by the banks. 10 years later it still isn't and this guy has the nerve to criticize bitcoin and campaign against proof of work.

[pooya87]

There are definitely too many of them, and I can only say I'm sorry I spent too much time trying to explain some things to them - and in the end I turned out to be some kind of criminal just trying to trick people and launder money through Bitcoin.

Haha I know what you mean. I've been stuck in this situation too, they even tried to convince me that bitcoin is a scary thing that I should stay away from while they don't even pronounce it right
In my experience these people come around though (which is why I think they are just brainwashed). The same person contacted me to admit he was wrong after he heard the news that the parliament was passing a law to legalize using bitcoin for import/exports.

If someone who was one of Satoshi's closest associates can be convinced of such lies, then what to expect from the average person who watches it all from a great distance.

The situation was a lot shadier than that. I don't believe he was fooled at all, he was convinced through other means (financial persuasion is one of the possibilities, 3 letter agency involvement is another).

[BlackHatCoiner]

In my opinion, to fight this type of FUD we need to clarify this distinction for newcomers.

That's realistically impossible. Each one of us (even in this forum) has a certain limit in informing and affecting people; we're limited in borders. For example, whatever I say or create in this forum or even in social media is very limited. On the other hand, the one who controls the media can accomplish this much easier. And that's a serious sociopolitical problem, beyond Bitcoin.

I believe we do our best, though.


I'm stealing this from WO, 'cause it's hilarious:

[n0nce]

Have you guys seen the original? I'm linking it here. It's hilariously wrong in all aspects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hdjt0cqLuA

What's even better is that there is also a voice-over which corrects all those mistakes (basically always the exact opposite of what's been said in the original) which is funny but also in my opinion very educational for folks that actually believe what they've heard in the first video (or anywhere else that PoS fans spout their nonsense):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQq5M04lju4

Both are under 2 minutes each; I recommend watching back to back, it's pretty funny.

Careful, don't fall out of your chair on this one:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24731/commits/746c75a33c3c822bf04e16d435a3fef7ccb7da4e


Change code

This changes the code.

PoS has several outstanding problems, see for example section 4.2
"Costless Simulation" of https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf .
Simply signing the blocks with a predetermined set of keys has similar
tradeoffs, but an often disregarded advantage: A limited set of (let's
say 2) block signers consumes 99.5% less energy than a larger set of
(let's say 400) participants in PoS.

Luckily, in Bitcoin Core this consensus mechanism is already implemented
and the code changes required are trivial. Nonetheless, review is
appreciated.

[ivankoh]

A group of people are going to campaign for a change in how Bitcoin works.

And certainly bitcoin hasn't changed just to serve billionaire gentlemen.  Lol, They are trying to entice others with FUD and reluctantly donate to enrich POS slaughterhouse.  But what bitcoins are generated cannot be altered by tampering.  Bitcoin's support will be there for it to be the only independent block.  I believe it is the right thing

[Lucius]

Haha I know what you mean. I've been stuck in this situation too, they even tried to convince me that bitcoin is a scary thing that I should stay away from while they don't even pronounce it right

We seem to have talked to the same people, because even today some people persistently say Bitcom instead of Bitcoin, which can be quite irritating considering that you have told them countless times what is right and what is not.

In my experience these people come around though (which is why I think they are just brainwashed). The same person contacted me to admit he was wrong after he heard the news that the parliament was passing a law to legalize using bitcoin for import/exports.

I was not so lucky, everyone who had a bad opinion of Bitcoin, still has it today, and to get rid of them I always tell them that Bitcoin failed and that I lost everything I invested - for some, it is enough to be happy (because they were right), and I no longer have to listen to their nonsense.

The situation was a lot shadier than that. I don't believe he was fooled at all, he was convinced through other means (financial persuasion is one of the possibilities, 3 letter agency involvement is another).

It is possible, because it is known to whom he went to talk about Bitcoin for a fee, which showed that he is a person who has a price. What is not clear to me is how Satoshi did not notice who he was dealing with until it was too late, and even how he listed him as one of the people to whom he leaves his project. But we must accept that there must be rotten apples in every basket, as well as black sheep in every flock.

