Another no privacy from Russian Bankers

[_act_]

I use a transactor for this, it is in Russian

https://iz.ru/1321398/evgenii-kuznetcov/delenie-na-kasty-za-khranenie-kripty-vne-birzh-predlagaiut-ugolovnoe-nakazanie

Division into castes: criminal punishment is offered for storing cryptocurrencies outside exchanges
Which Digital Asset Owners May Face Problems

Storing cryptocurrencies on non-custodial crypto wallets, that is, outside of traditional accounts on crypto exchanges, should be criminalized.  This is stated in a letter from the Association of Banks of Russia (ADB) to the Central Bank and departments (Izvestia has it).  The ADB considers this approach to be more logical, although they admit that, perhaps, criminal liability should not come for the very possession of such wallets, but for refusing to provide keys to authorized bodies. 

In the event that a debtor and an anonymous crypto wallet are linked, a person may be given a choice: either issue a key or be punished for hiding property in the form of digital assets, the document says.  The establishment of liability, as conceived by the bankers, will prevent the outflow of capital through the opening of non-custodial crypto wallets.

This will be the end of privacy in Russia for crypto users, if this go as planned by the Russia bankers which consists of Russia banks association, there will be no privacy again, anyone that is having cryptocurrencies will have it on centralize exchange or its wallet address should be reported and known. This is not different from Address Ownership Proof Protocol (AOPP), it is the same thing and it is the threat crypto users are facing. Is it not better for government to stay out of crypto a half way than to legalize it, making privacy not to be possible and begin excessive taxes like the 30% capital gain tax in India. The government are turning people to be the prisoner of their own money which the government can know about. Governments are people, the regulators are people, criminals can be found anywhere, not written on the forehead. There are wolves, lions, snake and other salvages in sheep's clothing, the people that can cause threat by knowing the bitcoin address of people. AOPP will later be a threat to bitcoin and altcoin users.

About the war in Russia, I will leave it out of this, what I am thinking is that if this happen in Russia, there is more tendency that another country will adopt AOPP,  the privacy and safety threat of tomorrow.

[Dunamisx]

This will be the end of privacy in Russia for crypto users, if this go as planned by the Russia banks which consists of many Russia banks, there will be no privacy again,

This is not possible, except if they can achieve to ban cryptocurrency entirely in the country, remember how the EU recently make some moves as well to ban bitcoin and its corresponding PoW because of energy consumption among other financial laundering accusations but it was later voted against, the thing is that governments are looking for every possible means to decentralized cryptocurrency (bitcoin) especially and considering the rate of cryptocurrency growth in Russia, many will go against such.

I also understand how many financial illicit activities were reportedly  traced to Russian citizens in cryptocurrency and the scam rate  cannot be overemphasized there, i can recall of several scenes they have launched attacked this year on individuals and coperate websites but nevertheless, using centralized exchanges will not be the solution because they can as well attack those exchanges and that will worsen the situation because this time it will involve many users, individuals should be responsible and be in custody of of their coins, any attack on it they bear responsibility due to the way they handle their assets security.

Is it not better for government to stay out of crypto a half way than to legalize it, make privacy not to be possible and begin excessive taxes like the 30% capital gain tax in India.

I realized their intention was to regulate the sector fully using centralized exchanges, possibly derive some good income from tax they will levied on those exchanges so they can easily trace any user's data thereby politicizing crypto and laying embargo on accounts just as they do in fiat which is not possible here in crypto, or possibly they want to generate tax on course over all cryptocurrency entities after considering the booming rate in the country thereby serving as a means to byepass sanction which will still not work in this regard.

[Poker Player]

This will be the end of privacy in Russia for crypto users, if this go as planned by the Russia banks which consists of many Russia banks, there will be no privacy again,

This is not possible, except if they can achieve to ban cryptocurrency entirely in the country, remember how the EU recently make some moves as well to ban bitcoin and its corresponding PoW because of energy consumption among other financial laundering accusations but it was later voted against...

You are getting confused in the same way that user franky1 got confused in the EU thread I opened about this:

Goodbye, privacy, goodbye, it was nice while it lasted.

