According to Sam Bankman-Fried, some Bitcoin exchanges are insolvent

[bbc.reporter]

Does Sam Bankman-Fried's statement imply that the cryptospace not seen the bottom of this bear market? I am shaking my head because everyone who was going to capitulate appears to have capitulated already.

Three Arrows Capital  just defaulted, there is still pain to be inflicted
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/crypto-crash-three-arrow-capital-default-voyager-670-million-loan-2022-6

As for Sam, this guy has been turning in some kind of undertaker, every single time lately that there is something bad happening there is talk about liquidation, bankruptcy, or taking over assets his name is mentioned there, I have a bad feeling  about his own business, there were some shady doings behind the scenes with Terra and as more and more info appears seems like he was involved too.

Sam Bankman-Fried's FTX and market maker, venture cryptofund Alameda Research are presently the most liquid companies in the cryptospace. I reckon also CZ, Justin Sun and their companies. I speculate that by the end of this bear market the 3 of them might be already owning 75% of the cryptospace hehehe.

Also, it appears that we in bitcointalk are always late with the news. It is only now that much of the people in the forum have heard of Sam Bankman-Fried and consider him as someone who is only passing by hehehehe.



FTX closes in on a deal to buy embattled crypto lender BlockFi for $25 million in a fire sale, source says

Crypto exchange FTX is close to finalizing a term sheet to buy BlockFi and a deal is expected to be signed by the end of this week, three sources familiar with the situation told CNBC.

It comes after FTX provided a $250 million emergency line of credit to BlockFi.

Jersey City, New Jersey-based BlockFi was last valued at $4.8 billion, according to PitchBook.

Source https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/30/ftx-closes-in-on-a-deal-to-buy-embattled-crypto-lender-blockfi-for-25-million-in-a-fire-sale.html

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[dansus021]

first of all guys what happen with poloniex and bittrex I try to google it but don't find anything are they scammed someone both of them is some of the old bitcoin exchange 

and second my opinion about current exchange is I don't know like we cant trust any of them after i see couple you guys said in the other hand Bybit and Kucoin are pretty new and yes the are like Chinese exchange Hotbit that list bunch of token

[stompix]

~Another funny thing is that these exchanges were doing fine in 2020 when we dropped to 4k in March 2020 but suddenly they're in trouble at 20k? Who's going to believe that? If we were at 3k right now they'd probably all go bankrupt, but so would 99% of people who hold cryptocurrencies. It's not going to happen.

Same thing am wondering! how come suddenly almost all exchange are struggling with funds when the situation imo is not as worse as in 2018 where btc was at 3k, and how come suddenly this guy has something negative to say? Or he is doing this on purpose to cause panic among panic sellers to further dump the price? i don't get what he is getting at. Another face of fud perhaps  

Because exchanges make money out of trades, not by hodling.
So it doesn't matter how much one coin is worth but how much people trade those coins, if you look at data you'll see that  3k doesn't imply 7 times lower volume than now or that volume by the start of the year wasn't two times bigger. Back in 2018 Bitfinex was trading 1.8 million coins and now is doing 200k.

When you have to increase expenditure, customer support costs, deal with more coins than ever and face more competition the price is not the main problem anymore. Plus many have started while taking losses, and many have spent millions on ads, for them it was supposed to increase their customer base to finally make a profit after a time, and all that changed.

[crwth]

I know that Sam has already been giving out help towards those exchanges that are losing out in the lending space. I view it like this. Two scenarios could play out because of the businesses that might go bankrupt or companies that go down, and Sam is the only one who could save them. Imagine this.

If Sam let his competitors down.
 - Most of the users in the exchanges he didn't help will lose trust in the whole cryptocurrency market. Then people affected by it would make it seem that people shouldn't invest in crypto, hence the loss of potential investors and interest in the market. So the whole cryptocurrency will go down, and the general public's view on cryptocurrencies will also go down.

Conclusion: Lose-Lose

If Sam helped his competitors
 - The whole cryptocurrency market can be saved and not destroyed in view and essence. Of course, the market will still go down but not to the point that it can dip so bad that people would lose interest and won't believe in cryptocurrencies anymore. When he helped BlockFi and Voyager, it had already proved that many companies needed to bail out, and he saved his competitors for the greater good. That's just how it is.

Conclusion: Lose in the short-term, Win in the long term.


That's just how I view it now when it comes to the cryptocurrency market, and it would be helpful if it's going to be everyone helping each other to make the world better and suitable for everyone.


References:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/sam-bankman-fried-rescues-crypto-lenders-blockfi-voyager.html

[dezoel]

This ain't even a question in my mind. I feel like there is a good amount of them that are insolvent for sure. They end up getting hacked, getting attacked, doing mistakes, losing money and in the end there are tons of money missing from the coffers that should be there.

