Why do these accounts have the right to wear a clickable signature on the forum?

[Coyster]

If you create rules for admission to your companies for participants who have earned more than 10 merits within three or six months,

That (campaign) rule already exists in most, if not all of the signature campaigns on the forum, such rules are established by the managers of signature campaigns cause most of them are reputable members of our community, and they want to make sure that spammers do not earn through campaigns run by them. But what of the situation of the bounty campaigns, or scam related signature campaigns, the managers of these kind of campaigns do not care, their managers are more often than not newbies, or users that haven't earned any merits themselves in a long while/ever, tagging them doesn't even make any difference to them, they still go about their business unscathed.

The only way what you say can be wholly adhered to is if it is made a forum rule, and not a 'voluntary' campaign rule, but that is never going to happen, the forum doesn't even have an "official" rule on more salient issues.

[Little Mouse]

Though I don’t have stats, I think there are users who haven’t posted in the last 4/5 years and among them, there are Legendary, Hero, Sr member and they already have seen the rank when the last time browsed the forum.
Now, if the airdropped merits are taken away, they will someday discover that they aren’t anymore Legendary member while I think the true Legends are the OLD users.
That would be something outrage I think.

[Poker Player]

-snip

While I agree with most of what you say and thank you for the detailed response, I will quote where I think you are wrong:

If you want solutions, there are solutions. The forum could put a signature ban until people earn 10 merits and in those cases that you are saying, those who returned to the forum would be able to earn 10 merits in no time. They would have their merits and rank intact and their clickable signature right away.

So the shitposters buy 10 Merit with the account they bought, and continue.

The same way they buy it now? All the threads we see like "How can I get merit?" "How can I get high rank in BCT?" are because it's not that easy to buy merit and there are many who are stuck in newbie without moving up in rank. If we thought that way the merit system would never have worked because all shitposters could buy merit and would have no restrictions on getting paid to write crap. When the reality is that it has worked and buying merit is far from being widespread.

On this I agree with neuroticfish again:

And maybe I live in a dream world, by buying merits is not so wide spread (as buying accounts) and risky (or riskier) too. And if it's risky and expensive it may not worth the price (one can hope...)

To get down to the specific case:

I don't understand how this account can even be active in forum when he is doing ban evasion for years... so wearing a signature or not is much less problem in this case.

Thanks for that. Although I am raising the general issue here of why accounts of this style are entitled to clickable signatures, it is good to know. I will quote you in the ban evasion thread.

[Mpamaegbu]

But of course, a lot depends on the managers.

That's my position too. Solving that issue should lie within the jurisdiction of campaign managers to sieve out users without earned merit over a period of time. Sadly, the site the accused is promoting doesn't require any restrictions to get it. A campaign that scams and accepts red tagged users accused of scamming can't do better that what they're doing. This brings be back to the issue of why isn't scam regulated in the forum. Plagiarism is seriously frown at here; why not scam?

[aysg76]

That (campaign) rule already exists in most, if not all of the signature campaigns on the forum, such rules are established by the managers of signature campaigns cause most of them are reputable members of our community, and they want to make sure that spammers do not earn through campaigns run by them. But what of the situation of the bounty campaigns, or scam related signature campaigns, the managers of these kind of campaigns do not care, their managers are more often than not newbies, or users that haven't earned any merits themselves in a long while/ever, tagging them doesn't even make any difference to them, they still go about their business unscathed.

If you see you will find out that most of the signature campaign have the rule of having 5 earned merits in the last 120 days and there could be slight changes in some of them but most of the managers have this condition of selecting the potential members in that campaign so as to reduce the spam through that signature.

But if you look at 1xbit or 1xbet signature campaign participants you will see they all having negative tags for promoting scam campaign on the forum but still they are getting paid and they shitpost as the rule of the campaign says these tags don't matter and paying high rates to them.So these members don't care at all as they only want to earn and also getting paid for writing up shit post and this needs to be tackled seriously.

Speaking of bounty hunters then they are not posting to the forum and scope is limited to submissions only with hundred of post doing the same thing as discussed many times and it can't be solved.

[KingsDen]

Airdrop is a reward given to early adopters, either for doing some jobs or for believing the system at it's early stage. Let's assume that some people recieved bitcoin airdrop 10yrs ago, but because the persosn are unable to recieve more bitcoins, then the airdropped bitcoin will be retrieved from them. It doesn't go well to my view.

Speaking about the account in question. It could be that it was dormant for 3 to 4years until 1xbit came and it resurrected and joined the campaign. Since it joined the campaign, most of them spams alot and doesn't have the chances of receiving merits.
I do not send out merit to anyone with legitimate red tag, no matter how quality it is. I believe some persons are together with me on this. So anyone promoting 1xbit has a very slim chance of receiving merits.

