Bitcoin Legal Tender in Central African Republic

[Zlantann]

I just came across one of the most interesting articles for Bitcoin today even though it was created years ago. But I just discovered it now so there is one more country that might follow countries like El Salvador and the Central African Republic that have adopted Bitcoin and accept it as legal payment within their countries. Costa Rica could be one of the next countries to adopt bitcoin as a regulated payment method.

This week, Congresswoman Johana Obando introduced legislation to allow bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to function as a form of payment. The bill also proposes that traditional banking institutions can function as crypto exchanges, including safekeeping and wallet services for their customers. Source: https://news.bitcoin.com/costa-rica-might-be-the-next-country-to-establish-bitcoin-as-regulated-currency/

There are some silent but important differences between legal tender and form of payment. A legal tender is a currency that is backed by the law and can be used to make payment for goods and services and can even be used to pay tax. The government also has the right to ban the use of other currencies apart from legal tenders. In El Salvador and Central African Republic Bitcoin is one of their main currencies and can be used to make any payment and citizens are mandated by law to accept it as a form of payment. One can be punished or sanctioned for rejecting it.

The congresswoman is proposing a bill to make Bitcoin a form of payment and not a legal tender. The people are not mandated to accept it by the law but people or companies can decide to use it as a currency or means of payment. Accepting it is optional which means somebody can reject it as currency. The government will make policies to regulate it and as in the case of Costa Rica, it will be highly centralized. Bitcoin is a form of payment in many countries but a legal tender in just two countries.

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[slapper]

I just came across one of the most interesting articles for Bitcoin today even though it was created years ago. But I just discovered it now so there is one more country that might follow countries like El Salvador and the Central African Republic that have adopted Bitcoin and accept it as legal payment within their countries. Costa Rica could be one of the next countries to adopt bitcoin as a regulated payment method.

This week, Congresswoman Johana Obando introduced legislation to allow bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to function as a form of payment. The bill also proposes that traditional banking institutions can function as crypto exchanges, including safekeeping and wallet services for their customers. Source: https://news.bitcoin.com/costa-rica-might-be-the-next-country-to-establish-bitcoin-as-regulated-currency/

There are some silent but important differences between legal tender and form of payment. A legal tender is a currency that is backed by the law and can be used to make payment for goods and services and can even be used to pay tax. The government also has the right to ban the use of other currencies apart from legal tenders. In El Salvador and Central African Republic Bitcoin is one of their main currencies and can be used to make any payment and citizens are mandated by law to accept it as a form of payment. One can be punished or sanctioned for rejecting it.

The congresswoman is proposing a bill to make Bitcoin a form of payment and not a legal tender. The people are not mandated to accept it by the law but people or companies can decide to use it as a currency or means of payment. Accepting it is optional which means somebody can reject it as currency. The government will make policies to regulate it and as in the case of Costa Rica, it will be highly centralized. Bitcoin is a form of payment in many countries but a legal tender in just two countries.

Legal tender, Bitcoin, Congresswoman proposing bills, my head is spinning! What does it all mean? Are we living in a simulation?

But, let's break it down. Legal tender is backed by the law, and you can use it to pay for goods and services, and even taxes. So, if I pay my taxes with Monopoly money, does that count? And, Bitcoin is now a main currency in El Salvador and Central African Republic, and people are mandated by law to accept it. So, if I don't want to accept it, does that mean I have to move to a different country?

But, wait, the congresswoman is proposing a bill to make Bitcoin a form of payment, not a legal tender. So, what does that even mean? Can I pay for my groceries with a hug? In conclusion, let's just embrace the chaos and confusion and use whatever currency we want. After all, money is just a made-up concept, right?

[JayJuanGee]

I just came across one of the most interesting articles for Bitcoin today even though it was created years ago. But I just discovered it now so there is one more country that might follow countries like El Salvador and the Central African Republic that have adopted Bitcoin and accept it as legal payment within their countries. Costa Rica could be one of the next countries to adopt bitcoin as a regulated payment method.

This week, Congresswoman Johana Obando introduced legislation to allow bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to function as a form of payment. The bill also proposes that traditional banking institutions can function as crypto exchanges, including safekeeping and wallet services for their customers. Source: https://news.bitcoin.com/costa-rica-might-be-the-next-country-to-establish-bitcoin-as-regulated-currency/

There are some silent but important differences between legal tender and form of payment. A legal tender is a currency that is backed by the law and can be used to make payment for goods and services and can even be used to pay tax. The government also has the right to ban the use of other currencies apart from legal tenders. In El Salvador and Central African Republic Bitcoin is one of their main currencies and can be used to make any payment and citizens are mandated by law to accept it as a form of payment. One can be punished or sanctioned for rejecting it.

