Buying cheap second hand gaming machine risky ! (being dumped after Corona)

[Skybuck]

I think it is necessary to warn people for the dangerous of buying second hand computers, especially now that the Corona crisis is a bit lower.

Many gamers/people are selling their computers/gaming machines. Trying to find people to buy it.

There is an increased risk that these gaming machines which appear beautifull on the outside and a great buy of value could be manipulated and infected with trojans and others spying software and equipment such that if the buyer were to use internet banking or bitcoin that these "sellers" of "second hand gaming personal computers" could then observe the internet or bitcoin banking and this could lead to compromise of the banking accounts and stealing of funds from the buyer !

So consider this a BIG FAT WARNING to be very carefull with buying second hand computers, that almost seem to good to be true.

(Even first hand/new computers run risks of being infected, but that is a story for a different time)

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[NeuroticFish]

So consider this a BIG FAT WARNING to be very carefull with buying second hand computers, that almost seem to good to be true.

Well, if you buy a SH computer, first thing is to re-partition the HDD/SSD to avoid surprises, ... right?
If you cannot do that yourself, you better buy from specialized shops that will do this for you.. of course, not for free.

[Kemarit]

Not just the looks outside, but let me tell you an experienced I have buying 2nd hand laptop, (not for my crypto activities just for my kids, sort of gaming laptop).

So everything looks ok from the outside, but I didn't check the audio or sound of it. So there is some issue obviously and obviously I want to replace the sound card. When I open it up, it was not only screwed by the previous owners tampered it with some sort of glue. So I have to go the professionals to have it fixed.

Of course, the risk is there, and if you wanted to buy a second hand to be used for crypto, then it's better to format or buy a new hardware.

[Welsh]

Well, if you buy a SH computer, first thing is to re-partition the HDD/SSD to avoid surprises, ... right?
If you cannot do that yourself, you better buy from specialized shops that will do this for you.. of course, not for free.

Yeah, I usually go through it all, bin the hard drives usually, then update the bios firmware, pop in a new hard drive or SSD, and then install whatever operating system I want on it. Usually though, not many people are sophisticated enough to touch the bios side of things, but it's just for piece of mind on my end. Ultimately, a wipe/format should be sufficient for most people, either with dban or dd on Linux systems. Although, that usually requires connecting a USB to a possibly infected machine. So, either go the Qubes OS route, and isolate or use a Live CD of Ubuntu etc.

Although, most of the time much of that is overkill. Although, I do always recommend people listening to their inner threat model, and not compromise.

[MARK21]

It is something that cannot be seen with the naked eye, but if there is news about this issue, it would be advisable to reinstall the OS, obviously many people who do not know about computers will have a very difficult time. That is why it is always better to assemble your computer buying piece by piece, since in this way you avoid certain problems like the ones you say and you will have comfort with the components that you install.

[DapanasFruit]

These days, buying a pre-owned laptop or computer can come with many risks that can be not really worth it all and in the end can just be a big waste of money no matter how cheaply you might bought the thing. Security-wise this is not really advisable most especially to people who are not aware how to secure their wares...good for those who know they can do to stop any malicious programs found within. Better be buying a new one...for those in budget we already have many cheap laptops or computers available.

[NotATether]

I think its obvious to anyone reading this that a purchased second-hand PC is useless if you cannot login to it obviously nobody wants to use an account that is owned by another person, so a general rule after buying them is to reinstall the OS to your liking, also reformatting the partition so that all malicious files are destroyed.

Make sure you completely replace the bootloader as well (do not perform a Windows upgrade) for thurough cleansing.

UEFI malware does not need to be worried about because its high risk for the seller to modify it without bricking the PC they are trying to sell.

[jerry0]

So thats if its a used windows pc right?  So if you start with the windows installation...  and then do a clean reinstall... would that be safe?  Or could malware be hiding under the bios or ram or whatever it maybe?


Could you clean reinstall it without setting it up first?  Last time i bought a cheap slow laptop and then set windows up that way but it was a new laptop from a major store.


So if it comes directly from dell, that would not be concern right?  But what if you buy a laptop from a big box store and even though it is new, it could be returned?  Could it have malware or spyware there?


What if you don't use the hard drive or ssd it has and use your own ssd?  But that is still not safe always?


What about if its a macbook?


What if its a chromebook? 


So you are saying it isn't save even buying a new laptop from someone reputable on ebay then?  Lets assume they have near perfect or perfect feedback and they are selling new windows, mac or chromebook.  Are you saying it isn't safe because they could put something in it and then sell it as new?  Or they are legit seller but where they bought it from... that person could put malware there?


Who here buys a new laptop and then does a clean reinstall on it before using it?  Heard some people have mentioned this before... and either they did it to get the bloatware out or because they had some concern about malware even if its a new machine.  i mean don't some big box stores sell you new laptops but it could be a returned laptop?

[Chato1977]

I think it is necessary to warn people for the dangerous of buying second hand computers, especially now that the Corona crisis is a bit lower.

Many gamers/people are selling their computers/gaming machines. Trying to find people to buy it.

