DaveF (OP)
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June 05, 2022, 10:38:38 PM Last edit: June 06, 2022, 12:11:59 AM by DaveF |
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Although the video is not related to BTC / crypto collectables everyone should keep this in the back of their head coins go person to person to person. Some holograms are good others are...well....watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUJtqvYDnkgWith no offense to any one particular maker, do we really know how good the holograms really are? Hint....no we do not. -Dave
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Otillio1330
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June 05, 2022, 11:21:28 PM |
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Damn that was way too easy. Thanks for the video.
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
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June 05, 2022, 11:32:30 PM |
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wonder if that would harm a private key printed on regular paper. I use Revla paper (thanks to DaveF) and I am sure that would not be affected by this method. makes me question any second hand coin now...
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DaveF (OP)
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June 06, 2022, 12:08:21 AM |
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wonder if that would harm a private key printed on regular paper. I use Revla paper (thanks to DaveF) and I am sure that would not be affected by this method. makes me question any second hand coin now...
Would it matter what happens to the paper? Once the hologram is off you can always reprint it. I mentioned it to someone else in a PM but: Certain issues have been well known for 9 years https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2013/08/13/defcon-hackers-crack-physical-bitcoin-casascius-coins/Supposedly they (Casascius) fixed their holograms. But with everyone else we have to hope they bought their holograms from a quality maker and not just the lowest cost one. -Dave
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
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EIN: 82-3893490
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June 06, 2022, 12:31:14 AM |
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wonder if that would harm a private key printed on regular paper. I use Revla paper (thanks to DaveF) and I am sure that would not be affected by this method. makes me question any second hand coin now...
Would it matter what happens to the paper? Once the hologram is off you can always reprint it. I mentioned it to someone else in a PM but: Certain issues have been well known for 9 years https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2013/08/13/defcon-hackers-crack-physical-bitcoin-casascius-coins/Supposedly they (Casascius) fixed their holograms. But with everyone else we have to hope they bought their holograms from a quality maker and not just the lowest cost one. -Dave I meant with reg paper would it destroy the paper or make the key unreadable
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JanEmil
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June 06, 2022, 05:55:55 AM |
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Are we poor again?
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Kryptowerk
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Disobey.
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June 06, 2022, 09:26:54 AM |
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Although the video is not related to BTC / crypto collectables everyone should keep this in the back of their head coins go person to person to person. Some holograms are good others are...well....watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUJtqvYDnkgWith no offense to any one particular maker, do we really know how good the holograms really are? Hint....no we do not. -Dave Interesting and definitely concerning. What is the liquid used in the video to help peel the holo without any damage? I wanted to make a peel-a-Moonbits video for quite some time, and trying this method would be a good start.
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
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June 06, 2022, 10:59:45 AM |
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Its denatured alcohol
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DaveF (OP)
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Are we poor again?
As I have mentioned a few times before, there has always been a risk with things like this. My biggest fear has not actually been an attack like this but someone who went out and bought a bunch of coins and found a supplier that would make the same hologram that one of the big names makers that did not supply a list of addresses. Interesting and definitely concerning. What is the liquid used in the video to help peel the holo without any damage? I wanted to make a peel-a-Moonbits video for quite some time, and trying this method would be a good start.
He mentions at about 2:50 in the video it's just denatured alcohol. Does not say if it is 95% or 99% or 99.5% Would probably start with 95% and work my way up. -Dave
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
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June 06, 2022, 02:40:29 PM |
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I see that it says "virtually undetectable" and states "small deformation where the needle had stretched the sticker during insertion" I wish I could see pictures of this.
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SFR10
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June 06, 2022, 04:53:24 PM |
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wonder if that would harm a private key printed on regular paper.
I don't have a definite answer, but I have a feeling depending on the type of ink that's used on the paper in question, it could penetrate "some" of them [because of the ethanol part] and distort them to a very small extent [don't quote me on this one]. I see that it says "virtually undetectable" and states "small deformation where the needle had stretched the sticker during insertion" I wish I could see pictures of this.
I found what you were looking for in " another article":
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LoyceV
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June 06, 2022, 05:15:59 PM |
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I meant with reg paper would it destroy the paper or make the key unreadable That's easy to test. I printed on standard Xerox paper using an inkjet, poured 96% alcohol on it, poured some more, and rubbed it a bit with a tissue. Then I took this picture: I didn't have a laserjet attached, but I expect it to be even tougher. This is just one more reason for me not to buy collectibles: not your keys, ....... Don't get me wrong: I'd love it, but I don't dare. Who's sending a Casascius to the LockPickingLaywer?
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MoparMiningLLC
aka Stryfe
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June 06, 2022, 06:00:01 PM |
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I meant with reg paper would it destroy the paper or make the key unreadable That's easy to test. I printed on standard Xerox paper using an inkjet, poured 96% alcohol on it, poured some more, and rubbed it a bit with a tissue. Then I took this picture: I didn't have a laserjet attached, but I expect it to be even tougher. This is just one more reason for me not to buy collectibles: not your keys, ....... Don't get me wrong: I'd love it, but I don't dare. Who's sending a Casascius to the LockPickingLaywer? this is why I always state everyone should make their own keys but there are some makers who flat out refuse to make DIY and demand you trust their keys
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OgNasty
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I watched an interesting series of videos from the lockpickinglawyer and Stuff Made Here where the latter made an "unpickable" lock for the lawyer to try and crack. It was an interesting series of videos between the two and showed a great collaboration of different skill sets. Here's one of the videos. I found it worth the watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A2NY29iQdI&t=0sYou know what they say... Locks keep honest people honest. Same with tamper proof holograms. That's why purchasing items from reputable people is important. Nothing is unbeatable.
