Have you ever tried to live only on Bitcoin?

[Rikafip]

That's true. I used it a time when I made some good profits, so I didn't pay that much attention.      

Yeah that's the thing about the fees, they are not a problem until you start buying something regularly. Let's say that you are making 8-10 round trip flights per year, 10% higher price adds up and it's not like you can remain anonymous when buying the airline ticket. But it's a good thing nevertheless, to have that extra option as you never know when you could have issues with your card. That reminds me of the article I read recently about bunch of Russian tourists that got stranded in some country as their credit/debit cards and flights home got cancelled due sanctions. That's why I always try to have few hundreds of dollars on my mobile phone bitcoin wallet as you never know when you gonna need it.

So, the only option for a long time will be to exchange the crypto into a fiat and live from it and, when possible, spend the crypto directly in those few places where it is possible.

Not the only option; you can move to Salvador and freely spend your bitcoin there . Joke aside I agree, still a long road ahead for bitcoin to reach the point where we can spend it directly on majority of places and some compromises will have to be made. What surprise me though is are people that are complaining about adoption  going slow, while bitcoin has been around for only ~13 years which is nothing really, and so much has been done already.

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[xSkylarx]

With this thread, I would like to know how many users of Bitcointalk have tried something similar, or are maybe living only on crypto as we speak? Has anyone tried it for a day, a week, or just a few hours?

Please share your experience, and if possible, include the names and locations of shops, websites, and services that made your BTC spending easier and more comfortable. How easy or hard is it to live only on Bitcoin in your city/country?

I got curious about this and did some research on a couple of sites to make this possible in our country. Well, I think I can live with using bitcoin for a few months because I can buy food using a wallet here in the country (I will elaborate below) and also top up a card for my transportation to go to work, but I can't go far with this. With regards to rent, I am not renting a house since I own one, so no problem. With the bill, I can use the same wallet to pay bills and also top-up my phone.

Coins.ph for Food - I can use this to buy food since there are supported food stores on this wallet, which is a scan to pay, so I just scan it using the wallet and pay my food.
Coins.ph for Bills - I can still use this to pay my electric, water, and internet bills. I can also top up my mobile with this wallet.
Beep Card top up by Coins.ph - This is a card for transportation, which I mainly used to go to work, so I can still use this to pay for my transportation, which I top up using bitcoin.

In food this is really expensive since you cant choose low prices foods on the store that accepts bitcoin so I really need a lot of bitcoin but to others like bills and transport it is still usual expenses.

But there are other wallets like Gcash and Paymaya that will start integrating crypto into their systems with which anything is possible to live with only using bitcoin because Gcash is widely used in stores to accept payments, so if this was integrated, I am pretty sure that I could live as long as I want because even small stores accept this kind of method, even taxis or food delivery services.

It isn't difficult now to spend your bitcoins or live with only using bitcoin now because we can now see a lot of stores accepting it, unlike a few years ago when most people said that bitcoin was a scam and people didn't know what it was. But now, as you can see, a lot of people want to get into bitcoin, and because of COVID, I saw a lot of people doing research on it and getting curious about what bitcoin really is.

[aoluain]

Like others I have occasionally paid for goods and services with Bitcoin but living
solely from it is not an option for me currently. My weekly wage is paid in FIAT and even
if I could convince my employer to pay my wages in Bitcoin I couldnt spend it in
my city or pay my mortgage with it.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people are tethered to the FIAT financial system more
or less consciously or subconsciously.

AFAIK or remember Franky1 was able to live solely on  Bitcoin....I might be wrong tho.

[KingsDen]

Depending only on Bitcoin for living and daily spending is subjective to your country acceptance of bitcoin and as well as that of your immediate environment.
Taking the instance of the youtuber who is a resident at Canada is understandable and somewhat practicable but I doubt it's wholly achievable.

In development and technogical adaptation, Canada is at the front line, which makes it not totally impracticable.
If we talk about a society where trust has collapsed, I mean a society where the citizens does not trust the government let alone to trust his/her fellow citizens, you will have to prove first that  you are not fraudulent before talking about Bitcoin transaction. This is because, immediate you mentioned Bitcoin, someone has already tagged you a scammer in his mind.
Again, the level of bitcoin acceptance is a factor. Many people leave in places where bitcoin cannot be used for daily groceries purchase. Infact, companies accepting bitcoin are more online base than offline, which makes it difficult to buy everything you need with bitcoin.

