Trump Lite

[franky1]

Boris Johnson is continuing the tory trend of asset-stripping public services to sell to private companies.  He believes in private health insurance rather than an NHS which is free at the point of need.  His primary interest in taking the UK out of the European Union is slashing consumer protections, environmental protections and workers rights in order to benefit private companies. 

i think you are confusing that with cameron and May.
have you seen how much boris has thrown into the NHS in the last 2 years after a decade of stripping during the cameron/May era

boris was a brexiteer whilst cameron and May were a remainer.
so you might want to check out who was on which side of the left right divide. in regards to brexit

either way.. its much like previous decade.. blair was a tory in labour clothing and boris was a tory in tory clothing but pandering to the labour people for extra votes by going against his own at times

[Cnut237]

Johnson campaigned as being a conservative, but when he governed, he was governing from the left.

He's just an arrogant, entitled opportunist, with no deep-seated ideological views either way. It's notable that when he ran London as mayor, he took great pains to position himself as a lot more liberal and cosmopolitan than the traditional Tory... purely because that's what the voters wanted.

And when positioning himself for the leadership of the Tory party, in the Brexit referendum, he came out as "leave" and spearheaded that campaign as a far-right foreigner-hatin' freedom-lovin' union-flag-wavin' racist xenophobe... because he saw that it would be popular, and that was the way the votes were going.

The Tories have been threatening to tear themselves apart over Europe for a generation. I don't think we can argue that a man who takes control of the right-wing of a right-wing party, and then implements a hard-right Brexit can really be governing from the left. His policies were motivated entirely by self-interest, and in general achieved by harnessing the support of the far right.

[TwitchySeal]

Johnson campaigned as being a conservative, but when he governed, he was governing from the left.

He's just an arrogant, entitled opportunist, with no deep-seated ideological views either way. It's notable that when he ran London as mayor, he took great pains to position himself as a lot more liberal and cosmopolitan than the traditional Tory... purely because that's what the voters wanted.

"Well, look, I'm - I'm very pro-choice,"
-Trump 1999

“In many cases, I probably identify more as Democrat”
-Trump 2004

“Hillary’s always surrounded herself with very good people. I think Hillary would do a good job,”
-Trump 2007

[Cnut237]

~

I think that demagogues such as Trump and Johnson can get away with such political shape-shifting for the same reason that they can get away with such frequent and quite blatant lying. Of course politicians have always lied, but in the past they've always tried to cover it up ("I did not have sexual relations with that woman"), but the new populist politican just doesn't care that everyone knows they're lying, and it doesn't weaken them in the way it did with, say, Clinton, it actually strengthens them as it helps to build up their carefully-crafted persona as the embattled outspoken outsider railing against the corrupt establishment. And this is all possible because the populists don't appeal to reason, using logical arguments, they instead appeal directly to emotion and the carefully curated prejudices that have been instilled in large sections of the populace. The opposition don't seem to have understood yet that when for example Trump has a rant about Mexicans, it's impossible to counter that by saying "well, actually Mexican immigrants contribute x to the economy, provide vital labour force in y industry, etc". Same reason that when I use facts and logic in a discussion with BADecker, it has no effect.

[BADecker]

~

I think that demagogues such as Trump and Johnson can get away with such political shape-shifting for the same reason that they can get away with such frequent and quite blatant lying. Of course politicians have always lied, but in the past they've always tried to cover it up ("I did not have sexual relations with that woman"), but the new populist politican just doesn't care that everyone knows they're lying, and it doesn't weaken them in the way it did with, say, Clinton, it actually strengthens them as it helps to build up their carefully-crafted persona as the embattled outspoken outsider railing against the corrupt establishment. And this is all possible because the populists don't appeal to reason, using logical arguments, they instead appeal directly to emotion and the carefully curated prejudices that have been instilled in large sections of the populace. The opposition don't seem to have understood yet that when for example Trump has a rant about Mexicans, it's impossible to counter that by saying "well, actually Mexican immigrants contribute x to the economy, provide vital labour force in y industry, etc". Same reason that when I use facts and logic in a discussion with BADecker, it has no effect.

The problem is that we are talking different points. You are talking politics in general. And that is great. But the point is that any good thing that Trump said, he backed it up with the fact of doing it.

But take a look at Biden's politics... destroying the economies of many friendly nations, destroying the livelihood of the peoples of many friendly nations, transferring funds to a little, nothing-country to enrich himself and his political buddies, along with the nation that he claims to be fighting.

To be fair, you can't do things two ways. Possibly if Trump was active President, these same things might be happening, and maybe worse. Nobody knows.

