Stake.com scams on Mines auto bet!

[Quel]

Hello fellow gamblers,
My first post here hoping that i can contribute to the general discussion of the betting scams.
I was playing autobet with the following configuration: 3 mines 5 squares initial value 0.2$, reset on win, 125% increase on lose.
Eeverything thing was going fine i got like 6000 bets on that day.
But then when a big win came i got 3 sequential bets on the same stake size and exactly when i should win a significant amount i actually lost.
Litecoin has dropped since but on the day i was betting those were the numbers:
54$ Lose, 121$ Lose, 273$ Win - 98$ Profit
Instead i got 121$ Lose, 121$ Win, 121$ Lose = -121$ Profit
So when i should get a good hit with the autobet, i received wrong bets to me this is a clear indication of a scam because they can forward calculate when my winning step is coming.

https://ibb.co/yFSSzPH
https://ibb.co/r24q2g0
https://ibb.co/DpCF5gz
https://ibb.co/jGTrg22
https://ibb.co/nbJ6Crq
https://ibb.co/7pBnzZ0
https://ibb.co/LrvPzLB
https://ibb.co/NsgmVYY
Support conversation was useless, first a person said he would pass to a developer to investigate. Then another support person joined to tell me everything is right. I told them to look into their database because they
already have the problem. They assured all is fine and told me to write to their support mail.
Funny enough, they wanted me to provide a video as the proof of the problem, suggesting that i lose more money on that scam to prove its a scam.  ( Instead of looking into the database or the json logs)

Also i've download the json formatted bets which look like this:
https://pastebin.com/Y3KEih0M

This wasn't too big money but is irritating how they are talking about fairness and crypto backed algorithm and on the same time their algorithm is rigged as fuck.
I am considering passing the case to the local gambling authorities for revoking stake license in my country. What do you think?

[1714807826]

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[1714807826]

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[1714807826]

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[edgycorner]

Another day, another scam accusation on Stake.

I went through OP's post and paid careful attention to the provided evidence.

Here's my gist of it in simple words:

OP was using Stake's auto-bet feature on a game. On each loss, the auto-BOT was supposed to increase the stake by 125%, and on a win, the bet was supposed to reset back to 0.2$.

OP hit a winner at Bet ID: 88223016359; nonce*: 6125; Bet Time: 1652007307807 unix epoch time; amount : 1.3911899 LTC ~ $121 USD


Now the next bet was supposed to reset since it's a winner. But it didn't and they lost $131 USD on a loser(Which was supposed to be 0.2$)

Bet in question:  Bet ID: 88223018458; nonce*: 6126; Bet Time: 1652007309165 unix epoch time; amount : 1.3911899 LTC ~ $121 USD


So why isn't Stake helping OP?
Because Stake can easily say that OP stopped the bot, and changed the setting  

Can we prove them wrong?
Yes.

OP, please upload the rest of json file.
All bets have an individual epoch time. We can easily find average time taken by Auto-BOT to place the next bet and its variance from mean value.

If it's the same, as the time between  88223016359 and 88223018458 then this will prove that 88222991943 was indeed placed by the bot. Because it would be humanly impossible to stop the bot and place the next nonce bet within the exact time frame which is followed by auto-bot(that too on a mobile)

For now, this seems to be the only solution to provide irrefutable evidence.
I will help you out   Since everybody else here considers "newbies" inherently cheaters and Stake can never be in the wrong  .



*Nonce is like a user's personal bet counter.

Edit: updated my reply with correct Bet IDs

Edit 2: I tried this theory with the provided JSON data.

There's an unusual delay of 3.2 seconds before the winner compared to 1.3 seconds in previous bets(which was also supposed to increase by 125%).
My theory will no longer help you , since 3.2 seconds is enough time to stop a bot and place a bet.

Can't help you on this OP. Sorry  

Unless you can find someone else who went through the same issue around that time.

[LoyceV]

Since everybody else here considers "newbies" inherently cheaters and Stake can never be in the wrong  .
~
3.2 seconds is enough time to stop a bot and place a bet.

Bugs can happen, but it requires proof or the player should be able to reproduce the bug. I didn't realize until now that autobet settings are not provably fair, but then again, the same applies to clicking a high/low button.

Why do you instantly bring up legal actions?
Have you written a complaint to the email address provided?

[saxydev]

@LoyceV it seems the chat was 3 weeks ago so the stake had time to reply to his issue in question. When you play 6k bets on autobet you don't look every 1 second.

[edgycorner]

Since everybody else here considers "newbies" inherently cheaters and Stake can never be in the wrong  .
~
3.2 seconds is enough time to stop a bot and place a bet.

Bugs can happen, but it requires proof or the player should be able to reproduce the bug.

Even if OP can reproduce the bug, there's still the question of evidence.

I was thinking of using epoch time to build that evidence. But unfortunately, it couldn't be.
All the other bets in OP's JSON file have a difference of around 1.3 seconds, except for the bet in question(which has 3.2 seconds).

I would suggest OP to record their bets as they happen in the future. Use a screen recorder.

I didn't realize until now that autobet settings are not provably fair, but then again, the same applies to clicking a high/low button.

Combine this with the fact that a casino knows your next roll(stake knows all three things: nonce+operator unhashed seed+client seed when you use their autobet feature).