This statement below should prove that even the youtuber needed or needs fiat at some points.

• When he needs USD, he deposits his Bitcoin as collateral and takes out a loan in fiat.

For what purpose does he need USD. We are yet to advance to the stage where bitcoin is used for daily activities and I doubt it will ever happen. Many people are seeing bitcoin as an investment asset instead of a currency.

[Pmalek]

If partially and indirectly living on BTCitcoin counts, then I did it back in 2019 ^{[for 3 months]}... My plan was to live only on BTCitcoin, but it took me less than a day to realize it's not going to happen!

Damn it. I thought we found the first person who managed to do it based on your first sentence, but then everything changed with the second and so on.   

FYI: Based on my findings ^{[at the time]}, I couldn't rely on any of the crypto debit cards!

In what way couldn't you rely on them? Didn't they support your country or was your gut feeling telling you not to trust them?

<Snip>

Nice explanations, thanks for that. Judging by the Coins.ph site that keeps popping up in your reply, I can safely assume you are from the Philippines. What about taxes? Each of those transactions and conversions from crypto to fiat would be creating taxable events. What does the law in the Philippines say about that?

[xSkylarx]

<Snip>

Nice explanations, thanks for that. Judging by the Coins.ph site that keeps popping up in your reply, I can safely assume you are from the Philippines. What about taxes? Each of those transactions and conversions from crypto to fiat would be creating taxable events. What does the law in the Philippines say about that?

Yes, I am from the Philippines, which has many beautiful beaches but also has the worst traffic. Lol. With regards to the tax, I could probably say that the tax when it comes to cryptocurrency is not that strict here. As long as you haven't declared it to the Bureau of Internal Revenue (this is an agency of the government where you need to declare your assets), they will not know. I don't know how to really explain this, but we are like evading this because recently BIR announced that people who are earning money from online like Bitcoin or NFT games should pay tax. They just need to go to their office and declare this, which has caused a lot of debates here because with regards to paying taxes, it depends on how much you earn, and crypto and NFT are very volatile, so your income is also not stable, which the agency hasn't answered. Based on what I observed, I haven't seen anyone that is paying taxes or declaring that they are earning from crypto as far as I know.

With regards to the conversion from crypto to fiat, there are no hidden fees that you will pay and the details are just pure fee transactions. They usually charge you when you cash it out of your wallet to banks or third-party services to get your money.The only time we are involved with the tax is when we are buying things like food, because the VAT is already included in the price of the item you purchase.

I am also curious in your country if we are in the same situation in tax or if you have a strict law implementation in your country about paying tax that involves bitcoin.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

I would be careful. I am not sure how reliable Coins.ph is as a service, but it seems that the majority in the Philippines are using it. Since you are paying bills with it, there is probably a requirement to undergo KYC. They store that data somewhere. If the local tax office decides to pressure Coins.ph to share with them the data of those who use crypto on their site, Coins.ph will have to comply. The government wants their share of the spoils and if the law is on their side, they will find a way to get it.   

[SFR10]

Damn it. I thought we found the first person who managed to do it based on your first sentence, but then everything changed with the second and so on.   

Sorry if it gave the wrong impression, but I was able to only do it "partially and indirectly"
^{- Luckily, a lot has changed and if someone were to try it now [in the Philippines], they can "indirectly" live on BTCitcoin.}

In what way couldn't you rely on them? Didn't they support your country or was your gut feeling telling you not to trust them?

There were reports that mentioned they didn't "always" work for both physical and online stores; hence I never tried it ^{[not sure if that situation has improved in recent years]}.

[bluebit25]

I used to pay crypto for my brother's school fees, I really want the surrounding environment to have many places that accept crypto, but there are still a lot of restrictions. They only accept a certain amount of money. Relatively, not many things accept payments directly with crypto. However, I am still living on the money I am earning from this market, I still have to convert to fiat for easier transactions, I am really curious about a place on this planet that accepts crypto for everything in life.

[xSkylarx]

<Snip>

I would be careful. I am not sure how reliable Coins.ph is as a service, but it seems that the majority in the Philippines are using it. Since you are paying bills with it, there is probably a requirement to undergo KYC. They store that data somewhere. If the local tax office decides to pressure Coins.ph to share with them the data of those who use crypto on their site, Coins.ph will have to comply. The government wants their share of the spoils and if the law is on their side, they will find a way to get it.   