[UmerIdrees]

I think consideration should be given to either derank such accounts or give them a signature ban until they are able to earn the 10 fucking merits that enable them to wear clickable signatures, as it happens to accounts that were created after the merit system was introduced.

Well, after the merit system was implemented, Jr. Member can also wear a signature and needs only one merit. Anyways I agree with your point of view but then it will just create things more complicated. Why not we report these spam posts and their account will be automatic ban after extensive deletion of posts.

Edit: in light of the discussion, I think the solution would be to remove all airdropped merit as NeuroticFish suggests.

This should have been implemented when the merit system was introduced. Don't think it will be wise to implement this at this moment 

[Z-tight]

Airdrop is a reward given to early adopters, either for doing some jobs or for believing the system at it's early stage. Let's assume that some people recieved bitcoin airdrop 10yrs ago, but because the persosn are unable to recieve more bitcoins, then the airdropped bitcoin will be retrieved from them. It doesn't go well to my view.

I am in the know that you are only attempting to drive home your point by comparing these two (dissimilar) situations, but even at that, this example is wrong and inapplicable, Bitcoin transactions once signed by the sender, broadcasted to the network and validated by a miner who gets the mathematical problem correctly, cannot be reversed. So even if we make an imaginal situation like you have done, it is not feasible as a result of Bitcoins irreversible nature; airdropped merits on the other hand is incomparable to Bitcoin transactions, it can be removed or reversed by Theymos if he feels the need to do so, or when he feels it is being of more harm that good, it is reversible unlike Bitcoin transactions, making it easier to achieve.

I do not send out merit to anyone with legitimate red tag, no matter how quality it is. I believe some persons are together with me on this. So anyone promoting 1xbit has a very slim chance of receiving merits.

Members with legitimate red tag can also make quality posts and deserve merits. The trust system and merit system are independent of each other, the trust system is for warnings and information about how trustworthy or untrustworthy a member is, leaning more on matters of trade and commerce. The merit system is for quality posts, and i have read some members say you must not even agree with these quality posts to give merits to them. So an untrustworthy user (in trade and commerce) can make quality posts and should be merited for them, no less that other members, only users that post spam should be deprived of merits.

[SatoPrincess]

Airdrop is a reward given to early adopters, either for doing some jobs or for believing the system at it's early stage. Let's assume that some people recieved bitcoin airdrop 10yrs ago, but because the persosn are unable to recieve more bitcoins, then the airdropped bitcoin will be retrieved from them. It doesn't go well to my view.

Same feelings here. I think the airdropped merits should be taken away. Even though people usually don’t rate airdrop merits as merits earned, hence the self congratulatory posts for new ranks and merits achieved.  

Speaking about the account in question. It could be that it was dormant for 3 to 4years until 1xbit came and it resurrected and joined the campaign. Since it joined the campaign, most of them spams alot and doesn't have the chances of receiving merits.
I do not send out merit to anyone with legitimate red tag, no matter how quality it is. I believe some persons are together with me on this. So anyone promoting 1xbit has a very slim chance of receiving merits.

Majority of the campaign participants are accounts that woke up recently. The accounts could have been hacked or bought by them to participate in campaign, nothing more. It will be difficult to make posts that deserve merits when your intent is to spam your way to complete signature post requirements

[The Sceptical Chymist]

OP, I completely share your frustration with jokers like S A KHAIR (and I'm labeling him such not because he's in the 1xbit campaign but because I've looked at his post history).  This is the first post I saw when I pulled it up:

Actually, It is wrong to combine money and happiness. It is true that one can never be happy with money but in some cases, money brings happiness and makes people smile.
For example, if a person who has been starving for a long time is given some money to buy food, then a smile of relief appears on his face. Let's look at another example Someone is suffering from debt, he can't afford to pay off the loan, so if he is helped with some money, that money will bring him some happiness.

This is the typical bloated shitpost written in vague generalities that satisfies character quota without actually saying anything interesting, novel, or important--or adding to the thread which it was in, in any way.  Not surprising he hasn't earned any merits, because his posts probably don't even get read.

Sadly, if you asked this fuck what his job was, he'd probably tell you he's a writer, and I'd find that very sad because technically it's true.  It's just the lowest form of writing imaginable and done for the wrong reasons to boot.

As far as his rank goes, this is one of the members who got lucky--and also one of the lucky ones who stuck around until now to continue shitposting for money.  The bright side is that unless accounts like his get sold, they're going to drop off as time goes on simply by attrition.  At least I'm hoping that's the case.  And by the way, the suggestions you made, OP, I'd support them in a heartbeat.  There's still a shitposting problem that hasn't been entirely alleviated by the merit system, and just a little bit more tightening as far as restrictions for newbies and members like S A CaCa here would be well-received by those of us who care about the forum.

