[unofficial] CoinDebit NO-KYC pre-paid cards?

[DaveF]

The biggest issue I see is that even though it's a US address it's a foreign bank. Some merchants <cough> Dell </cough> don't process any cards on their US site that are not US based. I am sure there are others. For the low dollar value cards they offer it probably does not matter, but it is something to think about.

If they all go back to the same address that could also lead to an issue with some merchants. Why are 1000s of people with different names and shipping addresses all have the CC billing address at this location?

Probably still going to use it, just things to think about.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

The card I got comes back with 485953 which according to here: https://www.bincodes.com/bin-checker/
comes back to a bank in Colombia.

Nice little review.
So you actually ordered physical card or this was only CoinDebit virtual card?
I honestly expected to see that cards are coming from some exotic countries, and I wouldn't sent them any big money for sure.
It would be good if they allow shipping to PO boxes or some other way of sending that wouldn't reveal your real identity.

The biggest issue I see is that even though it's a US address it's a foreign bank.

Biggest issue for me is the fact they are not offering their service and cards to Europe other parts of the world.
If bank is really from Columbia, than I see no real reason why they wouldn't offer it to people who want to use it worldwide, unless they have some restrictions for that.

[DaveF]

The card I got comes back with 485953 which according to here: https://www.bincodes.com/bin-checker/
comes back to a bank in Colombia.

Nice little review.
So you actually ordered physical card or this was only CoinDebit virtual card?
I honestly expected to see that cards are coming from some exotic countries, and I wouldn't sent them any big money for sure.
It would be good if they allow shipping to PO boxes or some other way of sending that wouldn't reveal your real identity.

The biggest issue I see is that even though it's a US address it's a foreign bank.

Biggest issue for me is the fact they are not offering their service and cards to Europe other parts of the world.
If bank is really from Columbia, than I see no real reason why they wouldn't offer it to people who want to use it worldwide, unless they have some restrictions for that.

Virtual card.
At the moment I'm out of addresses I would want to use for unknown services.

Depending on the rules of the bank I can see them needing someghing in whatever country / region they want to issue cards in. So although in theory they could probably issue cards anywhere the rules of the bank don't allow them to. Just a guess but I have seen it before with other non crypto related banking things.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

Virtual card.
At the moment I'm out of addresses I would want to use for unknown services.

I am more interested in physical cards, and I am also wondering what name are they writing on cards, legal or anything you want to write, like John Rambo, Ivan Drago and similar.
Having a card issued by a bank from foreign country is maybe not such a bad thing, if you don't want ''someone'' tracking every single purchase you make, excluding cash payments.

[keyscore44]

I can see that despite the first positive post about CoinDebit service, there is quite a bit of controversy around this card. Anyway, from what I can see, they don't provide services in Europe.

Does anyone know the Bitcoin Debit Card that works in Europe, has a fairly low fee, has high limits and is on the market for a long enough to confirm its credibility?

[dkbit98]

If you are living in Orange County and So-Cal area, or you are there on June 9th, you can visit OC Bitcoiners Meetup (Costa Mesa) sponsored by CoinDebit.io.
Food and beer are pad by CoinDebit and you will get priority access to the physical card beta program.
This is obviously only available for United States citizens, but I would love that someone make a suggestion there and add support for Europe and rest of the world.
What I like about this event is their last sentence on their meetup page

Code:

*BE ADVISED: We are not a "blockchain" or "cryptocurrency" group. We are a Bitcoin focused group here to help people learn and talk about Bitcoin*

https://meetu.ps/e/L6lX8/PZ73c/i

[dkbit98]

CoinDebit is getting some serious competition with Edge releasing their first confidential Mastercard without any kyc verification!
Edge app is needed for this card to work and for now it's only available for US merchants (same like CoinDebit) and they are supporting Bitcoin with few other altcoins (LTC, BCH, DOGE, DASH).
One more great thing is that Edge is charging zero fees when you top up your balance, and card works with Apple Pay, Samsung Pay and Google Pay with NFC.
Physical Edge Mastercard can be ordered for one-time charge of $20, and they have plans to expand to other countries in future.


https://edge.app/card/

[Perlover]

My experience of using this card:

I bought and paid with Lightning Bitcoin. I paid about $101.5 and received a card with a balance of $100. Then I tried to add it to the Curve application - who doesn't know - this is a "proxy" service for cards that may not work with contactless payments, but it works through Curve (Curve has KYC and issues its virtual card with the possibility of contactless payment, then it is added to Google Pay, for example).

