to blackhatcoiner
i have already explained to you and other readers that YOUR confusing of the 3 words "value" "values" and "prices" is your misunderstanding of trying to deem them as the same thing. they are not the same thing. now go separate them in your own mindset.
i find it funny that your even trolling to say you have never heard of the word "price" in your life.. but hey. you do make me laugh
one thing i will agree with you is that while you can only see the market, you think its al speculative. that is correct. but that does not mean that there is not a intrinsic value below your narrow mind view of only looking at the market.
have a cup of coffee and take some time to think beyond the randomness of speculation zone you have focused on
to tadamichi
one more time. this time with emphasis
the underlying bottom number is not the number that everyone has a cost at .. as they all have different ideals, price points and values((plural)sentiments(not to be confused with value)) of their desires and demands..
those with higher costs.. stop mining at their level.. but that just helps out the others with lower costs that remain..
all that variable stuff of different costs and price points is the speculation layer ABOVE.
here is a game for you
calculate the cheapest asic you can buy. the most efficient. calculate its energy cost to mine at the cheapest available electric in a region that can cope with mining. find the luckiest hashrate of a period to have the lowest mining cost on the planet!!
then take another number for the highest energy cost of the most reasonable asic thats not as efficient but not stupidly inefficient that no one makes profit over(the cut off point of inefficiency.) and use that as another number
lets for demonstration sake to save you time call it a $15k to $70k window of 2021
now go find a random number generator and produce as many variable price points between all this as you like. give them all of your wonderful idea's of pricepoints each have, like an american residential hobby miners higher price point than a kazakhstan efficient price point. designate some of them random numbers as the buyers with different ideals sentiments, desires, demands for their price points..
have some fun trying to figure out all the variables of the market speculation of different people.
designate others where some are making profit and some are not currently so given up the idea of selling and found their "hoard and hope personal pricepoint they wont sell below
once you waste hours having fun with all that.. here is the thing you need to do.
forget all the thousands of dots you have scattered around. and look at the lowest number you can find..
if you are then seeing another number below that.. the forget the first low you found and use only the actual low you have.
emphasize your mindset to that lowest value point you can find
and thats the number im talking about..
so for emphasis.
stop looking at a market chart.. you will not find the UNDERLYING value on a market chart. sorry just no, its not there.
the market chart is the sentiment layer of speculation above value.
.. everyone has their own personal pricepoints and sentiments of their values(demands desires, views on the values(features and benefits)) but the underlying value. is at the bottom of all that
when everything is good, everyone is positive everyones making profit and buyers are really demanding it, the PRICE is high and the price is a big gap away(higher) then the underlying value.. people call these the bubble events where the price is very very premium and highly speculative above value
when things are negative and people dont see the benefits and demand isnt there and some higher cost miners are making losses and give up. to instead maybe just wait.. or(insert variable)
the market price declines back closer to the underlying value.
but that underlying value is still not the days closing low or the hourly dip.
the underlying sits below all that. so dont try talking about market price stuff when trying to find the underlying value. its a separate number at the bottom away from the active price
if you are finding many variables of different peoples personal price points of wanting to buy or sell, any variable,, then you have not found the bottom.
the bottom is the bottom, the under number, the bottom, they beneath number, under beneath bottom under beneath bottom, where all are unwilling to sell below because they would rather hoard and hope. rather then sell
and no im not talking about some guy with middle range hoard and hope costs where you then try to show another guy whos number is below that to say that im wrong..
if your finding another number below any number your thinking of.. take the BOTTOM number. the ultimate bottom number of all speculative assumptions.
find the bottom number of al variables and you have the underlying number
...
maybe people need a visual demonstration
this chart below is NOT, i repeat and emphasise NOT made where the orange and grey lines are metrics of anything to do with market price data.
no market price data has influenced the orange and grey number at all
its purely the most cheapest mining cost on the planet(orange) and the most expensive mining cost on the planet(grey)
the chart below that.. then and only then puts the market price(blue) into the chart. for a visual aid
and you start to see..
the price does not go above the top and it doesnt hit the bottom.
the underlying bottom(orange) is below all the sentiment of individuals different buy/sell price points of the markets whimsy
whilst some people want to talk about the whimsy, variable, speculative stuff of the market price and all the variable sentiments of features utility desire and demand of emotional choices of randomness each person has compared to other people..
this topic title is about none of that.
its about the underlying "monetary value" in of itself
i get all your speaches about the randomness of different peoples ideals. and the variances. but get to the bottom of your examples. and you will find what is actually being asked by the topic creator