THIS CRASH IS DIFFERENT than previous crashes... The FEDERAL RESERVE is why....

[mv1986]

If inflation keeps developing at the rate even most of the Western world is currently facing, you might be forced to add quite a lot of countries to your list

So maybe we are rather sooner than later all calculating in Bitcoin instead of USD or EUR! But that won't happen soon I guess as politicians will know their way out at least temporarily through elite status preserving regulations aka Bitcoin's utility suppressing regulations. 

Honestly in most nations you would still be working for 1 bitcoin and be fine. Yes, you wouldn't be making a bank in most western nations, but you would still survive. If you are making 20k a year in the USA, that is not ideal and you would be poor, but you wouldn't be the worst situation person, you would still be surviving, and it is a bit over minimum wage. Hell if you have another roommate that also works and makes that much, for a 40k a year, a household could stand, noodles and ramen but it could stand.

This is one of the richest nations in the world, if you look at other places like UK or Germany, it would be about the similar issue. The lower you go, the better life you would have. I am not even making 20k a year, I can tell you that much, and I am middle income in my nation, none of my friends make as much as I make, I am richest among my friends, and yet I am not making 20k a year.

Thanks for your honesty at this point, but as we can still see it is more about preferences. When you hire a graphic designer or developer here on the forum, it is usually denoted in USD per hour in converted into a certain crypto. No doubt about what you said, there are lots of countries where 20k a year would put you even in an amazing position. I am not sure though in how far people are willing to seal contracts denoted in Bitcoin per year and in how far there is infrastructure in the aforementioned countries to facilitate this type of contract. It still comes down to speculation. When would Elon Musk accept one Bitcoin for a Tesla when it was at 70,000 USD? Only when he thinks that Bitcoin has the potential to go up. So there is still some type of implied speculation in most transactions within the Bitcoin economy.

[1715587029]

1715587029

[1715587029]

1715587029

[tadamichi]

make jewlery out of gold [...] this is not what gives these things its monetary value.

Actually, making jewellery is one the things that does give monetary value. If gold was a dead rock, with boring grey color, it'd not fit to you as it does now. Being pretty does satisfy need. There are far more clever ways to utilize it essentially, though.

I agree that what you mentioned fits needs, but i would argue that it fits them outside the core needs of money. Maybe it can spark some interest and help this good to become more popular and easier to trade with. But then after this, it depends on how good it performs as money to succeed for being used as money. Gold is way more valuable than fiat and yet we still ended up with fiat smh. So i looked at the whys.

In my mind i use the criteria:

Most saleable good(easiness of tradebility with a good)
Store of Value - (Scarcity, durability)
Medium of exchange - (Acceptability, Portability)
Unit of Account - (Divisibility, Fungibility)

Gold lacks so hard in portability and divisibility that it becomes so hard to use it as money. Now if you make jewellery out of gold it becomes even worse as money, because it looses more fungibility additionally.

That’s why im arguing that even when a good can be used as money/ something else at the same time, doing so would hurt it in the area you’re not intending to use it for. So in my mind i separate the two by use case. Jewellery isn’t money and my gold bar/coin is money, even tho they’re both gold, they suit different needs better. But people could do this however they prefer, but these core properties i mentioned above definitely matter for the use as money.

Because Gold lacks so hard for regular usage, people had to find an easier way to do trade. You can’t even easily divide gold for smaller payments for example. So they started to use Paper, that was first backed by gold. Then the paper was used solely as money itself, because there was flaws in the gold standard.(i won’t go in deeper now)

Now we’re going into next era and the paper and everything else is started to being traded digitally, but the old system doesn’t really fit into this natively. And Fiat itself is not a system that can even survive without constant intervention, more control and more extreme and more extreme inequality. It’s a weak fragile form of money, the debt based money creation makes it a worse store of value with everytime it’s used.

