Why crypto iGaming still has a long way to go...

[efialtis]

Hey there,

after some thought, I concluded that some of you guys might be interested in learning about this - at the end of the day, the crypto wild west is real and the unprofessionalism is unheard of. This time we are "talking" about BetFury, an operator one might think is big enough to make reasonable decisions.

To be 100% honest, I could not care much less personally (even though I would have of course appreciated the $$$) - what bothers me is how short-sighted a business can/must be in order to act like that... or I am missing something... Ultimately, I will not stop trying to help bring the industry I am working in to a better level, trying to be as transparent as possible while doing so.

I can tell that I have discussed this with numerous iGaming professionals and they all were speechless looking at the numbers and how this is being handled by the operator in question, here BetFury.

I shared this on Medium: https://medium.com/@BTCGOSU/btcgosu-ends-partnership-with-betfury-with-immediate-effect-e33df658c713

[Bttzed03]

I have no idea how much a big affiliate marketer earns but I hope you don't mind if I ask how much you usually make with that amount (BTC13.77) from your referrals in another partner casino. I just want to compare.

When we thought it couldn’t get any more unprofessional, BetFury came along and reduced our previously “improved” affiliate deal — yes, what a joke, considering the numbers above — on the grounds that we no longer promote them.

Was there a prior stipulation that they can do this if the program is terminated?


This is unrelated to your case but it could still be relevant - there was marketer/member who complained about their referrals reduced by Betfury. They deleted accounts that signed up through their ref link for suspicions of bot (IIRC). I think it was later resolved with the complainant winning and I'm not sure if he/she got additional reimbursements.

[efialtis]

I have no idea how much a big affiliate marketer earns but I hope you don't mind if I ask how much you usually make with that amount (BTC13.77) from your referrals in another partner casino. I just want to compare.

When we thought it couldn’t get any more unprofessional, BetFury came along and reduced our previously “improved” affiliate deal — yes, what a joke, considering the numbers above — on the grounds that we no longer promote them.

Was there a prior stipulation that they can do this if the program is terminated?


This is unrelated to your case but it could still be relevant - there was marketer/member who complained about their referrals reduced by Betfury. They deleted accounts that signed up through their ref link for suspicions of bot (IIRC). I think it was later resolved with the complainant winning and I'm not sure if he/she got additional reimbursements.

The very minimum would be ~1.4 BTC - literally talking about the absolute minimum, this would be very far from a good deal (industry average).

They can do whatever they want and I am actually not saying that we have been scammed per sé - even though one could argue this is not very far off. You know the thing is, the traffic that we sent them for free, in exchange for the affiliate deal, is still there and will keep on playing on their site - for that reason, retroactively changing deals is a big no-go - shouldn`t it be an even bigger no-go looking at the figures and the fact they are paying 1/10 of what would be the minimum in this industry?

Go figure - they rather not negotiate a fair deal for both parties and prefer to keep the existing players even though we could have obviously sent them another 400k USD in deposits... says it all, doesn`t it. Who in his right mind would take such a business decision?

[efialtis]

This is JFYI really: Since creating this thread & the medium post, my players deposited another 0.23 BTC (~$7200) with the commission for that being a MASSIVE 0.0015 BTC (~$50).

[efialtis]

Not directly related but underlining the shady business ethics - one could argue that this actually deserves even a flag in this very forum: https://www.btcgosu.com/blog/news/betfury-cheats-players-in-terms-of-cashback/

Disclaimer: My intention is not to advertise my website, not at all - I am sharing the link because everything can be found there in detail and I do not want to just copy/paste the content for numerous reasons, including the weird plagiarism things happening here and then, SEO...

[Solosanz]

Yes, you can hardly believe it, in fact, BetFury answered that the rules were changed today, which is of course absolute nonsense and only goes to show not only how shady this company acts, but also how unprofessional their employees are.

Took from your article, did they really change their rules after/because of this matter? that's really not a professional to do considering how big is Betfury casino. Though rules can be changed every time and every day as they want since they're reserve the right to modify or change it, but change a rules without giving a notifications, any gamblers wouldn't know there's a change since TOS is really long and we can't wasting our time to read it every day.

I think Betfury should look into this matter if they want to continue their journey in this forum.

[UserU]

Seeing this thread after noticing the negative feedback, this is what my commission looks like. Totally pathetic when they wagered almost half a BTC in total.

[efialtis]

Seeing this thread after noticing the negative feedback, this is what my commission looks like. Totally pathetic when they wagered almost half a BTC in total.

A complete joke really, yes - this would not (probably not) give us the right to call them a scam (while as stated before, some would argue that a model as bad as that one, could definitely be considered shady). When they retroactively change deal terms though... and then the cashback issue I have presented in the second post, then one could definitely say that this operation is anything but legit, acting highly unethically.