Wow, you are 100% right. I was shocked and thought about this for a minute. This would really be a problem for us if they enforced that tax on us. I'm only thinking about how they'd know we're into crypto, but our wallet alone could be enough to identify us.We have to go through KYC before we can use the wallet, so we don't have a choice.I am worried now about what will happen in the upcoming years since bitcoin is getting famous, but I am also scared to declare it to the agency. What ever happens, I will try to solve it in the future when I encounter it. There are still a lot of people to check, so it will take a lot of time on this and I am pretty sure they will after to people that has huge amount earnings in crypto because you know they want they share of spoil as you stated 

Also, I read the terms and conditions of the coins, which state that it is our responsibility and not theirs to collect, report and remit our tax, meaning they are out of it when the government decides to push this law about taxing cryptocurrency.

Code:

2.5 Taxes. It is your responsibility to determine what, if any, taxes apply to the payments you make or receive, and it is your responsibility to collect, report and remit the correct tax to the appropriate tax authority. Coins.ph is not responsible for determining whether taxes apply to your transaction, or for collecting, reporting or remitting any taxes arising from any transaction.

Coins.ph Terms and Condition : 2.5 Taxes

[Pmalek]

That segment about taxes means that they are not the party responsible for reporting and paying taxes. The clients and users of their services are.

Coins.ph Terms and Condition : 2.5 Taxes

Those terms and conditions also state that Coins.ph can cancel, reverse, or refuse to do business with an individual if ordered so by the court or government agency. If they listen to the state in terms of who to do business with (and it's completely normal they will because no one is above the law), they will also cooperate if the government asks them about crypto users.

Their Privacy Policy says the following thing:

We may share your personal information with:
...
- Law enforcement, government officials, or other third-parties...

They also say that they can keep your private information for up to 5 years after you close your account.

We will retain your personal data throughout the subscription of our products and services, and for a maximum period of five (5) years after account closure...

However, if you close your account, your personal identifiable information will not be used by us for any further purposes, nor sold or shared with third-parties, except as necessary to prevent fraud, assist law enforcement, as required by law, or in accordance with this Privacy Policy.

More on that here > https://coins.ph/privacy/.

[Lucius]

Not the only option; you can move to Salvador and freely spend your bitcoin there . Joke aside I agree, still a long road ahead for bitcoin to reach the point where we can spend it directly on majority of places and some compromises will have to be made.

I think some things about that story don't seem very ideal anymore, especially in light of recent events when President Bukele canceled his visit to a conference in Miami due to an allegedly fierce showdown between local gangs, where 9000 people have already been arrested link. This country is far from the security standards we are used to, at least as far as the EU is concerned.


I think that it is not impossible to live fully paying for goods and services with crypto (of course through payment processors), in countries where such conditions exist, and you are well aware of everything that exists in this regard in our country. In some parts of the country, even utilities can be paid for with Bitcoin, not to mention platforms like Bazzar where you can literally buy everything from needles to planes and pay in Bitcoin. I haven’t tried anything like that, but I think it would be feasible if someone made an effort.

[stompix]

• He does his daily shopping by purchasing gift cards from Bitrefill.
• When he needs USD, he deposits his Bitcoin as collateral and takes out a loan in fiat.

So he lives exclusively on bitcoin but he does need to get cash and for most of the stuff he buys he uses gift cards which are obviously a 3rd party thing. I don't see how you can claim to be using bitcoin alone because the fiat you take as a loan is backed by collateral, so somebody could be claiming he is living off his house since he took a mortgage on it 

With this thread, I would like to know how many users of Bitcointalk have tried something similar, or are maybe living only on crypto as we speak? Has anyone tried it for a day, a week, or just a few hours?

I could definitely live for a few days on it. All I have to do would be stock up my fridge and not go out for the next three days and only buy something online with bitcoin during this period, it would qualify, right?   

But if we consider purchasing gift cards with bitcoin and using those to buy stuff as still using exclusively bitcoin then we can count a bitcoin debit card too as one, and in this case, I would probably last a few weeks on using that alone, I can't remember when I last used cash to pay for something, I don't need to pay rent so unless something extraordinary happens I would probably go a long time with a debit card loaded with coins.

But that's not living on bitcoin in my opinion.
Strictly using bitcoin alone and living a normal life? Not a day! Impossible for me or my family!

Off-topic but:

I think some things about that story don't seem very ideal anymore, especially in light of recent events when President Bukele canceled his visit to a conference in Miami due to an allegedly fierce showdown between local gangs, where 9000 people have already been arrested link. This country is far from the security standards we are used to, at least as far as the EU is concerned.