The congresswoman is proposing a bill to make Bitcoin a form of payment and not a legal tender. The people are not mandated to accept it by the law but people or companies can decide to use it as a currency or means of payment. Accepting it is optional which means somebody can reject it as currency. The government will make policies to regulate it and as in the case of Costa Rica, it will be highly centralized. Bitcoin is a form of payment in many countries but a legal tender in just two countries.

Legal tender, Bitcoin, Congresswoman proposing bills, my head is spinning! What does it all mean? Are we living in a simulation?

I doubt that we are living in a simulation, but sure there are good arguments out there to try to suggest that we are.  But whatever, people can believe (or theorize) whatever they wish.  Sometimes some good results come from fantasy-like theories.

Regarding what it all means, you likely need to think a bit moar harder so that you can come up with more answers rather than questions, otherwise it is difficult to take you seriously since you are coming off as a mere troll.. .. of course a bitcoin naysayer, possibly a government/financial institution spook, and/or a shitcoin pumper

But, let's break it down. Legal tender is backed by the law, and you can use it to pay for goods and services, and even taxes. So, if I pay my taxes with Monopoly money, does that count?

You could try to pay with monopoly money and see what happens.  I would imagine that they would just count it as zero, and probably just put penalties upon you, and probably even treat you as someone without any serious intent if you later attempting to get some leniencies when they are maximizing any penalties that they can come up with against you.. (of course, all within their administrative discretion).

And, Bitcoin is now a main currency in El Salvador and Central African Republic, and people are mandated by law to accept it.

aaaahhh, no.

You seem to not have your facts straight.

Each country is different, and the extent to which anyone is "mandated" to accept it will be determined by such country..

Have you heard of national sovereignty?  One aspect of national sovereignty is that they have discretion in terms of some of the ways that they design their laws.  Of course, there are international institutions that sometimes will impose their values/preferences upon sovereign countries, and sometimes there are also agreed-upon international standards, but even if there are some agreed-upon international standards, that would not necessarily mean that every countries definition of legal tender is going to be the same.

Another thing that you may or may not have notice, in the midst of your grifting efforts, is that sometimes there are contradictions even within how the law is stated or how a standard might be described and how it is applied.. so in the context of legal tender laws, we are still likely going to need to look at particulars of the application rather than just presuming and making nonsensical spinning talking-points about the subject matter... which seems to be what you are trying to do.

So, if I don't want to accept it, does that mean I have to move to a different country?

Yes, it does.

But, wait, the congresswoman is proposing a bill to make Bitcoin a form of payment, not a legal tender. So, what does that even mean? Can I pay for my groceries with a hug?

You might be able to pay with some other agreeable form of payment.  I suppose that is up to the mutual agreeability of the parties.

If you have not heard, the barter system has not completely disappeared, but surely there are more formalities in some areas than others in terms of negotiability of either price or form of payment, somewhat context dependent.. Don't you know nuttin?

In conclusion, let's just embrace the chaos and confusion and use whatever currency we want.

If you can get the other party to agree, then sure.  Do what you like.  If you happen to have two chickens, and the other party is willing to trade their cow for your two chickens, then you might have had struck a good deal to have had been able to negotiate such a great deal.

After all, money is just a made-up concept, right?

It's not completely made up.  If you had not heard, or you had not realized, there are several aspects of what makes a good money, so some attributes are more powerful than others, and if you don't have a good grasp of what constitutes good money, then you likely are not going to do very well in life.  A lot of people understand the various concepts of good money and bad money under the dynamics of Gresham's law, even if they might not exactly understand or appreciate what the fuck Gresham's law is, they still understand the principles.  People will understand and appreciate Gresham's law even better if they have currencies in their usage that might not retain their value very well relative to other currencies, so sometimes it might be difficult to know if you are getting screwed by the devaluation of your currency or other aspects of your currency, until you might compare it to other currencies, and then just by getting exposed to those different valuations and the changes in the valuations, it might become more concrete that certain kinds of currencies hold their value better than others and also certain kinds of goods, products or even assets may well hold their value better than others, so sometimes monetary attributes end up getting absorbed into products and assets that were not really designed to be a money (or to have monetary properties), but they end up taking on some of the monetary attributes largely because the money may well not hold or store value very well.

[Woodie]

Total countries in the World: 195

Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2022:
1. El Salvador.
2. Central African Republic

Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2021:
1. El Salvador.

Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2020:
-

... I think we go up parabolic soon

The numbers don't look good if you look at this from a legal tender perspective.. our politicians and lawmakers (including we the people) clearly aren't showing much of the crypto interest to push for such legislation to come into play.