This is JFYI really: Since creating this thread & the medium post, my players deposited another 0.23 BTC (~$7200) with the commission for that being a MASSIVE 0.0015 BTC (~$50).

Since June 1st, my existing players deposited another 0.64 BTC (~$12,400 right now) and I earned a commission of 0.0005 BTC (less than $10 right now) - unbelievable...

Let me show you this for entertainment purposes!  

[UserU]

Let me show you this for entertainment purposes! 

Damn, that hurts to see much how you were shortchanged

[Chipstars]

The very minimum would be ~1.4 BTC - literally talking about the absolute minimum, this would be very far from a good deal (industry average).

They can do whatever they want and I am actually not saying that we have been scammed per sé - even though one could argue this is not very far off. You know the thing is, the traffic that we sent them for free, in exchange for the affiliate deal, is still there and will keep on playing on their site - for that reason, retroactively changing deals is a big no-go - shouldn`t it be an even bigger no-go looking at the figures and the fact they are paying 1/10 of what would be the minimum in this industry?

Go figure - they rather not negotiate a fair deal for both parties and prefer to keep the existing players even though we could have obviously sent them another 400k USD in deposits... says it all, doesn`t it. Who in his right mind would take such a business decision?

It is safe to say that this is a very bad deal, we are saying this as a casino operator and changing deals after the fact is frowned upon.
We can offer you a much better and would like you to start sending your traffic our way You can be sure we will compensate you fairly.

I am not sure you offered them traffic for free initially or what the agreement was, but I will PM you and we can take it from there.

[Smartvirus]

I am not all that in on these affiliate marketing and earning off referrer deposits but, haven't gone through your text, it seems there wasn't a stipulated amount or expectation from your partnership with the casino and as such, they have paid what they felt commensurate to the deposits received and on that base they haven't done nothing wrong.
But, looking at the numbers that turned out, it seems kind of small. Like as you have here in this quote

Since June 1st, my existing players deposited another 0.64 BTC (~$12,400 right now) and I earned a commission of 0.0005 BTC (less than $10 right now) - unbelievable...

It's indeed ridiculous but, its what they are offering anyways and so, it would always stand for a deal when there wasn't any stipulated amount on the partnership agreement if there was any, aside from what percentage that was offered.

Betfury ran a signature campaign on the forum a while ago and they kept to terms with the participants and as such, I could view them for a company that works based on what they are offering. It would have been more better to have these terms cleared out before working a partnership.

[Alge898]

I have just explained why the betfury referrals seems very shady:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5276159.msg61177519#msg61177519

I don't think OP is a noob, so he know exactly how the referrals system works  

It's not profitable? ok, simply don't promote it instead of making a public case...

[SyGambler]

I have never been good at affiliate so I honestly don't have a full idea about how numbers should be
but my friend I guess you should consider how much betfury gives back for their players in term of cashback-rakeback-races-dividends....etc
I think Betfury ( and other dividends casinos ) can't be compared with other casinos since their revenue isn't the same

about the cashback thing , you sure it happened in last June ? cause it's been like this for over a year and yeah it was a sudden change if I remember right

[efialtis]

I have been in gambling affiliation for over 15 years now, and I know a thing or two about it - there are no two opinions about the situation with betfury and as a matter of fact, retroactive changes of deals are as shady as it gets.

The cashback thing has never changed actually and if you check the information on their respective pages, you will confirm. I do not think I need to repeat what I have already stated, the explanations can be found on medium.

Generally speaking though, if you are saying that so-called "dividends casinos" are a scam by design, then yes, I will have to agree fully... 

[Chipstars]

I have been in gambling affiliation for over 15 years now, and I know a thing or two about it - there are no two opinions about the situation with betfury and as a matter of fact, retroactive changes of deals are as shady as it gets.

The cashback thing has never changed actually and if you check the information on their respective pages, you will confirm. I do not think I need to repeat what I have already stated, the explanations can be found on medium.

Generally speaking though, if you are saying that so-called "dividends casinos" are a scam by design, then yes, I will have to agree fully... 

We know personally that you have learned a lesson, I have seen the paperwork:-)

A word of advise to the other brands, do not ever make deals based on wagers, this is a recent phenomenon mainly with crypto casinos and you can only ever lose. The wagering metric is too unstable, first because lifetimes of players are rather short and second, the calculation might be wager with an additional factor of GGR, the only ones who profit from high wager values are the casinos, keep in mind this advise is coming from a casino.

Just stick to rev share deals based on GGR, under no circumstances rev share based on wager. Keep it simple.

[dbc23]

If betfury dld change their rules then courtesy demand the notify their affiliates before making such changes affiliates work based on ToS if it is favourable the don't mind adjusting to what ever change of rules, otherwise the terminate the contract. . It is well understood running a casino can be a challenging but slashing rewards of their affiliates without prior notification showed high level of unprofessionalism.

