Bitcoin Legal Tender in Central African Republic

[DVlog]

Another thing in regards to position size, maybe it is the case that they are ONLY able to really put 1% to 5% of their countries investment portfolio into bitcoin kinds of building, and maybe their country is in such a disarray that they might not even be in a position to put more than 1% of their investment portfolio into bitcoin or bitcoin-related (bitcoin-focused) projects because they have to deal with getting their own house in order prior to being more aggressive in their bitcoin approach (so that they don't devolve into gambling and/or overdoing it), and so they need to assess their own situation in order to make sure that their position size does not end up contributing to their getting taken out of the bitcoin game (investment) because they had overdone it rather than being able to stick through the rough times, as you already pointed out, @slapper.

You have pointed out a reasonable factor that could have influenced the CAR government choice to discontinue Bitcoin usage. Additionally, It is possible that CAR government were unable to readjust their position of Bitcoin holding due to financial limitations. Additionally, the presence of inadequate infrastructure and lack of Bitcoin education also likely played substantial roles. Considering that only 10% of the country's population has internet access and relatively low level of social media engagement, a vital platform for spreading awareness about Bitcoin.

It is important to recognize that, despite the challenges, African nations represent most fertile grounds for Bitcoin initiation and advancement.
https://finserving.com/cryptocurrency/why-did-bitcoin-as-legal-tender-fail-in-central-african-republic

Those seem to be different reasons than what I tried to say...

I was largely trying to say that it is a matter of position size and moderation rather than pushing too much too soon.. so there is no reason for CAR to be a failure except that they were likely gambling rather than engaging in an attempt at a prudent investment strategy... the same with individuals who get into bitcoin without an adequate view of their timeline and attempt to invest in a way that is gradually building up the bitcoin position over several years, and perhaps several cycles if your finances might already be on shaky grounds, then you have to build your various finances while you are investing in bitcoin... so if someone, some institution or some government recks themselves from the way that they invested in bitcoin, then one of the ways to recovery is to start back up more slowly and with a smaller position size and maybe even expand the investment time horizon from 4-10 years and start to plan out 10-20 years or more.. which may well continue to mean building and growing in bitcoin small in order NOT to overdo it and ONLY with cash that you can afford to lose... but still nothing wrong with being somewhat aggressive in your investment as long as you do not over do it..

Every person, institution and/or government has a variety of defects, so both you, Sayeds56, and that article seem to want to blame CAR's defects for their failure to be successful in bitcoin, and of course, they have defects just like we all have defects, so maybe in stead of buying $100s of millions in bitcoin, just start out with 1 bitcoin a day or 5 bitcoin a week more something more modest and manageable, and perhaps later on, then work their way up to higher amounts, after getting their shit together.

Yeah, they should plan for 10 to 20 years of adoption. For the time being, they could have accumulated more bitcoin slowly, taken some necessary steps to adapt bitcoin in their society, and spread awareness. The technology bitcoin uses is relatively new, so CAR could work with them to educate their people about security concerns and take steps to mitigate them. They could develop some regulations to protect their consumers from scams and other fraud activity, or they could help the public agencies investigate these matters to help the law and enforcement agencies. CAR could work with the private sector to develop bitcoin-centric businesses and services to create more jobs. There was potential for an economic boost for that nation, but it seems they failed to take it.

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[wmaurik]

I agree. Bitcoin has become an interesting hot topic and this is a reality on the ground that I often see and feel. So the question is what is the solution other than education, because when we talk about investment BTC its intrinsic value is one of the benchmarks in assessing the price, innovation and technology behind it, so many are interested and many fail in managing it due to price volatility and transaction times which cannot be predicted with certainty especially if we frequently short sell and make we losses may extend far beyond we initial investment, yes, This something that is very important to consider, especially with Bitcoin.

It's actually quite simple to understand this, because if you are not used to holding or owning Bitcoin for a long time. It looks like you need to train your patience in holding Bitcoin and have the feeling to keep holding it for the long term rather than continuing to do short sells which in terms of profits may be very small. But in the discussion about Bitcoin Legal Tender in Central African Republic, actually there still needs to be something called education before investing that is not accompanied by knowledge. Because there are probably still a lot of beginners out there who don't know in detail about the technology involved in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

[DYING_S0UL]

Another thing in regards to position size, maybe it is the case that they are ONLY able to really put 1% to 5% of their countries investment portfolio into bitcoin kinds of building, and maybe their country is in such a disarray that they might not even be in a position to put more than 1% of their investment portfolio into bitcoin or bitcoin-related (bitcoin-focused) projects because they have to deal with getting their own house in order prior to being more aggressive in their bitcoin approach (so that they don't devolve into gambling and/or overdoing it), and so they need to assess their own situation in order to make sure that their position size does not end up contributing to their getting taken out of the bitcoin game (investment) because they had overdone it rather than being able to stick through the rough times, as you already pointed out, @slapper.