But then again, I get this feeling that its easier to do this if an economy is on the downside and only answers are to introduce external influence to balance the scale such as making bitcoin legal tender... I wonder why stable economies can't/won't have this, could bitcoin destabilize them ?

But between legal tender and not having the crypto  framework in place, I wonder which has the greater impact on adoption...

[DrBeer]

Total countries in the World: 195

Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2022:
1. El Salvador.
2. Central African Republic
Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2021:
1. El Salvador.
Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2020:
-
... I think we go up parabolic soon

May I have one simple question?
Tell me - what has changed in these countries? More precisely, what has improved in the real economy? Has the standard of living risen? Has the economy received an impetus for development? Reduced tax burden? Have the country's gold and foreign exchange reserves increased? Has the number of loans and overdue liabilities decreased?

[Renampun]

Total countries in the World: 195

Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2022:
1. El Salvador.
2. Central African Republic
Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2021:
1. El Salvador.
Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2020:
-
... I think we go up parabolic soon

May I have one simple question?
Tell me - what has changed in these countries? More precisely, what has improved in the real economy? Has the standard of living risen? Has the economy received an impetus for development? Reduced tax burden? Have the country's gold and foreign exchange reserves increased? Has the number of loans and overdue liabilities decreased?

maybe the little excerpt from this article can answer your question.

Asked whether CAR citizens should see the adoption of Bitcoin as a positive or negative thing, Lilacher responded “neither really, because I just can’t see adoption taking off any time soon. But having an alternative to the CFA and sending a signal to France that CAR wants to have more currency independence is a positive in my eyes.”

He added: “However, that can also come with repercussions as there are powerful institutions like the International Monetary Fund, for example, which CAR has to deal with, that are not happy about countries adopting Bitcoin. So there could be challenges that the government will have to deal with.”

source --

CAR is not a developed country, they are classified as a poor country but CAR is a country that is trying to be independent, by adopting bitcoin as legal tender it may not have a direct impact on that country but in the long term, the impact will be very large, as the second country to adopt bitcoin it is hinted that CAR is a country that has a strong vision of the future.

[delfastTions]

The situation with CAR refusal to legalize bitcoin was accepted by the government of this country for several reasons. 
First of all, the country itself is very poor and about 80% of the population needs humanitarian assistance.  In addition, about 80% of the population live without electricity.  And of course, almost nowhere, except for the capital Bangui, there is no Internet access. 
Also, international organizations, UN and  IMF reacted negatively to the Bitcoin legalization law adopted in CAR in 2022. 
As a result, this country simply does not have a set of necessary conditions for mass Bitcoin payments.  Nevertheless, as I understand it, both the President of the Republic of Faustin-Archange Touadéra and the Parliament of the Republic as a whole have a good attitude towards cryptocurrencies and even try to use some of their tokens (Sango token) for different purposes. 

CAR example shows that not all countries can effectively legalize bitcoin payments.  All the same, there must be at least a certain minimum level of technological development and the necessary level of education of the population. 
By the way, in some African countries the conditions are much more suitable.  For example in Nigeria.  And there I think the process of accepting bitcoin payments will go much faster. 
Well, CAR will simply remain in the history of the African continent as the first country to try to legalize bitcoin.

[dothebeats]

Total countries in the World: 195

Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2022:
1. El Salvador.
2. Central African Republic
Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2021:
1. El Salvador.
Countries accepting bitcoin as legal tender in 2020:
-
... I think we go up parabolic soon

May I have one simple question?
Tell me - what has changed in these countries? More precisely, what has improved in the real economy? Has the standard of living risen? Has the economy received an impetus for development? Reduced tax burden? Have the country's gold and foreign exchange reserves increased? Has the number of loans and overdue liabilities decreased?

To be honest with you, as I was doing research to answer your question I too am curious about the current status of El Salvador after accepting Bitcoin as a legal tender, I was expecting good changes but all I got are pretty bad ones. Here are the three things I found (which I hope answers your questions):

1. Credit agencies downgraded El Salvador's creditworthiness. This means that credit agencies see it as a great risk for them to lend money to El Salvador and hence higher interest rate is given to any debt acquired by the people of El Salvador. (Source: https://tomorrow.city/a/el-salvador-bitcoin-legal-tender#:~:text=As%20a%20result%2C%20shortly%20after,debt%20acquired%20from%20now%20on.)