So now we have something like Bitcoin coming up, that is superior to gold and fiat in every property mentioned above except acceptability, but we know acceptability grows with adoption. We have additional features like censorship resistance, decentralization, transaction finality that just fit way better to money that is used digitally, that actually makes trade easier in this environment, we shouldn’t forget that this is the core function of money. Fiat makes trade harder everyday and is tanking the economy in the process.

It’s native internet money, not an afterthought that doesn’t really fit like fiat. I think that just by basic economical money principles, Bitcoin is the next logical advancement of money. It can fit all the needs you could think of, better, it doesn’t matter if it can be used for something else or not, in my opinion.

That’s why im making a clear separation between money and economic resource, a good needs to specialise in one of the two. Bitcoin could be useless at anything else and would still win the money game by a lot, and yet i never keep hearing them mentioning anything about this.

If you check these criteria out, you will also notice quickly that Bitcoin beats any altcoins by a lot in this, even tho it has less features. Fundamentals just matter more in my opinion. It defeats the altcoin narrative.

All of these Bitcoin haters keep bringing up what they cant use it for and that this is what makes it worthless

I think bitcoin haters exist solely because of:

Misinformation, ignorance, arrogance.

It could be, it would be nice to hear HardFacts honest reasoning for thinking Bitcoin is worthless.

[franky1]

this is where people need to separate PRICE, VALUE, VALUES
to understand how each impacts each other

golds values(features and benefits give it desire/demand)
gold value(underlying all this, is the underlying basic cost of acquiring it no one wants to sell below)
gold price is the value+values(underlying cost plus speculative variable of the desire/demand)

golds price is not its store of value. golds store of value is less then the gold price
golds store of value is about $900 right now whilst golds price is about double that.
the double(premium) of the price is a variable caused by the speculative whimsy of sentiment about the desire and demand based on what peoples values(sentiment of features/benefits) are.

..
now whats creates the value(underlying cost).
if no one wants it... miners wont bother mining it. meaning that they dont put much money into it.  

when something has a low store of value but a high speculative price.. that is a BUBBLE
when the price is low but the value is high. that is CHEAP/DISCOUNT/great price:value..

the value(economic amount) is not the same as the value(features,benefits utility)
what makes something a good currency. is its utility/values(features/benefits). the more features it offers the more benefits it offers. the more used it will become and more desired.. which then impacts the value and price

money(sub category of currency) has specific values it has to achieve

as for the criteria used by previous poster.. id tweak that abit to:

common - (accessible and acceptable by broad community)
Store of Value - (underlying cost no one sells below)
Medium of exchange - (commonly agreed to a price (variable/separate to value) for other goods/services/labour/assets)
Unit of Account - (Divisibility, Fungibility, easily transferable)

'scarcity' is not a feature of "money" because the most common money is fiat.. and thats not scarce.

i know previous is trying to say he doesnt see fiat as being real money and hasnt been since de-pegging the gold standard.. but if enough people accept it as common then it becomes their money, even if its no longer scarce

[tadamichi]

i know previous is trying to say he doesnt see fiat as being real money and hasnt been since de-pegging the gold standard.. but if enough people accept it as common then it becomes their money, even if its no longer scarce

Lmao the amount of bs this guy is trying to put into my mouth is insane, saying things i didnt even said. Fiat is real money, an ideal money would fit all the properties i mentioned above, but no form of money did so far. And it has nothing to do with the gold standard. Can you even read or are you mentally challenged in some way, or just some weird psychopath? Fiat has its unique problems, gold has them too. But now for the first time the money problem could actually be fixed with Bitcoin. You’re a fool if you think money can’t have different forms and characteristics that separate them and make one form more suited over the other.

'scarcity' is not a feature of "money" because the most common money is fiat.. and thats not scarce.

It has nothing to do with fiat, Internet professor.

