Argentinian Government Ready to Take Advantage of Crypto Holder

[Leviathan.007]

As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders.  This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has.  It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government.  I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example.  So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing. Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell. 

I was expecting to see that one coming not just about Argentinia but about many other countries, tax is usually the first income resource for the governments and since people, many in the world are using bitcoin and cryptocurrencies the trading value of fiat will decrease so the tax they get from people will decrease, because of that, I was always waiting to see the governments start taking tax from the bitcoin holders and the traders, but I think if people start using the private wallets and do p2p exchanges they can have a chance to stay away from the governments.

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[Lucius]

It would be illogical for governments not to think about such things, it is in their interest to try to collect as many taxes as possible, but even more to control the flow of money. All this, of course, in order to prevent money laundering, terrorist financing, and various crimes, but in many countries also due to anonymous donations to various anti-government organizations that fight against bribery, corruption, and nepotism.

Given that most crypto transactions have their source in centralized crypto exchanges where clients have already made KYC, it is not difficult to come up with data that would create some kind of common database. After all, most countries in the world exchange data on the bank accounts of their citizens, and it was difficult for any ordinary person to hide anything from the authorities.

So I don't see a problem with a government going in that direction, and anyone who buys and sells crypto legally pays taxes anyway - but the question is how well the government will protect that data, because it would be very inconvenient for someone to hack it and make it public.

[SirLancelot]

Well, there are two things wrong with your post...

1. Tax evasion is not the main aim for most people, when they use Crypto currencies. A lot of them just want to have faster and cheaper transactions ...and some financial privacy. (They do not want some government official snooping on their financial transactions)

2. Having a central database of all "Bitcoin holders" in their country, will not solve their tax evasion problems. There will still be a lot of people (criminals) that will use direct payments not registered on this centralized database to evade taxes. 

That’s right, a lot of people always think negatively when cryptocurrency is mentioned. But, that is not the truth about this, a lot of people have different reasons and of course there are good reasons why they are making use of cryptocurrency. Not everyone who is making use of cryptocurrency has a bad intention.

When I started making use of crypto currency it was just for me to be able to receive payments from companies that I work for who were abroad. And it made things a lot easier for us as payment was made the same day and also received same day, instead of having to make use of banks that would take days before the payment arrives.

And other payment methods weren’t even an option in my country then, so not everyone who decided to use Bitcoin had any bad intention for doing so. And some of us who are making use of it are for investment as well.

[Pomogator]

How they're going to know that a citizen is a holder? Unless that citizen declares and tells that he's a holder then they should know. But otherwise, the government will never know that someone is a holder unless being declared and proclaimed.
Well, this is where things are going for the governments to take advantage of the people that are into crypto, they should also regulate the local exchanges.

I think it is enough to regulate exchangers that withdraw crypto to fiat. It is enough to get information once on which wallet was credited from his bank card through the exchanger and that's it, then follow his operations and the balance of his wallet.

[serjent05]

So I don't see a problem with a government going in that direction, and anyone who buys and sells crypto legally pays taxes anyway

Same here, I don't see any problem if the government implements a tax on cryptocurrency transactions.  It is the duty of every citizen to pay taxes.  Aside from that, I can see positive vibes from this kind of regulation.  If the government imposes a tax on cryptocurrency they automatically legalize and adopt cryptocurrency, thus, I can see a massive adoption coming if countries follow the example.

but the question is how well the government will protect that data, because it would be very inconvenient for someone to hack it and make it public.

Indeed this is also one of the major concerns of developing countries that do not prioritize DATA security.  For example, voter information was leaked during the 2016 Philippines election.[1]

Well, there are two things wrong with your post...
..snipped

I think it is the Argentinian Government's Tax Agency approach you are referring to .


[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36013713

[barbara44]

Collection of data maybe means that they are tracking how big the number of crypto users and to know what law they can implement towards this. I also believe that many other country contributes to the decision on the country who want to regulate crypto and if they see how huge the user base of this technology for sure they will find ways to implement a taxation and they will provably start by getting the information on legal platform which is registered on their country. Hopefully the tax they ask to get is not so huge and fair to each crypto user out there.

