LMAO: India resells Russian oil to the European Union.

[amishmanish]

West had been the powerhouse of world. However in 21st century new world order is emerging. Sanctions are no longer way to stop a countries growth and most of the sanctioned countries are finding alternative ways to bypass these sanctions in a multipolar world.
And all the countries are looking for their own interests and infact European countries need oil and a need is a need. So they have to be fulfilled.

[DrBeer]

West had been the powerhouse of world. However in 21st century new world order is emerging. Sanctions are no longer way to stop a countries growth and most of the sanctioned countries are finding alternative ways to bypass these sanctions in a multipolar world.
And all the countries are looking for their own interests and infact European countries need oil and a need is a need. So they have to be fulfilled.

Most likely, this will lead to a "restructuring of the world", as a result, the world will be transformed into several (3-5) large unions "according to interests."
Most likely it will be:
- in some form, the rest of the EU. I am sure that soon enough the internal confrontation between "pro-Putin Europe" and normal Europe will lead to a split.
- Union "Saxon" - Britain, USA, Australia, New Zealand.
- Union of the "offended" - Russia, North Korea and the like
- Eastern Union - China, India, Indonesia and some other regional players.
- Perhaps the creation of a new military political economic union, after the defeat of the leader of the "offended". It can be an alliance from Britain, Poland, the Baltic countries, Ukraine.
Well, the rest will either adjoin these main unions, or they will try to adapt to become a "satellite" of other unions, or they will create a "world social union" where, if only everyone were together, but every man for himself.

[coupable]

Really funny thing, instead of getting rid of Russian gas they are buying at a higher price but under a different name "Indian Gas"!!! This is really ridiculous. They want to get rid of Russia's control, but they are drowning in the Russian quagmire more and more. Unless Europe can find an alternative and cheap source of energy instead of Russian gas, they will never be able to get rid of Russia's grip. In fact, they are looking for other alternatives such as clean energy but they have not yet been able to find a cheap alternative and may not be able to do so in the near future.

The search for alternatives in renewable energies was never one of the priorities of the European economy, which is based on the depletion of the earth’s resources like other economies, and thus it did not take into account the lean days that would fall upon it with the expansion of Russia’s colonial intentions and forgetting that Russia was never be a supporter to it.
This situation will continue and there will be parties who take advantage of the situation as India does in the example presented by this topic, and we may see counterparts in other areas of the economy that are covered by Western sanctions on the Russian economy.

[Sithara007]

For the last few days, there is a lot of hype in Indian media regarding the failure of state oil corporations to secure crude oil supplies from Russia. Only the IOC has been able to sign a deal with Russian companies, and that too for just 6 million barrels per month. Russia is saying that they simply don't have any more crude to sell, because all of their oil is already earmarked for purchase by European companies under long term deals. Even for this month (June), the largest importers of Russian crude includes European countries such as Italy and Netherlands. They are blaming India, just to hide their own purchases from Russia.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

For the last few days, there is a lot of hype in Indian media regarding the failure of state oil corporations to secure crude oil supplies from Russia. Only the IOC has been able to sign a deal with Russian companies, and that too for just 6 million barrels per month. Russia is saying that they simply don't have any more crude to sell, because all of their oil is already earmarked for purchase by European companies under long term deals. Even for this month (June), the largest importers of Russian crude includes European countries such as Italy and Netherlands. They are blaming India, just to hide their own purchases from Russia.

Really? Any source for that? Not that I question what you say, which I guess you must have seen in the Indian news or something, but I like to see arguments backed up by a source. I imagine that it will be news from India that little or no Western media report.

As I said earlier, it seems to me that there is a lot of window-dressing going on here, and when the war is over, it seems to me that the oil trade between Russia and the EU will flow, even if the EU continues to slowly shift towards green energy.

[coolcoinz]

Countries are corrupt as hell. When EU voted for sanctions against Russia, France continued to buy from Russia and sell them military equipment.
There's a list of countries that finance Russian attack on Ukraine by trading with them and the founding members of the EU are at its top.

It's like the world is preying on this war fueling both sides. Ukraine gets weapons and Russia gets money and they both keep getting weaker while the vultures wait to pick their bones when it all ends.