Store of Value - (underlying cost no one sells below)

Store of value - Scarcity(Supply relative to other goods), Durability(No loss in functionality with repeated use)

Medium of exchange - (commonly agreed to a price (variable/separate to value) for other goods/services/labour/assets)

Medium of Exchange - Acceptability(Used and accepted by others), Portability(Easily moveable across distances)

Unit of Account - (Divisibility, Fungibility, easily transferable)

Unit of Account - Divisibility(Easily dividable into smaller units), Fungibility(1 unit is the same as the other)

These are the common definitions, not the bs you mentioned.

[franky1]

i know previous is trying to say he doesnt see fiat as being real money and hasnt been since de-pegging the gold standard.. but if enough people accept it as common then it becomes their money, even if its no longer scarce

Lmao the amount of bs this guy is trying to put into my mouth is insane, saying things i didnt even said.

i know exactly what you said.
but when you shake your head at the choice of fiat vs gold being money or not..  means that YOU think gold should have been  more common used as money...

Gold is way more valuable than fiat and yet we still ended up with fiat smh.

this moment here show your hidden emotion of wanting to think gold is/was in your mind more (ideal) money than fiat buy shaking your head to the reality that went against your secret opinion.

yes you then tried to explain off the shake your head to try to consolidate /change your mind of your secret opinion of why you shouldnt be shaking your head. by trying to understand why fiat is actually treated more like money then gold.

So i looked at the whys.

but yea its obvious you preferred if people treated gold more commonly. you just trying to justify to yourself the reason to change your mind.
however by you slipping in the "scarcity" criteria. shows your mind is still leaning back towards (bias in favour of) still wanting think gold is better (IDEAL) money in your mind

yes you mention it doesnt fit your criteria perfect and you call out the flaws of both. but you head shake and slips in of scarcity reveal your real secret preference

my goal was to see that your still bias in favour of a scarce money being ideal money. and give you a clearer idea of what others see as money.
scarcity is not part of money criteria. and common acceptance is the main one.

as for your definition of store of value.. . no you described the sentiment of values...
values(sentiment of feature) and value(economic amount) are different things. ones a feature, ones an economic amount.

store of value is an economic amount

[tadamichi]

 means that YOU think gold should have been  more common used as money...

It doesn’t, i never even said this, it is a better store of value, doesn’t have the inflation problems and yet it failed as money. That’s all i said. If one of the best store of values in history, failed as money like this, it might be worth looking into why. Fiat is better except in the store of value aspect. Maybe you don’t look outside that much, but we’re experiencing one the highest inflations since a long time at the moment, so any sane person would get that reference. That fiat is a terrible store of value and not a sustainable form of money in its current form. And requires trust to work, so it won’t ever work for everyone.

this moment here show your hidden emotion of wanting to think gold is/was in your mind more (ideal) money than fiat buy shaking your head to the reality that went against your secret opinion.

You officially need a psychiatrist, but i wouldnt want any person to have to deal with this. I literally said fiat replaced gold, that the money that makes trade easier/ more efficient wins.

but yea its obvious you preferred if people treated gold more commonly. you just trying to justify to yourself the reason to change your mind.
however by you slipping in the "scarcity" criteria. shows your mind is still leaning back towards (bias in favour of) still wanting think gold is better (IDEAL) money in your mind

yes you mention it doesnt fit your criteria perfect and you call out the flaws of both. but you head shake and slips in of scarcity reveal your real secret preference

my goal was to see that your still bias in favour of a scarce money being ideal money. and give you a clearer idea of what others see as money.
scarcity is not part of money criteria. and common acceptance is the main one.

as for your definition of store of value.. . no you described the sentiment of values...
values(sentiment of feature) and value(economic amount) are different things. ones a feature, ones an economic amount.

store of value is an economic amount

https://www.seekingtherapy.com/online-therapy/

You’re welcome.

Please just don’t reply to any of my posts in the future and i won’t reply to yours either, it’s the best way to go forward.

[HardFacts]

And so is fiat. There's nothing you can do with 1, 10, 100 million USD if nobody is willing to exchange goods for it, but I don't see you call this a scam. Humans appear to be satisfied with money, even if they can't intrinsically utilize it.