[_BlackStar]

As far as his rank goes, this is one of the members who got lucky--and also one of the lucky ones who stuck around until now to continue shitposting for money.  The bright side is that unless accounts like his get sold, they're going to drop off as time goes on simply by attrition.  At least I'm hoping that's the case.

It seems we have a lot of users who only focus on making money on forum just by sending spam. Most of them are bounty hunters and they don't get any merit as long as they are active in the forum regardless of their rank. I got some high ranking users ^{[Sr-Legendary]} who just take advantage of any contest to get merit and try their luck joining the signature campaign, luckily they got accepted although I believe they are spammers who have filled my reporting history to the moderators.

I don't really know if the campaign manager is aware of that but I can confirm if they post anything other than on the gambling board then it's likely that the post will be removed as it's of bad quality.

[Upgrade00]

I don't really know if the campaign manager is aware of that but I can confirm if they post anything other than on the gambling board then it's likely that the post will be removed as it's of bad quality.

Such users would not make it into majority of the campaigns around as the managers have some sort of entry check in place to select the participants that get into their campaigns.
Luckily for them, and unfortunately for the forum; once in a while scam campaign or one which does not care about the users that promote them comes around and pays them to spam the forum. It's not ideal, but there's little that can be done about it.

Removing airdropped merits would surely help to an extent to curb how such users apply for campaigns, it only ejld have a bit of effect to other regular users who contributed to the forum.

[Igebotz]

Airdrop is a reward given to early adopters, either for doing some jobs or for believing the system at it's early stage. Let's assume that some people recieved bitcoin airdrop 10yrs ago, but because the persosn are unable to recieve more bitcoins, then the airdropped bitcoin will be retrieved from them. It doesn't go well to my view.

Same feelings here. I think the airdropped merits should be taken away. Even though people usually don’t rate airdrop merits as merits earned, hence the self congratulatory posts for new ranks and merits achieved. 

It was a reward for loyalty, and you want it taken away? It wouldn't solve anything, and I'm not sure how many of you would be active if the merits and signature campaign is taken away from the forum.

The majority of those spamming the forum are newbies and those who don't care about the merit system; you'll see a lot of them if you go to WO and P&S.

[Lucius]

Edit: in light of the discussion, I think the solution would be to remove all airdropped merit as NeuroticFish suggests.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if someone took 1000 merits from me, I didn't ask for them or invent the merit system, and I had already reached Legendary rank before the system came to life. However, I do not think that we should go to such drastic measures to punish some individual cases that behave like leeches on the forum, but that airdropped merits could be taken away from those who really proved to be members who have no contribution to the forum.

Yet if you consider that the issue of removing airdropped merits has been the subject of debate many times, and that there has been no concrete response from the admin (as far as I personally remember) - I think such a move is very unlikely.

It was a reward for loyalty, and you want it taken away?

Don’t confuse loyalty with the fact that before the merit system, every (literally) spammer and shitppster could get hold of any rank without writing at least one quality and meaningful post. The member listed in the OP is a classic example of someone who would never become a Full Member in today’s system, so we can’t say that his airdropped merits are a reward for loyalty.

It wouldn't solve anything, and I'm not sure how many of you would be active if the merits and signature campaign is taken away from the forum.

Most of the new members who started from scratch are not in any danger of being deprived of something, and most of the active members have collected several times more merits over the years than they received based on the rank they had when the merits system was introduced.

[KingsDen]

I do not send out merit to anyone with legitimate red tag, no matter how quality it is. I believe some persons are together with me on this. So anyone promoting 1xbit has a very slim chance of receiving merits.

Members with legitimate red tag can also make quality posts and deserve merits. The trust system and merit system are independent of each other, the trust system is for warnings and information about how trustworthy or untrustworthy a member is, leaning more on matters of trade and commerce. The merit system is for quality posts, and i have read some members say you must not even agree with these quality posts to give merits to them. So an untrustworthy user (in trade and commerce) can make quality posts and should be merited for them, no less that other members, only users that post spam should be deprived of merits.

We are approaching the issue from different angles. While you are focusing on theory, I am speaking from the practical aspect of the matter. No matter how independent the trust system is with the merit system, they compliment each other.
No matter how quality your post is, once I see negative tags and check the reasons for the tag. If they are legitimate, I'll not send a merit to you. I believe other members of the forum does same, no matter how good you are, immediately you have legitimate red tag from reputable members of the forum, your chances of receiving merits are slim.

