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Author Topic: selling drugs and money laundering: the potential downfall of bitcoin  (Read 28525 times)
mjsbuddha
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April 05, 2011, 02:38:42 AM
 #1

Well its services like 'silk road', and the inevitable money laundering schemes that will eventually catch the eye of the powers that be and compel them to declare the bitcoin network illegal. If we don't moderate and police our own network it will all disappear in smoke, and the profits of everyone involved along with it. Blatantly illegal activity going on will make bitcoin go the way of napster.
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NghtRppr
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April 05, 2011, 02:40:08 AM
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Well its services like 'silk road', and the inevitable money laundering schemes that will eventually catch the eye of the powers that be and compel them to declare the bitcoin network illegal. If we don't moderate and police our own network it will all disappear in smoke, and the profits of everyone involved along with it. Blatantly illegal activity going on will make bitcoin go the way of napster.

Napster is a poor example. A better example is BitTorrent which isn't going anywhere even though my gut feeling tells me that most torrent traffic is some form of copyright infringement.
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April 05, 2011, 02:44:42 AM
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Weren't there about 15 or 20 other threads about this, saying the same thing, and all the others from new users as well?

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April 05, 2011, 02:47:06 AM
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Yeah, we should totally ban them, this is illegal! Angry

Seriously, it has to start there. They need something like Bitcoin. If you want to decrease their influence on the currency, get legitimate businesses to accept Bitcoin now.

I am very fine with demand, no matter where it comes from. If Bitcoin catches on in this field, it will be a success.

Pecunia non olet.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
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mjsbuddha
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April 05, 2011, 02:47:23 AM
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The difference is, you can't bitorrent goods and services like you can with bitcoin. If you could use bitorrent to dowload drugs, you could bet on the government taking a more active roll in shutting it down.
mjsbuddha
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April 05, 2011, 02:49:40 AM
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Yeah, we should totally ban them, this is illegal! Angry

Seriously, it has to start there. They need something like Bitcoin. If you want to decrease their influence on the currency, get legitimate businesses to accept Bitcoin now.

I am very fine with demand, no matter where it comes from. If Bitcoin catches on in this field, it will be a success.

Pecunia non olet.

Or better yet, don't use their services. If they don't make money they will go away.
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April 05, 2011, 02:50:44 AM
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The difference is, you can't bitorrent goods and services like you can with bitcoin. If you could use bitorrent to dowload drugs, you could bet on the government taking a more active roll in shutting it down.

They have the same problem with real cash, I would bet they will put more effort into that rather than dive into our 5 million dollar economy.

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NghtRppr
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April 05, 2011, 02:51:27 AM
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The difference is, you can't bitorrent goods and services like you can with bitcoin. If you could use bitorrent to dowload drugs, you could bet on the government taking a more active roll in shutting it down.

I don't know about that. The RIAA, MPAA and rest of the pro-IP crowd probably have more lobbyists and therefore more political influence than the anti-drug crowd.
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April 05, 2011, 02:52:23 AM
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The difference is you can’t shut down Bitcoin. If it really gathers so much interest in the black market, demand will shoot up and wouldn’t decrease despite whatever the government is trying to do.

There is demand for illegal goods and Bitcoin provides a way to fulfill it. You can do nothing to stop this.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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April 05, 2011, 02:53:30 AM
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The difference is, you can't bitorrent goods and services like you can with bitcoin. If you could use bitorrent to dowload drugs, you could bet on the government taking a more active roll in shutting it down.

They have the same problem with real cash, I would bet they will put more effort into that rather than dive into our 5 million dollar economy.

Bitcoin could actually solve a lot of problems for "illegal drug" distribution networks. Once there are a sufficient number of exchangers in operation, you can be sure that they will follow. If they're really smart and forward-looking, they might set up legitimate exchangers themselves.

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mjsbuddha
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April 05, 2011, 02:58:11 AM
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Lets be honest, were all waiting for bitcoin to get on the 10-o-clock news or oprah to find out about it. When that time comes we want to look like a well organized autonomous group that's fit for legal and fair commerce, not a dark black market. We want more people to see the bitcoin network to improve the value of our bitcoins. Drugs and money laundering are the kinds of things that should try to avoid attention.
NghtRppr
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April 05, 2011, 02:59:52 AM
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Lets be honest, were all waiting for bitcoin to get on the 10-o-clock news or oprah to find out about it. When that time comes we want to look like a well organized autonomous group that's fit for legal and fair commerce, not a dark black market. We want more people to see the bitcoin network to improve the value of our bitcoins. Drugs and money laundering are the kinds of things that should try to avoid attention.

