Bitcoin miners say NY ban will be ineffective and 'isolate' the state

[FMCPAY_GLOBAL]

Miners feel that the New York legislature’s efforts to get Bitcoin miners out of their state will backfire in the long run as other states invite miners to help improve their energy grid.

Environmental sustainability has been at the heart of the New York state government’s argument against Proof-of-Work (PoW) mining. The controversial mining ban bill would prohibit any new mining operations in the state for the next two years. It would also refuse the renewal of licenses to those who are already operating in the state unless it uses 100% renewable energy.

GEM Mining recently commented that the bill will not only miss its intended target but also discourage new, renewable-based miners from doing business in the state. Warren told Cointelegraph that his operation is already 97% carbon neutral.

Roughly 10% of the US's hashing power comes from New York according to the Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index (CBECI). This makes it the fourth-biggest producer in the country. As of April, miners indicated in a survey with the Bitcoin Mining Council that about 58% of the energy used for mining is from sustainable sources.

(Source: Cointelegraph)

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[Charles-Tim]

Miners feel that the New York legislature’s efforts to get Bitcoin miners out of their state will backfire in the long run as other states invite miners to help improve their energy grid.

How is it going to backfire? I do not see how it will backfire, but just that New York could have moved towards making miners to use clean energy for bitcoin mining instead. Bitcoin contributes little to global warming but bitcoiners are always disappointed to see people going against bitcoin mining baselessly just like New York. Let us see if the approach can have significant effect on global warming, definitely it won't. Even if the world all ban bitcoin mining, that does not mean they ban the increasing deforestation, non clean energy generation and the release of greenhouse gases into the environment through industrial activities which is what they should focus on and not bitcoin mining ban possibility.

[slaman29]

Miners feel that the New York legislature’s efforts to get Bitcoin miners out of their state will backfire in the long run as other states invite miners to help improve their energy grid.

How is it going to backfire? I do not see how it will backfire, but just that New York could have moved towards making miners to use clean energy for bitcoin mining instead. Bitcoin contributes little to global warming but bitcoiners are always disappointed to see people going against bitcoin mining baselessly just like New York. Let us see if the approach can have significant effect on global warming, definitely it won't. Even if the world all ban bitcoin mining, that does not mean they ban the increasing deforestation, non clean energy generation and the release of greenhouse gases into the environment through industrial activities which is what they should focus on and not bitcoin mining ban possibility.

Yup, New York knows what it is doing. They were the first state to really get serious about crypto, not just mining. They want miners to get clean energy, miners will comply. And then they will become a model state, for others to follow, and after a year or two everyone will know how to get into the clean process easily. I see this as a good long term plan, plus adds more ammunition to dispel the dirty Bitcoin mining myth.

So I know it seems like bad news but 2 years is a short time and enough for everyone to become 100% renewable. The complications and requirements are unfair and biased for sure but it will work out for miners in the end.

[avikz]

The land price in NY is one of the costliests in the world. So I doubt if NY houses any big miner. If they are forced out of NY, that will be blessing in disguise for the miners. They can simply move to Texas and probably expand their mining operations to a great extent.

But the concern here is that it will probably force some other states to take such decision if the governor of those states are not crypto friendly. It's always difficult to take the first step but the other steps just follow the first one. I am afraid that shouldn't become a trend in US.

[Welsh]

The land price in NY is one of the costliests in the world. So I doubt if NY houses any big miner. If they are forced out of NY, that will be blessing in disguise for the miners. They can simply move to Texas and probably expand their mining operations to a great extent.

But the concern here is that it will probably force some other states to take such decision if the governor of those states are not crypto friendly. It's always difficult to take the first step but the others steps just follow the first one. I am afraid that shouldn't become a trend in US.

Exactly what I was thinking. Mining margins are already thin with the average cost of electric, and the miners themselves. Let alone, factoring in running those miners in or around a city/state like New York. I guess the out skirts of the city itself, probably is more affordable, but the city will have massive electricity charges just like any major city.

This probably isn't going to effect too many smaller miners either, since the margins probably wasn't worth it in the beginning. Although, this does signal one of the first steps of doing this sort of regulation, and likely other countries, and states of the US will follow suit.

[ChiBitCTy]

The funny thing is New York has been isolating themselves from the financial industry for a very long time despite being where Wall Street is. They don’t even allow for a good amount of basic financial products, which in turn actually hurts its citizens rather than protecting them (which they claim is what they’re doing).

[DaveF]

The land price in NY is one of the costliests in the world. So I doubt if NY houses any big miner. If they are forced out of NY, that will be blessing in disguise for the miners. They can simply move to Texas and probably expand their mining operations to a great extent.

But the concern here is that it will probably force some other states to take such decision if the governor of those states are not crypto friendly. It's always difficult to take the first step but the others steps just follow the first one. I am afraid that shouldn't become a trend in US.

