User: Unknown01 threatens me with a forum ban for saying my opinion

[NotATether]

There is more to those accounts, especially when I see the way they exchange positive ratings. It looks like someone is trying so hard to farm or manipulate the trust system using their alts.

Maybe they just placed a ~DefaultTrust inside their trust list. Because almost all of the users on that list are DT1.

[mole0815]

Well... I have also been threatened several times threads in meta and reputation if I do not moderate according to certain wishes.
And in which direction I " have to" moderate you explain me fortunately all constantly by any reproaches and also PNs.

I don't want to say anything about it because I
1) have been confronted with the issues raised here between group 1 and 2 for several months already,
a) already had to spend way too much time on it,
b) have already spent far too many nerves on it.

2) Is there no solution that satisfies you.

3) I see already the next (always and always repeating) reproaches pelting down on me because I dare to have my own opinion on the matter.

4) I can no longer read these incredibly long and repetitive statements. It is so tedious to follow the accusations when they are always cross-quoted, which in most of the texts are just repetitive sentences anyway.

At the end still something positive. Finally there is the right place to address some problems and the unnecessary threads in the German subboard are closed from now on. We should have done it much earlier but then it would have spread even worse to various other places.
Just a pity for the good mood we had in our little round but Corona and the current war split the society (unnecessary because we all sit in the same boat). I can't do anything about that and no matter how nice I try to be.... some people don't discuss anymore to win but just to force their own opinion on the rest and that's not OK.

Statistics since Friday. So this is what it looks like after 3 days here... do you think this is fun?




And no it's not nice that I have to deal with here all the time. Meanwhile the ( unnecessary ) moderation of your problems which you could carry out with pleasure privately eats up almost my complete time which I would rather use here for nice things.
Because I still say it. We are here because we all have one thing in common! Attitude to life? Hobby? Profession? Whatever... but here it is about the BTC (with all the gimmicks) and not about topics that anyway bring nothing to anyone except to satisfy their own ego.

thandie will Massenzensur
EU-Kommission will die Massenüberwachung
Corona
Deutsche Fehlerkultur
Corona, Russland vs. EU bzw. Amerika etc.

And if it goes on like this I ask theymos to close the German off-topic area completely. There is no censorship on Bitcointalk and you have to live with that.
But in the meantime it is enough.

P.S. To clarify. 1. I am neutral and I certainly won't be accused of that to the contrary and 2. I was and I am still in NO telegram group with the people involved here in the thread. That's a fact. Sure there have been several PNs with X users but that is no secret. These "group messages" here were from and in both directions/groups.

[NeuroticFish]

I think for the German-speaking board the moderator mole0815 is responsible, but here could be the real problem. If we go back to the facts, the following things stand out to me:

While mole0815 could be the one responsible of German board, the problem I was talking about is generic, hence I would have been preferring an answer from somebody who is not already fed up with the drama in German sub (and for good reason!).

Ignore button works, you all should use it. I know I read someone say they cannot ignore because some of the posts from whomever need a response, but that's not true. Just ignore and go on with life. Start reporting posts if you feel they're attacks or threats.

Other option is to pull out your dicks and do the measurement!!!!

  Interesting conclusion.
While Ignore is a great option, while I do recommend it for the sake of people's sanity, it's not the best option.
I do have my admiration for those who have the patience to counter and report the ones who fill the forum with garbage. We do need this kind of people too.


I see the army of trolls are all here now? I've seen lies, I've seen normal posts accused to be trolling, I see they want to enforce their alternate reality. Interesting.
One laughable argument I see repeated like a mantra is that this or that is disrespectful. Well, I want to tell that lying is even more disrespectful, so.. yeah..


@mole0815: I feel for you. On the other hand I am almost sure that all the bigger national communities face similar problems. How the others handle them?

[mole0815]

I feel for you. On the other hand I am almost sure that all the bigger national communities face similar problems. How the others handle them?

I saw the chaos growing bigger from the start and also arriving here at some point.
For this reason, I communicated the issue to my staff colleagues some time ago.

There is no general solution for different opinions. That's fine and Bitcointalk is good as it is.
But not everyone likes it and that's why they try with all their might to make the problems bigger and bigger instead of looking for a solution (together).