So, what do they do? They act as if profit making ponzi schemes, which means that if nobody cash out all of the money, they could use all their profits to get back to being solvent, but if anything happens before that then they are caught and they need to come clean. This is why I use binance, because I know that they are too big to be insolvent, even if they ever lose something, they can get it back before anything happens.

[amishmanish]

When market bleed some die, some live. Its the companies who invested more in failed altcoins, without financial or technical prudency. Thus they have lost both their funds and market trust. Current fall is also due to hikes in intrest rates by central banks, leading to massive withdrawals. Another
factor is decreasing returns on miming and increasing mining costs, which have dampened the moods of miners, still the hodlers are buying during the fall. Most of the financial analyst see bitcoin as future currency and it is here and going to stay.

[bbc.reporter]

I know that Sam has already been giving out help towards those exchanges that are losing out in the lending space. I view it like this. Two scenarios could play out because of the businesses that might go bankrupt or companies that go down, and Sam is the only one who could save them. Imagine this.

If Sam let his competitors down.
 - Most of the users in the exchanges he didn't help will lose trust in the whole cryptocurrency market. Then people affected by it would make it seem that people shouldn't invest in crypto, hence the loss of potential investors and interest in the market. So the whole cryptocurrency will go down, and the general public's view on cryptocurrencies will also go down.

Conclusion: Lose-Lose

If Sam helped his competitors
 - The whole cryptocurrency market can be saved and not destroyed in view and essence. Of course, the market will still go down but not to the point that it can dip so bad that people would lose interest and won't believe in cryptocurrencies anymore. When he helped BlockFi and Voyager, it had already proved that many companies needed to bail out, and he saved his competitors for the greater good. That's just how it is.

Conclusion: Lose in the short-term, Win in the long term.


That's just how I view it now when it comes to the cryptocurrency market, and it would be helpful if it's going to be everyone helping each other to make the world better and suitable for everyone.


References:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/sam-bankman-fried-rescues-crypto-lenders-blockfi-voyager.html

It is also said that it was Sam who liquidated everyone hehehe. It also appears that Sam has also pushed everyone in his way aside when he was on his way to become one of the kings of the cryptospace and share the throne with CZ. However, what is his real plan? Defeat CZ similar to what he did to Arthur Hayes?

[bbc.reporter]

News update.

Sam Bankman-Fried has declared that they have a few billion to help cryptocompanies that are struggling with their cashflow. This is very good news because when a big company begins helping small companies as a gateway to own them, this might be the first indicator that we are on the bottom of the bear market hehehehe.



Sam Bankman-Fried, head of one of the largest cryptocurrency exchanges, FTX, said he and his company still have a “few billion” on hand to shore up struggling firms that could further destabilize the digital asset industry, but that the worst of the liquidity crunch has likely passed.

Source https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/crypto-exchange-ftx-has-a-few-billion-to-support-industry-bankman-fried

[franky1]

Sam Bankman-Fried's FTX and market maker, venture cryptofund Alameda Research are presently the most liquid companies in the cryptospace. I reckon also CZ, Justin Sun and their companies. I speculate that by the end of this bear market the 3 of them might be already owning 75% of the cryptospace hehehe.

hmm then they must be neck-and-neck with the blockstream/DCG guy
https://dcg.co/portfolio/

oh wait. DCG owns FTX.. so its sams neck up barry silberts ass..
seems FTX is pretending he owns all these companies and doesnt know where his head ends and his bosses ass begins

[GreatArkansas]

(....)
 It is very clear that Poloniex and Bittrex should be avoided. What are the others? Bybit, Deribit, Kucoin?

Yeah, I agree to ignore Poloniex and Bittrex, these 2 exchanges already had a lot of issues even though they are already here for a long time.
I prefer to support and use these new exchanges; Bybit or Kucoin. Bybit is also good which already lot of volumes which is almost the same level as FTX exchange.

Speaking of most exchanges, I believe most of them are very careful these, especially because of what happened to others like Celcius or Voyager. I really like Sam, he really know what he is doing.

[bbc.reporter]

@GreatArkansas. Poloniex might be an underestimated exchange and it might be as safe as the biggest exchanges to hold some coins there for trading. His excellency Justin Sun appears to have made billions since 2017 hehe. He has also declared that he might also participate with Sam and CZ in helping some cryptocompanies with their cashflow.



We are friends with everyone and are always ready to serve.

Source https://mobile.twitter.com/justinsuntron/status/1545369541269921792



It also appears that there is a new storyline for Sam Bankman-Fried in this article in Fortune magazine hehehe.



The crypto crash resembles the Panic of 1907, with Sam Bankman-Fried in the role of J.P. Morgan

Source https://fortune.com/2022/06/28/crypto-crash-sam-bankman-fried-ftx-panic-of-1907/

[Za1n]

It's just me or anyone else also think, this guy only promoting his exchanges since he mention his exchanges first?