As I posted elsewhere on the board:
Since as of last year NY had just under 20% of the total US mining and was growing:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/09/war-to-attract-bitcoin-miners-pits-texas-against-new-york-kentucky.html

The land price in NY is one of the costliests in the world. So I doubt if NY houses any big miner. If they are forced out of NY, that will be blessing in disguise for the miners. They can simply move to Texas and probably expand their mining operations to a great extent.

Not even close. DOWNSTATE NY like NYC and the surrounding area are very expensive. But once you start heading north and west it's not really more or less expensive then any other state. As you get even more north you have cheap hydro power and since it's cool / cold a large part of the year it makes cooling your facility that much cheaper.
OR as 'real' major data centers have found it's better to pay more for electric and land and then use less cooling then save a few (yes a FEW) cents for KWH and have to run the coolers longer and harder.

The funny thing is New York has been isolating themselves from the financial industry for a very long time despite being where Wall Street is. They don’t even allow for a good amount of basic financial products, which in turn actually hurts its citizens rather than protecting them (which they claim is what they’re doing).

Or, it puts them in more control of the businesses that are here. I use this example since it happened to me. Black Hat / DecfCon 2011 3 of us got our debit cards comprised. We all used the same ATM at JFK when flying out.
I had all the money taken out of my account returned to me before we were back home a week later. The other 2 neither of which were NY residents even though we all used the same bank waited more then a month to get their funds returned. Why? Because of the big stick. Nobody wants to mess with the NYDFS. The carrot is you get to do business in one of the largest financial markets in terms of people and money.

NSFW how NYDFS talks to banks / financial institutions that don't follow their rules: https://youtu.be/Odd8Zdhuj9o?t=109

Which, on the other side of the coin does as you said cause a lot of people / businesses not want to be here. No argument, but the ones that do exist here tend to follow the rules.

-Dave

[DapanasFruit]

I understand that new York in general is not the best location to be doing business all because of its overregulated environment and remember that it can cost a lot of money starting a business here compared to other states...so in case of mining why would they be concentrating in NY when they can easily transfer to other more friendly locations? When your location seems to be discouraging your type of business then it is time to find new location somewhere...that is just a rational thing to do.

[Kelvinid]

I understand that new York in general is not the best location to be doing business all because of its overregulated environment and remember that it can cost a lot of money starting a business here compared to other states...so in case of mining why would they be concentrating in NY when they can easily transfer to other more friendly locations? When your location seems to be discouraging your type of business then it is time to find new location somewhere...that is just a rational thing to do.

And to move from another place might not be a big issue for the miners.
But what I see from this situation, NY has been making themselves out of big opportunities that these miners could contribute to their economic growth.

Ohh, that NY alone can't make stop Bitcoin mining, there are so many places that welcome miners and help to grow their business. So I see this no impact on the market, we are still seeing an increase of miners in their place rather than being afraid of what this banning proposal may result.

[Slow death]

GEM Mining recently commented that the bill will not only miss its intended target but also discourage new, renewable-based miners from doing business in the state. Warren told Cointelegraph that his operation is already 97% carbon neutral.

I don't understand why GEM Mining would say that the new york state government will not achieve its objective when it can be clearly seen that if such a law is passed there will be no miners, and that is the purpose of the law. and this is something to be expected, every country in the world is on the wave of global warming, so it is obvious that measures like these that the new york government is taking will happen everywhere and bitcoin miners should already start preparing for it. So in the future we will see more tough measures on this issue of electricity that pollutes and miners will be accused of wasting electricity and therefore will be restricted, I wonder what kind of future mining will have?

[The Cryptovator]

The decision made by NY isn't harmful to anyone nor miners or NY. Since they prevent the use of power source which isn't renewable, they aren't preventing mining. Whether miners will move to other places or will comply with the rules. I don't see why the rules should backfire in NY. This isn't a big fact, to be honest, but it's like a FUD. Bitcoin miners should think from the beginning about renewable energy so that they won't fall into trouble later on. There should be a revolution in renewable energy that should use for the Bitcoin mining.

[franky1]

The land price in NY is one of the costliests in the world. So I doubt if NY houses any big miner. If they are forced out of NY, that will be blessing in disguise for the miners. They can simply move to Texas and probably expand their mining operations to a great extent.

here is a thought to expand peoples minds..

setting up 200 asics (29peta) only requires a 20foot shipping container.
having an empty parking lot with 20 shipping containers and access to the neighbourhood electrical junction box can allow for half an exahash..

these days it does not require warehouses and leases. instead just a plot of empty land or an unused carpark that previously could park under 50 cars is all thats needed to have a 0.5exahash farm.

the other advantages of mining these days is that being set up in shipping containers is that yes.. they can easily move if asked to... so its of no consequence either way..

they can set up within hours of a truck convoy in NY, run there for a few months. organise a better electric deal somewhere else for the next quarter, convoy to that location and run there for a few months. where they are not fixed to 1-10 year warehouse leases. instead they just pay the similar fee to what a truck pays to 'park' for a certain time in a truck stop kinda of scenario.