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nullama
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June 09, 2022, 07:45:09 AM |
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Although the video is not related to BTC / crypto collectables everyone should keep this in the back of their head coins go person to person to person. Some holograms are good others are...well....watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUJtqvYDnkgWith no offense to any one particular maker, do we really know how good the holograms really are? Hint....no we do not. -Dave I don't think holograms, or any other physical method, are particularly good at keeping something secure. You need to trust the creator of the collectible, because they have access to the private key. This is the easy part, because they have to build a reputation, and they don't want to lose it. But when buying from third parties it then becomes way more difficult to trust, as they can indeed get the coins and put back the hologram, or tamper with whatever mechanism there is. It's the same with gold and anything else really.
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FFrankie
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June 09, 2022, 01:49:25 PM |
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Anyone who didn't get their holos from securityhologram does not have good ones.
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OgNasty
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June 09, 2022, 06:25:34 PM |
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Anyone who didn't get their holos from securityhologram does not have good ones.
I think you should leave the video with the impression that security holograms are not "tamper proof" any more than a lock is not "pickable" so it doesn't matter where you buy them from... Casascius addressed this long ago by lasering the edges of his holograms so that they could not be removed cleanly with this technique. That was a great solution. In my first round of minted seats I also had crazy security features (anybody ever peeled one of the originals with the security bump under the hologram?) that proved to be too time consuming and labor intensive for me to continue while offering what I felt was a bargain basement price on my work. I imagine Casascius probably quickly tired of lasering his holograms onto coins as well, but it was a good solution that wouldn't matter where you bought the holograms from.
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..Stake.com.. | | | ▄████████████████████████████████████▄ ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██ ▄████▄ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ██████ ██ ██████████ ██ ██ ██████████ ██ ▀██▀ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ █████ ███ ██████ ██ ████▄ ██ ██ █████ ███ ████ ████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ████ ████▀ ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███ ██ ██ ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████████████████████████████████████ | | | | | | ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄ █ ▄▀▄ █▀▀█▀▄▄ █ █▀█ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▄██▄ █ ▌ █ █ ▄██████▄ █ ▌ ▐▌ █ ██████████ █ ▐ █ █ ▐██████████▌ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▀▀██████▀▀ █ ▌ █ █ ▄▄▄██▄▄▄ █ ▌▐▌ █ █▐ █ █ █▐▐▌ █ █▐█ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█ | | | | | | ▄▄█████████▄▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▀ ▐█▌ ▀█▄ ██ ▐█▌ ██ ████▄ ▄█████▄ ▄████ ████████▄███████████▄████████ ███▀ █████████████ ▀███ ██ ███████████ ██ ▀█▄ █████████ ▄█▀ ▀█▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄▄▄█▀ ▀███████ ███████▀ ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀ ▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀ | | | ..PLAY NOW.. |
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nullama
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June 10, 2022, 01:04:18 AM |
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Anyone who didn't get their holos from securityhologram does not have good ones.
I think you should leave the video with the impression that security holograms are not "tamper proof" any more than a lock is not "pickable" so it doesn't matter where you buy them from... Casascius addressed this long ago by lasering the edges of his holograms so that they could not be removed cleanly with this technique. That was a great solution. In my first round of minted seats I also had crazy security features (anybody ever peeled one of the originals with the security bump under the hologram?) that proved to be too time consuming and labor intensive for me to continue while offering what I felt was a bargain basement price on my work. I imagine Casascius probably quickly tired of lasering his holograms onto coins as well, but it was a good solution that wouldn't matter where you bought the holograms from. That's an interesting solution. Would it be possible, at least in theory, to automate the Casascius process these days with a cheap home laser engraver and a camera, running some fancy computer vision algorithms? This could even be done by the person who bought the collectible to make it more secure.
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2stout
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June 10, 2022, 04:29:05 AM |
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Anyone who didn't get their holos from securityhologram does not have good ones.
I think you should leave the video with the impression that security holograms are not "tamper proof" any more than a lock is not "pickable" so it doesn't matter where you buy them from... Casascius addressed this long ago by lasering the edges of his holograms so that they could not be removed cleanly with this technique. That was a great solution. In my first round of minted seats I also had crazy security features (anybody ever peeled one of the originals with the security bump under the hologram?) that proved to be too time consuming and labor intensive for me to continue while offering what I felt was a bargain basement price on my work. I imagine Casascius probably quickly tired of lasering his holograms onto coins as well, but it was a good solution that wouldn't matter where you bought the holograms from. That's an interesting solution. Would it be possible, at least in theory, to automate the Casascius process these days with a cheap home laser engraver and a camera, running some fancy computer vision algorithms? This could even be done by the person who bought the collectible to make it more secure. It could be but this would seem to at the least taint things, if not borderline bastardize them as you could have some holo's with and without the laser engraving but not done by the maker.
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