I don't know what percentage was agreed between Betfury and OP but to be honest receiving 4,800 USD as reward out of 400,000 USD deposited from their affiliate services is way below expectations approximately 0.015%. In which a fear deal should range between 5-15% reward. I don't know what agreement OP made before now with Betfury but sincerely if this how betfury treat their partners it might be difficult having good deals in the future.

[efialtis]

Let me show you this for entertainment purposes! 

Damn, that hurts to see much how you were shortchanged

Look at this now, some months later...

[BetFury.io]

Hey there,

after some thought, I concluded that some of you guys might be interested in learning about this - at the end of the day, the crypto wild west is real and the unprofessionalism is unheard of. This time we are "talking" about BetFury, an operator one might think is big enough to make reasonable decisions.

To be 100% honest, I could not care much less personally (even though I would have of course appreciated the $$$) - what bothers me is how short-sighted a business can/must be in order to act like that... or I am missing something... Ultimately, I will not stop trying to help bring the industry I am working in to a better level, trying to be as transparent as possible while doing so.

I can tell that I have discussed this with numerous iGaming professionals and they all were speechless looking at the numbers and how this is being handled by the operator in question, here BetFury.

I shared this on Medium: https://medium.com/@BTCGOSU/btcgosu-ends-partnership-with-betfury-with-immediate-effect-e33df658c713

Hi!

Can I ask for your contacts to clarify the circumstances and resolve this issue?
Thank you

Yours sincerely,
BetFury

[NotATether]

Hi!

Can I ask for your contacts to clarify the circumstances and resolve this issue?
Thank you

Yours sincerely,
BetFury

You really should've noticed this problem earlier as it's over 1 year old.

If you are serious about contacting efialtis, you should try via btcgosu website or the Telegram channel as he's more active there.

[efialtis]

Hey there,

after some thought, I concluded that some of you guys might be interested in learning about this - at the end of the day, the crypto wild west is real and the unprofessionalism is unheard of. This time we are "talking" about BetFury, an operator one might think is big enough to make reasonable decisions.

To be 100% honest, I could not care much less personally (even though I would have of course appreciated the $$$) - what bothers me is how short-sighted a business can/must be in order to act like that... or I am missing something... Ultimately, I will not stop trying to help bring the industry I am working in to a better level, trying to be as transparent as possible while doing so.

I can tell that I have discussed this with numerous iGaming professionals and they all were speechless looking at the numbers and how this is being handled by the operator in question, here BetFury.

I shared this on Medium: https://medium.com/@BTCGOSU/btcgosu-ends-partnership-with-betfury-with-immediate-effect-e33df658c713

Hi!

Can I ask for your contacts to clarify the circumstances and resolve this issue?
Thank you

Yours sincerely,
BetFury

Hi,

now that`s a surprise and I am not sure if you are serious about it, willing to really find a "solution"...

We tried to find a solution multiple times. In September 2022, some employee of yours reached out via email, we responded like this:

"Hi X,

thank you for your message.

This is what happened:

https://medium.com/@BTCGOSU/btcgosu-ends-partnership-with-betfury-with-immediate-effect-e33df658c713

https://medium.com/@BTCGOSU/betfury-cheats-players-in-terms-of-cashback-btcgosu-1441ca1b4eac"

Your response was this:

"Thank you. Considering all our reputational damage after these articles were published, we could not let this happen again.

Best regards,
X."

Then, a month later, you came up with the below:

I have never blackmailed anyone, including Betfury. The act of retroactively changing an affiliate deal is unethical unless there is a mutual agreement on how this is going to be handled, ie paying out a lump sum and letting it go, full stop. And that is when I shared this in public (Medium). So is not following up on cashback promises and selectively making up some terms that do not exist, not to this very day. That is when I shared this 2nd story in public (Medium).

For what it is worth, I am long over this story and I could not care less about it nowadays.

Nb. It is hilarious that you seem to be playing the victim card now when it is YOU literally taking massive advantage of the big traffic we have sent you --> not honoring the negotiated deal

Nb 2. I am removing the negative tag here on the forum anyway, not because it did not happen but simply because there are way more brands that have acted similarly shady and whom I never tagged

Nb 3. Any discussion on the subject on a professional base shall happen via email (you know our official email address) in case you ever want to solve this. We have tried more than once, with no success.

Thanks, we're not interested in talking about it anymore. Just like you, we are not interested in discussing this case. Users ask - we/you answer. I hope we will continue to discuss the platform and token here. Wish you all the best 🤗

So yeah, if you really want to discuss a solution, please hit us up via email using the contact form on our website (or by checking previous email conversation) - let`s just not waste each other`s time. Generally, as you know, I have always been keen to resolve this, that`s how I operate.