[Pomogator]

The same thing happens in the Baltic Sea. A Russian tanker sails up and pours its contents into a huge other tanker, where the oil is mixed and it turns out that this is no longer Russian oil, very convenient. It's called the Latvian Blend. There will always be ways around, Europe will not be able not to buy Russian oil.

[DrBeer]

It's unfortunate that India didn't join the common action against Russia. It was obvious from the start that they wouldn't, but it's still sad. Yes, India has a lot of profit to make here, but profit on war, on blood, on what several countries and many scholars call a genocide? Is it really alright to make profit when such terrible things are done by Russia with the money it gets from selling oil?
And the EU, well, I'm not surprised that everyone is pretending that it's not Russian oil while knowing it probably is.

On multiple occasions I have asked you guys to stop blaming my country. Our position is clear. We don't support sanctions and embargoes that are imposed purely to satisfy the ego of western nations. Crude oil prices have risen by 200% during the last two years and the EU is using this as a tool for regime change. Already governments have fallen in countries such as Pakistan. If the EU want us to stop purchasing crude from Russia, then they should ask the OPEC to increase the output by 10 million barrels per day (that is the daily output from Russia).

Once again, let me make it very clear. India is not ready to foot the bill for EU's war against Russia.

Hmm ... EU war against Russia. Well, OK. Just answer honestly to this question. Suppose that it happened that India was attacked, Well, let some country XX. This country is destroying your citizens in the most sadistic way, destroying your cities. Missiles periodically arrive in Delhi, which hit residential buildings, architectural monuments, kill people .... Moreover, the country of the XX is much stronger than India, and is armed with such weapons that India cannot respond symmetrically. India is suffering huge losses, the country has lost 50% of the economy, tens of millions of lives, almost 20% of your country has been destroyed, part of it has been annexed and the XX flag is already being flown there. But for example, XX, its defense industry and army, is completely dependent on the sale of, for example, XX timber to the world market. And most of the income goes precisely to the maintenance of the shock group that kills your relatives and friends, on your own land. And you will not get out of this situation on your own, but you are guaranteed to lose. And you ask for help, and you logically ask not to finance the aggressor. The question is if all countries say: "Well, we are against not buying wood from XX. We will lose matches, toothpicks, why should we suffer so much without them? We do not support the Greenpeace war against XX." You will support such an answer, and consider it fair? Only from the heart and honestly? No need to talk about the EU. Just answer this fairly simple question?

PS. Everything in this life sooner or later, but it comes back to us like a boomerang. And good deeds, and bad, any ... Even passing by the needy, ignoring his request for help, having the opportunity to help, someday, and we will not receive critically important help for us ....

[Sithara007]

^^^^ You are diverting the topic. I don't think that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is morally correct. That said, in India we are suffering from low wages and hyperinflation as a result of economic policy changes in the US and the EU. Stupid policies from the Biden administration resulted in crude oil prices going from $40 per barrel to $125 per barrel. Along with the war being waged between Russia and Ukraine, a proxy war is being waged by the NATO bloc against oil consuming third world countries such as India and China.

And they are doing it deliberately, in order to trigger a regime change in countries such as India (already they were successful in Pakistan and Sri Lanka). The US government can easily bring down oil prices, and all they need to do is to ask the OPEC and shale oil producers to increase the output. They are not doing it, because they want countries such as India to suffer from increasing trade deficit. At this point, what do you want us to do? If you think that we will speed up the destruction of our own economies by agreeing to the sanctions, then you are mistaken.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Hey man! I understand you are from Ukraine or have relatives there? I understand Sithara007's position, what I don't understand is that of the European Union with a disastrous energy policy, which was already a disaster when it depended mainly on cheap Russian gas, and now it's even worse as it leads to botches like the one described in this thread?

You criticise India for buying Russian fossil fuels and you don't criticise the EU for buying them from India once refined?

[Sithara007]

Hey man! I understand you are from Ukraine or have relatives there? I understand Sithara007's position, what I don't understand is that of the European Union with a disastrous energy policy, which was already a disaster when it depended mainly on cheap Russian gas, and now it's even worse as it leads to botches like the one described in this thread?

You criticise India for buying Russian fossil fuels and you don't criticise the EU for buying them from India once refined?