I agree it's not a good selling point for the general public but I disagree that it's going to be the downfall of Bitcoin.
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April 05, 2011, 03:17:45 AM
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The government can and will go after criminals by attacking their money.  Who knows, they might require bitcoin exchangers and other law-abiding bitcoin-friendly businesses to ban certain coins.

IMO, the only way bitcoin will remain a viable currency is to demonstrate over time that the vast majority of bitcoin users are law-abiding.  I do not want to see such a wonderful invention destroyed by the likes of Silk Road.  Bitcoin is truly unique, in its infancy, and an experiment that could fail for any number of reasons.

Associating bitcoin with criminality in the public mind is a sure path to quick failure and marginalization.


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epii
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April 05, 2011, 03:26:00 AM
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If you want to decrease their influence on the currency, get legitimate businesses to accept Bitcoin now.

+1

Come what may, this is a panacea for Bitcoin.

(However, I think it's pretty obvious that rumours of Bitcoin's illegalization would cause its value to crash and - if the rumours turned out to be true - perhaps never recover.)

Vires In Numeris.
mjsbuddha
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April 05, 2011, 03:35:08 AM
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If you want to decrease their influence on the currency, get legitimate businesses to accept Bitcoin now.

+1

Come what may, this is a panacea for Bitcoin.

(However, I think it's pretty obvious that rumours of Bitcoin's illegalization would cause its value to crash and - if the rumours turned out to be true - perhaps never recover.)

I agree but its hard to get legitimate businesses to accept bitcoins if when they check it out they see people selling illegal goods a services. All I'm saying is this is the forum where everyone comes to find out where bitcoins are accepted so if the moderators would simply delete posts where people are offering illegal goods, those services would be much harder to find, the moderators of this forum would be less likely to get in trouble, and the network as a whole would be more likely to thrive in the long run.
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April 05, 2011, 03:52:28 AM
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If you want to decrease their influence on the currency, get legitimate businesses to accept Bitcoin now.

+1

Come what may, this is a panacea for Bitcoin.

(However, I think it's pretty obvious that rumours of Bitcoin's illegalization would cause its value to crash and - if the rumours turned out to be true - perhaps never recover.)

I agree but its hard to get legitimate businesses to accept bitcoins if when they check it out they see people selling illegal goods a services. All I'm saying is this is the forum where everyone comes to find out where bitcoins are accepted so if the moderators would simply delete posts where people are offering illegal goods, those services would be much harder to find, the moderators of this forum would be less likely to get in trouble, and the network as a whole would be more likely to thrive in the long run.

Furthermore, I think the critique on this page ought to be heeded.  Even the druggies have reason to question our legitimacy.   Tongue

We have an uphill battle.  I'm personally in favour of keeping the official forum on a tighter leash, but I'm not sure which is the primary thread on which this matter has been debated.  Decentralized as we are, I think we still really need our moderators to take charge and make some definitive pronouncements on matters like this.  Perhaps we even need an election for a moderation chairman.

Vires In Numeris.
Garrett Burgwardt
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April 05, 2011, 03:55:07 AM
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I disagree. Getting bitcoin widely used by people for drugs is a quick path to success. Anyone who wants to sell things to drug users will accept coins for simplicity, and other businesses will follow.
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April 05, 2011, 04:01:17 AM
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edit.

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mjsbuddha
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April 05, 2011, 04:13:45 AM
 #19

I'm not debating if drugs should be illegal or not. I think people should be able to ingest anything they want. Regardless of whether it should or shouldn't be illegal, it is illegal. The government you want to over throw could buy all 5 million bitcoins in existence without batting an eye, instantly destroying the network. Don't tempt them. If you want this to succeed you have to make it something the powerful people want a piece of, not something they want to crush.
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April 05, 2011, 04:39:36 AM
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Wow, they can buy all my bitcoins! Oh noes! (Btw, profit. if government wanted to by my bitcoins, I'll sell 'em for a lot more than they are worth.) (And then I'll just be over there starting a new blockchain...)

Also, you talk about policing and monitoring the network. At bitcoin.org you might get the admins to agree with you (apparently so, as it's now not allowed to advertise illegal stuff in the marketplace). But how are you going to shut down Silkroad? Or any of the various other sites that will pop up. Will you boycott an exchange that is known to be used by these illegal sites?


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All the cool kids are leaving a donation address in their sig?
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