Conversation with NanoGames
Started on June 1, 2022 at 11:10 PM Europe/Amsterdam time CEST (GMT+0200)
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11:10 PM | Visitor: Hii
11:10 PM | Operator: NanoGames typically replies in under 20m.
11:10 PM | Operator: Give the team a way to reach you:
11:14 PM | steph from NanoGames: hello, how we can help you?
11:14 PM | Visitor:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105754.100The specified seed for the Roulette Multiplayer is wrong. Seed f6c4a94c4a2dd2912fbef23fb68aa56488313a343c9cf6c95e52b8ef74230991 does not appear anywhere in the current seed chain. This means that since 2019, at some point in time, the chain has been edited and manipulated at the casino's discretion and is not provably fair anymore. This a pretty big deal and not acceptable, as many players played with thousands in this corrupt chain. i kindly demand a $500,000 in crypto compensation, to recover the money I unjustly lost in this corrupt seed chain, as a reward for having noticed such a relevant noncompliance from your part, and of course in exchange of my collaboration in not spreading this news further, and not damaging your reputation. Please understand this is the first crypto casino to have broken the provably fair chain generation and is a very big deal and unacceptable. All is well all that ends well, send me the money compensation and we'll forget about it.
11:22 PM | Visitor: Have you received my message?
11:51 PM | Dennis from NanoGames: Hello,
The seed has been changed with the new update in January 2022, before that roulette was actually disabled. Therefore also our GitHub page is updated and you can see the new salt there with the date of post. You are right there should be another provably fair event and I will forward this feedback to our team. However, that doesn't mean that we manipulated any of the games. We can reward you with a compensation of 250 USD in one coin of your choice.
Best regards
11:55 PM | Visitor: Can you link me the GitHub updated post? Thank you. If that is the case, I guess all is good. Please send a USDT reward to the following address:
11:55 PM | Visitor: (erc20)
12:01 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Here is the link to the github repo of the roulette verifier page.
https://github.com/NanoGamesio/verify/blob/main/roulette.html You can see there, that we didn't change it since 21 of January.
12:04 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Thanks again for letting us know. The USDT payment will be sent in the next 20-40min.
12:05 AM | Visitor: I wasn't talking specifically about the salt (also that), here I am not seeing evidence of the actual chain 10,000,000th seed being used as first game in the updated chain, or am I missing it? Also, where is the evidence that 2019 to January 2022 results weren't manipulated? Did they play on the seed posted by Mrbit f6c4a94c4a2dd2912fbef23fb68aa56488313a343c9cf6c95e52b8ef74230991?
12:09 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Unfortunately, I can not provide you with more information. The ownership and the whole platform changed this year and we don't have much data available anymore from the old platform.
12:11 AM | Visitor: So it might as well be possible that for 2 and a half years before now, results were actually manipulated, since the seed posted by mrbit is wrong. Actually, that seed is the same as the one used by bc.game. He just copy and pasted their post
12:11 AM | Visitor: So do you confirm you have changed the genesis seed starting this january and 1.6 million roulette rounds have been played until now?
12:13 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: It's very unlikely. Roulette wasn't even much time online on nanogames at this time if I recall it correctly. They removed it after 2-3 months because of low demand and some technical difficulties.
12:16 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: I would have to check that with my team.
12:16 AM | Visitor: Ok, but I'm sure you understand evidence about all of this is needed, otherwise it just looks like the website wants to make everyone forget and shut me up with $250... are you one of the new owners, are you a dev?
12:17 AM | Visitor: It would be good if you checked and could provide me with all the speciifc data and evidence you have at hand, also if possible if you could let me talk to one of your superiors
12:20 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: You can clearly see that there was no salt change since January 2022. With the verification page, you get all the information you need to verify that there was no other change.
12:22 AM | Visitor: Fair, what I'm asking evidence for now is: evidence you kept using the same seed chain from January until now, and evidence that the games from Mrbit's post to Jan 2022 weren't manipulated, meaning what seed chain they used.
12:23 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: You can get your evidence from the verifier page. They match with the results which are on the website.
12:26 AM | Visitor: No doubt, but I'm sure you understand this is not full proof: what I mean is, without an official and public seeding event, it is possible the casino switched genesis seed in between the on-going seed chain (not the salt, the genesis seed)
12:27 AM | Visitor: For example, current round id is now 1,681,194, it could be possible that starting from round 800,000 even if the same salt was used, the seed chain was switched. How to verify this
12:28 AM | Visitor: This is why they post public evidence of the #1 seed, so you can hash current seed n times and verify it matches the posted seed. But it's impossible now
12:32 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Also, here is the proof that MrBit did everything correctly at this time.
His PF event for Roulette is here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105754.msg52193785#msg52193785 Bitcoin Block: 590639 (
https://explorer.btc.com/btc/block/590639 )
Hash: 0000000000000000000ad5e672cfc03debd01b5ededae8c92dd08f044ace2b44 (
https://github.com/NanoGamesio/nanogames-roulette/blob/master/index.html Last changed 2019 )
12:35 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: I'm sorry, that's too technical for me. I will need to contact our developers. Please note that the response can take around 2 weeks.
12:35 AM | Visitor: Right, that's his post I was talking about. The seed f6c4a94c4a2dd2912fbef23fb68aa56488313a343c9cf6c95e52b8ef74230991 is the same as the seed used by bc.game. I'm sure you don't think I'm naive enough to believe you used the same game seeds as bc.game so it was possible to predict results?