You have pointed out a reasonable factor that could have influenced the CAR government choice to discontinue Bitcoin usage. Additionally, It is possible that CAR government were unable to readjust their position of Bitcoin holding due to financial limitations. Additionally, the presence of inadequate infrastructure and lack of Bitcoin education also likely played substantial roles. Considering that only 10% of the country's population has internet access and relatively low level of social media engagement, a vital platform for spreading awareness about Bitcoin.

It is important to recognize that, despite the challenges, African nations represent most fertile grounds for Bitcoin initiation and advancement.

https://finserving.com/cryptocurrency/why-did-bitcoin-as-legal-tender-fail-in-central-african-republic

I'm waiting for my country to adopt it Crypto. But don't know if I'll happen in this lifetime. It's still illegal to use in my place, though we are still using it secretly to provide for our families. There isn't much possibility for spreading crypto knowledge either. The government fears this new technology. As it can be much much volatile & sometimes unpredictable. Also it is untraceable. With all that, there isn't much progress. But in CAR I think making plans for long term will be their advantage. With crypto knowledge/education and spreading awareness, yes it will be successful. Talking your first step is the most important thing, which CAR already took. It is now a matter of time before they reach other crypto/bitcoin adopted countries.

[Sayeds56]

Yeah, they should plan for 10 to 20 years of adoption. For the time being, they could have accumulated more bitcoin slowly, taken some necessary steps to adapt bitcoin in their society, and spread awareness. The technology bitcoin uses is relatively new, so CAR could work with them to educate their people about security concerns and take steps to mitigate them. They could develop some regulations to protect their consumers from scams and other fraud activity, or they could help the public agencies investigate these matters to help the law and enforcement agencies. CAR could work with the private sector to develop bitcoin-centric businesses and services to create more jobs. There was potential for an economic boost for that nation, but it seems they failed to take it.

Certainly, as you pointed out, it would have been effective and efficient approach prior to Bitcoin adoption to continue accumulating Bitcoin by utilizing Dollar Cost Averaging (DCA) strategy for extended period of time. Capitalizing on every price downturn whenever they occur. Simultaneously taking initiatives to educate the people about Bitcoin technology and expansion of infrastructure, like increasing internet accessibility nationwide.

Indeed, we as Bitcoin enthusiasts appreciate the courage of African nations for taking bold step of Bitcoin adoption. Nevertheless, it is important to undertake essential preparations to avoid any unpleasant outcome from such decision.

  

[armanda90]

Adopting bitcoin as legal payment tender is very good ideas because make some country more popular and many tourist will interested going to the country have easily with payment transaction without need to convert their money with local fiat currency. Many speculated with some country when adopting Bitcoin as payment currency will make their fiat payment not popular and will left by citizen, I think is wrong perception because Bitcoin dominance or becoming legal payment currency will not loss opportunity with local fiat become payment transaction.
I am glad with Central African Republic have been legal Bitcoin as payment tender although not really popular with this country, but believing one or two years later that country will be interested and more popular how to make tourist when going there and feel easily using bitcoin as payment transaction.

[martinex]

I agree. Bitcoin has become an interesting hot topic and this is a reality on the ground that I often see and feel. So the question is what is the solution other than education, because when we talk about investment BTC its intrinsic value is one of the benchmarks in assessing the price, innovation and technology behind it, so many are interested and many fail in managing it due to price volatility and transaction times which cannot be predicted with certainty especially if we frequently short sell and make we losses may extend far beyond we initial investment, yes, This something that is very important to consider, especially with Bitcoin.

It's actually quite simple to understand this, because if you are not used to holding or owning Bitcoin for a long time. It looks like you need to train your patience in holding Bitcoin and have the feeling to keep holding it for the long term rather than continuing to do short sells which in terms of profits may be very small. But in the discussion about Bitcoin Legal Tender in Central African Republic, actually there still needs to be something called education before investing that is not accompanied by knowledge. Because there are probably still a lot of beginners out there who don't know in detail about the technology involved in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

That's right, it's simple and very clear. However, for Bitcoin Legal Tender in the Central African Republic, what needs to be addressed is education for the lower middle class because if the understanding of BTC is not clarified then the perception of BTC will continue to be gray, which will increase the intensity of skepticism in the mainstream of society there who may think that the Bitcoin market is very changes rapidly, making it difficult to fully understand it, even with a good education.