Oh, what a surprise, he stopped paying them to be nice they started acting up again, when you waste your money buying the dip....

[xSkylarx]

That segment about taxes means that they are not the party responsible for reporting and paying taxes. The clients and users of their services are.

Coins.ph Terms and Condition : 2.5 Taxes

Those terms and conditions also state that Coins.ph can cancel, reverse, or refuse to do business with an individual if ordered so by the court or government agency. If they listen to the state in terms of who to do business with (and it's completely normal they will because no one is above the law), they will also cooperate if the government asks them about crypto users.

Their Privacy Policy says the following thing:

We may share your personal information with:
...
- Law enforcement, government officials, or other third-parties...

They also say that they can keep your private information for up to 5 years after you close your account.

We will retain your personal data throughout the subscription of our products and services, and for a maximum period of five (5) years after account closure...

However, if you close your account, your personal identifiable information will not be used by us for any further purposes, nor sold or shared with third-parties, except as necessary to prevent fraud, assist law enforcement, as required by law, or in accordance with this Privacy Policy.

More on that here > https://coins.ph/privacy/.

Thank you for taking the time to elaborate this. Reading their terms and conditions, as well as their privacy policies regarding the data that has been collected on users, is my first time to read and understand it I was simply using the platform at this time and was unaware of this. I am hoping that they will not do something like this or that it will not lead to something where they will give the data to the government because if this happens, I am pretty sure that the government will come after us .

[GeorgeJohn]

From my perspective it will be under assumption before someone can conclude that some individuals is living only on bitcoin, because from the news of bitcoin speculating around the corner, it's not every country adopt the uses of cryptocurrency and it's very rall before you can see someone in my country surviving with bitcoin trading.

If such will happen it maybe in next twenty years and bitcoin will possessed it gravitational force across the world base on the issue of legalization via government... any one who is into bitcoin will as well have a subordinate of other things that will enhance of generating income.. this is my perception.

[Pmalek]

I could definitely live for a few days on it. All I have to do would be stock up my fridge and not go out for the next three days and only buy something online with bitcoin during this period, it would qualify, right?   

As long as you stocked up your fridge by spending your Bitcoins and you have less Bitcoin than before the food purchase, sure. Even if you use a crypto card or buy gift cards, you still acquired those with Bitcoin. What happens to those coins after that, is not your concern. Merchants now have the possibility to convert the crypto you give them into fiat almost instantly and that's a great thing that makes things much easier. But that doesn't change the fact that YOU paid with crypto. The fate of those coins is not important. Sure, it's not the same as doing a proper exchange where I send you X amount of BTC to your address and you provide me with the goods and services I need. But it's a great bridge that connects the two worlds. Even if the other party doesn't want crypto, you can still pay them in crypto.

[Taskford]

Unfortunately its hard for us to live by using bitcoin only because I don't see any local merchant accept this as mean of payment so If I choose to use this for sure my bitcoin will be useless since I can't buy anything here unless I exchange it with fiat. Maybe this discussion about living by using bitcoin only will matter only if you are living on a country which is updated with this and more merchant accepting this currency as another option to pay them on their product and services.

 So I guess many cannot live without fiat on their hands.

[suzanne5223]

In the present condition, it is hard to live only on Bitcoin because the needed patent channel that supports crypto being used as daily payment is still not put in place thats the reason why the Youtuber explained by the OP also used his BTC as collateral and get a loan in fiat but we never thought of how he's going to pay the loan back? Definitely in fiat.

With that being said, if a payment channel that allows the use of Bitcoin as day to day payment is created i won't live only on my Bitcoin because it's an asset.
Go and ask Laszlo Hanyecz, he wishes he didn't spend 10,000BTC on pizza now

[longlivecapitalism]

I did entertain the thought of living solely on crypto once, then I realized that I'd have to change countries to do it 
It is almost impossible in some countries (and some of them make it impossible deliberately). I think we're a few years away from the kind of adoption that would enable us to live like that.

[Pmalek]

It is almost impossible in some countries

It's almost impossible in all countries, not just some. If you took away aids like debit cards and payment processors that convert your cryptocurrencies into fiat, you would be left with very few things that you can do with your crypto. Most of it would be private transactions where one person acquires certain goods or services from another person. Almost no merchants or shops that accept crypto keep those assets. They turn it into fiat instantly.