2. In reality, despite the law mandates all firms to accept Bitcoin, only 20% do so. People in El Salvador still highly prefers to keep their money in cash rather than Bitcoin. 88% of firms convert their Bitcoin into cash. (Source: https://www.nber.org/digest/202207/el-salvadors-experiment-bitcoin-legal-tender)

3. A lot of complaints are being stated by businessmen and the general population of El Salvador such as the Bitcoin ATM being too far away, the government helpline being slow, and the price being too volatile. These issues result in most businesses giving up on Bitcoin and reverting back to cash transactions. (Source: https://restofworld.org/2022/el-salvador-bitcoin/)

I'm sure a more compound and precise answer can be found regarding your question, but I thought giving you a few examples of the situations currently happening after El Salvador's legalization of Bitcoin may give you a good insight.

[delfastTions]

~ snip ~

I'm sure a more compound and precise answer can be found regarding your question, but I thought giving you a few examples of the situations currently happening after El Salvador's legalization of Bitcoin may give you a good insight.

Dear colleague! 
This topic is more about CAR and possibly bitcoin in African countries.

However, the text you wrote is valuable for the discussion, but it should be moved to a topic discussing the adoption of BTC in El Salvador. 

Maybe it would be right to duplicate this post in the corresponding topic.

[coupable]

The situation with CAR refusal to legalize bitcoin was accepted by the government of this country for several reasons. 
First of all, the country itself is very poor and about 80% of the population needs humanitarian assistance.  In addition, about 80% of the population live without electricity.  And of course, almost nowhere, except for the capital Bangui, there is no Internet access. 
Also, international organizations, UN and  IMF reacted negatively to the Bitcoin legalization law adopted in CAR in 2022. 
As a result, this country simply does not have a set of necessary conditions for mass Bitcoin payments.  Nevertheless, as I understand it, both the President of the Republic of Faustin-Archange Touadéra and the Parliament of the Republic as a whole have a good attitude towards cryptocurrencies and even try to use some of their tokens (Sango token) for different purposes. 

CAR example shows that not all countries can effectively legalize bitcoin payments.  All the same, there must be at least a certain minimum level of technological development and the necessary level of education of the population. 
By the way, in some African countries the conditions are much more suitable.  For example in Nigeria.  And there I think the process of accepting bitcoin payments will go much faster. 
Well, CAR will simply remain in the history of the African continent as the first country to try to legalize bitcoin.

I can understand the government in Central Africa wanting to find an alternative to the CFA franc through which France colonized them. Their choice of the most advanced monetary system may seem exaggerated since they rushed to make the decision without prior preparations for what this would require in terms of the necessary infrastructure. But it may also be that they did not have better opportunities, and this is understandable since France controls all of the country’s production of gold and resources, and therefore they cannot issue an independent currency or use any other currency. According to the system imposed by France, all revenues from the country’s exports in dollars go to France, which gives them a CFA franc in return, which is only valid in the Central African region.

[DrBeer]

May I have one simple question?
Tell me - what has changed in these countries? More precisely, what has improved in the real economy? Has the standard of living risen? Has the economy received an impetus for development? Reduced tax burden? Have the country's gold and foreign exchange reserves increased? Has the number of loans and overdue liabilities decreased?

To be honest with you, as I was doing research to answer your question I too am curious about the current status of El Salvador after accepting Bitcoin as a legal tender, I was expecting good changes but all I got are pretty bad ones. Here are the three things I found (which I hope answers your questions):

1. Credit agencies downgraded El Salvador's creditworthiness. This means that credit agencies see it as a great risk for them to lend money to El Salvador and hence higher interest rate is given to any debt acquired by the people of El Salvador. (Source: https://tomorrow.city/a/el-salvador-bitcoin-legal-tender#:~:text=As%20a%20result%2C%20shortly%20after,debt%20acquired%20from%20now%20on.)

2. In reality, despite the law mandates all firms to accept Bitcoin, only 20% do so. People in El Salvador still highly prefers to keep their money in cash rather than Bitcoin. 88% of firms convert their Bitcoin into cash. (Source: https://www.nber.org/digest/202207/el-salvadors-experiment-bitcoin-legal-tender)

3. A lot of complaints are being stated by businessmen and the general population of El Salvador such as the Bitcoin ATM being too far away, the government helpline being slow, and the price being too volatile. These issues result in most businesses giving up on Bitcoin and reverting back to cash transactions. (Source: https://restofworld.org/2022/el-salvador-bitcoin/)

I'm sure a more compound and precise answer can be found regarding your question, but I thought giving you a few examples of the situations currently happening after El Salvador's legalization of Bitcoin may give you a good insight.

Unfortunately the problem is that there will be no positive answer.....
First of all, you need to understand that bitcoin/blockchain is not money, it is a TECHNOLOGY.
Next...
First of all - the point is that bitcoin is not "Harry Potter's magic wand", when with one stroke something "unlikeable" can be turned into "beautiful"  
Secondly - you can't cure the economy by simply changing the means of payment.
Thirdly - for any economy, the lack of the ability to issue additional funds is a huge problem.
Fourth - volatility ....

