The series of interviews proceeded with a “special one”.
I had the pleasure of interviewing the legendary user and artist
@yogg … the man behind Coldkey™.
We had a long conversation during one of these spring afternoons.
I was able to collect some really interesting ideas and understand many essential aspects for those who follow the world of bitcoin and crypto collectibles.
Thanking him again for the time he dedicated to creating the objects and to this interview ... I wish you all… a good read!
Dear @yogg, as we all know you are an esteemed artist / creator of unique pieces in the world of crypto collectibles. What inspires you the most in creating objects in this sector?Mainly, what I try to accomplish is to create an object with a meaning.
And what I do with Coldkey™ is to put as much meaning as I can in what I do.
Your point of inspiration is a mixture of economic stuff / bitcoin stuff/ different things related the same objects?Yes, it is also "visual art". For example I am very proud of
"halving Coldkey™" realized with
Lucho Poletti.It signifies so many things, just in a single item.
As well as a real halving, the two cards while splitting are giving two different values.
These are the things I try to do, give meaning to things.
I don't see myself just running the software and creating a wallet.
Otherwise it would be just a piece of paper with a label stuck on it!
It must have a meaning, it must have a story. An object that has a certain value in bitcoin inside that reflects the current value in FIAT currency.
We made a release for example
(a big note) with Polymerbit™ which represents a certain amount in btc / represented in currency.
My part in the project was to make the key.
Seeing people's reactions on Coldkey™ I realize that I am doing the right thing.
How many people are involved with your project?For a very long time I have been working alone.
But I decided to have my staff and follow my vision.
Now
@owlcatz help me with customer service.
I also have a friend who sometimes helps with packaging stuff or other real tasks.
How did you start your artist career?I think I've been a collector for a long time.
I have a friend here on the forum that I have known for a long time and we are both crypto collectors. He gives me the idea.
I want to play around technology and to use it to create my art.
Some people are slapping bitcoin symbol and this is a new bitcoin item.
It must have a meaning, it must have a story, every Coldkey™ story has a story behind it that I can tell you about, likewise the history of bitcoin price to the month through the years.
Which is the creation you are most attached to from an emotional point of view?There are few.
Because I like everything that I create from the third halving and the other pieces.
I am hesitating between first release of
Crypto bonds and halving Coldkey™ release.
Regarding crypto bonds, I provided a copy of this to another forum user
test and I am really proud that people get inspiration from my work.
But in general what is more important in my work and I am really proud of it is the integrity of the keys.
There can be several issues like an item shipped late , but everything that could be addressed.
If there is an issue with the keys, we can not address later ! [Laugh…]
Did you follow some special protocol when you generate private keys (likewise glacierprotocol.org?) or did you have your standard operating procedure?Yes absolutely, I made the code by myself. I mean, I generate keys with an open source software peer reviewed and I use several open source libraries. I am doing everything in a computer that has never been connected to internet since setup. And then, there is always the chance to improve, for example by using only optical drives like cd and rewrite team instead using USB key.
Before being a physical maker I am an IT engineer.
As you know Mr Caldwell, (creator of Casascius) decide to come up, your identity has been revealed?Yes, if you look for it you can find my name on the internet, [Patrick C.]
even a picture of me,
It's public information.
I have nothing to hide, this is my career and I am confident in what I am doing.
Crypto is my career. It started with Coldkey™ and who knows where it end.
I don't plan to do anything else other than crypto related stuff in my life. I have a vision of what bitcoin is and I think that it should be made available to as many people as I can.
With a limited supply of bitcoin, the more Coldkey™ that I make hence the more bitcoin I do lock in physicals.
You need to redeem the the private key to access to these bitcoin and you don't want to redeem Coldkey™ private key because this means destroy your Coldkey™ card.
By doing what I do ... I feel that I am trying my way to spread the word about bitcoin. We don't necessarily become just a cold wallet storage. My products try to be meaningful stuff that "could tell a story" about bitcoin and his history.
I also started to make
NFT on Solana where people can get a token to purchase some exclusive Coldkey™.
I mean, I have some plans, I want build prodcut that doesn’t existing otherwhere otherwise
You want to create something new…Yes! I think there are a lot of things to be created.
I think we have to recreate everything in the cryptoway... everything that exists in the regular way of doing things. I think we need to decentralize everything. We need to spread trust, decentralize the trust !