There was a second vote on a second draft in which basically they want to KYC all transactions going through the EU, even $1 or 1 euro if you prefer and this vote on the second draft was passed. There are still steps to go before it is approved but if it is approved in its initial spirit it will be an attack on privacy and sets an example to the rest of the world, as we see now in the example of Russia.

If measures like this become generalized around the world, you will still be able to make P2P trades with an individual to sell you a product or service but more than 99% of the transactions will become KYC, forcing non-custodial (centralized) wallets to KYC their customers and blacklisting those who do not collaborate.

[fiulpro]

What I think they are trying to do right now :
Convert all their investments in their national currency and put them in the banks, ban people from taking it out, therby the government would have opportunity to use that money to increase their value as a whole making the situation a little better.
What people are doing:
Buying houses and other investments online through Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies to make sure that they don't go down with their government since they are doing it internationally as well.
What EU and other sanctions have to say about it :
They already said that bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies would be covered in the same rules perse, which means that there is no going out for them. Therefore the only thing left is to use force and try and manipulate people and the market in the effect as well, because they are already doing loads to keep their currency afloat and if people cash out and go to other international banks or countries being neutral in this situation they are going to get a little off the track, right now they are using gold to back everything up.

[el kaka22]

I get that it is not ideal to have absolutely no privacy when you are using crypto, but I rather have zero privacy and allowed crypto usage over privacy but with banned crypto. Russia looked like they were about to ban crypto before any of this, they were considering it, there were talks about it but then war happened and sanctions happened so all of that resulted with people considering crypto as a good thing for Russians.

Now that it is out in the open, that means that Russian government can't just make it illegal, what can they do? They can learn all of your crypto and make it a taxable thing as well, that way they wouldn't have to make it illegal.

[tabas]

Are they able to determine if somebody stored his crypto assets outside an exchange? They don't know the risk of what they're trying to propose because in case of hack, all of those funds and life savings can be gone on an instant.
They should make it clear and understand first what they want the people to do or else, many will suffer the consequences if ever (we don't ask it to happen) it happens.

[TimeTeller]

I get that it is not ideal to have absolutely no privacy when you are using crypto, but I rather have zero privacy and allowed crypto usage over privacy but with banned crypto. Russia looked like they were about to ban crypto before any of this, they were considering it, there were talks about it but then war happened and sanctions happened so all of that resulted with people considering crypto as a good thing for Russians.

Now that it is out in the open, that means that Russian government can't just make it illegal, what can they do? They can learn all of your crypto and make it a taxable thing as well, that way they wouldn't have to make it illegal.

And I am thinking that with all the losses that they incurred during this war, the government need all the resources they can get from its people.
So knowing the crypto holdings of its people is important to get taxes from it.
Though we all know, it is hard to know all the crypto holding of each individual because they can use noncustodial wallets.
But with this move, they can already get good income because people will prefer to use their crypto and pay for taxes without so much restrictions rather than labelling it as illegal.

[Naficopa]

...

If the Bank of Russia really introduced such a law, Russia would chase out even China through repression. I think that if Russia's policy goes in this direction, it will soon catch up with even North Korea.
To be honest, I don't know how they want to search for private decentralized addresses, but the idea itself seems scary to me.
Even the high taxes in India are a trivia compared to this.

[Hydrogen]

Many trust the government more than they do their neighbors and those they meet in daily life.

They have a stronger sense of loyalty and affection for the government than their own peer group and community.

A shift will have to occur where people feel greater loyalty to their town, country and community than they do towards the government. For some strange reason many seem to dislike each other. And so when these type of tax plans are passed by the government, people are happy that those in their neighborhood and community who they do not like, suffer under them.

That makes it very difficult for people to have nice things.

[Darker45]

I get that it is not ideal to have absolutely no privacy when you are using crypto, but I rather have zero privacy and allowed crypto usage over privacy but with banned crypto.

