Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine

[Dripstoil]

Russia wants Ukraine to be abandoned without any help from the West, so they'd continue to strike and maim with impunity. The sad reality though is that USA and European Union has continued to appease the Kremlin much to the disappointment of Ukraine. Their reasons being that they don't want the war to escalate. But the truth is that you can't stop escalation by appeasing a dictator. Rather he would be emboldened to advance with impunity.

Having sensed the weakness shown so far by the west, Russia is capitalizing on that to threaten anyone who tries to supply weapons to the Ukrainian Military. This is where America and Europe has to draw the lines and move in with full intent by supplying Kiev with all the weapons they needed to prosecute this war. Not only with their self defense, but to be armed with the ability to launch great offensives against the Russians.

Ukraine should not only defend. They should be able to attack and hit Russian territories. That's the only way to balance the equation and possibly tilt the war in favor of Ukraine.

Ukraine has held back the supposed super power for 3 months,  limited them to the border towns. The last thing Russia would want is trying to goad a 'Real War Tested Superpower' into a direct confrontation. Russia is not in the same league with the US when it comes to conventional warfare and they know it.



You can see from the latest map that Russia has not been able to advance beyond the border towns and the few coastal cities, some of which they have been pushed back from, town after town. You can't win a war by simply defending your territory. You need to launch equal or surpassing devastation against your enemy in order to deter them.

THE US SUPPLY TO UKRAINE SO FAR

1. The Javelin anti-tank missiles
2. Switchblade drones
3. Artillery and body armor
4. Some high-tech equipment like laser-guided rocket systems
5. Surveillance radar
6. Mi-17 helicopters

This was detailed in a recent list circulated by the Department of Defense.

Increase in the supply of offensive lethal weapons to Ukraine will help stop Putin and accelerate the end to his madness. This stupid war has to end now.

Note: I've never been in support of straining the USA resources to fight foreign wars that does not concern us but this is different. Ukraine will pay for the weapons and a dictator has to be stopped before it's too late.

[1714625166]

1714625166

[1714625166]

1714625166

[1714625166]

1714625166

[1714625166]

1714625166

[1714625166]

1714625166

[bakasabo]

Ukraine should not only defend. They should be able to attack and hit Russian territories. That's the only way to balance the equation and possibly tilt the war in favor of Ukraine.

What about calls to stop this war? You suggest to stop violence with violence. If Ukraine starts to attack Russian territory, propaganda will 100% point on this and say that Russia has attack Ukraine to stop this and they acted ahead of. Russians, that are against war will support Putin even more. Because "we are being attacked and this must be stopped".

Answering on aggression with aggression is totally wrong. It will only give birth to more aggression.

[Dripstoil]

Ukraine should not only defend. They should be able to attack and hit Russian territories. That's the only way to balance the equation and possibly tilt the war in favor of Ukraine.

What about calls to stop this war? You suggest to stop violence with violence. If Ukraine starts to attack Russian territory, propaganda will 100% point on this and say that Russia has attack Ukraine to stop this and they acted ahead of. Russians, that are against war will support Putin even more. Because "we are being attacked and this must be stopped".

Answering on aggression with aggression is totally wrong. It will only give birth to more aggression.

You live next to a neighbor who woke up one day and started raining stones and bottles in your house,  breaking your roof and hitting your children and wife and injuring some. He continues without let up, and even coming closer and closer.

What would you do in this scenario?

Try to defend your compound with trampoline and give your children umbrella for protection? Giving him all the freedom in world to keep kitting your home while his own household goes about in total freedom and safety.

Or you hit back at his own house, wrecking equal havoc while protecting your home?

Which do you think would be more effective strategy?

[Zlantann]

Supplying more offensive weapons would escalate the war which would lead to more loss of lives and properties. Russia has in stock some hypersonic nuclear weapons that can reach most of the NATO nations including the US. NATO and the US also have the same military capabilities. The best option now is peace which can be triggered by dialogue and compromise. Russia and Ukraine have learnt their lessons. At least Russia now know that Ukraine is not as weak as it thought. They expected that war to last for few weeks but Ukraine has proved that they have the military capacity to fight this war for years. Ukraine has also learnt that NATO would only give average assistance and would never join the fight against Russia. They have also learnt that it is Ukraine that bears the pains and scars of the war. What we need now is peace.   