All this clearly says - bitcoin can't help improve the standard of living of the population or fix the economy.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out

Unfortunately the problem is that there will be no positive answer.....
First of all, you need to understand that bitcoin/blockchain is not money, it is a TECHNOLOGY.

You likely need to learn more about bitcoin.  Sure it employs technology in a way that is a kind of money and it is already successful in that direction, and if you actually think about the properties of money then bitcoin seems to be amongst the best of monies that the world has ever experienced.. still in its early days..

You can argue all you like about technology and blah blah blah.. and such arguments would probably show that you are confusing what bitcoin is and maybe even getting bogged down in various shitcoin ideas rather than figuring out bitcoin first in terms of what it has done and the various ways that the incentives and the adoption increasing network effects are playing out.

Next...
First of all - the point is that bitcoin is not "Harry Potter's magic wand", when with one stroke something "unlikeable" can be turned into "beautiful"  

You are likely right that bitcoin cannot fix all problems... even though there are a lot of ways that money is screwed up in the world, and likely having a kind of sound money could go in the right direction towards making some things better, but yeah, it would not be automatically fixing  some of the screwed up things in the world.

Secondly - you can't cure the economy by simply changing the means of payment.

There are several benefits regarding having sound money (like bitcoin) available, so yeah, there may well be other work that needs to be carried out, but sound money does likely improve incentives in some of the ways that traditional monies around the world have a lot of problems and corruptions.

Thirdly - for any economy, the lack of the ability to issue additional funds is a huge problem.

You seem to just be presuming that the current system of various governments issuing currencies is the way forward.  Likely you are failing/refusing to think about the matter with enough of an imagination... which likely shows that you do not seem to understand how some of the various perverted ways that money printing is a problem and how it ends up choosing winners/losers and robbing from the overall population.. but your mind seems to be stuck in a kind of thinking that starts from working within the current system to try to figure out how to tweak it. rather than realizing that the printing of money is problematic.. even when governments exercise restraint, they end up trapped into bailing themselves out by printing.

Fourth - volatility ....

Of course, bitcoin is still pretty damned new, so Bitcoin's volatility so far,  is generally going up.. (especially if you zoom out a bit and look), so upward volatility is likely a part of a transferring of wealth from those who get it from those who do not get it, and yeah there is also speculation that is involved in such a process, and so earlier adopters are likely going to be advantaged more than later adopters and also those who invest into bitcoin in moderate ways that are within their means are likely going to be better off than those who do not sufficiently balance their level of aggressiveness in terms of making sure that they sufficiently/adequately protect themselves... not to get reckt.  

If you consider the matter, we are likely witnessing the greatest peaceful transfer of wealth that man has ever experienced that is also available to the masses, and this kind of a wealth transfer is not going to happen without a few battles along the way.. so hopefully you are not missing out on this, even if you might not have very much discretionary income, and so sometimes there is a need to make sure that you are investing into bitcoin with discretionary income and if you do not have very much of it, then you have to be careful not to overdo it, while at the same time making sure that you do not get mislead into thinking that you should not be at least be attempting to invest what you can into bitcoin.

All this clearly says - bitcoin can't help improve the standard of living of the population or fix the economy.

You surely have not clearly said that...even though you made several fantasy-landia arguments in regards to your denial of the power of bitcoin, and hopefully, you have not failed/refused to make sure that you have some bitcoin instead of fucking around and seeming to be trying to persuade others that bitcoin is not any good, when you seem to either be just making shit up or just talking from a place of quite a bit of ignorance (while acting like you know what you are talking about).

[serveria.com]

May I have one simple question?
Tell me - what has changed in these countries? More precisely, what has improved in the real economy? Has the standard of living risen? Has the economy received an impetus for development? Reduced tax burden? Have the country's gold and foreign exchange reserves increased? Has the number of loans and overdue liabilities decreased?

To be honest with you, as I was doing research to answer your question I too am curious about the current status of El Salvador after accepting Bitcoin as a legal tender, I was expecting good changes but all I got are pretty bad ones. Here are the three things I found (which I hope answers your questions):

1. Credit agencies downgraded El Salvador's creditworthiness. This means that credit agencies see it as a great risk for them to lend money to El Salvador and hence higher interest rate is given to any debt acquired by the people of El Salvador. (Source: https://tomorrow.city/a/el-salvador-bitcoin-legal-tender#:~:text=As%20a%20result%2C%20shortly%20after,debt%20acquired%20from%20now%20on.)

