Too all those saying "China FUD"

[Zapffe]

I have felt the same feeling for several months already :/ Starting with "It doesn't mean anything that pboc stated how they don't want to see any business activity with bitcoin in China". Or "It will certainly be OK because Bobby Lee has a strong feeling that it will be OK".
Usually, I consider myself as a friend to bitcoin. With mostly defending bitcoin from mindless fear and hate. But in the context of this forum, I'm considered to be "the enemy of bitcoin" just because I think that it's not right to worship bitcoin and to try to make it seem like something that it clearly isn't.

In my idea, the cultists are the reason on why there is this ugly slow downwards market. Without the cultists, we could of went down quickly, experienced some stability at the bottom for some time and then started to go up again. That would have been an healthy environment where one would feel comfortable investing.

[Searing]

posted just now more or less

seems it is NOT FUD

this is not good

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/28/bitcoin_china_pboc_ban/

[T.Stuart]

In my idea, the cultists are the reason on why there is this ugly slow downwards market. Without the cultists, we could of went down quickly, experienced some stability at the bottom for some time and then started to go up again. That would have been an healthy environment where one would feel comfortable investing.

Cultists are part of the healthy environment in all investments.

[Zapffe]

In my idea, the cultists are the reason on why there is this ugly slow downwards market. Without the cultists, we could of went down quickly, experienced some stability at the bottom for some time and then started to go up again. That would have been an healthy environment where one would feel comfortable investing.

Cultists are part of the healthy environment in all investments.

When that part gets too big, then the environment won't be healthy anymore.

[cbeast]

Huobi still has 5x more volume than Bitstamp.

[Colonel32]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-27/pboc-orders-banks-to-shut-bitcoin-exchange-accounts-caixin-says.html

As usual - Rumour spread by 'Interested' parties who want your Btc for nothing !

[billyjoeallen]

FUD def: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. that's exactly what's coming out of China. I don't have to justify that. The burden of proof is on those reporting this ban, because there has been no confirmation from the PBOC. Until there's PBOC confirmation or denial, it is by definition FUD.

[MatTheCat]

FUD def: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. that's exactly what's coming out of China. I don't have to justify that. The burden of proof is on those reporting this ban, because there has been no confirmation from the PBOC. Until there's PBOC confirmation or denial, it is by definition FUD.

Hey Billy.

On the plus side, we have those sub $550 coins that you reckoned you would give your two front teeth to get at again. You know, those sub $550 coins that we were never going to see, because of what all the whales would do as soon at Bitcoin hit this price point. Are you buying as much as you can right now with all your worthless fiat and maxed out credit cards?

What about the forum member who you 'dared' to sell at $580? Do you still 'dare' him to sell at $511 and risk missing out on the ride 2 da moon?

Tell us oh sage one, how should we align our Bitcoin investments from here?

P.S. Is it not the case that you are only 'successful' because you got in nice and early, but had you been trading since Dec 2013, that you would be 90% down on your capital, which of course means that actually, you really don't have a fkn clue?

P.P.S. What if the PBOC don't blatantly advertise when they directly prohibit certain financial activities? What if it is more a Chinese way of doing things that the authorities simply pronounce their 'dim view' on Bitcoin and expect their citizens to fall into line out of sheer willingness to comply with the wishes of the state. What if they deal with the remaining non-compliants by simply shutting them out the system, yet acting as though nothing is wrong and nothing is banned? If that were the case, would it then be reasonable to assume that the exchanges may have their bank accounts frozen/terminated without so much as a single round of fanfare?

[knightcoin]

Every time I see FUD, the very first question that came to my mind is:

How much that bear bought it ?  
How much that bear expect to profit until buy again ?



"every bear is bull embryo mutation"

[MatTheCat]

Every time I see FUD, the very first question that came to my mind is:

How much that bear bought it ?  
How much that bear expect to profit until buy again ?

"every bear is bull embryo mutation"

I first came running to Bitcoin as a speculator in Nov 2013, bullish as hell. I was bullish on Bitcoin when I first went to open my Bitstamp account in Nov 2013 with Bitcoin already at a whopping $300. I was still waiting on Bitstamp to verify my account when Bitcoin crashed from $760 to $380 and turned bearish right on the eve of the crash (check my post history), but when Bitcoin recovered almost 100% within a few days, I turned bull again, as my Bitstamp account finally got set up and I bought my first speculative Bitcoins at low $700 range. I remained bullish until after the $1160 double top, at which point I turned bearish. Since then, I have been mostly bearish with the odd bit of flip flopping onto the bull's wagon.

Do you see a pattern emerging here that has absolutely nothing to do with a bear simply being a 'repressed closet bull' and everything to do with the bear simply wanting to avoid getting burned by sitting on the wrong side of the trade?

[knightcoin]

Every time I see FUD, the very first question that came to my mind is:

How much that bear bought it ?  
How much that bear expect to profit until buy again ?