I had USD currency in Curve App for the card, but I paid in local currency. Curve, as a rule, has an exchange rate "on the fly" equal to the exchange rate. I have successfully conducted several transactions for the full amount of about $46 (NFC-contactless payments through Google Pay application). Due to 1:1 exchange rates (equal to the exchange rate) it took me exactly as many dollars as I spent in the local currency. My balance after that was exactly as much as was spent on the Curve side. That is, the rate was even more profitable than on many cards of ordinary banks!

A little later that day, I dropped $190, I had $244 and I was trying to pay for dinner at the restaurant for about $230. But two attempts were unsuccessful. There is no information on the CoinDebit website except that you can top up to $250. I can assume that the card can always be replenished up to $250 (and maybe more - I haven't tried it), but you can spend a maximum of $250 in the last 24 hours. But that's my guess. I'll continue checking tomorrow.

P.S. When you add a CoinDebit card to Curve, you need to specify the name of owner without ", LLC" suffix, as they write in the card data. I also want to add that I tried to add a card to Google Pay - the check was successful, but the last stage after checking the card gave me a message that the card could not be used in stores and I was asked to add another card.

P.P.S. The card balance can be topped up higher than $250 - I just did it. Apparently you can spend up to $250 within 24 hours. I didn't find any other explanation why I was able to top up above $250.

[dkbit98]

A little later that day, I dropped $190, I had $244 and I was trying to pay for dinner at the restaurant for about $230. But two attempts were unsuccessful.

Have you contacted CoinDebit support after this rejection happened or maybe you wrote them email and ask them for explanation?
One more thing I wanted to ask you, if you are traveling outside US in near future, try bringing CoinDebit card with you and test if it's working in other countries (officially it shouldn't work).
We need something like this working in Europe and other parts of the world.

The card balance can be topped up higher than $250 - I just did it. Apparently you can spend up to $250 within 24 hours.

If I was in your place I won't go crazy topping up lot of money on that card, they started this company and card jus recently, and I know they are still testing it.
It's not impossible to think that card can be block at any time for whatever reason, so you should know the risks.

[DaveF]

...A little later that day, I dropped $190, I had $244 and I was trying to pay for dinner at the restaurant for about $230. But two attempts were unsuccessful....

Many restaurants authorize for 20% to 25% more then the check. This will cover tips / additional items added after the 'closing' of the check.
Was a waiter back in the day and you would be amazed how many times there was '1 more drink' or 'lets get that desert to go for the kids' after the check had been printed and the card swiped.

-Dave

[n0nce]

Thanks for checking this out, dkbit98. I've had a look around a while back for a no-KYC credit card that can be charged with Bitcoin on-chain and / or Lightning. My search was unsuccessful. I may give this a try; but only being able to use it in the states is a bit of a bummer.

Coin Debit may, in its sole discretion, at any time discontinue providing or limit access to the Site

I wouldn't use a site with such conditions. They're basically saying they can decide to kick you as a user whenever they feel like it.

About the conditions: although I'm 100% on board with you on this when it comes to other businesses that accept Bitcoin; it seems to me that with credit cards there's no way around it. Since 'crypto credit cards' are either banks themselves or work directly with banks, they have to comply with whatever the bank wants. And of course, that's usually always where the fun ends. So it doesn't really surprise me; it should be 'good enough' if you only ever charge it up with whatever you need for your next in-store (or online) purchase.

Since a notion of 'taint' and other types of transaction tracing doesn't exist on LN, I guess if such a credit card existed that accepts Lightning deposits, you should be safer from 'account closure due to dubious activities, yada yada yada' nonsense.