2. In reality, despite the law mandates all firms to accept Bitcoin, only 20% do so. People in El Salvador still highly prefers to keep their money in cash rather than Bitcoin. 88% of firms convert their Bitcoin into cash. (Source: https://www.nber.org/digest/202207/el-salvadors-experiment-bitcoin-legal-tender)

3. A lot of complaints are being stated by businessmen and the general population of El Salvador such as the Bitcoin ATM being too far away, the government helpline being slow, and the price being too volatile. These issues result in most businesses giving up on Bitcoin and reverting back to cash transactions. (Source: https://restofworld.org/2022/el-salvador-bitcoin/)

I'm sure a more compound and precise answer can be found regarding your question, but I thought giving you a few examples of the situations currently happening after El Salvador's legalization of Bitcoin may give you a good insight.

Unfortunately the problem is that there will be no positive answer.....
First of all, you need to understand that bitcoin/blockchain is not money, it is a TECHNOLOGY.
Next...
First of all - the point is that bitcoin is not "Harry Potter's magic wand", when with one stroke something "unlikeable" can be turned into "beautiful"  
Secondly - you can't cure the economy by simply changing the means of payment.
Thirdly - for any economy, the lack of the ability to issue additional funds is a huge problem.
Fourth - volatility ....

All this clearly says - bitcoin can't help improve the standard of living of the population or fix the economy.

Well, it can, in a way... Bitcoin can help attract foreign investors who are looking for a quiet Bitcoin-friendly place, perhaps for retirement. Remember Bitcoin City project in El Salvador?   

[DrBeer]

.....

I could argue with you at length, and I could make arguments, but-- I don't see the point. A good answer to prove YOUR point would be a detailed answer, with concrete data, to my simple question: name the country/countries where the introduction of bitcoin as a domestic currency (we both understand the difference between currency and means of payment) has helped solve economic problems, change the situation for the better, and improve economic performance.
I admit that I was wrong, and you are right only in the case of: the name of at least 1 country, and the real indicators of the economy before the introduction of bitcoin and indicators of the economy and living standards of the population, after the introduction of bitcoin ? And of course it must be a real country, with a real economy !
Otherwise - your long post is just your fantasy - don't take offense

PS I've known bitcoin for a long time, and earlier I also "hovered in the clouds", thinking that here is a new financial system for the world, ideal !... Then "came down to earth", sorted out the reality, and ... Now I adhere to a slightly different position

[JayJuanGee]

.

I could argue with you at length, and I could make arguments, but-- I don't see the point. A good answer to prove YOUR point would be a detailed answer, with concrete data, to my simple question: name the country/countries where the introduction of bitcoin as a domestic currency (we both understand the difference between currency and means of payment) has helped solve economic problems, change the situation for the better, and improve economic performance.

Get the fuck out of here.

I don't have any burden or obligation to try to make any kind of case to establish that bitcoin has improved some country in order to make my earlier point that was largely asserting that your earlier post was full of shit.  You are the one who has the burden to prove your case rather than me.

I admit that I was wrong, and you are right only in the case of: the name of at least 1 country, and the real indicators of the economy before the introduction of bitcoin and indicators of the economy and living standards of the population, after the introduction of bitcoin ? And of course it must be a real country, with a real economy !

Again, there is no need for me to make any argument about anything or to point to anything.  Bitcoin is a world-wide phenomena and there are several countries around the world that are taking bitcoin into account, with various kinds of legislation, various  levels of allowance and disallowance, and little by little bitcoin is seeping into all countries... it is like a grass roots up phenomena or like a trojan horse.. little by little is going to continue to eat away at all the inferior monies around the world and its various network effects are going to continue to grow and build.

Otherwise - your long post is just your fantasy - don't take offense

This does not make any sense.  I was not setting forth any vision.  I was merely responding to your various mostly illogical points.
 

PS I've known bitcoin for a long time, and earlier I also "hovered in the clouds", thinking that here is a new financial system for the world, ideal !... Then "came down to earth", sorted out the reality, and ... Now I adhere to a slightly different position

Let's try to deal with the what is going on rather than making shit up. 

Bitcoin is what it is, and it has been in existence for nearly 15 years and growing the whole time, and you can call it whatever you like, but to me it seems to be ongoingly growing.   Do what you like, and have whatever perception that you like.  Hopefully, if you have a decent time longer to live, then you are not too late
to get some in case it catches on a bit more than it already has.  But hey, again, you can do what you like in terms of whether to get into bitcoin and if so how much to get in.  If you choose to continue to stay out, then that's your choice, too.