Well, one more thing will always be born if this is left gray from the opposing point of view, is Bitcoin really viable as a currency, especially when compared to traditional fiat currencies as some may doubt its ability to be used as a practical means of payment daily.

[wmaurik]

That's right, it's simple and very clear. However, for Bitcoin Legal Tender in the Central African Republic, what needs to be addressed is education for the lower middle class because if the understanding of BTC is not clarified then the perception of BTC will continue to be gray, which will increase the intensity of skepticism in the mainstream of society there who may think that the Bitcoin market is very changes rapidly, making it difficult to fully understand it, even with a good education.

I think this will also happen in the Central African Republic, because when the Bitcoin Legal Tender appeared in the Central African Republic and the state was very happy to accept it and did not feel too burdened by price changes in the market. So education for the lower middle class will definitely be carried out if it does not conflict with existing educational regulations, because the people there also need to know more about Bitcoin so they can understand it fully.

Well, one more thing will always be born if this is left gray from the opposing point of view, is Bitcoin really viable as a currency, especially when compared to traditional fiat currencies as some may doubt its ability to be used as a practical means of payment daily.

The people there can certainly see this from their own environment when there are more shops and markets that are willing to accept Bitcoin like they accept traditional money. Because when the recipients can feel the benefits, of course the users will continue to increase so it will be easier for the government to convince the public about Bitcoin.

[DrBeer]

Adopting bitcoin as legal payment tender is very good ideas because make some country more popular and many tourist will interested going to the country have easily with payment transaction without need to convert their money with local fiat currency. Many speculated with some country when adopting Bitcoin as payment currency will make their fiat payment not popular and will left by citizen, I think is wrong perception because Bitcoin dominance or becoming legal payment currency will not loss opportunity with local fiat become payment transaction.
I am glad with Central African Republic have been legal Bitcoin as payment tender although not really popular with this country, but believing one or two years later that country will be interested and more popular how to make tourist when going there and feel easily using bitcoin as payment transaction.

But in doing so, you fail to take into account 2 nuances.
First, the end seller is unlikely to keep records in bitcoin and pay taxes in bitcoin. That is, the price will also include conversion costs and taxes.
Second - there will be no gain, compared to the auto-conversion of your dollars on the card, for example, in the local currency, compared to the costs of servicing payments in bitcoin - the transaction costs money. Slow is small, fast is MUCH. Converting bitcoin to local currency - also at an undervalued rate, and with all taxes and fees.
So, sorry, but the idea you mentioned will not work.

[serveria.com]

Adopting bitcoin as legal payment tender is very good ideas because make some country more popular and many tourist will interested going to the country have easily with payment transaction without need to convert their money with local fiat currency. Many speculated with some country when adopting Bitcoin as payment currency will make their fiat payment not popular and will left by citizen, I think is wrong perception because Bitcoin dominance or becoming legal payment currency will not loss opportunity with local fiat become payment transaction.
I am glad with Central African Republic have been legal Bitcoin as payment tender although not really popular with this country, but believing one or two years later that country will be interested and more popular how to make tourist when going there and feel easily using bitcoin as payment transaction.

But in doing so, you fail to take into account 2 nuances.
First, the end seller is unlikely to keep records in bitcoin and pay taxes in bitcoin. That is, the price will also include conversion costs and taxes.
Second - there will be no gain, compared to the auto-conversion of your dollars on the card, for example, in the local currency, compared to the costs of servicing payments in bitcoin - the transaction costs money. Slow is small, fast is MUCH. Converting bitcoin to local currency - also at an undervalued rate, and with all taxes and fees.
So, sorry, but the idea you mentioned will not work.

Yes, but it's based on your assumption that records won't be kept in Bitcoin and taxes won't be paid in Bitcoin and conversion between Bitcoin and fiat is necessary. But it's your assumption only. As a typical troll, you're trying to make people think that your assumption is an absolute truth which it's certainly not.

In many places like some regions of the US and Canada you can pay taxes in Bitcoin already now. And if you can later spend your Bitcoin in stores and paying for services there's no need to convert to fiat.     

[Fauderz]

And these 90% of the population have a need for money - daily. And here volatility plays a cruel joke with them - they go to buy their last 5000 dollars bitcoin, and a month later... sell it for 2000 dollars. And their life gets even worse. It will be the same with the economy, which someone will try to build in the current situation, on bitcoin. That's what we need to prove.)

That's why there is no positive answer to the simple answer - which country/economy bitcoin helped to improve the situation - no positive answer.....