His position is understandable, as he resides in Ukraine. What I don't understand is his persistence in blaming India, when it is the US and EU who are responsible for Russia receiving $100 billion in hydrocarbon revenues during the first 100 days of war. Russia is profiting out of exports, not because India is importing their oil and gas. Russia is profiting because the prices went up. And the policies in US and EU are directly responsible for this increase. Now my Ukrainian friend doesn't have the courage to criticize EU or the US and for him India is a convenient punching bag.

[DrBeer]

Hey man! I understand you are from Ukraine or have relatives there? I understand Sithara007's position, what I don't understand is that of the European Union with a disastrous energy policy, which was already a disaster when it depended mainly on cheap Russian gas, and now it's even worse as it leads to botches like the one described in this thread?

You criticise India for buying Russian fossil fuels and you don't criticise the EU for buying them from India once refined?

YES, I am a citizen of Ukraine and almost all my relatives live here. I understand that you have not fully understood the causality of the EU problem with gas. The reason is that they themselves, mainly, or primarily, by the hands of the German leadership (since the time of Gerhard Schroeder), built a corruption-gas scheme, which resulted in the fact that Germany (the entire population, industry) became dependent on dew, its antics, and willingness or unwillingness to apply gas. And for every crime or idiotic act - you always have to PAY. Sooner or later. And sometimes even a lot of innocent people can suffer, as it is now in Germany and other countries that have become hostages of Russian terrorism against Ukraine. Yes, the world is so globalized that one idiot can create problems for half the world! Just deal with it Smiley

 PS I don't blame India for anything. I can only express my personal opinion about the moral side of this or that act, to which I have every right. Like India, make decisions and explain your attitude to the problem. I just said that such a position could someday play a cruel joke on India. A passive or neutral position is, for example, when a bully beats a girl, and you are a healthy man, walk by and say - that's their business, I'm not alone, and give the bully a stone in his hand, because it turns out that the bully is your business partner. It's just that India is setting a very bad precedent. And when trouble happens to India, everyone will say - yes, this is a completely different problem, and why we will strain and suffer because of India or its problems. Although I sincerely wish that everything is fine in India and that there are no misfortunes, since I have a different attitude to other people's problems and tragedies ...

[laredo7mm]

Hey man! I understand you are from Ukraine or have relatives there? I understand Sithara007's position, what I don't understand is that of the European Union with a disastrous energy policy, which was already a disaster when it depended mainly on cheap Russian gas, and now it's even worse as it leads to botches like the one described in this thread?

You criticise India for buying Russian fossil fuels and you don't criticise the EU for buying them from India once refined?

His position is understandable, as he resides in Ukraine. What I don't understand is his persistence in blaming India, when it is the US and EU who are responsible for Russia receiving $100 billion in hydrocarbon revenues during the first 100 days of war. Russia is profiting out of exports, not because India is importing their oil and gas. Russia is profiting because the prices went up. And the policies in US and EU are directly responsible for this increase. Now my Ukrainian friend doesn't have the courage to criticize EU or the US and for him India is a convenient punching bag.

I do not mind for a different opinion but criticizing other countries will not solve anyone's problem here. I do understand one thing very clearly and that is everybody wants to defend his own interest. USA and UK want to use Ukraine as a goat to weaken Russia, Russia wants to occupy Ukraine to defend his fuel business with the EU, EU doesn't want this war because they want Russian cheap fuel, India wants to buy oil from Russia and resell it to make profits, Ukraine wants to use the USA to free their land. Everybody has a different goal here so there will be a clash in action and it's normal.

[virasisog]

Hey man! I understand you are from Ukraine or have relatives there? I understand Sithara007's position, what I don't understand is that of the European Union with a disastrous energy policy, which was already a disaster when it depended mainly on cheap Russian gas, and now it's even worse as it leads to botches like the one described in this thread?

You criticise India for buying Russian fossil fuels and you don't criticise the EU for buying them from India once refined?

His position is understandable, as he resides in Ukraine. What I don't understand is his persistence in blaming India, when it is the US and EU who are responsible for Russia receiving $100 billion in hydrocarbon revenues during the first 100 days of war. Russia is profiting out of exports, not because India is importing their oil and gas. Russia is profiting because the prices went up. And the policies in US and EU are directly responsible for this increase. Now my Ukrainian friend doesn't have the courage to criticize EU or the US and for him, India is a convenient punching bag.