If the userbase is huge, that means even a slight tax would make them a lot of money and they could help either their pockets (like all politicians always do) or use some of it for the betterment of the nation (maybe a small sum).

So, this would unearth the fact that they could make profit and each nation should consider making it legal and allowed so that they could tax it. My nation didn't make it legal tender yet, probably won't, but they have seen it as a legal thing and allowed exchanges to flourish, we have plenty now who all spend millions on marketing but the end result is that we are talking about huge taxes paid and nation grows bigger with it (or politicians grow richer).

[The Cryptovator]

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

[crzy]

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

Most probably a way to intimidate those holders in a decentralized platform so they can declare their income and pay the necessary tax. Argentina is doing their best effort to collect more taxes, this is one of their plan and it looks like crypto user there should follow this especially if you’re already on a CEX platform.

[goaldigger]

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

Most probably a way to intimidate those holders in a decentralized platform so they can declare their income and pay the necessary tax. Argentina is doing their best effort to collect more taxes, this is one of their plan and it looks like crypto user there should follow this especially if you’re already on a CEX platform.

If your name is already on CEX, I think you can’t escape this tax anymore since the government already have your details and most probably will collect the tax from you. Is Argentina legalizing cryptocurrency and accept it as legal tender? If yes I think paying taxes is fine as long as you can freely use cryptocurrency, maybe a small percentage for the tax can still be a big help for the country and for their own economy, this can be a good one and for the benefits of many.

[AjithBtc]

We can't blame the government. The major focus of any country is to generate money from its people. How is this possible, levy tax over the people. Atleast Argentinian government is making plans for the taxation. However this can't be made immediately, so the focus is good with short term changes. Already India have put 30% tax which is very big and limit people from using it.

[Scripture]

We can't blame the government. The major focus of any country is to generate money from its people. How is this possible, levy tax over the people. Atleast Argentinian government is making plans for the taxation. However this can't be made immediately, so the focus is good with short term changes. Already India have put 30% tax which is very big and limit people from using it.

Exactly, Argentina is also a tax dependent and they can't survive without this especially the economic situation that they are into right now. They still need to create a law for this one, this is not easy to execute but expect that they are slowly getting there and taxing your profit in crypto is really possible. Argentinian should look for alternatives, most probably there's still a way for them not to pay huge taxes, they just need to understand the new law.

[stepwilli]

It’s no surprise to me, the government would always want to take advantage in everything. If they decide to ban cryptocurrency, they know that it is their loss, because a lot of people would still continue to make use of cryptocurrency even after they have banned it.

Cryptocurrencies that are truly decentralized doesn’t need any approval from the government for people to be able to make use of it, that’s why in countries where it has been banned, they would still see people who make use of it. Only centralized exchanges can be banned and not the decentralized ones. And since the government is starting to know that now, so they have decided not to ban it but rather do as much as possible to make it a centralized system.

[yawars20]

I think in some sense government is doing right thing.
Their is a clear resoan for them to take action because it could get huge threat for the economy of Argentina.
Am saying this because I know how money inflation can distroy a countries reputation and cost huge loss for normal people of the country.
I know the main concept of crypto itself is to be not control by any particular person or group and if government to centralisation, the meaning behind crypto will be loss. But we living in a real world where taking advantage of something or someone is like a common thing and no government want there mony and sources to go away and they all want to control what they can to get better results..

[serjent05]

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders.  They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there.  Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

From today, May 2, the home banking of Banco Galicia, the largest private bank in Argentina, offers the option of buying bitcoin (BTC) and other cryptocurrencies to the company's customers.

[1] https://www.criptonoticias.com/negocios/banco-galicia-argentina-vende-bitcoin-criptomonedas-sitio-web/

[TimeTeller]

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders.  They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there.  Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

From today, May 2, the home banking of Banco Galicia, the largest private bank in Argentina, offers the option of buying bitcoin (BTC) and other cryptocurrencies to the company's customers.