I agree. Bitcoin has become an interesting hot topic and this is a reality on the ground that I often see and feel. So the question is what is the solution other than education, because when we talk about investment BTC its intrinsic value is one of the benchmarks in assessing the price, innovation and technology behind it, so many are interested and many fail in managing it due to price volatility and transaction times which cannot be predicted with certainty especially if we frequently short sell and make we losses may extend far beyond we initial investment, yes, This something that is very important to consider, especially with Bitcoin.

I don't think it's a matter of price but a matter of faith and patience that everyone has.
Many people who fail in bitcoin are not because the price is too high but because those who cannot control their emotions in investment and they do not learn the concept of investment properly which makes them fail.
The point of this is that the learning done means that it is still lacking because when we have learned well what bitcoin is and how to invest properly then I don't think they will fail.

[ginsan]

I don't think it's a matter of price but a matter of faith and patience that everyone has.
Many people who fail in bitcoin are not because the price is too high but because those who cannot control their emotions in investment and they do not learn the concept of investment properly which makes them fail.
The point of this is that the learning done means that it is still lacking because when we have learned well what bitcoin is and how to invest properly then I don't think they will fail.

Yes they failed because they sold faster and it wasn't a big deal because they could buy back. Two different options they most likely fail because the money they earn from Selling Bitcoin they spend in other fields such as Gambling or having fun with girls.

Well if other points. If you invest in bitcoin, do it on a DCA basis, where you can buy in stage, every month or every quarter. Apart from that, investment requires a strong level of patience and serious confidence to continue buying Bitcoin. Maybe forget about the desire to take profits in the short term. If you have that in your investment planning then I am sure you will be successful in investing in bitcoin in the long term.

[DrBeer]

Yes, but it's based on your assumption that records won't be kept in Bitcoin and taxes won't be paid in Bitcoin and conversion between Bitcoin and fiat is necessary. But it's your assumption only. As a typical troll, you're trying to make people think that your assumption is an absolute truth which it's certainly not.

In many places like some regions of the US and Canada you can pay taxes in Bitcoin already now. And if you can later spend your Bitcoin in stores and paying for services there's no need to convert to fiat.     

I take it that for the sake of your phantom and unreal fantasy, you are ready to deny reality, and facts, and call your opponent a troll, just because he says the truth that is not convenient for you ?
But knowing you, I'm not surprised !

Once again I will ask you a question, which you never answer, which confirms that your ideas are empty fantasies.

And so the question - if with bitcoin so easily solved many economic problems (stability, decentralization, lack of inflation, .....) name me at least 1 country where, instead of agonizing, save the economy, financial system, welfare of people, took and transferred everything to bitcoin, and lived happily and without trolls who do not understand anything. The answer is obvious - there are no such countries. But it turns out that there are billions of idiots in the world, and only one smart guy serveria.com shows everyone a working example, and no one wants to live well, and continue to beat over the eternal problems of the economy

Doesn't the nimbus crush your head?

[wmaurik]

Yes they failed because they sold faster and it wasn't a big deal because they could buy back. Two different options they most likely fail because the money they earn from Selling Bitcoin they spend in other fields such as Gambling or having fun with girls.

Something like that seemed too ridiculous to say because it could be that the money they spent was not for having fun with girls or gambling. But it could be for their own needs which may be so urgent that it forces them to sell Bitcoin because they can no longer afford to hold it, but for now anyone can still use new money as capital to buy back Bitcoin in order to achieve better profits after halving and I think those in the Central African Republic must already know about the halving that will occur in Bitcoin within the next year.

Well if other points. If you invest in bitcoin, do it on a DCA basis, where you can buy in stage, every month or every quarter. Apart from that, investment requires a strong level of patience and serious confidence to continue buying Bitcoin. Maybe forget about the desire to take profits in the short term. If you have that in your investment planning then I am sure you will be successful in investing in bitcoin in the long term.

DCA is still wise enough to be used by everyone, but if it is faced with the citizens of the Central African Republic, I think they still really need mentors who can explain how good it is to do DCA on Bitcoin so that the citizens and government there can have A greater willingness to continue buying Bitcoin using the DCA method can indeed help those there to continue investing in Bitcoin in the long term by throwing away all their doubts about Bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

Yes, but it's based on your assumption that records won't be kept in Bitcoin and taxes won't be paid in Bitcoin and conversion between Bitcoin and fiat is necessary. But it's your assumption only. As a typical troll, you're trying to make people think that your assumption is an absolute truth which it's certainly not.

In many places like some regions of the US and Canada you can pay taxes in Bitcoin already now. And if you can later spend your Bitcoin in stores and paying for services there's no need to convert to fiat.     