[1miau]

My opinion for colleagues here:
All the people present here are my witnesses that I offered a fair deal and wanted to let the German community decide. All up from senior member rank with minimum 10 earned merits from 5 different people in the last 3 months (actually I meant the last 120 days) would have been entitled to vote, but 1miau decides independently who is a Shitposter on the German board and who is not, and it mainly depends on who represents his opinion and who represents an opposing opinion. He knows that he doesn't have a chance and therefore doesn't get involved in a democratic vote and counters again with his standard statement: All Shitposter. So let's make it clear: All members on the German board are for 1miau from the rank of senior (or higher) with <50 merits are shitposters. Does the English community really see it that way? My proposed solution was simple and, in my opinion, fair and difficult to manipulate.

Just maybe you know that 10 (earned) Merit are basically nothing.  
I've not said that every account under 50 earned Merit is a shitposter, it's highly dependant on activity and registration date.
But for your bet it just sounds extremely shady. We can set it up with neutral conditions, with a neutral trusted user from DT1, not where you are manipulating the rules in your favour.  

Regarding your lies: you can repeat them 100 times, doesn't make them more true.
You can repeat your insults and defamations 100 times, doesn't make them more true.

Your disgusting behaviour and constant derailing of discussions with your lies is the problem, not us, calling it out

You were also called out by qwk in the German section, the most established German member
You were also called out by bullrun2020bro in the German section, another very constructive poster and insulted him with your lies!

Now, you are insulting Nestade, me and Newbies, what's next?

You are a disgrace for the German board! Get your shit together and stop acting like a child!

I'm busy right now and can't go into detail about the lies, but I'll make up for it in the next few days. I think it's best that a newbie account appears out of nowhere and is perfectly informed about all past events and even attacks mole... spectacular!

So in your opinion, an inactive account can appear out of nowhere with a newbie status and call other accounts swear words, tell them to move to Russia to eat Putin's ass and then make the worst accusations at the moderator?

YOU are the reason for this accusation by saying you were in a group with mole0815 and claiming you were speaking on his behalf.

Facts aren't something for Unknown01, he's living in his own fairy tale where a "harmonious community" is, where breaking forum rules is allowed, misusing positive trust is allowed, insulting Newbies is tolerated, derailing discussions is a standard and spreading lies is totally normal.

It's so sad that these people like Unknown01 are not self-reflecting at all that their behaviour is causing huge damages to the forum.
Yes, they are not only contributing nothing, they are also damaging Bitcointalk actively.

There is more to those accounts, especially when I see the way they exchange positive ratings. It looks like someone is trying so hard to farm or manipulate the trust system using their alts.

Maybe they just placed a ~DefaultTrust inside their trust list. Because almost all of the users on that list are DT1.

Not sure but it would be something to investigate.
At least for @thandie I can say, that it's a highly customized trust list and the most interesting part on his trust list are his inclusions of active trolls from local sections such like

~wolwoo
~vispilio
~be.open



https://loyce.club/trust/2022-04-23_Sat_05.05h/334684.html

And if it goes on like this I ask theymos to close the German off-topic area completely.

That would be very sad but it's your decision.

We all know who the contributors are and who's just here to post nonsense every time, who's always starting the shitshow.
Quite a lot of members have contributed a lot to our local board like qwk, bullrun2020bro or Lafu etc, just to mention a few,
Everyone can check the account and look up created topics. Discussions have been very productive until suddenly, some troll accounts woke out of nothing.

We have clear rules on the forum and trolling is against the rules, off-topic is against the rules. Creating new threads about already discussed topics, just to get more views is against the rules. All of it is rule 1.

I have been in contact with Lafu, he's still sometimes acive on the German section.
We are all not amused with Unknown01's and his friends behaviour.
I haven't ever seen low-quality posters being so aggressive (and I've seen a lot). Normally, we would expect a "plz, Sir, don't damage my account, it's important for earn".
But Unknown01 is completely delusional.

I'm sure, you have found a good solution because closing the German board completely would be very sad.  