Weird how he include Coinbase wouldn't insolvent while they're already lay off 18% of their workers and suffer $430 million losses, it's possible if Coinbase would bankrupt in the near future if Bitcoin price continue to drop and they don't have good management to take care or continue their business.

Honestly I don't understand why many people are choose other exchanges (low volume, small, new etc) rather than the old and reputable one until now? Talking about the fees, it doesn't have so much different. Usually it's just a matter of top exchanges didn't list all shitcoins, AFAIK Hotbit and MEXC are full of shitcoins that the reason why many people to use this exchanges. But for other middle-top tier exchanges, I don't see any reason why other still use it.

I think in the end, the popular and big exchanges we've seen right now would bankrupt in the future, similar like Mt.Gox.

|	. Name .	|	..... News link.....	|	............................................ Notes ........................	|
|	Gemini	|	...10% of the workforce	|	.......we have made the difficult but necessary decision to part ways with approximately 10% of our workforce	|
|	Coinbase	|	...Coinbase Lay Off 18% of Workers	|	.......Coinbase reported a $430 million net loss in the first quarter, or $1.98 per share, Revenue was down as trading volumes fell, and active monthly users declined 19% from the fourth quarter.	|
|	blockfi	|	...20% of it's workforce	|	.......dramatic shift in macroeconomic conditions” and BlockFi’s push to become profitable.	|
|	Crypto.com	|	...5% of its work force	|	.......That means making difficult and necessary decisions to ensure continued and sustainable growth for the long term by making targeted reductions of approximately 260 or 5% of our corporate workforce.	|

Myself I don't see these developments as worrying as others make them out to be.  Outside of Crypto, usually when a company announces layoffs to save money the stock will go up. Crypto, and companies, go through cycles, so it make sense to trim back expenses as the market conditions dictate.

I would be more worried about companies pretending everything is fine rather than taking measures to trim expenses when the market is in a downturn. I am sure many of those lost jobs were in areas of research and new services rather than the bread and butter positions that keep the company running. It only make sense now that we are entering a downturn, which means less customers, less trading, hence less fees for revenue, that a prudent company starts looking for ways to trim its expenses. It not like its a secret that Crypto is entering a bear market, so there are bound to be losses and pullbacks everywhere.

[jrrsparkles]

Why we need to avoid using those exchanges? Apart from laying off the workers? This is happening everywhere and its not due to the bear market its because of the artificial intelligence so the need of human resources are not much as in 2015 or earlier to run a company and in future we may see bigger companies with staffs numbers in single or double digits so we are at the evolution of artificial intelligence and machines replacing humans.

[Lucius]

Sam Bankman-Fried has declared that they have a few billion to help cryptocompanies that are struggling with their cashflow. This is very good news because when a big company begins helping small companies as a gateway to own them, this might be the first indicator that we are on the bottom of the bear market hehehehe.

It's his business move, but I think it's a bigger shame (in the long term) to save such companies than to let them fail. If these companies are saved, they will become even bigger over time, and with regard to their business policies and greed, the next market crash will result in them dragging down much more of the clients' money than is the case now.

As for the bottom, I would like you to be right, but there are too many who are still calling for a new crash in the zone below $15k, and the situation on the world markets does not look good, with the prospect of even bigger drops in Q4, and a very bad start of the new year.

[Fortify]

Does Sam Bankman-Fried's statement imply that the cryptospace not seen the bottom of this bear market? I am shaking my head because everyone who was going to capitulate appears to have capitulated already. There might not be more marginal sellers left in this market hehe.

In any case, the article mentioned that the strong giants are FTX, Binance, Kraken and Coinbase. For our safety, let us speculate which exchanges should be avoided by the community. It is very clear that Poloniex and Bittrex should be avoided. What are the others? Bybit, Deribit, Kucoin?

Sam Bankman-Fried, CEO of FTX, liquidator of the cryptospace

After throwing lifelines to troubled digital currency platforms BlockFi and Voyager Digital, Sam Bankman-Fried, the 30-year-old billionaire founder of FTX, warns that some crypto exchanges will soon fail.

“There are companies that are basically too far gone and it's not practical to backstop them for reasons like a substantial hole in the balance sheet, regulatory issues, or that there is not much of a business left to be saved,” says Bankman-Fried, who declined to name any specific crypto exchanges.

“There are some third-tier exchanges that are already secretly insolvent,” says Bankman-Fried.

Fried’s FTX, along with Coinbase, Kraken and Binance, are giants among digital asset exchanges.