I take it that for the sake of your phantom and unreal fantasy, you are ready to deny reality, and facts, and call your opponent a troll, just because he says the truth that is not convenient for you ?
But knowing you, I'm not surprised !

Once again I will ask you a question, which you never answer, which confirms that your ideas are empty fantasies.

And so the question - if with bitcoin so easily solved many economic problems (stability, decentralization, lack of inflation, .....) name me at least 1 country where, instead of agonizing, save the economy, financial system, welfare of people, took and transferred everything to bitcoin, and lived happily and without trolls who do not understand anything. The answer is obvious - there are no such countries. But it turns out that there are billions of idiots in the world, and only one smart guy serveria.com shows everyone a working example, and no one wants to live well, and continue to beat over the eternal problems of the economy

Doesn't the nimbus crush your head?

Rome was not built in a day, however the network effects^** in bitcoin keep building (and growing).. whether you want to believe (or recognize) it or not.

**Referring to those 7 network effects outlined by Trace Mayer.

In other words, there is no need to show a complete country or a complete system operating on bitcoin in order for bitcoin to be successful because little by little bitcoin is getting into each and all countries.. and still bitcoin is likely less than 1% of the world's population of adoption - scattered all over the world.. so bitcoin exists in an overwhelming number of countries around the world.. but for sure in no kind of a dominant way.. because bitcoin is existing side by side with various fiat systems that are likely going to continue to lose more and more of their value into bitcoin.. so in that regard, we have the greatest wealth transfer in the world going on right before our eyes, even if some people (probably and overwhelming majority of the people because otherwise they would already own some) are failing/refusing to see it.

[serveria.com]

Rome was not built in a day, however the network effects^** in bitcoin keep building (and growing).. whether you want to believe (or recognize) it or not.

**Referring to those 7 network effects outlined by Trace Mayer.

In other words, there is no need to show a complete country or a complete system operating on bitcoin in order for bitcoin to be successful because little by little bitcoin is getting into each and all countries.. and still bitcoin is likely less than 1% of the world's population of adoption - scattered all over the world.. so bitcoin exists in an overwhelming number of countries around the world.. but for sure in no kind of a dominant way.. because bitcoin is existing side by side with various fiat systems that are likely going to continue to lose more and more of their value into bitcoin.. so in that regard, we have the greatest wealth transfer in the world going on right before our eyes, even if some people (probably and overwhelming majority of the people because otherwise they would already own some) are failing/refusing to see it.

Exactly this. Bitcoin is only 14 years old give it some time. People were laughing at the inventors and early users of cars, planes, TV, internet but look where these technologies are now! So, has Bitcoin changed the world? Not yet, but it has potential to do it in future.

[DrBeer]

....
Rome was not built in a day, however the network effects^** in bitcoin keep building (and growing).. whether you want to believe (or recognize) it or not.

**Referring to those 7 network effects outlined by Trace Mayer.

In other words, there is no need to show a complete country or a complete system operating on bitcoin in order for bitcoin to be successful because little by little bitcoin is getting into each and all countries.. and still bitcoin is likely less than 1% of the world's population of adoption - scattered all over the world.. so bitcoin exists in an overwhelming number of countries around the world.. but for sure in no kind of a dominant way.. because bitcoin is existing side by side with various fiat systems that are likely going to continue to lose more and more of their value into bitcoin.. so in that regard, we have the greatest wealth transfer in the world going on right before our eyes, even if some people (probably and overwhelming majority of the people because otherwise they would already own some) are failing/refusing to see it.

It's all understandable, there's no arguing about it. I'm talking about something else, and you don't want to hear it.)
I mean that here on the forum, there are not a few participants who believe that bitcoin/cryptocurrency is a solution for countries that have a problem, and almost the best way to dedolarize the world economy. There were a lot of enthusiastic statements about some of the countries where cryptocurrency was supposedly accepted as a means of payment, imol - that's it, tomorrow everyone will be envious of them. Or quite simply, the topic of this topic is that bitcoin has become a legal means of payment in a certain country, the Central African Republic. And I ask the question - WHAT CHANGES? Problems solved? This is a "closed" economy, and it is easier and faster to get results here than in the global economy. And I do not get a positive answer from the apologists of the theme "bitcoin will save the economy". In response or talking about other topics, or primitive insults, and even without arguments Not everyone likes the truth that destroys myths and fantasies

For example, can you explain how bitcoin, as a financial model of the state\world, will SOLVE the real problems of the economy ?