I do have my admiration for those who have the patience to counter and report the ones who fill the forum with garbage. We do need this kind of people too.

Same here, some reporters are doing a very important job and dedicating ther time to clean the forum from spam. Some have several 10k reports.
I'm doing my best to clean up the German board and also some violating posts in the international part when I come over them but I'm still at 1k reports.  

Big kudos to all reporters here!

Because when violating posts are getting deleted frequently, the producers will (hopefully) stop posting similar posts.

[Halab]

OK Mole, I understand the situation in the German section a little better now. I envy your reports (because I am a greedy person), but I don't envy your place .

@German keyboard warriors : the only thing you will agree is that you will never agree and you won't change your mind. Why waste your (and our) time ? IRL if your neighbor/parents/friends/colleagues doesn't agree with you, will you do everything to make him change his mind ?

Other option is to pull out your dicks and do the measurement!!!!

Good idea. I thought of a duel with end at first blood (we are not barbarians). Or the IQ test thing... that was a joke, but it's not so stupid.
Maybe in a few years, with metaverses, virtual reality helmets, a super AI, if you're too dumb... bzzzzz... brain burned. Problem solved .*

* If you take my sentence seriously and didn't see the little touch of humor/sarcasm, you are definitely too stupid and deserve to have your brain burned.

[Unknown01]

OK Mole, I understand the situation in the German section a little better now. I envy your reports (because I am a greedy person), but I don't envy your place .

@German keyboard warriors : the only thing you will agree is that you will never agree and you won't change your mind. Why waste your (and our) time ? IRL if your neighbor/parents/friends/colleagues doesn't agree with you, will you do everything to make him change his mind ?

We've pointed out the ignore function dozens of times, but instead of using it we've had neutral trust entries and threats that the accounts that post against their opinion will be reported in the reputation thread... Quite apart from that, we‘ve been insulted every day by these trolls. I don't know how many months 1miau has now been ignored by me and yet he still quotes me daily(!). He has no interest in making peace. Otherwise the problem would have been solved long ago, because I haven't reacted to his posts for months. Well, your suggestion is great, but unfortunately it doesn't work on one side as long as everyone else is still being attacked (and as I said, he’s on a lot of ignore lists and still attacks the persons).

I think all of my colleagues will agree that if 1miau and Nestade agree to ignore us all without ever mentioning us other again, the problem would be solved forever.
I don't know who they will be able to interact with afterwards (since they argue with pretty much everyone in the German community) but I don't care. 

[NeuroticFish]

we‘ve been insulted every day

Insulting is not against forum rules. Trolling is. You (and your friends) keep insisting on insulting like it would be an offense, while it's not.
In the same way you insist others ignore you (and hence leave you alone) if they don't share your views, you can also do the same about them, especially if you feel so much insulted.

[Yawa2020]

Although I'm still new to the forum and I might not know some few things yet but nevertheless, threatening people with ban especially the new comers is absolutely wrong no matter how much they differ from your opinion. As for @unknown01 you should have justified your claims as he requested instead of threatening him. And for OP, I will suggest you report to moderator when next such thing happens so that the issue can be resolved amicably. However, I don't actually subscribe to this idea of making a thread in order to maintain our reputation.

[1miau]

We've pointed out the ignore function dozens of times, but instead of using it we've had neutral trust entries and threats that the accounts that post against their opinion will be reported in the reputation thread...

That's not true, we have sent you and MinoRaiola a PM that you and your friends used positive trust and that it's not how positive trust is intended to use.
You used a positive trust to counter my neutral trust and you circled meaningless positive trust with your friends.
We wanted to solve it in a civil manner before addressing it in Reputation, so we sent a PM.
We received insults back as an answer.  
Lafu added an entry in our German DT thread.  
No reaction from your side!  
DT is a decentralized network, is that so hard to understand for you? Issues will be brought up and DT decides if that's appropriate use of trust or not.
We are presenting our evidence, DT is reviewing our evidence.
Without derailing discussions!

And the decision from DT hast to be accepted!

Quite apart from that, we‘ve been insulted every day by these trolls. I don't know how many months 1miau has now been ignored by me and yet he still quotes me daily(!).