Who knows where it goes! We can imagine a world where people can vote with crypto and blockchain.
This is why I think it's really interesting to become a trusted cryptographic "key" a provider in some way.
This is the end goal. In a world where crypto goes forward I think that people would not trust the production of someone just because "he has a lot of money".
With time the key of Coldkey™ would become trusted like the Casascius™ coin.
I think that if Casascius was still in business he was providing services for companies to make keys or promoting strategies on how to secure the funds.
A lot of companies would go to him for his advice.
Your point is to create a key with some "art" with a meaningYes, if there are companies interested in crypto and want to use crypto and don't know how I can be a point of reference for them and help out proposing solutions.
I am very passionate about this argument.
bitcoin is an innovation that couldn’t be stopped.
Like the sun power you can't take control of it and we are seeing clearly that this is an innovation that goes further than just a monetary value but it is more a technology... I think bitcoin is the first representation of the next technology of the money.
Money has existed for thousands of years. In the beginning people were trading with shells or nuts or maybe some shining rocks. big rocks belong they are trading of ownership
The concept of money for a very long time has been addressed with barter. Then people introduce "precious metals" and then people introduce "paper money" or notes. Then people introduced "plastic money" like credit cards and now we have "network money".
I think it’s just “we cannot go back from bitcoin" . It's a pandora box that has been opened and there is nothing that can be done to kill it. They cannot. I want to push this kind of money that seems more fair to me for people.
What do you think is the future for this sector of bitcoin collectibles?This is a good question. I don't know! What I know is that the future is always a sum of many many possibilities. So what is certain is that one of those possibilities is that USD will not be used anymore in trading/commercially and maybe YUAN will become the new reserve currency.
I think in a similar scenario some people would transact more in bitcoin because of the advantage that it brings.
We know the behavior and that we never see it in a different way as we expected.
Who knows what will happen. So yes, there is a possibility that people find out about collecting bitcoin stuff. And maybe become some kind of hobbies like some baseball cards or collecting stamps. There are still persone that collect hummels.
Who knows what will be valuable and what not in the future.
But my way of thinking keeps working as it's been working since it's started... There is a chance, and high probability that collectibles, physical bitcoin, will become very desidered.
It's funny because like the works of famous painters when they are still alive their works are not worth much. It's just when a famous painter dies that art is going to be recognized. For sure if bitcoin "will succeed" people will try to find such kinds of items.
This is also what I like about the Coldkey™ series because I start with a little unit every month and it remains with such lower limits.
The first release was just 32 units. Now I am realizing 50 units just because they are going to sold out fast.
I will increase the quantity again,
I want more customers in the end, because this is also the way to spread the word about bitcoin/Coldkey™.
Maybe in two or three years I can produce a larger number every month due to the large demands.
This "increase of production" is something similar like other producers have already done?[10 seconds of silence]
I think I am trying to distinguish from other producers even if we have "similar" items. My vision and my background is different from other producers.
I want to play around technology and to use it in order to create my art.
I am not doing some nice thing and slapping the bitcoin logo and this is a new bitcoin item.
The way I look for business is something different from other creators.
An item should have a meaning, a story.
Every production of Coldkey™ that you can mention to me ... has a story! it's not because it was a nice idea! I don't know how to express this feeling but it's something like "the history of the price of bitcoin during the months/years".
Every issue of Coldkey™ is loaded with 50 euros of bitcoin on the first month of the release and there is one release every month.
People are collecting 50 euro of bitcoin with that rate that is changing.
This is telling a story.
I can clearly hear the passion in your words, and it's clearly possible to see it in your work. A silly question... besides being a creator of collectibles, are you also a collector?Yes I am also a collector of bitcoin collectibles and this is how I started.
When did you buy your first crypto collectibles? [What "triggered the spark"?]I saw a picture in a news media… It was 2012.
For a long time when they were talking about bitcoin, they often put a photo of a coin made by Casascius, with the shiny hologram and so on.
Wow this is really really nice!
I created an account on bitcointalk and found the thread made by Casascius and I ordered a few (maybe 2 or 3 coins).
I peeled, I redeemed them very quickly because I am a curious person (and even the value of bitcoin in that time was kind of lower, around 10 euro) asking to myself “how it works” just a piece of paper inside a metal coin? how it communicate?
This is how I started to be involved in crypto and understanding how crypto coins work.