You are VERY WRONG...   US Dollars has the assets and the full force of the US Government, Its assets / Military / law behind it, so there is some backing even if it is not enough....  Even with all this advantage, fiat currencies eventually go to zero anyways.

Bitcoin has NONE of this behind it, Bitcoin is worse and weaker than FIAT, it is nothing more than a Crypto / Ponzi Scheme.   NOTHING backs Bitcoin but what some greater fool will pay for it.  No one has come up with any use case for Bitcoin when the day comes that people will not pay for it anymore  

The Crypto world is even worse, it is Ponzi schemes built on top of Ponzi schemes.  We are already starting to see the very first stages of various crypto schemes blow up...

[BlackHatCoiner]

You are VERY WRONG...   US Dollars has the assets and the full force of the US Government, Its assets / Military / law behind it, so there is some backing even if it is not enough...

You said it yourself. There's something forcing you to treat it as valuable. If you don't, and so does every person of the nation, it's a worthless pile of paper notes.

Bitcoin has NONE of this behind it

False. Bitcoin is backed by all the goods and services people are willing to exchange with it. Every new merchant is a new asset for the community, and every new merchant prefers being paid in a free, cheap, censorship-resistant and private type of money wherein he's in complete control rather than one that's opaque, weak, inefficient, censoring and provably fallible.

it is nothing more than a Crypto / Ponzi Scheme

But, a ponzi scheme:

• does have promised high returns.
• does have misleading statements.
• is completely obscure.
• once it crashes, it never recovers.

Bitcoin meets no such criteria.

The Crypto world is even worse

But, you're on a bitcoin forum, talking about bitcoin, in the Bitcoin Discussion board. If you want to state your opinion about cryptocurrencies in general, acknowledge that you're going off-topic.

[tadamichi]

 

You are VERY WRONG...   US Dollars has the assets and the full force of the US Government, Its assets / Military / law behind it, so there is some backing even if it is not enough....  Even with all this advantage, fiat currencies eventually go to zero anyways.

Advantages? You need one of the most corrupt organisations in history to enforce this thing, that will go to 0 anyways. Does it sound sound natural if it was really a sustainable working system? This is a sign of poor design, not an advantage.

Wouldn’t an ideal money be used voluntarily? Because it could store everyone’s wealth better, acts as a worldwide medium of exchange, and is a better unit of account. Being beneficial to everyone and making trade easier for the economy on a whole. You don’t need to put a gun on someone’s head if you’re really offering them something beneficial, it’s the opposite you put a gun on their head if you want them to do something that is against their own will/ interest/ benefit. If it was beneficial to them they would start to use it voluntarily, after they understood it. In fiat they don’t even teach most of the population how it works. Coincidence or is it better for fiat if no one actually understands how it works? You’re literally supposed to not understand how it works, just use it and then shut up. And if you don’t they force you. Does this indicate an advantage, or something that is wrong with the thing they designed?

Something i noticed is that Bitcoin haters tend to be conformists that love to be dominated/ want their life dependent on authorities.

Bitcoin has NONE of this behind it, Bitcoin is worse and weaker than FIAT, it is nothing more than a Crypto / Ponzi Scheme.  

If it was weaker than fiat, so how did it survive everything so far? Against the organization you mentioned above. It didn’t need to put a gun on anyones head to survive and yet still did survive and is thriving. So how?

NOTHING backs Bitcoin but what some greater fool will pay for it.  No one has come up with any use case for Bitcoin when the day comes that people will not pay for it anymore  

Nah, you should come up with a reason why people won’t pay for it anymore. Im waiting.

[aysg76]

Bitcoin going down by such a large amount has ENDED the dream of a lot of serious institutional money investing into Bitcoin.  No large institution is going to invest real money into Bitcoin now that it has crashed by more than 66 % in less than a year.