[dkbit98]

Thanks for checking this out, dkbit98. I've had a look around a while back for a no-KYC credit card that can be charged with Bitcoin on-chain and / or Lightning. My search was unsuccessful. I may give this a try; but only being able to use it in the states is a bit of a bummer.

Yeah it is a bummer, that is why I am trying to motivate them to expand their cards to Europe and other parts of the world.
I know regulations can be complicated but I think they would certainly have customers even with this lower limit that is currently available during testing beta phase.

Since a notion of 'taint' and other types of transaction tracing doesn't exist on LN, I guess if such a credit card existed that accepts Lightning deposits, you should be safer from 'account closure due to dubious activities, yada yada yada' nonsense.

Not yet at least, but it doesn't guarantee something similar won't happen in near future.
We know that Chainalysis said they are tracking Lightning Network, and more popularity could mean more risk and being under radar of regulators.
I don't know if anyone tried to send BTC that was blacklisted and convert it to Lightning, but this could way around to make Bitcoin really fungible with LN, and then you can spend it with cards like this if you want.

PS
I just heard that CoinDebit is working on international cards  

[Rikafip]

I just heard that CoinDebit is working on international cards  

Great news!

I just checked their website and saw that they finally added some fee info in which they say that "There is a one time load fee of 1%. This fee covers the cost of selling the bitcoin." Do you maybe know if that's the only fee and that there are no hidden ones? That is very competitive fee (if true) and would make this card a very good choice.

[n0nce]

Since a notion of 'taint' and other types of transaction tracing doesn't exist on LN, I guess if such a credit card existed that accepts Lightning deposits, you should be safer from 'account closure due to dubious activities, yada yada yada' nonsense.

Not yet at least, but it doesn't guarantee something similar won't happen in near future.
We know that Chainalysis said they are tracking Lightning Network, and more popularity could mean more risk and being under radar of regulators.

You know my opinion: 'taint' etc. only exists in people's heads. If they believe it exists, it does. If they don't, it doesn't.
Lightning has the chance to do what on-chain Bitcoin failed to do: convince people to accept that any UTXO / any channel state is like any other.

I don't know if anyone tried to send BTC that was blacklisted and convert it to Lightning, but this could way around to make Bitcoin really fungible with LN, and then you can spend it with cards like this if you want.

That would be a cool experiment; but it would need to be repeated with each different 'tainting definition / evaluation service' separately and also repeated over time, since they get more and more sneakier.

PS
I just heard that CoinDebit is working on international cards  

That's good to hear! I plan to give it a try regardless; but international usability would be a big bonus.

[dkbit98]

I just checked their website and saw that they finally added some fee info in which they say that "There is a one time load fee of 1%. This fee covers the cost of selling the bitcoin." Do you maybe know if that's the only fee and that there are no hidden ones? That is very competitive fee (if true) and would make this card a very good choice.

I can't be 100% sure but according to my investigation I don't think they have any hidden fees, and US customers are very happy with this cards so far.
However, they are not perfect, sometimes payment could be rejected for unknown reasons, and this is till beta phase so changes could happen at any time.
I would not use this card for ordering stuff online, but I think it's good option as backup card when you are traveling on the road.

Lightning has the chance to do what on-chain Bitcoin failed to do: convince people to accept that any UTXO / any channel state is like any other.

It's possible, but I think it also has more risk if some bug or exploit is found in LN.
Chances of that happening in battle tested Bitcoin main chain is very low, but good thing is that we can use them both together BTC+LN.
Until someone actually shows how LN transactions are tracked we can only speculate.

[n0nce]

However, they are not perfect, sometimes payment could be rejected for unknown reasons, and this is till beta phase so changes could happen at any time.

Regarding this aspect, it would be great to know if it's possible to send back funds from the card to your Bitcoin wallet. For example, if the merchant didn't recognize the card.
This has always been my issue with debit cards; if the payment doesn't go through, you're stuck with a ton of money on that card and no way to instantly move it to another card, back to your bank account or Bitcoin wallet.

Lightning has the chance to do what on-chain Bitcoin failed to do: convince people to accept that any UTXO / any channel state is like any other.