Every new technology is kind of magical that you cannot understand how it works.
As I told you... I am curious and I need to understand things.
Unfortunately [laugh] I peel very fast.
What did you love about this sector? What excites you more about this kind of objects? It's just technology behind the item?Before bitcoin I have always been interested in alternative ways to transfer value …
Before bitcoin there was egold (shut down!) or liberty reserve (shut down!).
From my personal background I have always been interested in alternative ways to work with money.
What I like about collectibles is the idea of spreading bitcoin as well.
Because you make it physical you make it tangible, you lock them, you remove bitcoin from circulation, you lock them into collectibles.
And by doing this process you basically it helps as well with the stability of the price of bitcoin. Bitcoin could work even if just 10 bitcoins are around in circulation.
I just love this technology and I am happy and proud to be an actor in it.
We are already in early stages and I consider crypto very early tech.
From your point of view, what do you think are the objects or types of objects that will have a greater interest or revaluation in the future? [Coins? Drawings? Stamps? Notes? CryptoBonds?]I don’t think there is such a category. I will divide differently.
I think items that are loaded are more valuable than items not loaded.
One things that I noticed following the collectibles section, I don't see a lot of people re-selling my production (Coldkey™) despite I have done already between 2000-3000 Coldkey™
I think I am doing something right. Like I told you before... telling a story.
If you have an item that tells a story people prefer to save it.
Since your broader experience, and knowledge in this sector what advice would you give to those who are entering this sector for the first time?[15 seconds of silence]
I would encourage people to buy trusted collectible items and use them for storage of their coins on it. Because I found that this is one of the best ways for me to hold crypto.
It's easier to spend a wallet despite redeeming coldkeys™.
Even because you resell the coldkeys™ for a higher value respect the bitcoin stored inside.You want to take it intact.
This is a good way to save funds for later. I encourage people to buy physicals.
What to buy? I think the better solution is just to look around and to buy what you like!
Of course buying coldkeys™ (both of us we burst out laughing)
You support the idea to use trusted collectibles as cold wallets?Yes, use collectible likewise Lealana™ or Casascius™ as a cold wallet.
This is the kind of item you want to have if you don't know tech and don't know how to store crypto value in the long term.
Well...This is a serious issue ! How can we handle as collectors the issue related to "not your keys not your coins?" meanwhile you are producing your keys for a third part?
Why should people trust? As a creator, why can I trust you as a producer?Yes, that''s a very good question, what I know for sure is that... if you pile on sensitive data for a long period of time at some point you can become a target , something bad can happen.
This is why I think the only way to prevent this event from happening is just doing ... make sure there is no issue with the integrity of the keys .
For my production purpose I have a machine that is dedicated to destroying certain parts of material that I use to make my cards. It's really a balance between convenience and knowledge because in some ways what Coldkeys™ brings to people are valuable physical items that contain crypto.
We started slowly and we are still going slowly... we don't do items funded with several hundreds of euros.
We don't have items loaded with high amounts of bitcoin, because we are creating objects nowadays. In our time it's something expensive.
We can't know what is going to happen in 10 years from now. Likewise with item produced prices could be lower nowadays and maybe it could be more expensive.
Confidence in our product [coldkey™] will grow since there are no issues with integrity.
I know what I am doing, I am confident with my work, this is my career.
I cannot convince people to trust me. You'll find out on the line that ... you can trust me.
Another important point to be discussed is regarding convenience, because in that way people find a way to store crypto in a simple way.
What is your collection item that you think deserves more attention? [The rarest, the purchase you dreamed of, the one you are most fond of?]First ever coldkey™ that I have made! What do you think could be the “holy grail” of collecting bitcoin/crypto objects? [I will say the "white papers" written by hand by SN][Laughs]
Yes maybe some notes made by Satoshi could be a very interesting stuff
If you mention WP I don't know if he designed it on paper.
When I work on a new design I like to put it on paper, I like to visually have the concept I am going to realize. Use this base to work on it.
If satoshi wrote some idea by hand like the Shakespeare script... is fucking huge! Really sexy to see
Regarding physical items bitcoin Casascius 1000 Btc this is just an insane amount on it.
I think that one day also 1 cent of bitcoin would be "a crazy amount" (likewise 200 years from now)... Absolutely. The beauty with bitcoin is that it allows you to use more decimals. Now we are using 8 digits... it's not impossible to imagine a world where bitcoin can go further!