[dezoel]

Honestly this is not a loss for miners, but a loss for New York itself. They could have just accepted the miners, put a renewable energy quota to each of them, and use that to distribute cheaper energy to people who need it the most. Think about it, do you really believe that someone will open up a mining farm in wall street skyscrapers?

Of course not, it would have been in lower income places where they could find warehouses big enough to store all those machinery, or it would be individuals basically, which wouldn't really be a big deal. So, what we really needed was just making sure that New York profited from this, and they went the opposite direction instead.

[Gyfts]

Miners feel that the New York legislature’s efforts to get Bitcoin miners out of their state will backfire in the long run as other states invite miners to help improve their energy grid.

How is it going to backfire? I do not see how it will backfire, but just that New York could have moved towards making miners to use clean energy for bitcoin mining instead. Bitcoin contributes little to global warming but bitcoiners are always disappointed to see people going against bitcoin mining baselessly just like New York. Let us see if the approach can have significant effect on global warming, definitely it won't. Even if the world all ban bitcoin mining, that does not mean they ban the increasing deforestation, non clean energy generation and the release of greenhouse gases into the environment through industrial activities which is what they should focus on and not bitcoin mining ban possibility.

Yup, New York knows what it is doing. They were the first state to really get serious about crypto, not just mining. They want miners to get clean energy, miners will comply. And then they will become a model state, for others to follow, and after a year or two everyone will know how to get into the clean process easily. I see this as a good long term plan, plus adds more ammunition to dispel the dirty Bitcoin mining myth.

So I know it seems like bad news but 2 years is a short time and enough for everyone to become 100% renewable. The complications and requirements are unfair and biased for sure but it will work out for miners in the end.

New York did nothing to get serious about Bitcoin. The market decided that Bitcoin was something that deserves attention, and NY is stepping in the way with their lunacy and far left policies of green energy.

Green energy is not sustainable with the current technology, let alone in a place like New York. It isn't feasible to mine crypto using green energy. You have to pay for the infrastructure and the maintenance, and hope you might come out with a profit. Why force crypto miners to take that large of a gamble?

Nobody should look towards NY as jurisdiction that's doing anything right.

[so98nn]

So NY is 4th largest producer of power and it is also highest rated miner with 10% words has power, so this means they have high electricity bill payment, bigger state taxes and huge income from the miners around NY and yet they are against bitcoin miner!! Let’s not discuss the shit like it’s producing huge carbon dioxide. Have you ever seen the cooling towers and their air compressors. Lolz, they are consuming more power and releasing more green house gases for sure. It’s not easy to Cool the whole tower isn’t it? What about the IT companies, 24x7 running servers and every shit in those glass towers, imagine the power consumption and effects on environment.
Still they want bitcoin miners to be moved. Seems only one reason: they are scared of decentralisation.

[savetheFORUM]

The funny thing is New York has been isolating themselves from the financial industry for a very long time despite being where Wall Street is. They don’t even allow for a good amount of basic financial products, which in turn actually hurts its citizens rather than protecting them (which they claim is what they’re doing).

The problem is the inability of those in power to understand the product. I think that those power are having a hard time with accepting what bitcoin is. And another problem is with those who keeps on assuming what bitcoin is not, they are always pointing fingers and calling it all sorts of names that has nothing to do with what it is.

Some of them has called it a Ponzi, and some has said that it is bad for the environment due to the mining, and a lot has been said about it which really makes it hard for the government to agree with this. But I feel those who has rejected bitcoin now would see a reason to get back to it in the future.

[slaman29]

Yup, New York knows what it is doing. They were the first state to really get serious about crypto, not just mining. They want miners to get clean energy, miners will comply. And then they will become a model state, for others to follow, and after a year or two everyone will know how to get into the clean process easily. I see this as a good long term plan, plus adds more ammunition to dispel the dirty Bitcoin mining myth.

So I know it seems like bad news but 2 years is a short time and enough for everyone to become 100% renewable. The complications and requirements are unfair and biased for sure but it will work out for miners in the end.

New York did nothing to get serious about Bitcoin. The market decided that Bitcoin was something that deserves attention, and NY is stepping in the way with their lunacy and far left policies of green energy.

Green energy is not sustainable with the current technology, let alone in a place like New York. It isn't feasible to mine crypto using green energy. You have to pay for the infrastructure and the maintenance, and hope you might come out with a profit. Why force crypto miners to take that large of a gamble?

Nobody should look towards NY as jurisdiction that's doing anything right.

Nothing serious about Bitcoin? You don't think the Bitlicense was the NY state getting serious about it? Not that when I said that, I didn't mean NY was supportive of Bitcoin (I don't think it ever was I think it was a way of compromise with regulators).

And this was way back in 2015 or 2016 too, when I don't think there was anyone close coming to that level of serious regulation like only until recently.