So you were saying about no big institutions are going to invest in bitcoin with prices going down around 70% ? But don't if you are active on the market watch and seeing how big players are taking advantage of these dips because they are smart to play with money and take returns from them but on the other side you always miss the opportunity to do so and blame bitcoin for it.

To contrary what you expected MicroStrategy has invested another $10 million to acquire additional 480 bitcoins to their reserves

And according to Michael Saylor's latest tweet, MicroStrategy keeps DCA-ing like everything is normal
They've just bought (yesterday) 480BTC so their total is around 129,699BTC and the average price is ~30,664$

So do market research about what you are writing and will advise you to read and have technical working of bitcoin and why people are investing in it and using this financial freedom tool with complete decentralisation and you will come to know the difference between legit and Ponzi schemes also.

[franky1]

Bitcoin going down by such a large amount has ENDED the dream of a lot of serious institutional money investing into Bitcoin.  No large institution is going to invest real money into Bitcoin now that it has crashed by more than 66 % in less than a year.

what is forgotten here is that its not a "coming down" from a stable/supported higher number (AKA crash) its actually a correction and stabilisation from going up very high the previous year from an unexpected amount that was not backed up by any underlying support

try to remember that the $70k was not the "norm" it was not the stable number that should have remained
the $70k was the premium temporary event, it was not the expectation

the expectation in 2020 of what 2021+ would bring was the $20k(based on the events of 2017-18) the $70k in 2021 was the exception..

[HardFacts]

To contrary what you expected MicroStrategy has invested another $10 million to acquire additional 480 bitcoins to their reserves

Michael Saylor's latest tweet[/url], MicroStrategy keeps DCA-ing like everything is normal
They've just bought (yesterday) 480BTC so their total is around 129,699BTC and the average price is ~30,664$

VERY GOOD EXAMPLE 

1.  Michael Saylor LIED about his Bitcoin gains multiple times on TV.  Michael Saylor Quoted his first major purchase price and called Bitcoin his best investment instead of admitting the investment was a 30 % LOSS, over 1 BILLOIN DOLLARS at the time.   Who needs to LIE to investors and the public to pump up his investment  

2.  MicroStrategy is NOT, NOT major institutional money.  They are a small fish in a very big sea.    The fact that you think MicroStrategy is " intuitional money " shows complete macro economic ignorance on your part.

3.  Micro Strategy borrowed to purchase its bitcoin, and will have a MARGIN CALL soon, and be forced to sell its Bitcoin at a huge loss.

IMPORTANT PREDICTION:   You and many others here will not let reality get in the way.  When MicroStrategy is bankrupt, you will be full of apologetic excuses.     

[franky1]

VERY GOOD EXAMPLE  

1.  Michael Saylor LIED about his Bitcoin gains multiple times on TV.  Michael Saylor Quoted his first major purchase price and called Bitcoin his best investment instead of admitting the investment was a 30 % LOSS, over 1 BILLOIN DOLLARS at the time.   Who needs to LIE to investors and the public to pump up his investment  

first purchase price was at ~$11.65k each.. hmm. seems he is doing well from that first deal

[HardFacts]

first purchase price was at ~$11.65k each.. hmm. seems he is doing well from that first deal

Exactly, Michael Saylor is doing great from the first deal, sounds really good doesn't it     You could sucker in a lot of fools with that statement....

The LIE is when Michael Saylor told investors and the public in an interview that MicroStrategy is doing great on the first amount of Bitcoin purchased at near 11,000...  But FAILING to disclose that his overall cost averaged investment is near 30,000 price point, and this his total Bitcoin investment is now at more than a 30 % LOSS, more than a billion dollar LOSS.

Franky1 comment is typical of the mental gymnastics, and downright dishonesty of most people in this forum  

WARNING for those reading that are rational investors that want accurate information.  When you see dishonesty and denial like this, do not walk away, RUN away from anything these type people are trying to sell.