[stompix]

I'm just curious since I see a lot of newbies coming here and congratulating CAR for its move, do you guys actually know that:

Bitcoin is no longer legal tender in CAR and it hasn't been since April this year?

https://www.centralbanking.com/central-banks/currency/digital-currencies/7956294/car-to-drop-crypto-as-legal-tender

The Central African Republic’s parliament has repealed legislation that gave bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies legal tender status. A new law amends an April 2022 statute that proved controversial among the CAR’s partners in the Economic and Monetary Community of Central Africa. The CAR legislature adopted the amended law unanimously on March 23.

https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1428334/economie-entreprises/bitcoin-en-centrafrique-ce-que-dit-le-nouveau-projet-de-loi-de-touadera/
https://www.investiraucameroun.com/finance/2003-19148-cryptomonnaie-touadera-contraint-par-ses-pairs-de-la-cemac-a-reviser-son-projet-sur-le-bitcoin


As for SangoCoin, lol:
https://sango.org/#roadmapSection

Q4
2022
Central Africa Backbone project: National Internet coverage
Creation of the National Bitcoin Treasury


Q3
2023
Crypto City and Crypto Island Masterplan

Crickets!!!!

Somebody tried to pull a scam and there were fewer stupid enough to pour money after the failure of Akon City and the incoming failure of Volcano Bonds.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Exactly this. Bitcoin is only 14 years old give it some time. People were laughing at the inventors and early users of cars, planes, TV, internet but look where these technologies are now! So, has Bitcoin changed the world? Not yet, but it has potential to do it in future.

Sure, there is more to come in terms of bitcoin's world changing likelihood.. but it seems to me that bitcoin has already changed the world, and there is just more to come .. more and more and more... .. .while at the same time, the cat is already out of the bag in terms of bitcoin already having had established a paradigm shift in regards to the way in which value is stored, secured and transmitted.... I doubt that the cat can be put back in the bag, or the genie back in the bottle or the toothpaste bag into the tube.

[edited out]

It's all understandable, there's no arguing about it. I'm talking about something else, and you don't want to hear it.)

I don't mind hearing whatever you have to say, but you are not really saying anything important and/or meaningful.  

It seems that you are trying to shift the burden onto bitcoin advocates to show bitcoin as having had already taken over the world in some kind of a microcosm, and if bitcoin is not able to show such a thing, then bitcoin is not important and/or meaningful in terms of its advancement.

So, yeah, go ahead and believe your unrealistic standards in regards to what you believe is needed to be shown in order for bitcoin to either be successful or to be on the right path of ongoing success. .. and in the meantime, while you are ongoingly denying bitcoin's importance, it will continue to eat your lunch and the lunch of your bitcoin naysaying banker and governmental buddies.

The positive news is not going to hit you in the face, especially if you are failing and refusing to see it and you are largely just focusing on the various things that bitcoin has not done... or that you believe bitcoin has done or that you believe that there is not enough evidence of bitcoin's ongoing progress in order for you to be satisified.. so if some of us are telling you that you better make sure that you are invested into bitcoin, you like to say that is off topic and not answering your questions... well you better go somewhere else, if you believe that you need further information to satisfy your curiousities.

I mean that here on the forum, there are not a few participants who believe that bitcoin/cryptocurrency is a solution for countries that have a problem, and almost the best way to dedolarize the world economy.

First of all.  Fuck shitcoins.  Who cares about cryptocurrencies? and try to stay focused on bitcoin if you are able to.  Bitcoin is the ONLY one that really matters, and the only one that creates any kind of threat to the fiat system as we know it.

Second, the dollar can be around for a long time, but little by little its lunch is continuing to be eaten by bitcoin, and so sure it could take a while for bitcoin to take its place.. and whether it does or not, bitcoin is the stronger of the two currencies and value will continue to flow into it, whether you want to recognize that current and ongoing dynamic or not.

There were a lot of enthusiastic statements about some of the countries where cryptocurrency was supposedly accepted as a means of payment, imol - that's it, tomorrow everyone will be envious of them. Or quite simply, the topic of this topic is that bitcoin has become a legal means of payment in a certain country, the Central African Republic. And I ask the question - WHAT CHANGES? Problems solved? This is a "closed" economy, and it is easier and faster to get results here than in the global economy. And I do not get a positive answer from the apologists of the theme "bitcoin will save the economy". In response or talking about other topics, or primitive insults, and even without arguments Not everyone likes the truth that destroys myths and fantasies

You seem to be wanting to be shown a specific thing, and if you cannot see ongoing bitcoin adoption, then you are the one who seems to be blind (and perhaps even purposefully so).. and yeah, maybe you have to be able to look and to identify certain changes in way that bitcoin is getting into more and more of the discussions and also getting increasingly financialized.. which is truly only one of the seven network effects.. as I referred to earlier.