There is an increased risk that these gaming machines which appear beautifull on the outside and a great buy of value could be manipulated and infected with trojans and others spying software and equipment such that if the buyer were to use internet banking or bitcoin that these "sellers" of "second hand gaming personal computers" could then observe the internet or bitcoin banking and this could lead to compromise of the banking accounts and stealing of funds from the buyer !

So consider this a BIG FAT WARNING to be very carefull with buying second hand computers, that almost seem to good to be true.

(Even first hand/new computers run risks of being infected, but that is a story for a different time)

if you are not good in Computers and technology then best not to consider buying second hand computers specially if you are going to use for Online transacting , because your funds will be vulnerable in hacking or any scandalous situation that you might face having those machines.

[BitSwapNow]

Best it to build it yourself with parts from a site like newegg. It is sad motherboards and cpus have rocketed in price. Now as far as that idea it seems kinda of crazy for someone to install spyware/malware to resell a computer to one person. People using that arent so stupid and prob have way better methods of spreading their malware easier and cheaper. Now is it possible for sure. But as many said you would want to reinstall or reformat. Only issue is rootkits. Again this is for the super paranoid. But this can be root level virus that loads before even the operating system. Can be hard to rid of but is more a state level actor or advanced cyber criminal. They arent going to be embedding there computer with high level malware to resell to an unknown user who can turn out to be a grandma and especially leave a trace back to them by the payment lol. Just my 2 cents.

An another reason buying gaming machine second hand is bad is not only the software could be compromised but you dont know what they were doing with this said machine. For example maybe they were mining eth for the past 3 years and banging the sh*t out of the GPU. Said GPU can be less effective and eventually crap out a lot sooner from all the overuse. So that cheap looking machine yea it might not be worth it. You get what you pay for.

PS: Governments have backdoors on all these machines, hardware and such already lol. Cough windows. Routers and other hardware/firmware. If your really into security and privacy i suggest looking into and researching virtual boxes and whonix. Encryption is great too i recommend VeraCrypt.

[NeuroticFish]

Yeah, I usually go through it all, bin the hard drives usually, then update the bios firmware, pop in a new hard drive or SSD, and then install whatever operating system I want on it. Usually though, not many people are sophisticated enough to touch the bios side of things, but it's just for piece of mind on my end.

Well, rewriting BIOS is almost too sophisticated for myself . I don't think I've done that (may have been doing it once many many years ago), but I may be able to find and follow a tutorial though.

Ultimately, a wipe/format should be sufficient for most people, either with dban or dd on Linux systems. Although, that usually requires connecting a USB to a possibly infected machine. So, either go the Qubes OS route, and isolate or use a Live CD of Ubuntu etc.

Iirc repartitioning the HDDs can be done even from Windows' install DVD. Of course, I have an E2B stick with plenty of iso with tools, so I have where to choose from for the job if needed, some from Linux, some even under Windows. I mean that there's a much wider list of options.
And although I've used SDelete (yes, I'm a Windoze guy) here and there, I think that repartitioning does the job and wipe is overkill.

Although, most of the time much of that is overkill. Although, I do always recommend people listening to their inner threat model, and not compromise.

The problem is that most people don't have enough knowledge and their "inner threat model" will be silent, hence troubles like those signaled by OP.

[yayayo]

I would not buy any second hand machines especially if I am going to use it to store my cryptocurrency and personal uses since you don't know the history of the machine or you don't know the quality of it. So for me it is not worth buying second hand things it is much better to buy new machines especially computers.

ya.ya.yo!

[Oasisman]

I think it is necessary to warn people for the dangerous of buying second hand computers, especially now that the Corona crisis is a bit lower.

Many gamers/people are selling their computers/gaming machines. Trying to find people to buy it.

There is an increased risk that these gaming machines which appear beautifull on the outside and a great buy of value could be manipulated and infected with trojans and others spying software and equipment such that if the buyer were to use internet banking or bitcoin that these "sellers" of "second hand gaming personal computers" could then observe the internet or bitcoin banking and this could lead to compromise of the banking accounts and stealing of funds from the buyer !

So consider this a BIG FAT WARNING to be very carefull with buying second hand computers, that almost seem to good to be true.

(Even first hand/new computers run risks of being infected, but that is a story for a different time)

A simple reformat could solve that issue. However, I may not want to underestimate computer wizards, hackers, and stuff like that, but there could always be something to avoid that.
Though I'm not really a fan of second hand stuff, but not because of that issue. It's more of a hardware issues.
Nevertheless, If you want to be safest, then I guess we need to educate ourselves more about the different types of cyber attacks.

[hugeblack]

I don't know, but using Bitcoin on a computer connected to the Internet does not seem like a good idea, even if you bought a new computer, and therefore it is better to use it with a computer that has not connected and will not connect to the Internet, or buy a suitable hardware wallet.

We can see the issue in reverse, which is if you don't try to sell those used devices, someone may recover those files.

[BitSwapNow]

All very valid points. Have to treat your crypto link a bank vault or a computer thats very secure with up to date Antivirus and Updates. An even that can be beat pretty regularly. A seperate computer that is only used for crypto/banking would be ideal. No downloads, no surfing etc.

[Mamun41]

I would not buy a second hand machine especially if I have to use it to save my cryptocurrency and personal, because I do not know the history of the machine or its quality. So I don't think it's worth buying second hand things. It is better to buy a new machine, especially a computer.