[TopTort777]

You live next to a neighbor who woke up one day and started raining stones and bottles in your house,  breaking your roof and hitting your children and wife and injuring some. He continues without let up, and even coming closer and closer.

What would you do in this scenario?

Try to defend your compound with trampoline and give your children umbrella for protection? Giving him all the freedom in world to keep kitting your home while his own household goes about in total freedom and safety.

Or you hit back at his own house, wrecking equal havoc while protecting your home?

Which do you think would be more effective strategy?

LOL. Definitely not trying to destroy neighbours house, because he can hire a bulldozer and destroy your house completely. Do you know difference between attacking and defending your property? If someone breaks into your house, would you call a police or wait until burglar leaves, or make him leave, and then break into his house ? Using same strategy enemy did is your choice? Piece is the only strategy or solution.

Or you hit back at his own house, wrecking equal havoc while protecting your home?

This is called not protecting, but spreading havoc

What will a third neighbour think about both of you? If both are doing havoc, how can you tell who is bad and who is good? Both should be put under control.

[Dripstoil]

Supplying more offensive weapons would escalate the war which would lead to more loss of lives and properties. Russia has in stock some hypersonic nuclear weapons that can reach most of the NATO nations including the US. NATO and the US also have the same military capabilities. The best option now is peace which can be triggered by dialogue and compromise. Russia and Ukraine have learnt their lessons. At least Russia now know that Ukraine is not as weak as it thought. They expected that war to last for few weeks but Ukraine has proved that they have the military capacity to fight this war for years. Ukraine has also learnt that NATO would only give average assistance and would never join the fight against Russia. They have also learnt that it is Ukraine that bears the pains and scars of the war. What we need now is peace.   

It's good to call for peace. We all love a peaceful world that is free of warfare. But has calling for peace ever worked in this scenario? I believe they should be some form of deterrence while we continue to call for peace and explore every negotiation tactics.

LOL. Definitely not trying to destroy neighbours house, because he can hire a bulldozer and destroy your house completely. Do you know difference between attacking and defending your property? If someone breaks into your house, would you call a police or wait until burglar leaves, or make him leave, and then break into his house ? Using same strategy enemy did is your choice? Piece is the only strategy or solution.

This is called not protecting, but spreading havoc

What will a third neighbour think about both of you? If both are doing havoc, how can you tell who is bad and who is good? Both should be put under control.

The analogy may not be perfect but let's assume there's no police to be called. All you have is your ability to defend yourself or attack back. Bear in mind the attack will continue days after days with no police to be called. What would you do?

[johhnyUA]

What about calls to stop this war?

Only agressor can stop this war it any moment. Victim have only two options: to die or to keep figthing for it's own life. Period

You suggest to stop violence with violence.

really good idea, this how it works in most cases. If i have a gun it's more unlikely you will try to rob my house.

propaganda will 100% point on this and say that Russia has attack Ukraine to stop this and they acted ahead of. Russians, that are against war will support Putin even more.

Your statement tha same as: "jews, stop protecting yourself, nazi propaganda will 100 % point on this"!
The problem is that russian propaganda already tells that ukrainians is not allowed to live. And ukrainian question must be solved (yeah, with no joke, the same as nazis told about "jewish question")
And Russia already invided Ukraine, so i doubt it can do things worse.

Supplying more offensive weapons would escalate the war which would lead to more loss of lives and properties. Russia has in stock some hypersonic nuclear weapons that can reach most of the NATO nations including the US.

This "hypersonic nuclear weapons" exists only in russian cartoons for Putin (with all other russian wunderwaffe). You should stop watch them already.

[BADecker]

Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine


There is one major reason why. Provides more jobs for American war machine manufacturers. Bring the US economy back up, even if it is through manufacturing war machines. I should get a job in that industry. I don't know what those guys get paid, but it should be at least $100 per hour.