If you believe that OP is telling the truth then there's a good chance of something like this happening:

Since Stake can predict the winning bet beforehand, they could have very well slowed down OP's winning roll(there's a delay of 1.9 seconds in this case), and manipulated their auto-bet setting.
They don't provide any recorded history of autobet setting in their json data either.
A website knows whether a user is on mobile or not, and through javascript can also determine whether the website's window is active or not.
If the user is on mobile and the website's window isn't active then it means the user isn't recording the rolls of the auto-bet, Stake can manipulate the autobet scot-free. Even if they get caught, they will refund the user and call it a bug. A customer with evidence will be compensated and he won't bother fighting over whether it was a bug or not. A customer with no evidence(like in this case) can do nothing.
Stake can turn off the auto-bet abruptly, right before the winning roll. In this case, the bettor can blame no one and will be left complaining even with evidence.
This scheme can be implemented on a large scale to farm additional profit alongside house edge. This is a hypothesis, not an accusation.

Or maybe it was just a bug.


Or maybe OP is lying.

We will never know the real truth    It's lost in time like tears in rain


Suggestion to OP: Never ever use a site's own autobet feature. Always build your own script, and randomize client seed on each roll.

[FatFork]

I was thinking of using epoch time to build that evidence. But unfortunately, it couldn't be.
All the other bets in OP's JSON file have a difference of around 1.3 seconds, except for the bet in question(which has 3.2 seconds).

Afaik, the auto-bet feature is just some javascript code running in the browser, client side. So yes, delays and bugs can happen. For example, the user might have a problem with his internet connection, high CPU usage, etc. Any of these factors could cause the bot to malfunction. Not to mention the fact that the user could have interfered, which is difficult (impossible) to prove or disprove.

Combine this with the fact that a casino knows your next roll(stake knows all three things: nonce+operator hash seed+client seed when you use their autobet feature).

In this case, the most important question is whether the game is still provably fair? If it is, the casino wouldn't be able to rig the game since they can't predict the result of the next bet, even if they know your next roll.

[edgycorner]

In this case, the most important question is whether the game is still provably fair? If it is, the casino wouldn't be able to rig the game since they can't predict the result of the next bet, even if they know your next roll.

OP was using autobet feature with a fixed pattern in a game of mine. The boxes are already selected when you use the auto-bet on mine.
So yes, Stake can predict the roll and thus the result(whether they will lose or win) in such cases.

[edgycorner]

I just came here to see if @twitchyseal posted here to say it's 100% player's mistake and Stake never will have a glitch... Seems he didn't see this thread yet.

Cut the guy some slack.

It's just human nature to suck up to the people above you, crap on those beneath you and undercut your equals.

This scheme can be implemented on a large scale to farm additional profit alongside house edge. This is a hypothesis, not an accusation.

For this to be true, there has to be many complaints about autobet.

I did a quick search, and was able to find plenty
https://stakecommunity.com/topic/41484-huge-problem-with-stake-originals/
https://stakecommunity.com/topic/51253-fix-autobet-for-once-for-all/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2168545.20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_1o1JQQmLw
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5224923.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5142165.0
https://stakecommunity.com/topic/30176-autobet-stops/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stake/comments/u5fkwi/run_dice_overnight/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5019695.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2168545.0

[Quel]

In this case, the most important question is whether the game is still provably fair? If it is, the casino wouldn't be able to rig the game since they can't predict the result of the next bet, even if they know your next roll.

OP was using autobet feature with a fixed pattern in a game of mine. The boxes are already selected when you use the auto-bet on mine.
So yes, Stake can predict the roll and thus the result(whether they will lose or win) in such cases.

Thanks for helping me figure this out.
Here is the full json log of that day: https://easyupload.io/qeadyk
Also i can confirm i was indeed playing on mobile.
For me the fact they don't put a flag in the logs weather a bet is auto or manual is a signal for leaving a door for rigging things.
Also for me 200$ is tottaly in the budget to lose so its not about the cash here, and about who we can trust.

[edgycorner]

In this case, the most important question is whether the game is still provably fair? If it is, the casino wouldn't be able to rig the game since they can't predict the result of the next bet, even if they know your next roll.

OP was using autobet feature with a fixed pattern in a game of mine. The boxes are already selected when you use the auto-bet on mine.
So yes, Stake can predict the roll and thus the result(whether they will lose or win) in such cases.

Thanks for helping me figure this out.
Here is the full json log of that day: https://easyupload.io/qeadyk
Also i can confirm i was indeed playing on mobile.
For me the fact they don't put a flag in the logs weather a bet is auto or manual is a signal for leaving a door for rigging things.
Also for me 200$ is tottaly in the budget to lose so its not about the cash here, and about who we can trust.

I plotted a graph of your last session. Time difference is in ms


Notice the spike in time when the roll was going to be a winner, and the bet should have increased.

[Stunna]

We are not aware of any bug like this regarding autobet, if you can reproduce the issue I would be happy to refund you and send you a reward for your efforts.

[Quel]

Thanks for the plot. It really shows how it glitched for a second.
Regarding the proof, I don't think i can reproduce this without putting more money since the bet staked is the issue.
Will see what additionally can i get.

[Pmalek]

We are not aware of any bug like this regarding autobet, if you can reproduce the issue I would be happy to refund you and send you a reward for your efforts.

You could actually deposit some funds into his account that he could use just for that testing purpose. That wouldn't be money he can ever withdraw. Once the testing is done, you take it back or give it to him as a reward for finding a bug. That way OP doesn't have to use his own money if his trust in your platform has been shaken by the things that happened.

But would Quel be interested in something like that?