[n0nce]

Bitcoin affect on climate (that is always changing btw) is so miniscule compared to everything else and it only looks bigger if you are looking at it with a magnifying glass

Actually, Bitcoin does not affect climate at all. There are zero carbon emissions by Bitcoin. Coal and other polluting energy creation affects climate. Not matter where that electricity gets used. So it is not Bitcoins problem, it is energy creation problem.

Honestly, this is a pretty good point that I don't hear a lot.

Like: If energy producers only / mainly sell 'dirty' energy, the user can't do a lot about it. At that point you can even ban the general use of electric devices, because many people power them off of non-renewable energy.

In fact, the one thing you can do if you're in the situation where you need to buy non-renewable energy is building your own clean energy source, which is what many miners are actually doing.

I have had the opportunity to meet all of them in real life, and these people do not deviate from their position no matter what someone tells them. If the guy who's going to fund this campaign believes in what he's been advocating for 10 years, then there's nothing we can do about it.

I wouldn't say they are all like this. A lot of them believe in what they are told by the censored media simply because nobody has ever told them otherwise! For example they believe the "bitcoin PoW bad" FUD simply because nobody explained to them why it is FUD. Although I agree that there are some people who are too brainwashed to be saved

My question though, is: why do they just believe what someone (anyone) is telling them? Why can't they think by themselves and simply make up their own minds? 'Thinking' should be taught in school, if it is not. Because otherwise majorities of people will become victims of any mediocre scam(mer).

yet ethereums blockchain is 1TB. yet people still use it alot. and are developing alot of stuff on it. more then whats being developed on bitcoin in the last 7 years to improve bitcoins utility. (and i mean.. on bitcoin.. to strengthen its bitcoin main-net utility (i do not mean the side chains and bridged/pegged altnets pretending to be bitcoin))

This is getting OT, but have you tried spinning up an Ethereum node? Because it's not as trivial as running a Bitcoin node. It needs a lot more computing power and of course storage. Since you also usually don't get e.g. 1.5TB SSDs, you're looking at buying a 2TB drive instead of a 1TB one which will last a lot longer; those 2TB will be filled rather quickly. Remember 400GB in 13 years vs 1TB in 6 years means it's growing over 400% as fast.
This disincentivizes hobbyists to run their own nodes and leads to more centralization, which I believe we can all agree is bad.
Only because people use it and develop on it doesn't mean it's good. Like, people build businesses on FIAT, so why not stick with that (if that's your argument for Ethereum or big blocks ).

[pooya87]

My question though, is: why do they just believe what someone (anyone) is telling them? Why can't they think by themselves and simply make up their own minds? 'Thinking' should be taught in school, if it is not. Because otherwise majorities of people will become victims of any mediocre scam(mer).

That's a hard thing to answer since it needs some human behavior and sociological studies.

I suppose part of it is because people generally like to be told what to do and how to think, that's why hierarchies exist. People love to look up to someone. For example if there is a guy who is a billionaire then he must be wise too and people take whatever he says as the truth even when he says "bitcoin is rat poison".

Another part is that this characteristic has been exploited by the minority in power using the media. For example I recently watched a video someone posted on bitcointalk of a supposedly fantastic video about economy, in that video people were basically being brainwashed into accepting that debt based economy is a good thing, inflation is beautiful, the crashing economy every couple of years is a good thing, the inevitable recession where millions of jobs are lost every now and then is a beautiful thing! Funny thing is that he was admitting that this kind of economy destroys production and encourages people to borrow more to spend more and be up to their necks in debt instead of working and producing more to help the economy actually grow instead of fakely inflate.
It resembles a lot like the dangling carrot

And finally I think it is a combination of lack of time and memory. As I said before, people don't have time to investigate everything they hear every day specially since we are bombarded by a lot of information on daily basis. So when they read a popular media outlet saying "China banned bitcoin" they believe it even if this is the 100th time they publish the same lie over the past decade which brings us to the second part, lack of long term memory... They keep believing the same outlet that lied to them before simply because they forgot the past.

[Tellek Garing]

From the unsent the POS has always been a part and parcel of the ethereum blockchain and the critics will never seize to exist, take it or leave after this campaign there will still be several others that will come against Bitcoin POW.

So let the mainstream media continue with their campaigns of conspiracy