Btw, with inflation going like it is and is going to be, soon fast food workers will be getting $100 per hour.

[TopTort777]

The analogy may not be perfect but let's assume there's no police to be called. All you have is your ability to defend yourself or attack back. Bear in mind the attack will continue days after days with no police to be called. What would you do?

I would stay home and protect my family at all cost. But I would not go out to enemy house to make a diversion or try to attack him there.

I know the life is not a movie, but have you seen movie Felon? Our discussed situation. A robber sneaked into a house and tried to ran away later. Main character chased him, tried to stop him outside his house, accidentally hit him with a bat to the head and killed him. Got into the jail. The society though he is more dangerous than a robber, because his actions continued aggression. In your case, if he USA supply Ukraine with weapons to attack Russia, what makes Ukraine different from Russia? They are attackers now. Isnt it? Should the world put sanctions against them also? Ban them from getting into EU or NATO? Who needs a neighbour that can turn from victim to an attacker in one second?

[af_newbie]

Ukraine should not only defend. They should be able to attack and hit Russian territories. That's the only way to balance the equation and possibly tilt the war in favor of Ukraine.

What about calls to stop this war? You suggest to stop violence with violence. If Ukraine starts to attack Russian territory, propaganda will 100% point on this and say that Russia has attack Ukraine to stop this and they acted ahead of. Russians, that are against war will support Putin even more. Because "we are being attacked and this must be stopped".

Answering on aggression with aggression is totally wrong. It will only give birth to more aggression.

The ONLY way to stop this aggression is to kill ALL aggressors as it is clear by now they will not stop.

There is no other way.

Ukrainians are not aggressors, they are defenders. We have a moral duty to help them in any way we can.

Defending against aggression is not aggression.

Russians waged wars of aggression for hundreds of years.  Even during WWII.

They are the country of aggressors.  Even today, the majority of Russians (even those who are not ethnic Russki) support aggression
against others.

[OgNasty]

...or... hear me out...  The USA could choose to mind their own business and worry about supplying more offensive weapons to their own citizenry so that we never have to worry about anyone trying to infringe on our basic human rights like the people from Ukraine are now feeling.  That would be crazy right?  Imagine a government supplying their own citizens with weapons...  Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?

It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on.  War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control.  Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich.  Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?).  I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be.  I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.

[BADecker]

...or... hear me out...  The USA could choose to mind their own business and worry about supplying more offensive weapons to their own citizenry so that we never have to worry about anyone trying to infringe on our basic human rights like the people from Ukraine are now feeling.  That would be crazy right?  Imagine a government supplying their own citizens with weapons...  Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?

It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on.  War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control.  Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich.  Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?).  I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be.  I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.

Right!

The USA is a free country... free for the good people and free for the bad people, free for the powerful and free for the weak. And let's keep her that way.

[johhnyUA]

Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?

You should came here, to Ukraine, and watch it by yourself. Maybe in that case you'll stop all your shitty takes about "proxy", "global games" etc. We have aggressor and victim.

When your ass in comfort and without a chance to be hit by a missile it's good condition for such sophisticated talks.

Lol, what I've found:

I've heard anyone say Putin didn't have the guts to invade...  He's sort of known for being a man's man who is fearless. 

yep, because of that he's sitting on a long long table




and also look at that:


At zhirinovsky's (russian far right) politican  funeral when putin came to coffin, honor guard dissapeared. Many westerners asks "Why?". The answer is easy: putin is afraid to be killed by some sneaky assasin.

[BADecker]

Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine


Russia needs to build its arsenal. Now they can do this easily... by taking the US weapons away from the Ukrainians as the Ukrainian soldiers surrender.

[Dripstoil]

Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine

Russia needs to build its arsenal. Now they can do this easily... by taking the US weapons away from the Ukrainians as the Ukrainian soldiers surrender.