[franky1]

hard facts major issue is that he thinks that the price he bought in at was where bitcoins supported and stable value was and that it then "crashed" unexpectedly(to him).. he thought it could/should have only gone higher.. and only ever gone higher

he does not realise prices can go up and down. its a waiting game.. not an instant win get rich quick thing..
no one gets to buy in at the perfect bottom and sell at the perfect top.. no one is that lucky. or psychic. FACT

but im going to emphasise this. he thinks that when the price was at the top he thought that was the stable supported number where the chances of crashing correcting down to the amount that it did, were very small.. not realising that the top was not supported and the chances of correcting down were significantly high chance.

what he does not realise is that the ATH was the PREMIUM .. the TOP. the temporary unexpected exception.. and that the price is now settling back down to the cheap value it should be at

he does not realise that prices are not predictable and they do go up and down.. somewhere between the top and bottom and no one can be a psychic to buy in at the perfect bottom and sell out at the perfect top. so what they do is buy in when they think its reasonable to buy in, accepting the risk:reward balance of their choice.. and WAIT, whether it be the next current cycles speculative hype(if they are lucky) or wait for the next cycle of a deflationary currency raise of the supported bottom to influence the value of the market to which then influences and brings the next cycles prices higher..  to sell.

hardfacts has the dis-illusion that when someone buys, they 'want' the price to go up after their buy. he doesnt realise there is an equal seller that 'wants' the price to go down after the sell. he doesnt realise that there are other people, thousands/millions with other price points on both sides. whereby the markets fluctuate due to this diverse mindset of many buyers and sellers sentiments at many price points between the top and bottom.

now for my funny thought part..
i think what hardfacts has got confused with. is that he was actually watching a music video when he should have been researching bitcoin/economics/markets. because i think when hardfacts was NOT researching economics/markets/ and basic trends, he was instead listening to "Yazz - the only way is up" and that song got stuck in his mind and influenced his buying decision at a higher price than this month.

maybe now is the point he does start researching economics.. or if he prefers listening to music videos.. try "Take That - patience"

[Betwrong]

~
its about finding the ultimate bottom.. the actual bottom cost they refuse and impossible to sell below.. . concentrating on the low/bottom
~

Alright, first off, Thank you for taking time to explain all of it with such thoroughness.

Can you please say what's in your opionion is the ultimate bottom for BTC? Yeah, I know it will be just your opinion, not a financial advice, but still it would be interesting to know your opinion on this matter.

~

And still your loaf of bread is terrible money and will get bad if you don’t use it in some productive way. That’s why it’s not used as money.

While Bitcoin is just amazing at being money, and that’s enough for being just money. How many times did you use fiat for other things than money? You can’t eat, drink or do anything with it. And yet still want it more than a loaf of bread, that’s the irony. You don’t even understand money and would still prefer it over an actual economic resource. Because you understand that money can acquire you any economic resource you want, and that’s the purpose of money. Enabling universal indirect trade.

There’s a difference between an economic resource and money. Money is non-productive by nature, while economic resources are. This means money is used to acquire, trade economic resources and make production happen, but not used to produce something directly. While economic resources are used in the opposite way. The good that can fulfill the function of money best, will become the dominant money, it’s that simple. It doesn’t matter if it’s usable in different ways itself or not, for its success as money.

Good point, mate! I was thinking on replying him, but then I read your reply. I couldn't do it better.

[franky1]

~
its about finding the ultimate bottom.. the actual bottom cost they refuse and impossible to sell below.. . concentrating on the low/bottom
~

Alright, first off, Thank you for taking time to explain all of it with such thoroughness.

