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Author Topic: IRS Ruling Best thing Imaginable, You Idiots  (Read 1714 times)
Jdoss
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March 27, 2014, 08:43:07 PM
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So I have to chime in here. Since the IRS ruling I have been trolling ariound gauging sentiment for my blog. The talk is overwhelmingly negative. I am not surprised considering how many Libertarians use BTC and how irrational tax fear is amongst most Libertarians. Although I do agree its is absurd that the Government use our money to fund the CDC, Roads, National Defense, Libraries and so forth. Anyway when I saw the ruling I was very happy. In one move the IRS has just made BTC legitimate. Let us begin.

Most people who want to use BTC like to live in a fantasy workd where most people understand things like PGP Keys, TOR, Block Chains, Digital Wallets, and Escrow. In my expereince maybe 1/100 people have the wisdom to understand the previous and in general just because soemthing seems simple to you does not mean it is simple to everyone else. The same can be said about the taxability of Bitcoin. Only a few people have the balls to actually do business in a totally unregulated, OTC currency that has no tax law associated with it. By regulating it, the IRS is going to open the flood gates. New businesses will now have teh ability to use BTC and in the end it is the use by business that will add value to BTC.

Now BTC will crash and it will keep crashing until the irrational fear subsides. The only real issue that the IRS created is a matter of tracking, ie how to track your Cost Basis for taxability. But thats teh good news, BTC users can invent a tracking system but they cant set tax policy.

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March 27, 2014, 08:51:07 PM
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crash if you want ... but when social tax (or irs like i say) is 30% in 1970 and 60% in 2013, we have a serious problem here. Roll Eyes

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March 27, 2014, 09:15:49 PM
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I thought of 5 things when I heard about the IRS thing:

1. Makes washing money extremely easy now, it that was a person's intent.
2. Manipulating capital loss.  I'm not an accountant, but I'd imagine that it wouldn't be to hard to show massive losses in bitcoin value, while not really sustaining those losses, for the purposes of other investments subject to capital gains tax.
3. Exchanges are now subject to some sort of bailor or whatever type of agreement and they can get insurance?
4. How can one write off the gox coins I bought on bitcoinbuilder, through other means, transferred to gox, etc?  Also they stole property from people now, so no matter what shouldn't they be in jail?
5. Specialized bitcoin accountant cert, classes, etc?

All of those things are good for btc value, maybe not image, but yeah.
Way btc is going, I can meet this 3k for income probably, hopefully I can write off mining equipment as business expenses somehow, but more likely I'm not going to find an accountant who will go within a mile of me.
 
     
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March 27, 2014, 09:44:16 PM
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I agree. There are definitely more pros than cons with the IRS ruling about bitcoin. For one, it means the US govt is not going to ban bitcoin transactions or the buying/selling of bitcoin like Russia. Secondly, it gives bitcoin more advertising. Most people still don't know what bitcoin is. Lastly, it just proves that the IRS believes bitcoin is WORTH SOMETHING!!!

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Robert Paulson
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March 27, 2014, 09:46:27 PM
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if you ignore the fact that actually buying anything with bitcoin in America just became a bureaucratic mess then yes the news is very positive  Undecided
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March 27, 2014, 09:50:34 PM
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So I have to chime in here. Since the IRS ruling I have been trolling ariound gauging sentiment for my blog. The talk is overwhelmingly negative. I am not surprised considering how many Libertarians use BTC and how irrational tax fear is amongst most Libertarians. Although I do agree its is absurd that the Government use our money to fund the CDC, Roads, National Defense, Libraries and so forth. Anyway when I saw the ruling I was very happy. In one move the IRS has just made BTC legitimate. Let us begin.

Most people who want to use BTC like to live in a fantasy workd where most people understand things like PGP Keys, TOR, Block Chains, Digital Wallets, and Escrow. In my expereince maybe 1/100 people have the wisdom to understand the previous and in general just because soemthing seems simple to you does not mean it is simple to everyone else. The same can be said about the taxability of Bitcoin. Only a few people have the balls to actually do business in a totally unregulated, OTC currency that has no tax law associated with it. By regulating it, the IRS is going to open the flood gates. New businesses will now have teh ability to use BTC and in the end it is the use by business that will add value to BTC.

Now BTC will crash and it will keep crashing until the irrational fear subsides. The only real issue that the IRS created is a matter of tracking, ie how to track your Cost Basis for taxability. But thats teh good news, BTC users can invent a tracking system but they cant set tax policy.

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I agree Jdoss.  This was a positive for bitcoin.  