It's possible, but I think it also has more risk if some bug or exploit is found in LN.
Chances of that happening in battle tested Bitcoin main chain is very low, but good thing is that we can use them both together BTC+LN.

Sure, Lightning is younger and could statistically have more bugs than Bitcoin Core. I was talking about the perception of taint from the 'large population' which in big parts has been brainwashed into believing some arbitrary company's subjective opinion on a certain UTXO as absolute truth. So far, Lightning is being perceived as untraceable and thus also untaintable.

Until someone actually shows how LN transactions are tracked we can only speculate.

Architecturally, the only way to get a good idea about the path of a payment is if you run a lot of Lightning nodes such that the full path (or portion of it) from a sender to a receiver is covered by your nodes.

[Rikafip]

I can't be 100% sure but according to my investigation I don't think they have any hidden fees, and US customers are very happy with this cards so far.

if they only have 1% fee when loading, that makes it on par Binance card when it comes to fees. Even if they have let's say additional 1-2% transaction fee, that would still be acceptable, at least for me. 

Regarding this aspect, it would be great to know if it's possible to send back funds from the card to your Bitcoin wallet. For example, if the merchant didn't recognize the card.
This has always been my issue with debit cards; if the payment doesn't go through, you're stuck with a ton of money on that card and no way to instantly move it to another card, back to your bank account or Bitcoin wallet.

From my experience with other crypto debit card, in case of rejected transaction you just have to try it again and it usually goes through so its not a big problem. Regarding your question about withdrawing your funds from card back to the Bitcoin wallet, I really doubt that is possible as from what I understand, CoinDebit is a prepaid card.

[n0nce]

Regarding this aspect, it would be great to know if it's possible to send back funds from the card to your Bitcoin wallet. For example, if the merchant didn't recognize the card.
This has always been my issue with debit cards; if the payment doesn't go through, you're stuck with a ton of money on that card and no way to instantly move it to another card, back to your bank account or Bitcoin wallet.

From my experience with other crypto debit card, in case of rejected transaction you just have to try it again and it usually goes through so its not a big problem. Regarding your question about withdrawing your funds from card back to the Bitcoin wallet, I really doubt that is possible as from what I understand, CoinDebit is a prepaid card.

Why shouldn't it be possible? I had a prepaid card in the past that you could charge through bank transfer in the EU and it was possible to send balance from the card back to the bank account if needed. It is really helpful; imagine your payment for e.g. some flights is declined and you're stuck with hundreds of $ on said card. Then you need to spend the same amount a second time to charge another card to try again; and spend the balance of the first card on something else. Especially when living in the EU where you basically never pay with credit card, I see this as a big issue of prepaid cards.

[dkbit98]

Architecturally, the only way to get a good idea about the path of a payment is if you run a lot of Lightning nodes such that the full path (or portion of it) from a sender to a receiver is covered by your nodes.

I am certain that government and tracking analytics companies are running lightning nodes already, and they are trying to improve LN tracking.
Maybe you heard about Arcane OS that was advertised as Anom phone but secretly operated by government agencies.
You can even find some of those devices today, usually as Google Pixel, but they obviously don't work anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA1KS-xh0n0

Regarding your question about withdrawing your funds from card back to the Bitcoin wallet, I really doubt that is possible as from what I understand, CoinDebit is a prepaid card.

Even if this was possible, it would probably be custodial wallet so you wouldn't have full control, and they would have to charge extra fees for that.
It's not impossible, but I don't think this will happen for CoinDebit cards.


Interesting news for CoinDebit VIRTUAL card is that it can be now used anywhere in the world that accepts Visa cards, but we need to wait for physical cards to be available.

[DaveF]

Has anyone been able to add these cards to Google / Apple / Samsung / other pay?

I have gotten a few and now have a dollar or 2 left on them with no easy way to spend it. But since it's trivial to use one of the tap to pay services to partly cover physical payments in a store I figured that would be a good way to burn off the last of the money.

It did not work on my setup (One Plus Nord & fitbit) but just about no cards work with that combo for some reason. Keep giving security errors except for Amex.
But that's a rant for the XDA developers board......

-Dave