Your trust list is not my issue!
So you want to forbid that I reply to people where I'm on the ignore list?  
I'm free to read all posts, I'm free to reply to all posts!

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

You and your colleagues (Unknown01, thandie, MinoRaiola, s0nix, Poly#Crypto and Beobachter_90) have been shitposting for a long time (from time to time) and not "only in the last few days".

Assuming you are team one and Unknown01 side is team two. The following applies for both team to restore peace.

When you see a shitpost, report it to local moderator. If he removes it then it's a shitpost. If he does not then it's fine. It may still look shitpost to you but he is a man and the forum also gave him right to judge a report before removing it. Whatever you get from the report, be happy and move on. Use the report button, it's there for you always.

Merit can be sent to anyone and admin does not mind. As long as they are not misusing source merit (if anyone from them) then there are no problem. If anyone is using source merit as misuse form then theymos will remove the merit source. Any such case for a merit source can be reported to admin.

Anyone is using trust feedback to favour their own interest, use "~" before their name in your trust setting page.

Finally ignore button really helps. If anyone is quoting you, talking wrong against you, let them continue. They will stop once there will not have any reply in it from you.

Unknown01 vs 1miau

I still have my popcorn, it's delicious 😂

[1miau]

We've pointed out the ignore function dozens of times, but instead of using it we've had neutral trust entries and threats that the accounts that post against their opinion will be reported in the reputation thread...

That's not true, we have sent you and MinoRaiola a PM that you and your friends used positive trust and that it's not how positive trust is intended to use.
You used a positive trust to counter my neutral trust and you circled meaningless positive trust with your friends.
We wanted to solve it in a civil manner before addressing it in Reputation, so we sent a PM.
We received insults back as an answer.  
Lafu added an entry in our German DT thread.  
No reaction from your side!  

This is very important to read from Lafu because Lafu has deep understanding of how DT is working. Lafu is even rankend higher in DT than I.
I've translated Lafu's statement, it was originally posted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192157.msg59859488#msg59859488

After reading some posts and threads recently, I unfortunately had to realize that many still have not understood "the feedback system".
Maybe some old and new users should read again the use of trust and feedback more carefully, these two things are often confused or misunderstood.
The worst thing someone can do is to give someone a positive feedback based on a negative or neutral feedback he got from another user.
Just because you don't like the feedback a user got, it is inappropriate to give positive or negative feedback to that user.
Such a thing is also known as " Counter Feedback " and not how DT is intended to use.

Of course, everyone can do what he wants and I do not want to dictate what he has to do, but it may well be that if a misbehaviour and the exploitation,
of the positive feeback for wrong or not fair things is known that more users from the DT 1 will look into this.
What can arise from this, we had years ago already times in the META area, then it rains negative feedback and the dispute escalates.
Honestly, I have no desire that we get the same here in the German area also or make.

Therefore, my appeal to all that you should be clear what feedback and trust means and how it is applied or should be.
This is my neutral opinion on the current situation and what I have read.
Hope that this may give some users an impetus to think and the trust and feedback system may be understood correctly.

I still have my popcorn, it's delicious 😂

But no need to order new one because mole0815 acted already.
Hopefully, the dust will settle now, DT will judge and at least we've had a funny discussion here. 

[Unknown01]

Unknown01 vs 1miau

I still have my popcorn, it's delicious 😂

I would also recommend a beer with the popcorn. 


@Yawa2020: I wonder if I can't express myself? I didn't threaten anyone with a ban (explained several times above) so please the next one who says ban again buys me a beer, without alcohol it's no longer bearable 

we‘ve been insulted every day

Insulting is not against forum rules. Trolling is. You (and your friends) keep insisting on insulting like it would be an offense, while it's not.
In the same way you insist others ignore you (and hence leave you alone) if they don't share your views, you can also do the same about them, especially if you feel so much insulted.

so it's allowed to insult others in the forum, e.g. if I told you now go and lick XY's ass or you're a pig or not a human, interesting that that's okay.

[NeuroticFish]

e.g. if I told you now go and lick XY's ass or you're a pig or not a human, interesting that that's okay.

