How soon can you send received BTC in nano ledger?

[jerry0]

Requested btc from a gambling site to nano ledger s and the btc shows up in ledger live latest operations within 10 minutes or so and the amount added to the current btc balance.  When i check information on the transaction, it shows the transaction as unconfirmed.  But the transaction shows up in ledger live and amount is added to the balance.  Now because i already have a btc balance, i know i could send a tiny amount of btc to another gambling site.



But if you had no btc balance on nano ledger and just received btc from a gambling site and it shows no confirmations, when can you send btc to another site?  To make example simple, say you requested x amount of money which equals to about 0.05 btc showing up.  You don't see any confirmations yet.  You want to send say 0.005 btc to another gambling site.  Can you do that in this example or you have to wait until a few confirmations show up first before you send?  Recall back then when i used electrum only, after i receive btc showing up in electrum wallet, i would then send btc immediately to another site.  Example say back then requested 0.05 btc and it showed up in electrum.  Even if it show no confirmations, i still sent around that 0.05 btc to another gambling site.  This was when i already had btc balance there before requesting btc to electrum.  So would a person need to wait for confirmations before sending?  And how many confirmations?



Also If were to send btc pretty much immediately after the 0.05 btc showed up in ledger live, thus send 0.005 btc to another gambling site, where would the 0.005 btc come from ... assuming you aren't using coin control?  Even i f you wai t for many confi rmati ons, after you recei ved te 0.05 btc to nano ledger, you sendi ng 0.005 btc to another gambling site never means that 0.005 btc comes from the recent 0.05 btc receiving address right?  So how does ledger live or electrum chooses whi ch btc address the 0.005 btc you are sending come from?  Now does it make a big difference compared to you not waiting for the receiving transaction confirmation and then you send 0.005 btc immediately to another gambling site the moment the 0.05 btc showed up in ledger live?

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[Charles-Tim]

This should help:

https://www.ledger.com/trickery-is-not-a-vulnerability#:~:text=While%20creating%20a%20Bitcoin%20transaction,pending%20incoming%20transactions%20are%20cancelled.

While creating a Bitcoin transaction, Ledger Live will now no longer let unconfirmed transactions be used for new transactions by default. This will ensure that you won’t be facing any difficulties with the “Send Max” feature – even if any pending incoming transactions are cancelled. This setting can be changed if desired.

If you want to be able to spend unconfirmed transactions on Ledger Live, just like on Electrum, you have to enable it.

[jerry0]

Thanks for that for that information.  But do you recommend for or against turning this feature on ledger live?  Say each time you receive say 0.05 btc but want to then send around that amount or less to another site.  Should you wait a bit so it has confirmation before you send btc to another site?


So if someone has 0 balance on their nano ledger and just received say 0.009 btc from someone and it shows up in their ledger live, thus it shows the balance in portfolio and accounts... but when you check the transaction on latest operations on the transaction tx, shows 0 confirmations, that means that person cannot send say 0.005 btc to someone else right?  But if they already had a balance of say just 0.05 btc, then they could send 0.005 btc to someone else even though the 0.009 btc they received isn't confirmed?


What is the exact setting you are talking about here?  Back then when i used electrum years ago, recall when i had btc balance... when i would then later receive 0.05 btc and it show 0 confirmations on electrum, i would still be able to send 0.05 btc to another site etc.  But is this because i already have a btc balance? 

[hugeblack]

What is the exact setting you are talking about here?  Back then when i used electrum years ago, recall when i had btc balance... when i would then later receive 0.05 btc and it show 0 confirmations on electrum, i would still be able to send 0.05 btc to another site etc.  But is this because i already have a btc balance? 

Remember you can't spend bitcoins you don't own and therefore creating a transaction (unconfirmed transaction) means that you want to spend that money, if you don't have it then that transaction is considered invalid.

So if you enable that option, and your last unconfirmed TX, for example, replaced with a new outputs using RBF, your new transaction will be invalid because you are trying to spend coins that you don't own.

In short, activate that option if you trust the party who will send you money, and you want to send it to an address you trust.

Note: If you do not use coin control feature, enabling this option may reduce your privacy.

[witcher_sense]

Say each time you receive say 0.05 btc but want to then send around that amount or less to another site.  Should you wait a bit so it has confirmation before you send btc to another site?

If an incoming transaction is RBF-flagged, then it would be prudent on your part to wait until it gets several confirmations before sending it further to protect yourself from possible fraud. If a transaction is non-RBF, then you are probably okay to spend it right away because it is unlikely it will be replaced, but still, I would suggest you always wait for a confirmation before doing any manipulations. Please note that in both cases, you can speed up the confirmation process by including an incoming unconfirmed transaction into a new transaction and setting significantly higher fees, which will incentivize miners to include both transactions in a block.

[bitmover]

Thanks for that for that information.  But do you recommend for or against turning this feature on ledger live?  Say each time you receive say 0.05 btc but want to then send around that amount or less to another site.  Should you wait a bit so it has confirmation before you send btc to another site?

You can use Child Pays for Parent. Electrum supports it.

You can read this guide for instructions on how to do it.

https://bitcoinelectrum.com/how-to-do-a-manual-child-pays-for-parent-transaction/

How to do a manual Child Pays For Parent transaction

A Child Pays For Parent (CPFP) transaction is one where you pay a high fee to incentivize miners to also confirm the unconfirmed transaction from which you are drawing the inputs i.e. the parent transaction. Usually you can do a CPFP quite easily from within the Electrum interface (see bump the fee). However, in some cases that is not possible so you can try doing a manual CPFP transaction.

[jerry0]

So if i were to receive btc from a someone that i don't trust yet, and then the btc shows up in ledger live latest operations but 0 confirmations, besides waiting, how do i check, its RBF-flagged?



Yea want to protect from fraud.  When d send btc from ledger live to a site, i believe ledger live auto check RBF enable?



But here im more concerned me of receiving btc from someone .

[Charles-Tim]

In short, activate that option if you trust the party who will send you money, and you want to send it to an address you trust.

People you trust and people you do not trust will send you coins, activating and deactivating it should not be necessary. What is mostly important is for the receiver to know what replace-by-fee is and how parent RBF transaction can be double-spent and make child transaction to become invalid. If the transaction is not confirmed, the receiver can send child transaction which would also remain unconfirmed as long as the parent transaction is not confirmed, but yet not accept the parent transaction that is not yet confirmed untiil it is confirmed.

If an incoming transaction is RBF-flagged, then it would be prudent on your part to wait until it gets several confirmations before sending it further to protect yourself from possible fraud.

Just 1 confirmation is enough, after one confirmation, the parent transaction can no more be double-spent.

So if i were to receive btc from a someone that i don't trust yet, and then the btc shows up in ledger live latest operations but 0 confirmations, besides waiting, how do i check, its RBF-flagged?

I am not certain if you can check it directly on Ledger Live but you can check it on some blockchain explorers like https://blockchair.com. Make sure you use Tor for privacy reason.

[Pmalek]

But if you had no btc balance on nano ledger and just received btc from a gambling site and it shows no confirmations, when can you send btc to another site?

You can't spend coins that you don't have. That's what credit cards are for.
If you receive 0.5 BTC from someone, it will be yours when it gets its first confirmation. After that, you can spend it. Even if you use a wallet that allows you to generate a new transaction from an unconfirmed one, all those future changes will obviously depend on whether the first transaction is valid or not.