There are transactions going on with bitcoin and there are various ways that they can be shown on the blockchain and also through lightning network, so it cannot be easy to particularize how much transactions might be taking place in any particular area.. or country wide or city wide.. even though there is likely quite a bit of variance. .and I surely am not claiming high levels of bitcoin adoption, so far we likely ONLY have less than 1% world-wide adoption, and even those who have adopted bitcoin are likely low coiners rather than nocoiners like you.  .. but even by definition, the low coiners are probably going to realize at some point that they don't have enough bitcoin.. not that any of us even need a lot of bitcoin in order to be advantaged by bitcoin's asymmetric upside nature.

So, yeah it is on you in regards to  the extent to which you need to see certain kinds of evidence or to have certain kinds of questions that you have answered prior to gaining confidence that bitcoin is going to be something in which you would like to invest.

I doubt anyone is really going to hold your hand, especially if you are fighting the whole way and even seeming to purposefully ignore ongoing bitcoin growth and developments... and surely I am not going to spend time listing them out for you.

For example, can you explain how bitcoin, as a financial model of the state\world, will SOLVE the real problems of the economy ?

I probably cannot explain it to your satisfaction, but the essence of bitcoin's contribution to the space of money is that it improves incentives based on its not being controlled by anyone and having a fixed supply, so a lot of corruption comes from the creation of money that advantages some people over others but not in connection to their proof of work.. so bitcoin is more pure in the sense that no one can create it.. even though there surely are going to be people, governments and/or financial institutions trying to create the same kinds of corrupt fractional reserve systems on top of bitcoin, but one of the powers of bitcoin is that any of us should be able to claim our own coins, so if some people are entering into contracts that allow others to control their coins, then they may well not be getting any advantage by those systems, and potentially those kinds of systems could end up losing their own credibility if they engage in practices in which they do not have the BTC that they claim to have...or if they do not allow people to take possession of their coins. which people should realize that they are putting themselves into trouble if they are using systems that are not obligated to allow people to take possession of their coins.

[DrBeer]

....

I.e. again no specifics, "water". I repeat - there are many people here who claim that by introducing cryptocurrency instead of local fiat currencies (and globally replacing the dollar all over the world), the problem of poverty, economy and inflation will be solved at once. Can you clearly answer this question ? I realize that no

"Bitcoin changed the world" - now you are trying to make wishful thinking. That it is an interesting concept and technology is not in dispute. But expectations and dreams that it will change the world are just fantasies.

"It seems that you are trying to shift the burden onto bitcoin advocates to show bitcoin as having had already taken over the world in some kind of a microcosm, and if bitcoin is not able to show such a thing, then bitcoin is not important and/or meaningful in terms of its advancement." - It would be better if you would tell us in detail about the fact that you can't put toothpaste back into the tube - it would look more interesting and closer to reality than this sentence


"First of all.  Fuck shitcoins.  Who cares about cryptocurrencies? and try to stay focused on bitcoin if you are able to.  Bitcoin is the ONLY one that really matters, and the only one that creates any kind of threat to the fiat system as we know it." - please provide some verifiable arguments or other reasoned answer proving this dubious idea ?

PS And lastly, about "everything is going well, implementation is going well, just need to do something else", summarizing fantasies, expectations, and reality : ) Are you surprised ? I'm not !


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5396366.msg62919460#msg62919460

[JayJuanGee]

....

I.e. again no specifics, "water". I repeat - there are many people here who claim that by introducing cryptocurrency instead of local fiat currencies (and globally replacing the dollar all over the world), the problem of poverty, economy and inflation will be solved at once. Can you clearly answer this question ? I realize that no

I doubt that I have ever said that bitcoin (or crypto currencies - and surely I was not talking about such a vague concept that you seem to want to insert into the discussion as if I had also been talking about such vague, meaningless and misleading nonsense)... .and by the way, what the fuck is "crypto currency?"   

Are you talking about bitcoin or something else?

If you had not noticed, I had been talking about bitcoin, and if you want to specifically talk about various other kinds of crypto currencies (such as various shitcoins or stable coins or something else), then you should be attempting to be more specific regarding your references rather than speaking in vague terms.

I have also largely answered these questions pretty clearly, even though you both don't want to accept it or you might not understand it.. but I get the sense that you are not really genuinely attempting to engage in any kind of meaningful and substantive discussion rather than continuing to throw out your pie in the sky aspirational barriers that you want to suggest need to be reached prior to bitcoin being considered as making any difference.