The way you're talking usually tells a lot about yourself. First post of yours in this topic you were lying, now this. This is the picture you're offering.
Interesting that 5 years and 3700 posts on this forums and you didn't care about its rules.

[1miau]

so it's allowed to insult others in the forum, e.g. if I told you now go and lick XY's ass or you're a pig or not a human, interesting that that's okay.

It might get removed (trolling), similar to spam, there are rules:

The list is somewhat complete but I will still be adding rules as I encounter them. I'm open to suggestions on formatting, sources, mistakes, rules, removal from the list, etc.

Forum rules

1. No zero or low value, pointless or uninteresting posts or threads. [1][e]

2. No off-topic posts.

3. No trolling.


Examples:

1. Such posts as "SELL SELL SELL", "I agree", "+1", "Support", "Watching", "Interesting", "LOL", "SCAM", "LEGIT", "FAKE", other one word posts, posts consisting mostly of swearing, quote pyramids, useless introduction threads, threads about a topic already recently discussed in several other threads.

The most important thing is: people should have self-awareness and stop derailing discussions.
As far as I know, you and your spam friends are always starting the clown show and then, you are acting surprised when your bullshit is debunked!


Did you read the statement from Lafu?
I guess no because you have me already on ignore again?

That's your issue!
You are not willing to learn, not willing to admit the mistakes like your trust circling, so don't act surprised when it's presented on Reputation, dude!

[MinoRaiola]

@1miau this is the first time I've writing to you since a long time: you are so sure that you are right, so here is my offer to you: I will put down my signature if more than 50% of the German established community (at least 10 merits in the last 3 months from 5 different people and at least senior member rank) support your view that your trust entry was justified and I'm a shitposter, but if more than 50% don't agree, then you put your signature down! Deal?

It seems to be a very fair deal and like in a democracy the majority decides, you're for democracy right?  

I would go along with that deal, sounds fair to me. I'll put down my signature as well. If the community feels that this will promote quality and make it better, then we can do this. Let's go 1miau, it's your turn.

Maybe we should allow a period of time for the decision?

I would also recommend a beer with the popcorn. 

I prefer to eat a good steak and of course something nice to drink... not really a beer for me.

[Unknown01]

e.g. if I told you now go and lick XY's ass or you're a pig or not a human, interesting that that's okay.

The way you're talking usually tells a lot about yourself. First post of yours in this topic you were lying, now this. This is the picture you're offering.
Interesting that 5 years and 3700 posts on this forums and you didn't care about its rules.

I'm really starting to think that you don't understand me because of my articulation? These swear words are statements by 1miau and his colleagues that were used against us and I ask you if this is actually allowed in the forum? I don't think so, but you meant that swearing is allowed.

My statements have already been confirmed by 3 other Legendary/Hero's (MinoRaiola, thandie, s0nix) so I don't know if I'm really that wrong here.

[1miau]

@1miau this is the first time I've writing to you since a long time: you are so sure that you are right, so here is my offer to you: I will put down my signature if more than 50% of the German established community (at least 10 merits in the last 3 months from 5 different people and at least senior member rank) support your view that your trust entry was justified and I'm a shitposter, but if more than 50% don't agree, then you put your signature down! Deal?

It seems to be a very fair deal and like in a democracy the majority decides, you're for democracy right? 

I would go along with that deal, sounds fair to me. I'll put down my signature as well. If the community feels that this will promote quality and make it better, then we can do this. Let's go 1miau, it's your turn.

Why not choosing neutral conditions, the conditions are known:

My opinion for colleagues here:
All the people present here are my witnesses that I offered a fair deal and wanted to let the German community decide. All up from senior member rank with minimum 10 earned merits from 5 different people in the last 3 months (actually I meant the last 120 days) would have been entitled to vote, but 1miau decides independently who is a Shitposter on the German board and who is not, and it mainly depends on who represents his opinion and who represents an opposing opinion. He knows that he doesn't have a chance and therefore doesn't get involved in a democratic vote and counters again with his standard statement: All Shitposter. So let's make it clear: All members on the German board are for 1miau from the rank of senior (or higher) with <50 merits are shitposters. Does the English community really see it that way? My proposed solution was simple and, in my opinion, fair and difficult to manipulate.