I do not mind for a different opinion but criticizing other countries will not solve anyone's problem here. I do understand one thing very clearly and that is everybody wants to defend his interest. USA and UK want to use Ukraine as a goat to weaken Russia, Russia wants to occupy Ukraine to defend his fuel business with the EU, EU doesn't want this war because they want Russian cheap fuel, India wants to buy oil from Russia and resell it to make profits, Ukraine wants to use the USA to free their land. Everybody has a different goal here so there will be a clash in action and it's normal.

Each country's goal is to gain profit and they could also take advantage of the situation if necessary. No country is a hero because they all have to defend their economies to resist all the global crisis that is happening. We can't blame India for what they're doing because that's how they save and grow their economy. We all have an economic strategy and our governments will do everything to save it.

[teosanru]

I first saw this in a Spanish forum, but I see that a national newspaper in Spain has brought it out.

https://www.elmundo.es/economia/macroeconomia/2022/06/04/629a1c44e4d4d8fb2a8b460d.html

In English:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-india-is-set-to-win-big-as-eu-bans-russian-oil-imports-11654021874

India is receiving 600,000 barrels per day from Russia compared to 90,000 barrels per day last year, which buys at below market price, refines and sells at a higher price to Europe. What a masterstroke by the European Union, LMAO.

Nobody thought of this? Last Friday the EU adopted sanctions banning oil imports from Russia.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3511129-eu-officially-adopts-russian-oil-embargo/

Once this has come to light, what are they going to do? Not buy from India? It reminds me of exchanges or other entities that don't want tainted coins.

I put this comment here because I think it is the key to the issue:

Once the oil is refined in to diesel, it will be impossible to know about it's origin. And here, the situation is further complicated by the fact that the two oil companies who have purchased huge amounts of oil recently (Nayara Energy and Reliance Industries) also import a lot of oil from Iraq and Saudi Arabia. So they can always claim that the diesel they sell to the EU is sourced from Iraqi crude. After all, it is same substance with the same chemical composition coming from different oil wells. There is no 100% accurate method to find out how many molecules came from Russia, and how many came from Iraq.

So India claims that what it sells to the EU does not come from Russia, the EU claims that what it buys does not come from Russia, when most likely at least some of what it buys from India comes from Russia, and more expensively. LMAO.

India has minimal oil reserves of it's own, it's either dependent upon the gulf to buy oil or on Russia to buy oil for its own consumption only, if it is selling the oil it has for it's own consumption to EU then obviously this is either Gulf's oil or Russia's oil. So there is a very good chance that The oil we are sending to EU is from Russia Only. This shows how sanctions are just scam and you actually are in dire need of Few resources.

[Sithara007]

India has minimal oil reserves of it's own, it's either dependent upon the gulf to buy oil or on Russia to buy oil for its own consumption only, if it is selling the oil it has for it's own consumption to EU then obviously this is either Gulf's oil or Russia's oil. So there is a very good chance that The oil we are sending to EU is from Russia Only. This shows how sanctions are just scam and you actually are in dire need of Few resources.

Exactly. All the focus has been on India, who are being accused of re-exporting Russian oil. But hardly anyone asks why the Europeans are ready to import refined products sourced from this oil. And there doesn't exist sufficient proof to claim that India is re-exporting large quantities of Russian product. India imports around 5 million barrels of crude oil per day and Russia provides 20% of that volume. The remainder comes from other countries such as Iraq and Saudi Arabia. The diesel and naphtha that India exports to the EU maybe sourced from the Iraqi or Saudi oil.

[be.open]

PS I don't blame India for anything. I can only express my personal opinion about the moral side of this or that act, to which I have every right. Like India, make decisions and explain your attitude to the problem. I just said that such a position could someday play a cruel joke on India. A passive or neutral position is, for example, when a bully beats a girl, and you are a healthy man, walk by and say - that's their business, I'm not alone, and give the bully a stone in his hand, because it turns out that the bully is your business partner. It's just that India is setting a very bad precedent. And when trouble happens to India, everyone will say - yes, this is a completely different problem, and why we will strain and suffer because of India or its problems. Although I sincerely wish that everything is fine in India and that there are no misfortunes, since I have a different attitude to other people's problems and tragedies ...

