[CHESS] FIDE Candidates Chess Tournament 2022

[Lucasgabd]

another thing to take into account when comparing the way computers play is their accuracy is usually much higher
and sometimes they make moves that makes no sense for humans because it's the most accurate move.

quite interesting subject

[Boristhecat]

Have you seen this video? The most incriminating evidence against Hans Niemann

I was sure that cheating could not be hidden at a distance and that sooner or later there would be more good reasons to consider Niemann a cheater than suspicion. And in fact it happened. You can watch later clips from this channel - now everyone is intensively checking all available games for correlation with computer moves, but no one has even a close result like Niemann's.

I think that Magnus Carlsen openly accused Niemann of cheating based on these data as well. Now the ball is on the side of Niemann and in the coming days we should expect some statements from him.

[Lucasgabd]

interesting video Boristhecat
seems like it goes in a way I mentioned here before
no human player has 100% accuracy on their games
computers usually "think" in a slightly different way than humans.

[Boristhecat]

interesting video Boristhecat
seems like it goes in a way I mentioned here before
no human player has 100% accuracy on their games
computers usually "think" in a slightly different way than humans.

This is a completely different assessment than the accuracy that everyone is used to playing on chess.com. As I understand it, this is an assessment of moves relative to existing chess engines. The cheater doesn't have to play as the latest version of Stockfish, he can use a less advanced version or DeepFritz or Rybka etc. This evaluation checks the moves against any engine, so a smart cheater who uses different engines will still be caught.
And the peculiarity is that only those moves are analyzed here where the chess player is obliged to think independently - theoretical opening moves are excluded from the analysis, as well as forced moves.
And so now it turns out that the top grandmasters in their entire career can find at most one game close to 80-90 in their games, while Niemann has a dozen 100% games and a dozen 90% games in a few years.
In terms of mathematics, he is 100% a cheater.

[LUCKMCFLY]

<snip...>

Again, evidence is king. Even if a person has been previously convicted of a crime, that does not entirely mean that they would do the same. Until the camp of Magnus presents solid proof and evidence of Hans cheating on the over-the-board tournament, the fact still remains that this has definitely took a toll to his reputation.

Let us just wait until they release more evidence in proving the cheating that Hans did. While I do respect Magnus, this is the time that he must present solid proof that will substantiate his claim against Hans cheating.

While I agree with you we must also understand that the kind of standards that are necessary in a court of law in order to prove the culpability of a suspect are not necessarily the standards that are going to be used on every other single instance we can find, it is known that computers play differently than the way humans do and this is because they think about chess in a different way, humans find patterns and reduce the possible moves that they can make thanks to their experience, computers just evaluate hundreds of millions of moves per second, this means that computers can make some very weird moves that humans do not understand, so if the top expert in the world of chess says there is something fishy then most likely there is something there.

I understand your point
but it's worth remembering that we live in really weird times nowadays with cancellation culture at its peak
I still think that we should have evidences to condemn someone for a crime....

I also understand this, but how can it be shown that a computer game can be differentiated from a human one? if a human was the one who created the algorithm, and gives it life through the situations that arise, then for me it is difficult to say that it is a computer when I know that there are people who are very enlightened and see very strange plays and end up winning the game with that move, and although it is very rare, the move is the most effective, in fact I think that any player knows that a human being when concentrating could see many moves, up to 6, 7 in advance and that is in the normal parameters , a chess master imagines that he will see 10 moves or more, maybe that is the advantage, just as a computer will be able to see the same or a little more.

interesting video Boristhecat
seems like it goes in a way I mentioned here before
no human player has 100% accuracy on their games
computers usually "think" in a slightly different way than humans.

This is a completely different assessment than the accuracy that everyone is used to playing on chess.com. As I understand it, this is an assessment of moves relative to existing chess engines. The cheater doesn't have to play as the latest version of Stockfish, he can use a less advanced version or DeepFritz or Rybka etc. This evaluation checks the moves against any engine, so a smart cheater who uses different engines will still be caught.
And the peculiarity is that only those moves are analyzed here where the chess player is obliged to think independently - theoretical opening moves are excluded from the analysis, as well as forced moves.
And so now it turns out that the top grandmasters in their entire career can find at most one game close to 80-90 in their games, while Niemann has a dozen 100% games and a dozen 90% games in a few years.
In terms of mathematics, he is 100% a cheater.