Just maybe you know that 10 (earned) Merit are basically nothing. 
I've not said that every account under 50 earned Merit is a shitposter, it's highly dependant on activity and registration date.
But for your bet it just sounds extremely shady. We can set it up with neutral conditions, with a neutral trusted user from DT1, not where you are manipulating the rules in your favour. 

e.g. if I told you now go and lick XY's ass or you're a pig or not a human, interesting that that's okay.

The way you're talking usually tells a lot about yourself. First post of yours in this topic you were lying, now this. This is the picture you're offering.
Interesting that 5 years and 3700 posts on this forums and you didn't care about its rules.

+1
This!

I'm really starting to think that you don't understand me because of my articulation? These swear words are statements by 1miau and his colleagues that were used against us and I ask you if this is actually allowed in the forum? I don't think so, but you meant that swearing is allowed.

Stop twisting my words, I said it's inhuman to support the russian invasion against Ukraine and Putin's ass lickers should go visit the bombed cities in Ukraine that they are getting an impression what's happening there.
Your problem is: you don't like it to be called out for your Kremlin troll posts. 
That's your issue! 
Yes, we will keep debunking your inhuman nonsense. 
Don't you think it's not completely inhuman that Putin is bombing whole cities and destroys lives?

You are so delusional!

But what do I expect from someone who's proud to have people like Poly#Crypto on their side, a BADecker or be.open level troll: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5386945.msg60450501#msg60450501
It's already archived!

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[mole0815]

Insulting is not against forum rules. Trolling is. You (and your friends) keep insisting on insulting like it would be an offense, while it's not.
In the same way you insist others ignore you (and hence leave you alone) if they don't share your views, you can also do the same about them, especially if you feel so much insulted.

But there are different views from when something is declared as an insult and / or trolls.

That's where the problems start, because there is also rule 23, for example, but no matter how hard you try - impossible to make it right for everyone.

In addition, it is just as forbidden to make double posts, to report the same post again and again (until you get the desired result) or to post deleted texts again.
And what happens? All of the above.
So if you take it very strictly, probably all users who were named/shown here have already violated several times against various rules.

My suggestion which has already been mentioned several times and would also help 100%: Everyone looks for the 2-5 users with whom he has a problem, clicks on Ignore and leaves it at that. Easy.

@all
Here will be no end what makes all of you happy. But maybe the Ignore function.
I am now really out of here again because actually I was on vacation to be able to do the pending tasks properly. And now? I come back recovered and have to spend directly again X hours with topics that I actually do not want to have in my life.

@1miau
It is not fair now to bring various other names into the game to give the impression that everyone has a problem with various users.
Who has something to say should comment here please itself.
Because I also do not write here all XX users with whom I already had discussions because of the happenings in the German area. Neither pro nor contra team 1, 2 or a, b.

[NeuroticFish]

But there are different views from when something is declared as an insult and / or trolls.

That's correct.

That's where the problems start, because there is also rule 23, for example, but no matter how hard you try - impossible to make it right for everyone.

I keep telling the users: when you're not sure, report it and leave the mod interpret the rules as he thinks. Nobody's perfect.

In addition, it is just as forbidden to make double posts, to report the same post again and again (until you get the desired result) or to post deleted texts again.
And what happens? All of the above.
So if you take it very strictly, probably all users who were named/shown here have already violated several times against various rules.

  so true

My suggestion which has already been mentioned several times and would also help 100%: Everyone looks for the 2-5 users with whom he has a problem, clicks on Ignore and leaves it at that. Easy.

Indeed, if one feels it's too much, then ignore is the best approach.
And if he can still handle and didn't ignore, then report what can be reported

I am now really out of here again because actually I was on vacation to be able to do the pending tasks properly. And now? I come back recovered and have to spend directly again X hours with topics that I actually do not want to have in my life.

Ouch! Maybe you take it slow/easy then for now. Time uses to solve this in a way or another.
It can end with both sides chill, it can end with death threats (hence proper ammo for actual sanctions). Maybe I should not have been saying this...