But the point is, things are bad, and it's Biden and his regime that are responsible.

[Gyfts]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3559279-trump-says-hes-made-up-his-mind-about-2024-big-decision-is-if-announcement-is-before-or-after-midterms/

Trump will run again, it is all but confirmed.

Geriatric vs. geriatric, round 2, except I'm not sure Biden will run again so perhaps an asterisk marked under the democratic nominee.

American conservatives, specifically the neocons have to deal with this mindless fool running over strict constitutional conservatives that would have run in 2024. Trump is a wrecking ball and brings the worst out of people so it's best that some politicians sit this one out and hope for 2028.

Trump is less damaging than the progressive fascists that are gaining power in the democratic party, but he is also the person with the biggest amount of liability.

[TwitchySeal]

Trump is less damaging than the progressive fascists that are gaining power in the democratic party, but he is also the person with the biggest amount of liability.

Probably time to find another buzz word to use now that we know Trump is literally a fascist.

[PrimeNumber7]

Johnson campaigned as being a conservative, but when he governed, he was governing from the left.

LOLWHUT?

If Boris Johnson is left-wing, then I'm the fucking Intergalactic Space Pope.  I'm fairly sure you're being unintentionally hilarious, but just no.  

Boris Johnson is continuing the tory trend of asset-stripping public services to sell to private companies.  He believes in private health insurance rather than an NHS which is free at the point of need.  His primary interest in taking the UK out of the European Union is slashing consumer protections, environmental protections and workers rights in order to benefit private companies.  

Johnson was trying to raise taxes on corporations, raised the payroll tax, had a "net zero" emissions goals for England, in addition to crazy covid policies, among other things.

None of the above is what voters voted for, nor is what he campaigned on.

[Iroh]

You’re thoughts are tenable cause one can observe the similarities in policies, rhetorics in both the failed rulers. Who knows? He may very well have some slick move up his sleeve as I won’t even be surprised if he did some last drastic move to extend his stay at no 10

[Gyfts]

Trump is less damaging than the progressive fascists that are gaining power in the democratic party, but he is also the person with the biggest amount of liability.

Probably time to find another buzz word to use now that we know Trump is literally a fascist.

He's seems really bad at it considering he isn't in office anymore. Who would've known.

[TwitchySeal]

had a "net zero" emissions goals for England

Not all conservatives come up ridiculous ways to interpret what Scientists around the world are claiming so that it benefits them personally like they do with the bible.  Tackling the climate change problem translates to more stability long-term, which, is actually a conservative value.

Conservative Manifesto 2019
Boris Johnson’s Guarantee
We will get Brexit done in January and unleash the potential of our whole country.
I guarantee:

Extra funding for the NHS, with 50,000 more nurses and 50 million more GP surgery appointments a year.

20,000 more police and tougher sentencing for criminals.

An Australian-style points-based system to control immigration.

Millions more invested every week in science, schools, apprenticeships and infrastructure while controlling debt.

Reaching Net Zero by 2050 with investment in clean energy solutions and green infrastructure to reduce carbon emissions and pollution.

We will not raise the rate of income tax, VAT or National Insurance.
Thank you for supporting our majority Conservative Government so we can move our great country on instead of going backwards.

https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan

[Cnut237]

Tackling the climate change problem translates to more stability long-term, which, is actually a conservative value.

Democracy is a great idea, and elections every few years are also a good idea. But one problem with the way modern western democracies are set up is that it fosters short-termist thinking. Looking at climate change, even if we ignore the might and influence of the oil industry, the fact remains that fixing the climate involves sacrifices now in exchange for a reward in the future. Most governments - and particularly a Tory government - will shy away from implementing any policy that could make themselves look bad and their (unknown) successors look good. I assume at some point the climate issue will become so overwhelming that the spell might be broken and serious action might be taken, but by then a lot of damage will have been done. Governments will respond reactively (when they have to), rather than proactively (when they should). Sadly, it's a situation where this comic is relevant yet again.


https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/scientific_briefing.png

[BADecker]

Tackling the climate change problem translates to more stability long-term, which, is actually a conservative value.