I think privacy is sacred. I wouldn't trade it for a green light on crypto. To hell with crypto, let the government respect privacy because it is a right, a fundamental right. Without privacy, we are not free human individuals; we are simply government subjects. Freedom is so closely associated with privacy that if privacy is completely taken away, so is freedom. Crypto is not a right. I wouldn't die for crypto. But I think I would for freedom.

When you said you would rather have zero privacy, it chilled me to the bone. It made me remember Orwell's dystopian novel, 1984.

[Ozero]

...

If the Bank of Russia really introduced such a law, Russia would chase out even China through repression. I think that if Russia's policy goes in this direction, it will soon catch up with even North Korea.
To be honest, I don't know how they want to search for private decentralized addresses, but the idea itself seems scary to me.
Even the high taxes in India are a trivia compared to this.

Finally, some are beginning to see clearly what the Putin regime in Russia is. Because I saw how many welcomed the intentions of Russia (which is based on unknown reasons) to use cryptocurrency to bypass the imposed sanctions. We were glad that in Russia there will finally be a cryptocurrency paradise for people. Paradise maybe, but not for slaves. If Putin and his entourage want to circumvent sanctions with the help of cryptocurrency, they will simply do it and they do not need any laws for this.

The upcoming amendments to the already existing law on digital assets are very characteristic of the Putin regime. Can you imagine what it means to report your secret keys from cryptocurrency wallets to the relevant regulatory authorities under pain of criminal liability? In Russia, there is complete lawlessness of the actions of law enforcement agencies. In this case, their officials will simply transfer any cryptocurrency of citizens to their wallets and say that they do not know anything about it, the citizens, allegedly, have been hacked by unknown hackers. And no one can prove anything to the contrary.

At the same time, more than 80 percent now support Putin's actions to unleash a war in Ukraine and destroy the Ukrainian people. The people of Russia want to have a tsar and be slaves at the same time, and they got it.

[davis196]

I think that we have to distinguish privacy from financial privacy.
Yes,privacy is sacred,but the same thing cannot always be said about financial privacy.
When you don't want to reveal your actual wealth to the government,the government is going to punish you,because you are trying to hide a part of your money and assets from taxation.
Unfortunately,this is the model of crypto regulations that will soon dominate the world.
Banning all non-custodial wallets and making the usage of custodial wallets mandatory.The western countries might soon impose similar regulations.
That doesn't necessarily mean that all crypto users will abide by these new rules.Many people will just move to the darkweb and keep using their non-custodial wallets.

[_act_]

This is not possible, except if they can achieve to ban cryptocurrency entirely in the country

All lies in the hand of the government, if Russia Bankers proposed this and the government accept it and it become law, then no privacy again in Russian partaining to cryptocurrencies as non registered crypto addresses will be seen as illegal and there would be penalties for those that do not comply. This will make especially new crypto users to either use exchanges that is centralized or register their address.

Are they able to determine if somebody stored his crypto assets outside an exchange? They don't know the risk of what they're trying to propose because in case of hack, all of those funds and life savings can be gone on an instant.

According to it, also registered noncustododial wallet address can be used, not only exchanges that are regulated, people can choose to go for a noncustododial wallet but which its address you send funds to are known to the exchanges and specific regulatory organization. But att the same, no privacy at all.

[stompix]

I get that it is not ideal to have absolutely no privacy when you are using crypto, but I rather have zero privacy and allowed crypto usage over privacy but with banned crypto.

And the next step is to have all your cryptos in government controlled wallets, then what do you think will happened next in the country that decided on a whim to exchange all foreign currencies in private accounts to rubles?
Whenever the government wants they will force you to liquidate all your crypto assets in the name of the great patriotic war.

Now that it is out in the open, that means that Russian government can't just make it illegal, what can they do? They can learn all of your crypto and make it a taxable thing as well, that way they wouldn't have to make it illegal.

And they can tax it and at the same time make it illegal to use it as a payment method or to move coins from a personal wallet to another person's wallet, only legal usage to be purchased and sell on government-licensed exchanges.

If the Bank of Russia really introduced such a law, Russia would chase out even China through repression. I think that if Russia's policy goes in this direction, it will soon catch up with even North Korea.