[DrBeer]

Well, it can, in a way... Bitcoin can help attract foreign investors who are looking for a quiet Bitcoin-friendly place, perhaps for retirement. Remember Bitcoin City project in El Salvador?   

The example would be good if it were not "synthetic", or rather "laboratory".  Yes, I agree - you can create a limited society where bitcoin (or any altcoin) becomes the state currency, and this "quasi-state" will attract crypto-geeks. But that's not a real economy in an unreal country. That's where the whole problem lies...

[DrBeer]

.

I could argue with you at length, and I could make arguments, but-- I don't see the point. A good answer to prove YOUR point would be a detailed answer, with concrete data, to my simple question: name the country/countries where the introduction of bitcoin as a domestic currency (we both understand the difference between currency and means of payment) has helped solve economic problems, change the situation for the better, and improve economic performance.

Get the fuck out of here.

I don't have any burden or obligation to try to make any kind of case to establish that bitcoin has improved some country in order to make my earlier point that was largely asserting that your earlier post was full of shit.  You are the one who has the burden to prove your case rather than me.

I admit that I was wrong, and you are right only in the case of: the name of at least 1 country, and the real indicators of the economy before the introduction of bitcoin and indicators of the economy and living standards of the population, after the introduction of bitcoin ? And of course it must be a real country, with a real economy !

Again, there is no need for me to make any argument about anything or to point to anything.  Bitcoin is a world-wide phenomena and there are several countries around the world that are taking bitcoin into account, with various kinds of legislation, various  levels of allowance and disallowance, and little by little bitcoin is seeping into all countries... it is like a grass roots up phenomena or like a trojan horse.. little by little is going to continue to eat away at all the inferior monies around the world and its various network effects are going to continue to grow and build.

Otherwise - your long post is just your fantasy - don't take offense

This does not make any sense.  I was not setting forth any vision.  I was merely responding to your various mostly illogical points.
 

PS I've known bitcoin for a long time, and earlier I also "hovered in the clouds", thinking that here is a new financial system for the world, ideal !... Then "came down to earth", sorted out the reality, and ... Now I adhere to a slightly different position

Let's try to deal with the what is going on rather than making shit up. 

Bitcoin is what it is, and it has been in existence for nearly 15 years and growing the whole time, and you can call it whatever you like, but to me it seems to be ongoingly growing.   Do what you like, and have whatever perception that you like.  Hopefully, if you have a decent time longer to live, then you are not too late
to get some in case it catches on a bit more than it already has.  But hey, again, you can do what you like in terms of whether to get into bitcoin and if so how much to get in.  If you choose to continue to stay out, then that's your choice, too.

I didn't expect any other answer  

The best proof of my rightness, your hysterical, embittered outbursts, without any argumentation and attempts to explain your point of view ...

In general, this is the "normal" position of fans of fairy tales and delusions - to believe in what they want, but at the same time wildly hate and deny reality At the same time, not a single fan of such fairy tales, for all the time when I ask similar questions, could not give a single more or less real argument in favor of his blind faith. So, once again - your position and "arguments", are "normal"

[SmartGold01]

name the country/countries where the introduction of bitcoin as a domestic currency (we both understand the difference between currency and means of payment) has helped solve economic problems, change the situation for the better, and improve economic performance.
I admit that I was wrong, and you are right only in the case of: the name of at least 1 country, and the real indicators of the economy before the introduction of bitcoin and indicators of the economy and living standards of the population, after the introduction of bitcoin ? And of course it must be a real country, with a real economy !

Do we need to be proven first to know that the advent of bitcoin has really help people around their inhabitants?
Yes naturally bitcoin hasn't changed or stopped any economy crisis but I can say that since the introduction of bitcoin it has reduced the unemployment rate in most of the Africans countries especially "Nigeria" I can imagine series of men involving themselves into bitcoin trade, while some in one way involved themselves into freelancing jobs and they got paid through bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency out there.

There are some people who are opportunist, they ventured into bitcoin investment at the appropriate time and today they are one way or the other made, I think it's a good example to say introduction of bitcoin has really help in reducing and eradicating (eradicates) the unemployment rate in the globe especially those countries that is found fully involved in bitcoin usage ( these include: trading, investment, mining etc).

For bitcoin to be introduced as a local currency it would be something that is globally legalized as a means of payment and even as that I don't think that could easily eliminate fiat in their position rather it could be an additional payment options instead of replacing fiat entirely. Between I can't see any digital currency to be a competitor of fiat rather seem to act collectively to scale up the means of payment method as they works together as one currency.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

So, once again - your position and "arguments", are "normal"

Don't you have everything figured out so well.

Since you seems to be a no coiner, if you don't change your position in the next 10 years, you are likely going to be looking quite foolish.