Like you said, "users can now invent a [gain/loss] tracking system."  One idea is ZGL-coins (zero gain/loss coins) for day-to-day transactions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=531135.0).  These coins are fused in real-time from coins acquired above and below the current market price such that they have a capital gain/loss of exactly zero at the moment they are spent.  This doesn't avoid capital gains tax, it just moves it from a bunch of small $2 transactions, to a few larger "taxable events" that happen much less frequently.  
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March 27, 2014, 10:01:08 PM
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Bitcoin ain't gonna crash. It still holding above $500. It's only down now because of the ever present Chinese ban BTC rumors.
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March 27, 2014, 10:04:14 PM
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Bitcoin ain't gonna crash. It still holding above $500. It's only down now because of the ever present Chinese ban BTC rumors.


^ this

The chinese markets are huge and have historically had a big impact on the global price of btc. There's been times before when a btc market in china has gone under and the price dropped for a couple weeks before going back up.
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March 27, 2014, 10:13:17 PM
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So I have to chime in here. Since the IRS ruling I have been trolling ariound gauging sentiment for my blog. The talk is overwhelmingly negative. I am not surprised considering how many Libertarians use BTC and how irrational tax fear is amongst most Libertarians. Although I do agree its is absurd that the Government use our money to fund the CDC, Roads, National Defense, Libraries and so forth. Anyway when I saw the ruling I was very happy. In one move the IRS has just made BTC legitimate. Let us begin.

I agree with you.   I would think that those who desire a shadow economy in which to tax-evade/launder/whatever would at least want to have huge rocks (honest, tax-paying economies) to hide under.

Desiring to keep bitcoin as the exclusive domain of a tax-evading/black market economy would only makes holders of bitcoin more identifiable targets by governments.
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March 27, 2014, 10:22:15 PM
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Never for one moment believed they would or even attempt to ban Bitcoin.

Look at the way computers, Web and cellphones have evolved... it's only natural for currencies too  Wink

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March 27, 2014, 11:31:04 PM
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Never for one moment believed they would or even attempt to ban Bitcoin.

Look at the way computers, Web and cellphones have evolved... it's only natural for currencies too  Wink

Good point. Remember 30 years ago when the rotary phone was commonplace? And now it is antiquated. Well, 30 years from now we might be saying the same thing about dollar bills. "When I was a kid, we used paper money, can you believe that? And we called our money 'US Dollars', isn't that funny?"

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March 27, 2014, 11:39:46 PM
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Except this basically kills mining in the US, at least at a large scale. Whether that effect is good or not is up for debate.

Just another way the US will fall behind other nations in the growth of Bitcoin technologies, and drive big miners out of the country for more neutral ground.


In terms of investor interests, this ruling is great. Big investors won't be so timid with clear IRS guidance that handles a Bitcoin just like a stock or other asset to jump in.

However for Bitcoin spenders and miners this is a travesty and a joke. People in the US will stop spending and just hold BTC instead, hurting the US Bitcoin economy and the many businesses that accept BTC. It also creates a large tax burden on business transacting in BTC.

There is a little good here, but it seems mostly bad, and we should protest the IRS in its decisions before just bowing down to ill-conceived guidance that they created with the input of no one in the community.
Beliathon
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March 28, 2014, 01:14:12 AM
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"I'm sorry Mr. taxman, I accidentally sent all my BTC to this address (insert literally any address) and then I lost the password! All my wealth was destroyed... hey can I have some of your fiat?"

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kthejung
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March 28, 2014, 03:43:51 AM
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"I'm sorry Mr. taxman, I accidentally sent all my BTC to this address (insert literally any address) and then I lost the password! All my wealth was destroyed... hey can I have some of your fiat?"

good point; until the taxman's inspectors catch you buying a new yacht a month later.

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March 28, 2014, 05:20:59 AM
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Well I could have done with out you calling people idiots.. Not sure how that is even remotely helpful but hey have at it.  There is always 2 sides two every coin I'll just leave it at that.

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March 28, 2014, 05:32:14 AM
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redacted

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bananahoho
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March 28, 2014, 09:37:31 AM
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IRS no way to know a bitcoin address behind which corresponds to people, and this is coming from a transfer. This makes for a bit for tax credits is very difficult. In many cases, you have no way to trace the source of a bit-currency deposits, such as those early miners mining proceeds. Moreover, even if the IRS has a record I buy bitcoins, I declared that Bitcoin has been lost, I can not remember a private key, IRS still take me nothing can be done. So for Bitcoin taxes is unrealistic thing.

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March 28, 2014, 10:05:24 AM
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Except this basically kills mining in the US, at least at a large scale.

This assumes that previously US citizens were not required to pay tax on their "magical mysterory money". Sorry, not the way that works, the moment I sell BTC I've generated income and have to pay taxes. The only difference is that now the IRS has clearly defined how they want people to account for these assets.

So, any large operations in the US who were avoid taxes previously will probably countinung to do so until the exchanges are forced to collect tax information.

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