Can you please say what's in your opionion is the ultimate bottom for BTC? Yeah, I know it will be just your opinion, not a financial advice, but still it would be interesting to know your opinion on this matter.

there are alot of stuff to go through..
but the value of a possible bottom can change not as violently as the price. but the underlying value can and does change.

some examples of factors that can change it in a downward direction
EG (extreme catastrophic event scenario(unlikely))
 if all hashrate was to die off today by a majority amount, for instance back to CPU hash mining speeds. where by costs go back to pennies. it would take time for the difficulty alterations to reflect that hashrate drop meaning those remaining mining would still have costs for a long while above pennies. it wont be an overnight 'zero' effect, it would take time even in a hashrate drop of magnitude scenario

EG in reasonable presumed normal events this change happens alot less.. unless alot of people look at the same metrics and then become the cause of changing it.

EG by giving out a ultimate bottom value.. below the price.. just causes people to react.. EG
shorters think although the price is higher then that number now.. that lower number can be achieved. so they sell to put a ask in at lower price.. thus causing a new dip..

also inefficient miners react to a dip by deciding to either get efficient to compete at that new lower level.sending the value number on a new direction..
 or drop off.. which can cause more reward for the remaining asics = more profit= more selling opportunity. again causing a dump. sending the number in a different direction

..

so all i will say is based on all miners on the planet. from iceland to japan range of costs.
those in japan would love to buy coin and hate to mine it. as their costs to mine are up neat the ATH 2021 level
so buying for them is extremely cheap option.
for the most efficient miners. they are not making huge gains. there is not much margin left right now. they are mining to hold or only selling off old coins from years back that are still in high gain area.. they are not selling coins mined this year while making huge profits off them

the PRICE inbetween that is speculative is in the cheap very valuable range right now its not in the premium


so calculate the value window for yourself and just gauge where the price is in regards to a simple "is it in cheap range near bottom or is it premium in range of top". just so you have an idea of if you want to buy or not.

the answer is.. the price is not at the $70k premium and so it must be cheap.
..
as for wanting spoonfed answer to an exact bottom VALUE. for emphasis: the bottom VALUE can move. due to many factors. as soon as a number is seen by a majority.. it would in fact end up being the cause of shifting that number.
so any number given, is outdated as soon as its given.

but right now, bar any catastrophy of a major code bug or world wide power outage, etc.. the price is in the very good very cheap value range near the bottom

[dezoel]

^^The reason why there are so many people who just listen to other people is a bit more about human nature. We always feel ingrained to pick a leader, even if you get like 10 people together then you pick a leader. The human nature is to look up to someone, and let "some" of your freedoms go and be decided by someone else.

This is a horrible knowledge that many would argue against, and even prove revolutionaries as examples, but even there we have leaders. Hence, the idea of "letting all the work go, relax, sit down watch some netflix shows and allow another dude to decide on my financial future" seems easy and natural to many people in the world.

[HardFacts]

^^The reason why there are so many people who just listen to other people is a bit more about human nature. We always feel ingrained to pick a leader, even if you get like 10 people together then you pick a leader. The human nature is to look up to someone, and let "some" of your freedoms go and be decided by someone else.

This is a horrible knowledge that many would argue against, and even prove revolutionaries as examples, but even there we have leaders. Hence, the idea of "letting all the work go, relax, sit down watch some netflix shows and allow another dude to decide on my financial future" seems easy and natural to many people in the world.

VERY WISE observation !!!   Unfortunate but true....

[JollyGood]

Well surely that same principle could be applied to many different financial models.... Sell it to make a profit or keep it. What is new in that?

You are wrong.... bitcoin does have as much intrinsic value as you would like to put on it. For example, what would you do with your $10, £10 or €10 notes if you could never sell them? By you alluding to bitcoin being some sort of ponzi scheme clearly indicates you have a very limited understanding of what bitcoin is.

I'm not an economist, but I still think that the "value" of something is what people are willing to pay for it at the moment. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You could resell a loaf of bread if you want and maybe make a profit.  You could also eat your loaf of bread if you do not want to re-sell it.


What would you do with your bitcoin if you could never sell it        NOTHING    That means it has zero intrinsic value.  The only value that Bitcoin has is what some greater fool will pay for it.