In other words, as I already mentioned bitcoin is already making beneficial differences around the world in terms of ways that people can store value and transact value, and bitcoin it cannot be uninvented and little by little lunches are being eaten by the king.  You can deny all that you like and continue to have fun staying poor.. and hopefully not too many people are actually taking much of what you are saying too seriously.

"Bitcoin changed the world" - now you are trying to make wishful thinking.

It already changed the world.  It is not wishful thinking.

If you had not known Bitcoin is a paradigm-shifting that solved a problem that previously had not been solvable, and sure there had been earlier attempts at bitcoin, so it did not completely come out of nowhere, but it did combine several existing technologies and may have invented some aspects of its own, such as the difficulty adjustment, that end up causing bitcoin to be a kind of unique product that had several years in which no one was really paying too much attention to it, and surely it did not have much of any kind of recognized monetary value until around the time of the May 2010 (around 17 months after the genesis block) pizza transaction.. and there surely might have been a few transactions that attached value to bitcoin prior to the pizza transaction, but the pizza transaction is recognized as one of the first transactions to give monetary value to bitcoin.

That it is an interesting concept and technology is not in dispute. But expectations and dreams that it will change the world are just fantasies.

Whether you recognize the matter or not, bitcoin has already changed the world, and yeah sure I don't know the future with any kind of precision, but it seems that odds are quite great that bitcoin will continue to change the world and value will continue to flow into it because it is the soundest money that has ever existed, and little by little people are learning about bitcoin.. .not just hearing the word, but actually more and more people are gaining confidence in bitcoin, so surely if we still ONLY have around 1% adoption.. and maybe over nearly 15 years of bitcoin's existence, the adoptions seems quite large, but it is still quite small, and there seems to be decently large odds that bitcoin is going to continue to grow in its various network effect (which includes but is not limited to retail adoption), so surely many people probably correct in terms of their visionary aspirations about where bitcoin is going, and we do not even necessarily need to get into all of that if we are talking about where bitcoin already is and where it came from, and surely that will shed light into where it is likely to be going, and surely without any guarantees, but you might want to get some @DrBeer in case it catches on.

"It seems that you are trying to shift the burden onto bitcoin advocates to show bitcoin as having had already taken over the world in some kind of a microcosm, and if bitcoin is not able to show such a thing, then bitcoin is not important and/or meaningful in terms of its advancement." - It would be better if you would tell us in detail about the fact that you can't put toothpaste back into the tube - it would look more interesting and closer to reality than this sentence

Who cares what I say, and if you can understand it or not?  I already said my opinion, and what I say does not matter that much.  You can try to better understand bitcoin or not.  That's up to you.

Yes, yes, yes, it can already be recognized that you are a bitcoin naysayer and a pessimist about bitcoin, but you also seem to be ongoingly arguing dumb-ass points (as I already stated several times) and trying to make unreachable standards that bitcoin must surpass rather than appreciating bitcoin for what it already is and from where it came in order to get some more accurate assessment regarding how it might continue to be contributing to the betterment of the world in terms of where it is going...

"First of all.  Fuck shitcoins.  Who cares about cryptocurrencies? and try to stay focused on bitcoin if you are able to.  Bitcoin is the ONLY one that really matters, and the only one that creates any kind of threat to the fiat system as we know it." - please provide some verifiable arguments or other reasoned answer proving this dubious idea ?

I already said enough.  I don't need your ongoing dumbass and disingenuine assignments regarding things that I have likely already made clear enough.. at least for the purposes of these lines of discussion.

PS And lastly, about "everything is going well, implementation is going well, just need to do something else", summarizing fantasies, expectations, and reality : ) Are you surprised ? I'm not !
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5396366.msg62919460#msg62919460

I don't get your point, here... that is if you have any point that has not already been sufficiently discussed.  There are always some things that can be looked at in terms of progress or lack of progress, or things being built or projects being added or abandoned. 

In the end, it seems that bitcoin continues to be in a good place, and increasingly getting better in terms of ongoing growth.. even though sometimes progress can be difficult to measure without attempting to address some specifics, and you might say that transactions are not increasing or hashrate is not going up or pick some other metric in order to proclaim that bitcoin is not progressing..

..but if you have heard of the Lindy effect.. .. then you might argue that bitcoin is not continuing to persist and it is on a negative trajectory, and you are free to believe whatever you like when you are making choices about whether or not to invest into bitcoin in terms of whether you believe that it is continuing to build, survive and thrive on an upwardly trajectory or if you believe that it has crossed its peak and it is on a downward slope towards its death.  We don't need to agree on these points and we can place our money, time and energies into whichever direction that we believe is more likely.