[1] https://www.criptonoticias.com/negocios/banco-galicia-argentina-vende-bitcoin-criptomonedas-sitio-web/

We all know that any government wouldn't get a hold of the whole picture of crypto movements within their jurisdiction.
So yes, they will start from their local crypto exchanges legally registered under their Central Bank.
Because it is easy to get those numbers from centralized platforms.
And if some of their banks will offer crypto services, then, they will also have those info on hand.
Better take advantage of this crypto market rather than not get anything by banning its existence.

[Kasabus]

they may not get the whole picture of the crypto holdings of their people, but at least they will be getting something from this market. unlike those countries who are totally banning the crypto market. we all know that crypto users can hide some of their transactions and you can just disclose your other txs if you will use centralised platforms. their government may be realising that they can get a hold of some of their crypto users but definitely, they know, they won't get the entire crypto market of their people.

This is mostly the advantage of not banning crypto in one country. Well, there's no reason to ban actually if they can make profits out from those crypto holders. And in fact, banning crypto won't be the people's loss because they can shift into another country where crypto is not banned. Now, it will be the government's loss if they still pursue banning crypto in the future.

[Lucius]

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders.  They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there.  Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

Interesting news, and since I was interested in the exact type of service, I had to translate the article from Spanish and I found out some interesting details. Clients can buy cryptocurrencies for a minimum of only $ 0.50, but this is a custodial service in which the client cannot withdraw crypto to his wallet, but can only sell them to the bank. Another interesting thing is that the crypto assets are kept abroad by the company with which this bank has entered into an agreement (Lirium), and these funds are not covered by the regulations of the Central Bank of Argentina or any other domestic agency.

Interesting way of doing business, but if we take into account that the difference in price is 3%, and that there are certainly some service fees - with the fact that the bank has over 3 million clients and over 300 branches, if only 10% of clients decide on this type of investment , it will bring a good income to the bank.

[Bushdark]

I don't know why the government do look for a way to make cryptocurrency centralized so they can have access to individual holders the same way they are doing to us with paper money. The prospective of Bitcoin is not for the centralized system of running transactions but to make it decentralized so we all can have our own privacy and to limit third party control to our crypto portfolios.

I am not surprised that different countries now are looking for strategies so crypto holders can always pay for taxes and their identity can be known. Argentina government want to support cryptocurrency but in another dimension that may affect the decentralized world.

[Vatimins]

We can't blame the government. The major focus of any country is to generate money from its people. How is this possible, levy tax over the people. Atleast Argentinian government is making plans for the taxation. However this can't be made immediately, so the focus is good with short term changes. Already India have put 30% tax which is very big and limit people from using it.

     Indeed we cannot blame the government for such actions since every citizen has the obligation to contribute towards its country and this is done by taxing us. Taxes is what fuels the country to run and improve. Although some countries do not see much improvement due to corruption, it still does help a bit. But main point is that as a citizen of our country we must not avoid our responsibility towards our country. And for the country, it would be best if the taxes imposed aren't too unreasonable as the 30% tax in India as what you have mentioned. This is just crossing the line.

[TheUltraElite]

Argentinian Tax Agency As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders.  This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has.  

I am not sure how much of the Argentinian population actually pays its taxes but if the government is cracking down on it, there must be another side to it. Of course this is not implemented yet just that it might come in reality in future.

It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government.  I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example.  So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing.

This is why I said about the currently tax-paying population, in most countries which are considered less-developed, majority dont pay their taxes properly. If the government suspected that people are using cryptocurrency to evade taxes they will take strict action.

Currently Indian government imposed 30% tax on transactions. This move was probably done to hinder people from taking part in crypto.

Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.  

This will be interesting to observe. In my assumption they will work with all the locally running exchanges to collect capital gains data and tax people on the basis of that against KYC.