"every bear is bull embryo mutation"

I first came running to Bitcoin as a speculator in Nov 2013, bullish as hell. I was bullish on Bitcoin when I first went to open my Bitstamp account in Nov 2013 with Bitcoin already at a whopping $300. I was still waiting on Bitstamp to verify my account when Bitcoin crashed from $760 to $380 and turned bearish right on the eve of the crash (check my post history), but when Bitcoin recovered almost 100% within a few days, I turned bull again, as my Bitstamp account finally got set up and I bought my first speculative Bitcoins at low $700 range. I remained bullish until after the $1160 double top, at which point I turned bearish. Since then, I have been mostly bearish with the odd bit of flip flopping onto the bull's wagon.

Do you see a pattern emerging here that has absolutely nothing to do with a bear simply being a 'repressed closet bull' and everything to do with the bear simply wanting to avoid getting burned by sitting on the wrong side of the trade?

Thanks for share your history, I always apreciate yours post.. You right, you should follow the trend, the wisdom of the crowd, etc.. for me its' all about timeframe, since I got into cryptoeconomy as a miner I see things in long terms, and it's also a bit like my own personality ..I have a tendency to think about 5-10 years ahead ... I more inclined to be hedge fund manager than day trader ... unfurtunaly I not that stake high, but yes I preffer check stuff like 4 times a year, than check every single day the charts ... Well, as a miner my hardware is paid itself alread, already makes profit to me .. now I just checking the eletricity ... so pretty much... all that swing does not afect me anymore..

This year things seens to be more controleded by exchanges ...while in 2013 was by hardware mining industry ... I think next year will be more software people developing new products based in bitcoin technology ... I will keep my eyes on ... social media (doge) anonymity (anon/zero) frameworks ( ethereum ) etc ...

[SmokedMolex]

A lot of good points are being made here.  But there are some of you that fail to recognize the "China" economic policies that are currently in place.

A good amount of you seem to forget that China is still a communist country.  Why we have open trade with them and not other communist countries is still a mystery to me but that's besides the point.

Let's step back from the screens for a moment and look at the overall picture of China's economics.

1) Only allow export of manufactured goods.

2) Hoarde world's raw materials including precious metals.

3) Sell back low quality good to people with lots of fiat.

4) Do not permit citizens to move country's currency into other forms to avoid dilution of the state.

5) Prohibit transactions which devalue the currency of the state.

You can call it FUD or whatever you want.  The truth is, China has a history of not wanting to let their money leave their country and will go to great measures to protect the state even if it means banning something without any further explanation.

Just google China ghost towns to see what the Chinese have been doing with the funds that are not allowed to leave the country.

China is roughly 60% of the bitcoin market.  If that goes away expect the price to fall dramatically to correct levels out of bubble territory. 

Trade accordingly and quit crying because you missed the triple tops.

[windjc]

A lot of good points are being made here.  But there are some of you that fail to recognize the "China" economic policies that are currently in place.

A good amount of you seem to forget that China is still a communist country.  Why we have open trade with them and not other communist countries is still a mystery to me but that's besides the point.

Let's step back from the screens for a moment and look at the overall picture of China's economics.

1) Only allow export of manufactured goods.

2) Hoarde world's raw materials including precious metals.

3) Sell back low quality good to people with lots of fiat.

4) Do not permit citizens to move country's currency into other forms to avoid dilution of the state.

5) Prohibit transactions which devalue the currency of the state.

You can call it FUD or whatever you want.  The truth is, China has a history of not wanting to let their money leave their country and will go to great measures to protect the state even if it means banning something without any further explanation.

Just google China ghost towns to see what the Chinese have been doing with the funds that are not allowed to leave the country.

China is roughly 60% of the bitcoin market.  If that goes away expect the price to fall dramatically to correct levels out of bubble territory. 

Trade accordingly and quit crying because you missed the triple tops.

All this is true except for the 60% part. That is not even close to correct. I contend that Chinese is probably 10-15% of the market, that their no trade fees lead to ridiculous high coin circulation AND that most of the traders on China exchanges are not Chinese.

[knightcoin]

by China you mean, the government-parasite-bureaucrats ...

[MatTheCat]

Yeah, never really thought I'd join that illustrious "perma bear" crowd, you know the one I mean, Blitz, ElectricMucus etc. But the reactions of the Bitcoin cultists are just too frustrating to stomach sometimes: on the faintest sign of good news anyone who cautiously asks for a source or verification is shouted down, while on the emergence of rather well-established bad news (like China right now), a majority is calling it FUD and feels bears are only trying to piss into their cryptocheerios. I remain as optimistic about the long term prospects of Bitcoin (or at least: of cryptocurrency as a whole) as I was, but that delusional subset of the investor crowd in here is getting on my nerves. Majorly.

But don't make the same mistake that I have made in the past in turning 'anti-Bitcoin' due to associating it with the fkn numbskull spastics on this forum that fill the pages up with endless reams of brain dead tunnel visioned delusional shit.