Well according to all this, then it means that if several AIs are combined, it is possible for them to develop the perfect game? There will never be the human side that can get out of the usual or what we always call following the rules to reach a goal? Maybe it's what we've all always wanted to have, but now an AI doesn't give us a chance at anything, of course the man who uses it is obviously cheating, but I imagine that in all the platforms that it is for one to practice, play chess, we are playing against those processors, I think that these machines are very powerful, but even so I think that human thought can do a lot plus.

[Lucasgabd]

interesting @Boristhecat
so we got a confirmation

@LUCKMCFLY
just a fun fact
some say chess GMs aren't necessarily the best at memorizing and thinking many moves ahead, they're way better at analyzing the current position and figuring out what is the best move available

they also scan the board and think about what is the structure they want the board to be while the game develops.

[Boristhecat]

This is a completely different assessment than the accuracy that everyone is used to playing on chess.com. As I understand it, this is an assessment of moves relative to existing chess engines. The cheater doesn't have to play as the latest version of Stockfish, he can use a less advanced version or DeepFritz or Rybka etc. This evaluation checks the moves against any engine, so a smart cheater who uses different engines will still be caught.
And the peculiarity is that only those moves are analyzed here where the chess player is obliged to think independently - theoretical opening moves are excluded from the analysis, as well as forced moves.
And so now it turns out that the top grandmasters in their entire career can find at most one game close to 80-90 in their games, while Niemann has a dozen 100% games and a dozen 90% games in a few years.
In terms of mathematics, he is 100% a cheater.

Well according to all this, then it means that if several AIs are combined, it is possible for them to develop the perfect game? There will never be the human side that can get out of the usual or what we always call following the rules to reach a goal? Maybe it's what we've all always wanted to have, but now an AI doesn't give us a chance at anything, of course the man who uses it is obviously cheating, but I imagine that in all the platforms that it is for one to practice, play chess, we are playing against those processors, I think that these machines are very powerful, but even so I think that human thought can do a lot plus.

Yes, any modern chess program is better than any human, so even if you do not use it for the entire match and sometimes peep some moves, you will get a huge advantage over any human player.

interesting @Boristhecat
so we got a confirmation

There are more and more confirmations every day. Here is new work from a professional statistician and data engineer:
TOP URGENT! Strong EVIDENCE of CHEATING has been found on NIEMANN's Controversy

To be honest, I don’t understand what Niemann was counting on when he started cheating? Chess is a completely calculated game, therefore, having all his games in the history (as well as any other chess player), it is impossible to hide the fact of cheating - some statistical parameter will give you away.

[Lucasgabd]

I think he did it for a similar reason scammers use crypto to commit crimes and sometimes are caught due to the permanent nature of blockchains.
He probably didn't think he would be caught
and was pursuing the drill that comes with status of being a winner, even by using these methods

sad to see

[South Park]

To be honest, I don’t understand what Niemann was counting on when he started cheating? Chess is a completely calculated game, therefore, having all his games in the history (as well as any other chess player), it is impossible to hide the fact of cheating - some statistical parameter will give you away.

He probably did it for the very same reason that we see cheating on sports, very quickly people realize that the only ones that get any attention are the top performers and they earn way more money than the rest of their peers, and they also realize they have no chance of reaching that level, they are good but they are not that good, so they see in cheating a way to try to get to their goal, but they forget that no matter how good they are at hiding what they are doing they are going to eventually get caught.

[dothebeats]

I think he did it for a similar reason scammers use crypto to commit crimes and sometimes are caught due to the permanent nature of blockchains.
He probably didn't think he would be caught
and was pursuing the drill that comes with status of being a winner, even by using these methods

sad to see

Or he just wanted to be famous for the wrong and obviously flawed reasons. Everything this guy does, whether on stream or OTB tournaments scream attention-seeking, most recently with that "chess speaks for itself" comment. Dude can't get recognized with his own abilities wherein Magnus is the superstar, so he decided to meme his way into the chess elite scene, and he can only do it by cheating. He may have reached GM status after several years but the fact remains that he's a weak player that cannot even explain variations and give analysis on what he just played.