Let me remind you that Ukraine from the beginning of the operation and still carries out the transit of Russian gas through its territory to Europe and receives money from Gazprom for this. Don't you think it's too hypocritical to blame others for what you do yourself?

[laredo7mm]

PS I don't blame India for anything. I can only express my personal opinion about the moral side of this or that act, to which I have every right. Like India, make decisions and explain your attitude to the problem. I just said that such a position could someday play a cruel joke on India. A passive or neutral position is, for example, when a bully beats a girl, and you are a healthy man, walk by and say - that's their business, I'm not alone, and give the bully a stone in his hand, because it turns out that the bully is your business partner. It's just that India is setting a very bad precedent. And when trouble happens to India, everyone will say - yes, this is a completely different problem, and why we will strain and suffer because of India or its problems. Although I sincerely wish that everything is fine in India and that there are no misfortunes, since I have a different attitude to other people's problems and tragedies ...

Let me remind you that Ukraine from the beginning of the operation and still carries out the transit of Russian gas through its territory to Europe and receives money from Gazprom for this. Don't you think it's too hypocritical to blame others for what you do yourself?

Same thing we saw in the USA at the beginning of the conflict. When the USA was asking EU countries to put sanctions on Russia and stop all the exports from them they themself increase oil export from Russia because Russia was selling it at a discount rate. Germany providing Ukraine with weapons at the same time doesn't want to put sanctions on importing Russian oil. Weast means hypocritical and propaganda machine.

[Naficopa]

PS I don't blame India for anything. I can only express my personal opinion about the moral side of this or that act, to which I have every right. Like India, make decisions and explain your attitude to the problem. I just said that such a position could someday play a cruel joke on India. A passive or neutral position is, for example, when a bully beats a girl, and you are a healthy man, walk by and say - that's their business, I'm not alone, and give the bully a stone in his hand, because it turns out that the bully is your business partner. It's just that India is setting a very bad precedent. And when trouble happens to India, everyone will say - yes, this is a completely different problem, and why we will strain and suffer because of India or its problems. Although I sincerely wish that everything is fine in India and that there are no misfortunes, since I have a different attitude to other people's problems and tragedies ...

Let me remind you that Ukraine from the beginning of the operation and still carries out the transit of Russian gas through its territory to Europe and receives money from Gazprom for this. Don't you think it's too hypocritical to blame others for what you do yourself?

Same thing we saw in the USA at the beginning of the conflict. When the USA was asking EU countries to put sanctions on Russia and stop all the exports from them they themself increase oil export from Russia because Russia was selling it at a discount rate. Germany providing Ukraine with weapons at the same time doesn't want to put sanctions on importing Russian oil. Weast means hypocritical and propaganda machine.

India is playing smart game. They are having term with USA and on the other hand they are having fine terms with the Russia as well. Getting the oil and gas from them and benefiting their people. However US didnot let Pakistan purchase oil from Russia. Very strange.

[teosanru]

India has minimal oil reserves of it's own, it's either dependent upon the gulf to buy oil or on Russia to buy oil for its own consumption only, if it is selling the oil it has for it's own consumption to EU then obviously this is either Gulf's oil or Russia's oil. So there is a very good chance that The oil we are sending to EU is from Russia Only. This shows how sanctions are just scam and you actually are in dire need of Few resources.

Exactly. All the focus has been on India, who are being accused of re-exporting Russian oil. But hardly anyone asks why the Europeans are ready to import refined products sourced from this oil. And there doesn't exist sufficient proof to claim that India is re-exporting large quantities of Russian product. India imports around 5 million barrels of crude oil per day and Russia provides 20% of that volume. The remainder comes from other countries such as Iraq and Saudi Arabia. The diesel and naphtha that India exports to the EU maybe sourced from the Iraqi or Saudi oil.

I always feel blaming counties for which side they are taking in a war is really stupid. In a war situation both the countries generally are equal culprits and it's not the US has never attacked any country on the name of their self defense. So why should the world boycott Russia when they are doing the same? Blaming India just to think about their own profit is really stupid. I would be pretty happy with the India government if they are actually doing this buying oil from Russia and reexporting it back.