12:36 AM | Visitor:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088875.msg51622704#msg5162270412:36 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: We are using the same developer studio as bcgame. That could be the reason why its the accidentally the same.
12:37 AM | Visitor: So you actually had the same seeds as theirs and made people rich? You could just use the bet verifier and change the salt to yours to predict all the results
12:43 AM | Visitor: Please ask developers to contact me with the evidence that this casino hasn't switched genesis seed in between the current seed chain as soon as possible, since they haven't made public their #1 seed, thus violating the provably fair chain principle. There is no way to verify it manually now. I would appreciate it if it took less than 2 weeks, possibly even now. My email is . Please ask your boss or someone technical to talk to me with all the evidence, otherwise this reward only looks like you want to silent me with a small amount. Thank you
12:47 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Im sorry that you feel that but it was definitely not a silent amount, besides that, you were posting it already on forums and telegram... We admit that there is a mistake with the Provably Fair event but you can clearly see that we haven't changed the seed since the update. Even if we would have manipulated the genesis seed you could verify that with the verifier.
12:49 AM | Visitor: No you could not, unless you show me what hash the roulette game ID #1 had
12:54 AM | Visitor: Can you check that?
12:55 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: I will let you know the first game round after the update. Please note it will take some time
12:56 AM | Visitor: Wouldn't that be a completely new seed chain though? Of course you can't publicly update with a seed chain already in progress since January.
12:57 AM | Visitor: Pretty sure if you reset the chain you'll come up with "can't check anymore results of the previous chain"
12:58 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Im not too technical to answer that question exactly. Just +1.5M rounds since January is unlikely. So, I think it also includes the old rounds as well.
12:59 AM | Visitor: Which means the chain got switched in between 2019 and now, without telling the public, since 1.5m rounds is too little to cover 3 years. Which means it's not provably fair
01:01 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: As I said already we admit that we made a mistake to do not a PF event. However, it doesn't mean that we were able to manipulate the games
01:03 AM | Visitor: You could very well do it, in fact, you could even have switched it multiple times, or a single time to a chain with shit results of your liking. There is no way to tell since there is no event. See what I mean? So, you think you can make up with $250 for thousands lost in a corrupted chain?
01:03 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Again, I'm not too much technical with all that I just work for nanogames for few years and I am a gambling enthusiast and its my personal understanding of the situation
01:04 AM | Visitor: I see, I would appreciate it if I could discuss about this with a superior of yours. I'm sure you understood the point I make, without public event there's no way for us to check how many times you switched and if you used a shit chain on purpose. That's what I'm saying
01:05 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: _This message was deleted_
01:06 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Could you please tell me the username of your account? I will forward it to my team
01:08 AM | Visitor: I don't even know anymore, as you can see I am not logged in right now, it was quite some time ago. I don't even have access to the account anymore. That's why I proposed a fixed reward amount in exchange of many things (I am always in time to delete my forum posts/clear the situation to the public, and shill a bit), of course it may seem to high but I'm willing to trade. Surely not 250 though, too low for a not provably fair game which was supposed to be
01:12 AM | Visitor: Not to mention you made lots of people rich by using the same seeds as bc.game, pretty sure many of them were able to predict the results. You could always ask them back the funds they stole and reward me.
01:13 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: I would still appreciate if you can let me know your username. it would help us with the matter. Anyways. I will get back to you as soon as I got some news for you but my experience says it will take around 2 weeks to get an answer
01:13 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Thank you for your patience
01:15 AM | Visitor: I have no way to recover it, sorry. Still, we could trade for some higher amount with your superiors once I get to explain the situation in full to them, and make them realize how damaging this can be to their reputation. Even if they not provide me with the data immediately, if it helps in taking less than 2 weeks, I'm willing to have them contact me back just to talk and explain the situation to them
01:16 AM | Visitor: What do you have to say for example about the seeds being the same as bc.game? This surely made many people rich?
01:16 AM | Dennis from NanoGames: Im not aware that anything like that happened
01:17 AM | Visitor: But if you check the post by bc.game here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088875.msg51622704#msg51622704 you can clearly see it's the same hash.
01:27 AM | Visitor: Sorry to disturb you any further, have you checked? This is enough proof, you should claim back the stolen funds people have surely taken advantage of thanks to the same seeds (pretty sure those were the "technical difficulties" why the chain was changed back then) and reward me instead, I made you discover all of this. Other than this I'll be waiting to be contacted asap, please try to tell them this is high priority. Thank you
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Exported from NanoGames on June 2, 2022 at 01:28 AM Europe/Amsterdam time CEST (GMT+0200)
Yes, I asked for a 500k reward - it's not like I believed I could get it for real lol, but I set my price high because why not? I was willing to trade either way, of course, was fine with getting much less, just didn't expect only 250 (which I correctly received). However, in the end I gave up and was satisfied with just that. Whatever.
Then they banned me from their Telegram group with a "shoo fly" message, probably because of my latest posts on their official thread, I guess.
After I avoided his toxic, troll question, he blocked me because he didn't know how to answer anymore, probably. I didn't want to make a scam accusation against them before hearing what else they had to say, but after this toxic conversation, I've decided to go with it.
What do you think? Am I miscalculating something here or is this really not provably fair at all?