Democracy is a great idea, and elections every few years are also a good idea. But one problem with the way modern western democracies are set up is that it fosters short-termist thinking. Looking at climate change, even if we ignore the might and influence of the oil industry, the fact remains that fixing the climate involves sacrifices now in exchange for a reward in the future. Most governments - and particularly a Tory government - will shy away from implementing any policy that could make themselves look bad and their (unknown) successors look good. I assume at some point the climate issue will become so overwhelming that the spell might be broken and serious action might be taken, but by then a lot of damage will have been done. Governments will respond reactively (when they have to), rather than proactively (when they should). Sadly, it's a situation where this comic is relevant yet again.


https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/scientific_briefing.png

But the really sad, comical thing is something that you and most Americans don't realize any longer. That America is a Republic that houses a partial Democracy for a government. Any time people want to get rid of the government - and rather easily - they can exercise their Republic parts. Lot's of people are doing this, like in bars that can allow smoking because they are clubs, and nudist camps because they are clubs, and just about anything that you want if you do it through club formation.

[PrimeNumber7]

had a "net zero" emissions goals for England

Not all conservatives come up ridiculous ways to interpret what Scientists around the world are claiming so that it benefits them personally like they do with the bible.  Tackling the climate change problem translates to more stability long-term, which, is actually a conservative value.

The climate is in fact changing over the long term, but that doesn't mean that it is being caused by humans, that there is anything that humans can do to stop/reverse it, nor that it will result in harm to the ability to inhabit the planet. There have been multiple cycles of climate over long periods of time, for example, many years ago, there was the ice age.

Measures to "fight" climate change are really a means to make the West weaker economically and militarily compared to China.

[TwitchySeal]

had a "net zero" emissions goals for England

Not all conservatives come up ridiculous ways to interpret what Scientists around the world are claiming so that it benefits them personally like they do with the bible.  Tackling the climate change problem translates to more stability long-term, which, is actually a conservative value.

The climate is in fact changing over the long term, but that doesn't mean that it is being caused by humans, that there is anything that humans can do to stop/reverse it, nor that it will result in harm to the ability to inhabit the planet. There have been multiple cycles of climate over long periods of time, for example, many years ago, there was the ice age.

Measures to "fight" climate change are really a means to make the West weaker economically and militarily compared to China.

Yes, this is the ridiculous view that many Republicans have and is in direct conflict with the view of the overwhelming majority of the most qualified Scientists around the world that I was referring to.

It is caused by humans.
It will result in harm to the ability to inhabit the planet.
There is lots humans can do to make it less bad.

Here's a list of 200 international Scientific Organizations that hold the position that Climate Change has been caused by human action.
https://www.opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-organizations.html

Here's the evidence explained:
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/



And, by the way, China has taken big steps to meet their goal of being carbon neutral by 2060 (same as Russia, and just 10 years after lefty boris promised) and has been the biggest investor in renewable energy for almost 10 years now.

[PrimeNumber7]

And, by the way, China has taken big steps to meet their goal of being carbon neutral by 2060 (same as Russia, and just 10 years after lefty boris promised) and has been the biggest investor in renewable energy for almost 10 years now.

Because the Chinese government should be trusted by default. In the meantime, China will continue to build additional coal power plants and will take other measures to increase its carbon emissions.

In the West, governments are actually taking steps to becoming less energy independent.

[Cnut237]

The climate is in fact changing over the long term, but that doesn't mean that it is being caused by humans, that there is anything that humans can do to stop/reverse it, nor that it will result in harm to the ability to inhabit the planet. There have been multiple cycles of climate over long periods of time, for example, many years ago, there was the ice age.

Measures to "fight" climate change are really a means to make the West weaker economically and militarily compared to China.

The climate is changing over the short term, and this is caused by humans. It certainly affects our ability to inhabit parts of the planet. It continues to amaze and appal me so how many ordinary people of a generally "right-wing" political leaning will happily lap up whatever lies they are fed by the oil industry and their stooges in government* rather than accept incontrovertible fact, simply because they don't want to be seen to identify with what they perceive as a "leftie" cause. The climate crisis is not a cover for some ideological push for a big state, or a geographical analogue of BLM, or anything like that. It should transcend politics, we all share the same planet, FFS, and everyone will be affected, even if they aren't already.

I write this on a Sunday evening. In my country, we're expecting to break our national temperature record tomorrow or Tuesday. Other parts of the world are literally on fire. 400 million people in China inhabit a place that may soon, for parts of the year, have such a high temperature that humans simply cannot survive there.




* ... and cigarettes don't cause cancer, right?  

Because the Chinese government should be trusted by default. In the meantime, China will continue to build additional coal power plants and will take other measures to increase its carbon emissions.

In the West, governments are actually taking steps to becoming less energy independent.

Neither China nor the West is doing anything like enough. It's mainly political greenwashing, and half-hearted commitments to go to net zero by 2050, which will of course be far too late. Hence my sharing that xkcd strip again.

[be.open]

Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi resigns.