[Lucasgabd]

I think he did it for a similar reason scammers use crypto to commit crimes and sometimes are caught due to the permanent nature of blockchains.
He probably didn't think he would be caught
and was pursuing the drill that comes with status of being a winner, even by using these methods

sad to see

Or he just wanted to be famous for the wrong and obviously flawed reasons. Everything this guy does, whether on stream or OTB tournaments scream attention-seeking, most recently with that "chess speaks for itself" comment. Dude can't get recognized with his own abilities wherein Magnus is the superstar, so he decided to meme his way into the chess elite scene, and he can only do it by cheating. He may have reached GM status after several years but the fact remains that he's a weak player that cannot even explain variations and give analysis on what he just played.

interesting point of view
so you think the guy's mind could be so twisted he'd want to be known for... cheating?
that's quite messed up

ethics level going below ground

[Boristhecat]

To be honest, I don’t understand what Niemann was counting on when he started cheating? Chess is a completely calculated game, therefore, having all his games in the history (as well as any other chess player), it is impossible to hide the fact of cheating - some statistical parameter will give you away.

He probably did it for the very same reason that we see cheating on sports, very quickly people realize that the only ones that get any attention are the top performers and they earn way more money than the rest of their peers, and they also realize they have no chance of reaching that level, they are good but they are not that good, so they see in cheating a way to try to get to their goal, but they forget that no matter how good they are at hiding what they are doing they are going to eventually get caught.

Yes, in the end it all comes down to making a profit. Niemann has cheated in 10 cash prize tournaments, and chess.com is ready to defend this point of view in court (since they published their report). It surprises me that after such a scandal, there are still no sanctions from FIDE - they just created a commission to determine if he cheated in games over the board.

Confirmed swindler, thief and scum without any problems participates in the US Chess Championship.
By the way, today there will be an interesting game between Niemann and Caruana https://www.uschesschamps.com/2022-us-championships/pairings-results

[qwertyup23]

To be honest, I don’t understand what Niemann was counting on when he started cheating? Chess is a completely calculated game, therefore, having all his games in the history (as well as any other chess player), it is impossible to hide the fact of cheating - some statistical parameter will give you away.

He probably did it for the very same reason that we see cheating on sports, very quickly people realize that the only ones that get any attention are the top performers and they earn way more money than the rest of their peers, and they also realize they have no chance of reaching that level, they are good but they are not that good, so they see in cheating a way to try to get to their goal, but they forget that no matter how good they are at hiding what they are doing they are going to eventually get caught.

Yes, in the end it all comes down to making a profit. Niemann has cheated in 10 cash prize tournaments, and chess.com is ready to defend this point of view in court (since they published their report). It surprises me that after such a scandal, there are still no sanctions from FIDE - they just created a commission to determine if he cheated in games over the board.

Confirmed swindler, thief and scum without any problems participates in the US Chess Championship.
By the way, today there will be an interesting game between Niemann and Caruana https://www.uschesschamps.com/2022-us-championships/pairings-results

When COVID hit, I think that it was the time that he executed the opportunity of cheating. Lots of sports and companies slowly shifted to that kind of setup and security was not that stringent compared now. Given that most sports/companies have adapted to this kind of setting, they now have all the means of security in detecting these kinds of cheats.

What Niemann and the other cheaters did is just a disgrace to Chess. More importantly, he cheated on multiple tournaments that involved cashed prizes. I wonder what kind of prohibition and ban would Niemann get and the other FM-GMs as well.

Anyway, I do seriously recommend the game that transpired between Magnus and Korobov!

[Zackgeno96]

There are many rumors that a chess player has cheated on the world champion Magnus Carlsen. That incident happened in the winter last year, I think. After that they played against each other online again and then Carlsen stopped the game after 1 move. That is going to get a tail, I think an official investigation has now also been launched into these parties of the German player. Chess cheating is a big deal, and you can't always close it all the way for all players. I hope Firouzja will be the new challenger to Carlsen, other opponents don't stand a chance as we saw last year.

[usekevin]

Chess is the like by the people all around the world.As the people interest was huge,their was the World Championship for chess also.Carlson was my opinion to win the game,surely I will vote for the Carlson.If the win is based on the voting.But the voting is considered on the draw match.So you think the game will be draw between this two big players.And you had involved the the Chess.com.I had played huge game in that website,it was unique chess website and it had applications for even IPAD.The game and website will be created to increase the popularity about that game.When the game was famous all over the world already,they will create a application for the same.Aliza was the good players with huge strategy,when you are beginner.You should see the old matches of Aliza to know whom he is.You can also guide the less knowledge people .

[famososMuertos]

Cheating in chess. this is a surprise!, really!