No guarantees of course, but if you choose to stay a no coiner for the next 10 years and fail/refuse to get off of zero, then good luck, you are going to need it.

name the country/countries where the introduction of bitcoin as a domestic currency (we both understand the difference between currency and means of payment) has helped solve economic problems, change the situation for the better, and improve economic performance.
I admit that I was wrong, and you are right only in the case of: the name of at least 1 country, and the real indicators of the economy before the introduction of bitcoin and indicators of the economy and living standards of the population, after the introduction of bitcoin ? And of course it must be a real country, with a real economy !

Do we need to be proven first to know that the advent of bitcoin has really help people around their inhabitants?
Yes naturally bitcoin hasn't changed or stopped any economy crisis but I can say that since the introduction of bitcoin it has reduced the unemployment rate in most of the Africans countries especially "Nigeria" I can imagine series of men involving themselves into bitcoin trade, while some in one way involved themselves into freelancing jobs and they got paid through bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency out there.

There are some people who are opportunist, they ventured into bitcoin investment at the appropriate time and today they are one way or the other made, I think it's a good example to say introduction of bitcoin has really help in reducing and eradicating (eradicates) the unemployment rate in the globe especially those countries that is found fully involved in bitcoin usage ( these include: trading, investment, mining etc).

For bitcoin to be introduced as a local currency it would be something that is globally legalized as a means of payment and even as that I don't think that could easily eliminate fiat in their position rather it could be an additional payment options instead of replacing fiat entirely. Between I can't see any digital currency to be a competitor of fiat rather seem to act collectively to scale up the means of payment method as they works together as one currency.

It is good to attempt to develop bitcoin related skills that might go beyond merely buying bitcoin, and it may not even be necessary to develop any bitcoin related skills beyond merely making sure that you don't lose your coins.

Otherwise getting involved in bitcoin may well be bonus skills  -that may additionally help out people who learn those skills, but again there is likely going to continue to be a lot of individual variation regarding the extent to which bitcoin skills are developed beyond merely buying and holding bitcoin...there is also risk that comes from engaging in businesses that could cause someone who might have otherwise been bitcoin profitable to not be profitable because of engaging in a business... and I am not necessarily not to engage in those kinds of activities, because engaging in bitcoin related businesses, may well end up contributing towards compounding of the returns..

Of course, there are likely various countries, including several in Africa in which there are not very many banking services, so bitcoin surely could provide opportunities on broad levels that are otherwise not easily available to the regular population.

[DrBeer]

name the country/countries where the introduction of bitcoin as a domestic currency (we both understand the difference between currency and means of payment) has helped solve economic problems, change the situation for the better, and improve economic performance.
I admit that I was wrong, and you are right only in the case of: the name of at least 1 country, and the real indicators of the economy before the introduction of bitcoin and indicators of the economy and living standards of the population, after the introduction of bitcoin ? And of course it must be a real country, with a real economy !

Do we need to be proven first to know that the advent of bitcoin has really help people around their inhabitants?
Yes naturally bitcoin hasn't changed or stopped any economy crisis but I can say that since the introduction of bitcoin it has reduced the unemployment rate in most of the Africans countries especially "Nigeria" I can imagine series of men involving themselves into bitcoin trade, while some in one way involved themselves into freelancing jobs and they got paid through bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency out there.

There are some people who are opportunist, they ventured into bitcoin investment at the appropriate time and today they are one way or the other made, I think it's a good example to say introduction of bitcoin has really help in reducing and eradicating (eradicates) the unemployment rate in the globe especially those countries that is found fully involved in bitcoin usage ( these include: trading, investment, mining etc).

For bitcoin to be introduced as a local currency it would be something that is globally legalized as a means of payment and even as that I don't think that could easily eliminate fiat in their position rather it could be an additional payment options instead of replacing fiat entirely. Between I can't see any digital currency to be a competitor of fiat rather seem to act collectively to scale up the means of payment method as they works together as one currency.

ANY speculative business provides "new jobs". The problem is different - these jobs do not create the real sector of the economy, do not create added value. And if you also take into account the volatility of bitcoin - then answer this question: those some Nigerians who started making money by selling bitcoin to their fellow citizens for 60,000 dollars, what did they do with them? Honestly, without embellishments ? I am not going to give a graph of bitcoin value here, but whoever bought bitcoin "thanks" to these "working men" in November 2021 or April 2022 now have what ? That's right - half as much money. Understand - speculation brings income to some at the expense of losses of others. So the topic from one side is positive, but if you look from all sides - not everything is so positive ... If bitcoin is so good and gives easy to earn - why you do not deal only with it, and did not build your business empire ?