Since scam is not moderated, which means a notorious scammer would not be banned, that's my own means of paying back scammers. Well, it doesn't actually matter because I'm not a merit sourece.

[Z-tight]

We are approaching the issue from different angles. While you are focusing on theory, I am speaking from the practical aspect of the matter. No matter how independent the trust system is with the merit system, they compliment each other.
No matter how quality your post is, once I see negative tags and check the reasons for the tag. If they are legitimate, I'll not send a merit to you. I believe other members of the forum does same, no matter how good you are, immediately you have legitimate red tag from reputable members of the forum, your chances of receiving merits are slim.

The merit system and trust system are two completely different systems and they do not complement one another in any way i can think of, let me quote Theymos' post regarding sending of merits

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

A member with a legitimate negative tag can make high quality posts and deserves to be merited, it should not put them in a different position from another member that has no negative tag. It is yours to decide how you give your merit, what i am just bringing to the fore is that negative feedbacks is not and should not be a criteria when sending merits, you would be better of looking at the quality, helpfulness, effort, post history and other things, but not negative feedbacks. A member you should not merit is one that posts spam.

Since scam is not moderated, which means a notorious scammer would not be banned, that's my own means of paying back scammers. Well, it doesn't actually matter because I'm not a merit sourece.

Tag them and warn other members about their bad reputation; but if you see a post of them that is worth meriting, you should merit it, but well like you said it doesn't matter, your merit is yours to use in a manner of your choosing.

[Pmalek]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if someone took 1000 merits from me, I didn't ask for them or invent the merit system, and I had already reached Legendary rank before the system came to life. However, I do not think that we should go to such drastic measures to punish some individual cases that behave like leeches on the forum, but that airdropped merits could be taken away from those who really proved to be members who have no contribution to the forum.

I am against this proposal of removing airdropped merits. It doesn't affect me personally, just as it doesn't affect you, but that's not the point. If a decision was made to introduce this system, which also entails airdropped merits, it seems a bit unserious to make changes to it now. The system works, it is not perfect because perfect doesn't exist.

Yet if you consider that the issue of removing airdropped merits has been the subject of debate many times, and that there has been no concrete response from the admin (as far as I personally remember) - I think such a move is very unlikely.

And hopefully it stays that way. I would rather have more people come to the forum, than finding ways to drive those who are here away. If they break rules, use the ban hammer.

[Poker Player]

Let's update this thread with the bunch of morons who are applying for the new 1xCrap signature campaign:

Sweminer777 0 merit earned.

crunck 2 merits earned.

MoonOfLife 0 merit earned.

Party24*7 0 merit earned.

ipanks 7 merits earned.

watergold 1 merit earned.

Nanbaka 11 merits earned.

pieppiep 2 merits earned.

gabriela1999 10 merits earned.

SamboNZ 3 merits earned.

lulumiya 4 merits earned.

tazmantasik 6 merits earned.

(o)(o)ilikeboobs(o)(o) 5 merits earned.

Jasad 0 merits earned.

muratsink 6 merits earned.

vvikkass 0 merits earned.

mrongoz_imut 0 merits earned.

Roidz 0 merits earned.

We clearly see that the vast majority of them would not have been able to reach full member if the same rules had been applied to them since the merit system came into force.

And this is only on page 1 of the campaign thread, so there are a lot of accounts that are taking advantage of this.

[Lucius]

I am against this proposal of removing airdropped merits. It doesn't affect me personally, just as it doesn't affect you, but that's not the point. If a decision was made to introduce this system, which also entails airdropped merits, it seems a bit unserious to make changes to it now. The system works, it is not perfect because perfect doesn't exist.

I doubt that there would be at least 1% of active members who would support such a move even if such a proposal were put to the vote. People are basically very reluctant to be deprived of something they got and I have no doubt that a real rebellion would break out if something like that happened. In addition, if things get out of hand - an option that is already on the table is a complete ban on signature campaigns.

We clearly see that the vast majority of them would not have been able to reach full member if the same rules had been applied to them since the merit system came into force.

There is no doubt that these are members who are completely worthless to the forum in every sense, and they should be prevented from having signatures. The question is how to do it if removing airdropped merits is not a realistic option and the scam is not moderated by the forum?

[Poker Player]

The question is how to do it if removing airdropped merits is not a realistic option and the scam is not moderated by the forum?

That's not the point Lucius. Or at least not the point I am trying to make.

My point is that those morons shouldn't have the right to wear a clickable signature just because they registered on a certain date, and I think that on that we agree.

If theymos wants to put a solution to this, there are solutions. Some have been discussed and there may be others but let's not focus the debate on how supposedly difficult it is to remove the clickable signature to these morons because it is not.