Oh, no, what a thing to say!
The assassinations and jailing of political adversaries, the continuous suicide of journalists and businessmen with 10 bullets in the back, the arrests for holding a black piece of paper were not signs enough that it was on the same path as North Korea it had to ban cryptos to make you realize that.

Many people will just move to the darkweb and keep using their non-custodial wallets.

How much polonium tea can you drink a day without getting sick?

[Blue King]

What I think they are trying to do right now :
Convert all their investments in their national currency and put them in the banks, ban people from taking it out, therby the government would have opportunity to use that money to increase their value as a whole making the situation a little better.
What people are doing:
Buying houses and other investments online through Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies to make sure that they don't go down with their government since they are doing it internationally as well.
What EU and other sanctions have to say about it :
They already said that bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies would be covered in the same rules perse, which means that there is no going out for them. Therefore the only thing left is to use force and try and manipulate people and the market in the effect as well, because they are already doing loads to keep their currency afloat and if people cash out and go to other international banks or countries being neutral in this situation they are going to get a little off the track, right now they are using gold to back everything up.

I agree with you.Because the Russian government does not know which currency to use for its country, the Russian bank legalized cryptocurrency and banned it again.So the people of Russia are in a panic. But if the Russian banks make all their investments in their national currency, the Russian people will be much better off.But I don't think the Russian government will do that.

[DrBeer]

Did you just find out that Russia is a totalitarian country, where freedom, inviolability and private property are empty words?
When these laws were being prepared in Russia, and everyone clapped their hands happily, they say, it’s cooler here than in the West, I warned that it would only benefit the "circle of the elite", for the rest of Russia's biomass - it would, on the contrary, be a new article of the criminal code That's how it all happened. Russia is a very primitive and predictable country.
Soon we are waiting for more forced registration of wallets, wild fines for 1 satoshi, and seizure under any pretext "in favor of the state." Everything will come true, millet wait a bit

[uchegod-21]

I have red in this forum so many times where people say regulation of bitcoin will increase the adoption of bitcoin and make it more stable. I laugh, though those funny comments come from newbies that doesn't understand what is at stake.
If the government will be able to regulate one part of crypto, other parts will bleed.

In my secondary school, I was thought a method of taxation called PAYE - Pay As You Earn. The question is, has government started paying her workers or civil servants with cryptocurrency and they are avoiding to pay tax? If no, what will then warrant the government to make individuals hand their keys in order to disclose how much an individual owns?.

[ajochems]

Russia had no other option to use of crypto currency.They was cornered by the world banking system by the move of Swift action,because Russia’s gas was source for the most of the countries.So they can’t revolts against this,because this leads to the world war.The cause of U.S not directly involved in this was cause of world war,of course the China will join the hand of Russia against U.S.

[Zilon]

The wise will always find a way to stay anonymous. BitBox02 wallets could be the alternative where one have a single seed phrase hold multiple addresses together. Russians can reserve a single address and keep it completely anonymous by not associating it to any centralized exchange this way the have full possession of their coin for as long as the keep it off the centralized exchange

[kryptqnick]

There's a saying that the worst sanctions are those Russia imposes upon itself. It might be far-fetched, but it's funny how Russia is basically following Western sanctions, strengthening them by those of its own. Russia banned Instagram, and it was a huge hit for many Russian users. Russia limited withdrawals of foreign currencies, and reserves in foreign currencies. And while crypto exchanges (foreign major ones) follow sanctions, Russia is possibly about to ban people from keeping money outside exchanges, so is potentially throwing them under the hit of the sanctions.
The war is not in Russia, by the way, it's in Ukraine but conducted by Russia. And I think that this news falls in line with other measures Russia introduced which were related to the war.
You're saying it's the end of privacy, but it's no surprise. Russians, in their vast majority, support their president and support the war, so both internal isolation and tendency toward a totalitarian regime and external pressure of sanctions affect it, and yet the majority clearly won't care. Russians demonstrated very well that freedom isn't a big value for them.