We cannot increase the amount of bitcoin but we can maybe go further with the same unit of bitcoin! So much value!
As we have mentioned before we have some items that are really expensive. Generally speaking, being a collector is not cheap! Sometimes I have seen mew items sold for 500 USD or even much much more! Do you think this is an hobby "for the rich" or can it be started by "penniless" collectors as well?You are raising an interesting question here.
As I see it, it should not be a hobby reserved for rich people.
I try with Coldkey™ to make it available for everyone.
Inside each product there are 30-50 euro of bitcoin, and including shipping expenses it's a product that is going to be sold at 100 euro.
I think that some people don't need to be rich to spend 100 euros worth of crypto.
I am always trying to sell loaded keys because when a user is going to calculate the price, he can easily have an idea of what he has spent.
Just hold the card and you have made a profit. The barrier to entry is not that high, in the end you are probably able to resell the Coldkey™ with a premium, later on in the future.
I have tried to make it as accessible as possible for everyone and to allow everyone to experience a collection of items that increase in value over time.
This is what I want to sell to people. And this is what is happening.
I am proud because much of my objects
Some items are very rare and researched by people and there are huge wallets. Some collectors are "black holes in space" they aspire a lot of products from the market and you never see them back!
Physical crypto and collectibles should not be reserved to a certain group or a class of people. This is what I am trying to do with Coldkey™, make it available to everyone.
In the end, buyers try to sell later. I think that value should go up.
So we can define such kinds of investments not only as a vanity purchase but as an item that can provide future values?Yes people spend 90 euro and get a collectible with 50 euro of crypto inside.
I think the most important overall is to provide many “opportunities” to people.
There is an interest for a product that has such features, in fact some releases went sold out in 24 hours.
Maybe your product is something different because there is a little premium on it... but what do you think about the dilemma of those who buy items paid for in bitcoin rather than keep bitcoins themselves? [It is the exact opposite of what happens in classic collecting where an inflationary system favors the long-term hodler...]Let's go through an example:
You have 1.5 bitcoin. It increases in value overtime.
In one scenario you keep it in your wallet, in a second scenario you buy 1 btc Casascius coin.
The first scenario, when the bitcoin goes up, you can think of selling a small portion like 0,2 or 0.3. During the time you reduce the amount of bitcoin that you have.
In the end, prices go up and down, maybe you just want to accumulate more, and you try to sell and rebuy. Statistically less people are making profit while doing this.
You might have less money fiat at the end trying to have more bitcoin.
In the second scenario you have just this physical coin. Depends on what you want to do in the long term... if you are focused on profit or something else.
Because you are adopting in the first scenario a risky way.
Of course as many many of us have already said (likewise the CEO of Coinbase) the best strategy is to buy and hold.
I have personally gone several times in the first scenario but then I realized that the only crypto I was holding was related to collectibles.
Because if you have your money in a wallet you're tempted to spend more easily and to take this profit.
It's more complicated to me to peel a coin and redeem physical bitcoin because I know I can get more money for it, if I go through the process of selling it to someone also.
This is a way to force myself to hold a value.
Maybe I can also own some altcoins (likewise less the 1% of my portfolio [laughs]) but yeah... you can also find another way by storing your crypto half on a wallet and half on collectibles.
If you look at the question compared to FIAT money you don't care because you're in profit in any case... we can't know if btc would be more valuable in the future or not.
There is always an incentive to resell this item for a premium and people should be more interested to collect them.
They are forced to be a holder … You can resell for a premium.
People should be more interested just to try to resell because other people are willing to buy them.
At one point we will add one million dollars locked with Coldkey™.
But in any case if someone peels it, items that remain "untouched" will become more rare.
It has been really interesting and a real pleasure, having this meeting and collecting your thoughts, your ideas, your vision. Last but not least if you have some observations / comments / something that you want to add in our interview…Thank you very much for this opportunity and doing this interesting thread, much appreciated.
I want to thank all Coldkey™ collectors for their support.
It means a lot. This is what drives me to build everything back in a more resilient way.
We can bring Coldkey™ to the next level…they way it's happening it's more sophisticated. It means a lot to me and I want to keep providing a meaningful bitcoin physical wallet.
To be honest, I am very grateful to all these people for all their consideration in Coldkey™ and encourage me to keep doing even more awesome stuff in the future.