Read in full https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenehrlich/2022/06/28/bankman-fried-some-crypto-exchanges-already-secretly-insolvent/?sh=4a2fe21a47f7

It's actually probably true. In any new financial arena there will be a flurry of companies who try to jump in and in order to compete in the highly lucrative world of crypto exchanges they will want to expand fast. What do they do to expand quickly? Borrow as much money as possible and hope that the business plan of charging fees into customers works out faster than the loans come up for redemption. With the fall in the price of Bitcoin and the ultra competitive nature of the market, there are going to be some companies that did not account for that drop - they will likely go out of business. Fortunately relatively few companies are listed with a big amount of shareholders so the impact of their collapse will be limited to the few owners and potentially customer account funds.

[teosanru]

I saw a few days back there was a controversy around Kucoin for the very same thing, but the CEO clarified the FUD on Twitter pretty clearly. No matter how weird this news might sound but there are good chances of this being true. Because exchanges around the world have certain money into their cold storage apart from that their hot wallets details aren't really public, even if you find it there is no public data that how much in total are people holding on that exchange. Obviously, not everyone would come together to withdraw their money and Exchanges might be taking advantage of it by just keeping some money on the exchange and lending the rest for exorbitant interests. I am not sure if these are insolvent or not but surely they are using our money for their leverage.

[bbc.reporter]

Sam Bankman-Fried has declared that they have a few billion to help cryptocompanies that are struggling with their cashflow. This is very good news because when a big company begins helping small companies as a gateway to own them, this might be the first indicator that we are on the bottom of the bear market hehehehe.

It's his business move, but I think it's a bigger shame (in the long term) to save such companies than to let them fail. If these companies are saved, they will become even bigger over time, and with regard to their business policies and greed, the next market crash will result in them dragging down much more of the clients' money than is the case now.

As for the bottom, I would like you to be right, but there are too many who are still calling for a new crash in the zone below $15k, and the situation on the world markets does not look good, with the prospect of even bigger drops in Q4, and a very bad start of the new year.

Sam Bankman-Fried is beginning to act something similar to a central bank if he continues to bail out these cryptobanks and creates another organization to oversee their progress after his bail outs hehehe.

Sam has also again implied in this interview that from what he knows and what he has seen, the cryptospace bottom might have occurred already. He will not declare it as a 100% certainty, however hehe.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iEMSNjS3r0

[yhiaali3]

These statements are really offensive propaganda, most people think that this man is doing bad publicity to publicize his exchange, these statements will have a bad effect on Crypto in general because it may cause panic among some traders and prompt them to withdraw their assets from those exchanges that he described as insolvent, in the event of an accident. This will actually cause a problem, there is no doubt that many exchanges are in trouble due to the continuation of the bear market but this is not a problem, it has happened many times before and the exchanges have overcome the crisis every time and have continued to work until now.
In any case, in anticipation of the worst, it is better in this bear market that investors store their crypto assets in their wallets instead of keeping them on the exchanges because it is very risky.

[bbc.reporter]

This meme was shared by a respected whale and social media influencer. The logo on the left is Celsius, the logo on right is 3 Arrows Capital. The face in the middle is Sam Trabucco, the CEO of Alameda Research, a cryptoventure fund and market maker connected to FTX.

I am not quite certain what is being implied in this meme, however, Celsius, 3 Arrows are bankrupt and Alameda Research was discovered to have an unpaid loan with Voyager.



@Daltonik, @adaseb, @zasad@. Do you have your own speculations on this?

[stompix]

I saw a few days back there was a controversy around Kucoin for the very same thing, but the CEO clarified the FUD on Twitter pretty clearly.

The first sign of something going terribly wrong is when you lose your temper and shout FUD

I think FUDs are not just targeting KuCoin. We noticed that there had been a lot of rumors in the industry recently, and they have already plagued many companies.

Quick reminder:
Mashinsky (Celsius)

‘Don’t listen to the FUD-ers, look at the facts,’

Do Kwon

Its in the governance proposal that launched the new network, which you obviously didn’t read
Cheers, fud harder

Voyager:

All Voyager products and services are fully operational and remain unaffected by current market conditions, including trading, rewards, deposits, and withdrawals. We take risk management very seriously, and safeguarding customer assets is our number one priority.

Should I go and quote every single one of those liars who were screaming FUD, who were debunking FUD only to lock user funds a few days later and fill for bankruptcy?

Get your coins now out of every centralized exchange, FUD or not there is no reason to risk all your funds by testing the words of some guy on Twitter.

Sam Bankman-Fried is beginning to act something similar to a central bank if he continues to bail out these cryptobanks and creates another organization to oversee their progress after his bail outs hehehe.

Yeah, seems like he is approaching faster and faster the role of Morgan in 1907 the ft articles mentioned.
But, I doubt anyone no matter how large his pockets and his willingness to help will be able to do something about it, every single day we hear about another major stupidity done by those companies, another stupid loan, another stupid investment, no way you can keep bailing every single one.