I think the real question is is this cheating in Chess new or have they evolved, well, whoever reads a bit of history and reads some of the most memorable games of at least the last 100 years you can find countless tricks that are done in chess to have an advantage, some are embarrassing, covered by a certain bureaucracy of the game that prevents them from being called cheats.

Now, reading the level of technology involved or what are believed to be used, so amazing! well, these are the most astute people on the planet, anyway, the controversy is something that has surrounded the world championships and the world champions in the history of this sport.

In short, if Niemann lies, only time from now on will prove him right, because if he is so good, he should be constant to win, so the current world champion who is "crying" and rightfully so, only has to face him, he achieved goal to expose it publicly, now that chess dictates who is the best... no traps.

[Lucasgabd]

There are many rumors that a chess player has cheated on the world champion Magnus Carlsen. That incident happened in the winter last year, I think. After that they played against each other online again and then Carlsen stopped the game after 1 move. That is going to get a tail, I think an official investigation has now also been launched into these parties of the German player. Chess cheating is a big deal, and you can't always close it all the way for all players. I hope Firouzja will be the new challenger to Carlsen, other opponents don't stand a chance as we saw last year.

do you know how?
just curious but anyone can start a rumor
when explaining it things start to take a different shape

are players allowed to take breaks to go to the bathroom on these huge games?

[Boristhecat]

Yes, in the end it all comes down to making a profit. Niemann has cheated in 10 cash prize tournaments, and chess.com is ready to defend this point of view in court (since they published their report). It surprises me that after such a scandal, there are still no sanctions from FIDE - they just created a commission to determine if he cheated in games over the board.

Confirmed swindler, thief and scum without any problems participates in the US Chess Championship.
By the way, today there will be an interesting game between Niemann and Caruana https://www.uschesschamps.com/2022-us-championships/pairings-results

When COVID hit, I think that it was the time that he executed the opportunity of cheating. Lots of sports and companies slowly shifted to that kind of setup and security was not that stringent compared now. Given that most sports/companies have adapted to this kind of setting, they now have all the means of security in detecting these kinds of cheats.

What Niemann and the other cheaters did is just a disgrace to Chess. More importantly, he cheated on multiple tournaments that involved cashed prizes. I wonder what kind of prohibition and ban would Niemann get and the other FM-GMs as well.

Anyway, I do seriously recommend the game that transpired between Magnus and Korobov!

The data shows that Niemann began to cheat long before covid. As for the ban, the paradox is that the online competitions in which he cheated were not held under the auspices of FIDE, and there is no evidence (there is no direct evidence, there are indirect ones, but this is not enough for "legal" actions) that he cheated over the board.
Thus the swindler and thief (who was caught and admitted it) continues to participate in FIDE competitions. I am simply shocked by this nonsense and impotence of FIDE officials.
To be fair, we should admit that FIDE behaved this way towards cheaters for a long time - they catch only the most impudent ones who don't even try to hide. For example, Rasius, about whom absolutely everyone knew that he was a cheater, but he cheated for several years without any problems despite the complaints of his rivals.

[Lucasgabd]

oh, that sucks Boristhecat
and I understand how frustrating it can be

though when it comes to law there's presumption of innocence, so I'm really not sure what could be done in a situation like that.

[LUCKMCFLY]

I think he did it for a similar reason scammers use crypto to commit crimes and sometimes are caught due to the permanent nature of blockchains.
He probably didn't think he would be caught
and was pursuing the drill that comes with status of being a winner, even by using these methods

sad to see

Or he just wanted to be famous for the wrong and obviously flawed reasons. Everything this guy does, whether on stream or OTB tournaments scream attention-seeking, most recently with that "chess speaks for itself" comment. Dude can't get recognized with his own abilities wherein Magnus is the superstar, so he decided to meme his way into the chess elite scene, and he can only do it by cheating. He may have reached GM status after several years but the fact remains that he's a weak player that cannot even explain variations and give analysis on what he just played.

interesting point of view
so you think the guy's mind could be so twisted he'd want to be known for... cheating?
that's quite messed up

ethics level going below ground

That is actually very disturbing for what we are used to seeing, reaching victory through an easy path full of traps is not something worthy, of course this from the most loyal point of view of the sport and above all respect for all chess players of the world, I know that robots, programs are very advanced and have most of the moves recorded, they can even give solutions based on what is most logical for them, but I think that a human in his thinking is still superior to a bot, because the human being still continues to give many solutions by going out and breaking every scheme, breaking every apparent logic, and that is a very human characteristic.