For one thing. Ukraine is fighting with great wills, and have the guts to challenge the Russia army with average Weaponry. They have killed tens of generals, taken countless of tanks and destroyed many. Repelled the invaders from towns after towns. They did all these with near mediocre weapons. Now, imagine them being equipped with advanced high-tech offensive made in the USA weapons? Dispossessing them off the sophisticated weapons will be nothing short of suicide missions.

[onecall123]

No matter what Russia did, you cannot support to it with words. Ukraine calls it an invasion, and they are right to call it so. Though they have right to defend them, how long will their minnow army be able to compete against Russian big military forces?

However, the USA's resources in Ukraine are based on more diplomatic reasons than human factors.

As Russian forces close in on capturing a key city, the U.S. is providing Ukraine with weapons it has long sought to shoot down aircraft and knock out artillery.

What if it isn't the U.S.? There must be someone who supports the Ukrainian people.

What is happening? Kiev is slowly fading away, but nobody is helping them. Russian will not succeed if they assist them earlier. They need more resources than mere promises.

[Erumo]

Now, imagine them being equipped with advanced high-tech offensive made in the USA weapons?

Easy. But without proper training (and not a daily course) Ukraine army with high-tech weapons will be mishitting everything as stormtroopers

[johhnyUA]

But without proper training (and not a daily course) Ukraine army with high-tech weapons will be mishitting everything as stormtroopers

The best training - is on the battlefield. USA and other countries before supplying weapons to Ukraine, teach out soldiers at first. And after that our army practicing against orcs hordes 

So yeah, the best way to teach ukrainian military is to provide more heavy weaponry to it.

[BADecker]

But without proper training (and not a daily course) Ukraine army with high-tech weapons will be mishitting everything as stormtroopers

The best training - is on the battlefield. USA and other countries before supplying weapons to Ukraine, teach out soldiers at first. And after that our army practicing against orcs hordes 

So yeah, the best way to teach ukrainian military is to provide more heavy weaponry to it.

It's so sad that all these nice, young, Ukrainian soldiers have to die in training, but what else could anyone expect? Wishes and hopes don't make what is happening. And what is happening is that the part of the Ukraine that has become corrupt is failing. But the whole war is a cover for other things that are going on.


Ukraine President's Inner Circle Buying Multi-Million $ Mansions in Switzerland!

Oh, and how are they affording $9 million for those houses?  Is U.S. "foreign aid" being stolen so they can buy multi-million dollar mansions?

Like most countries, Switzerland has land registry records showing who owns a particular property, how much it sold for, and what taxes are paid on it.  Extracts from those land registries can be accessed by the general public.

Among the owners of luxury real estate in the country of banks and alpine meadows, are high-ranking officials from Zelensky's entourage.

We begin with Dmitry Razumkov, a Ukrainian politician and former Chairman of the Verkhovna (Legislature).

According to land registry extract Mr. Razumkov seems to have bought himself a luxurious home for 8,954,621.00 Swiss Francs, which are about equal to the value of a U.S. Dollar.  His name is at the bottom of the property sale record:

...

[OgNasty]

Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?

You should came here, to Ukraine, and watch it by yourself. Maybe in that case you'll stop all your shitty takes about "proxy", "global games" etc. We have aggressor and victim.

When your ass in comfort and without a chance to be hit by a missile it's good condition for such sophisticated talks.

No thanks.  I think more American assets in Ukraine is a bad idea, but I appreciate the invite. 

I'm not saying that Ukraine isn't the victim or that Russia isn't the aggressor.  I'm saying that sending Ukraine more weapons so they can live in this uncomfortable position for longer just to hurt Russia's finances as a way for the USA to hurt Russia's future is not fair to Ukrainians. 

Do you really think that having more weapons would help Ukraine end this war faster?  Even Biden came out publicly and said that we can't stop Russia from doing whatever they want with Ukraine.  All we can do is make it take longer and be more expensive.  Neither of those things are in the best interests of the Ukrainian people. 

If you want my no holds barred take on the situation, USA should tell Russia we're either going to stay the hell out of your affairs, or we're going to launch a full scale war against you if you attack our allies.  I don't believe in this proxy war bullshit because the wrong people end up being victims, in this case Ukrainians.