I noticed you get in an argument with billyjoeallen, who I count amongst the very worst of Bitcoin Nutters around. He is dangerous because unlike say JimboTornonto, pbody or any of the other truly idiotic and totally mindless Bitcoin Nutters, he does put forward rational arguments, he likes to remind everyone of the great wealth that investing in Bitcoin has brought him, yet practically everytime Bitcoin does anything except go up, his market acumen has been proven to be horrendous and I am in no doubt that he has influenced dozens of noobs into jumping into Bitcoin at the worst of times and ending up seriously underwater. Of course, in his own words, there is more to investing in Bitcoin than chasing mere profit. There are higher values and goals at play here, right? He extols the virtues of being a 'Bitcoin cultist' ensuring that it has inherent value no matter what happens. But then I am sure most of us wouldn't mind holding the odd few hundred Bitcoin simply to 'support the cause', especially if we only paid single digits for them in the first place and have cashed out a small fortune on top of those, but as far as late investors are concerned, who really fancies emptying lots of their savings into some shark market players pockets purely to 'support the cause'? Especially so now that the true nature of Bitcoin is increasingly being spelled out to those of us with an ability to read between the lines as something considerably more nefarious and indeed sinister than the 'libertarian magic internet money of freedom' which Bitcoin was embraced as back in 2011/2012.

[Bit_Happy]

Talking about the China situation is FUD (no matter what actually happens in China), since the market has already reacted it is time to move on.

Seriously, the current source is shady/weak, but the story is getting old (like Gox is old news but not fully resolved)
Bitcoin is getting big enough to move beyond this "crap", so even this current effort is a form of "just more FUD", (even though you probably didn't have that intention)


Q) What if the Chinese dump huge amounts?
A) People in Denmark can buy and legally pay no taxes on the profits.

Bottom line:
There is way too much good news to be focused on bad.
If you are repeatedly focusing on the same bad news, it is FUD by definition.

[slapper]

Yeah, never really thought I'd join that illustrious "perma bear" crowd, you know the one I mean, Blitz, ElectricMucus etc. But the reactions of the Bitcoin cultists are just too frustrating to stomach sometimes: on the faintest sign of good news anyone who cautiously asks for a source or verification is shouted down, while on the emergence of rather well-established bad news (like China right now), a majority is calling it FUD and feels bears are only trying to piss into their cryptocheerios. I remain as optimistic about the long term prospects of Bitcoin (or at least: of cryptocurrency as a whole) as I was, but that delusional subset of the investor crowd in here is getting on my nerves. Majorly.

But don't make the same mistake that I have made in the past in turning 'anti-Bitcoin' due to associating it with the fkn numbskull spastics on this forum that fill the pages up with endless reams of brain dead tunnel visioned delusional shit.

I noticed you get in an argument with billyjoeallen, who I count amongst the very worst of Bitcoin Nutters around. He is dangerous because unlike say JimboTornonto, pbody or any of the other truly idiotic and totally mindless Bitcoin Nutters, he does put forward rational arguments, he likes to remind everyone of the great wealth that investing in Bitcoin has brought him, yet practically everytime Bitcoin does anything except go up, his market acumen has been proven to be horrendous and I am in no doubt that he has influenced dozens of noobs into jumping into Bitcoin at the worst of times and ending up seriously underwater. Of course, in his own words, there is more to investing in Bitcoin than chasing mere profit. There are higher values and goals at play here, right? He extols the virtues of being a 'Bitcoin cultist' ensuring that it has inherent value no matter what happens. But then I am sure most of us wouldn't mind holding the odd few hundred Bitcoin simply to 'support the cause', especially if we only paid single digits for them in the first place and have cashed out a small fortune on top of those, but as far as late investors are concerned, who really fancies emptying lots of their savings into some shark market players pockets purely to 'support the cause'? Especially so now that the true nature of Bitcoin is increasingly being spelled out to those of us with an ability to read between the lines as something considerably more nefarious and indeed sinister than the 'libertarian magic internet money of freedom' which Bitcoin was embraced as back in 2011/2012.

Brilliant post. I posted something similar in Altcoin section https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=546338.msg5961660#msg5961660

Bitcoin is getting ridiculous. The mining companies will manipulate a bit more in the coming days though and offer the artificial support, but this scheme is getting exposed more and more by the day. The Chinese news is just a catalyst.

[cbutters]

BTC China says today that Mainland Chinese CAN Fund AND Withdraw via banks... (News as of March 28,2014)
https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140328

What do you make of that? Its the latest information to come out of china.

[billyjoeallen]

So I'm the worst because I put forth rational arguments? That makes sense.

[inca]

So I'm the worst because I put forth rational arguments? That makes sense.

People like Matthecat don't understand that the majority of silent holders of bitcoin are speculating on future price rises over a period of years and not days. Trading is different from speculation. I don't have to trade bitcoin because for me it is a long term punt in a much larger portfolio. And I will continue to add to it at these prices until I am comfortable with my allocation.

The sky is falling and bears are screaming sell (and they are so emotive). But despite your 'crypto currency fatigue' Mat, the underlying idea of what bitcoin represents as a technology remains sound. Adoption is widening, transactions are rising. We can tell it is slowly entering the public imagination because the central banks around the world are beginning to murmur and resist.

When the market turns every bear on this forum will belatedly help to propel the price to new highs. If you didn't believe in the idea then one has to ask why you continue to post here.