Satoshi’s Place, U.K. Bury, Greater Manchester

[batesresearch]

**** OPENING 16th September ****

Hey,

Not sure where best to post this really but I am working to open a Bitcoin Hub in the UK which will be based in Bury, Greater Manchester.

Our goal is to Educate and onboard users into the Bitcoin space, of course we will be an actual business so will also be taking dirty fiat to pay the bills and suppliers!

We’ll have weekly workshops, a lightning bar, a lightning arcade, art space (Yes NFTs!), a custom lightning drinks menu (Including Brave Bull, Minetini, Gold rush etc) and plenty more on the planning!

Currently funding will cover us to open 3 days a week, probably 16:30/17:00 to 22:30 Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

The workshop and event schedule will be added to our site (and updated here) once we are open.

I’ve been screwed many times by the banks and expect to be again but my thought is that we’ll need this eventually so why not now!

This is the website: https://satoshisplace.co.uk/






This is the twitter: https://twitter.com/satoshisplaceuk

The final parts to take place & complete before we can set an opening date:

- Interviews, essential is Bar staff but we’d ideally hiring a chef aswell
- Funding to buy some final equip, projector/screen & laptops are essential but TVs, custom beers & outdoor signage are ideal
- Fibre install (Up to 28 day install time) Ideally we’d like the Fibre setup before opening as this is a USP for hot-desking, for visitors and we think a must for workshops.

[franky1]

Our goal is to Educate and onboard users into the Bitcoin space, of course we will be an actual business so will also be taking dirty fiat to pay the bills and suppliers!

ok a few lessons for you.


first lesson is that bitcoins never leave the BITCOIN network. thats the point of bitcoin. every bitcoin is accounted for and audited by a decentralised network of thousands of users. where no bitcoin can be taken off the network and no one can just make new balance appear on the blockchain outside the consensus rule

second lesson satoshi never invented the lightning network

third lesson is you mean OFF board people over to LN is your goal
using LN means getting people to stop using the bitcoin network. and only actively use the LN network

fourth lesson
you seem to have all the 'lightning' stuff, bar, drinks, arcade. but not one mention of the BITCOIN stuff
what i mean by this.
if i walked into your bar and asked to buy a drink saying "i want to pay with bitcoin". where thats all i say. no subliminal message, no tone, no subtle hidden meaning. .. if you then display to me an LN uri (something the bitcoin network and actual bitcoin software does not understand. .. then you are not letting me pay with bitcoin.
so you better be displaying to me a bitcoin address and not be asking me which method of payment i prefer to (subtly on your part) ask if i am a lightning user.

fifth lesson
i think you have your networks confused and who invented what
maybe rebrand your bar to "the rusty russell"(sounds like a brand name of a british pub as is)
or some wordplay of Poon/Dryja

if you cant tell the difference between the networks and their units of measure and who developed them.. then maybe you got your priorities out of order simply for 'gimmick' of brand recognition to drive people through the door

im guessing you are going to LIE to people as part of their first education where you will say 'bitcoin' is fast and cheap where transactions are milliseconds and all the blah that actually applies to lightning. whilst not actually teaching them about bitcoin..

if you want to advertise lightning. fine. but be precise
EG when advertising a 1900's 5pound bank note, it promised the bearer 5 lb of sterling silver..
but the bank note is not actually silver. and that promise is something that over time was proven to be broken.

so be clear what you are advertising. LN msats are not bitcoins
the pegging of the 1sat:1000msats are not locked into code law to never break.

be clear about the risks and warnings of using other networks
dont gimmick it as 'bitcoin 2.0'

[hZti]

This looks nice and I wish you the best for the future of this place, I would love to come visit if I am ever in Manchester! I wonder how you would set the bitcoin price tag for drinks and stuff in the menu, since the price changes quite a lot even during a single day?
Also will it be possible to purchase bitcoin at the bar to be able to directly pay for the purchase, since I would imagine many people will enter the shop that never heard of btc before.

first lesson is that bitcoins never leave the BITCOIN network

I don't see where they claimed that bitcoins could leave the network

[franky1]

first lesson is that bitcoins never leave the BITCOIN network

I don't see where they claimed that bitcoins could leave the network

its the standard stupid claim that bitcoins are on the LN network..
so follow logic instead of the gimmick

1. LN is a different network (the hint is in the N of LN)
2. different network = bitcoins are not on that network..
3. why.. because bitcoins dont leave the bitcoin network..
logic. simple

i got no problem with people advertising that they accept some pegged/backed sub-net/side chain/custodial Mysql balance/giftcard/niche service.. but they need to be clear about what it does and doesnt do and what it actually is and isnt

if they pretend they are educators. they need to show they know the differences between using/learning the real bitcoin network. vs the subnets that peg/bridge between blockchains

EG
imagine someone else opened up a satoshi shop. and was saying he was going to educate people about bitcoin network and get people onboard the bitcoin network.. then offered out binance chain WBTC.. would you think thats the same thing. or would you highlight the different networks and how a WBTC is not the same as a real btc. and how the different networks actualy differ and why hoarding on the actual bitcoin network means more than temporarily using another network for its niche service of faster payments. and suggesting the different risks can can be applied to the differences

i say all this because its been shown many many times that people get introduced to some fast subnet/sidechain with all the salespitch buzzwords of promise of bitcoin (security, reliability, immutability and guarantee of transaction confirmation, store of value assurance, deflation etc) by saying the subnet is (wrongly) 'bitcoin but better'.

where they are promoted into being told to hold those subnet units of measure long term for months and never settle out into the bitcoin blockchain(due to fee's and other excuses not to touch the actual bitcoin network...)
and later their pegged value breaks(numerous sidechains have failed, LN liquidity failures, unbacked funding commitments disappear and cant be used etc) or some other problem where payments on the subnet/sidechain are not successful and they start to think the promoter lied to them about the magic of what they were told..

. then they see the actual bitcoin network and see the 10min confirms(they were not told about because they only got told about instant LN) where bitcoin is not the super fast instant promise they were told about and so they call the entire bitcoin promotion they heard of, as a scam.. even though what they were promoted was a subnet pretending to be bitcoin

(its the over promising overselling of utopia and then people not receiving that same actual experience)

rather then being explained what the actual bitcoin network is in the first place and the other network offering is just a side service for niche SHORT TERM utility.
(underseling and not over promising is actually the better and most honest way to pitch something)

[NotATether]

Make sure your place also runs a few BTC nodes and c-lightning nodes as well.

[dragonvslinux]

This looks really cool, great name too, I hope it works for you!

I think for it to be popular enough (financially profitable) it might be worth branching out beyond Bitcoin and crypto a bit, while keeping all the aesthetics. I only worry that if only Bitcoiners go to that bar then it won't get many/enough customers. If it were to host hackspaces, tech workshops, financial talks or similar, then I think it could attract some non-Bitcoiners to the space as well.

I only worry that preaching to the crowd doesn't serve to attract new people, though can imagine it could certainly get some BTC tourism from further afield.

[Mbitr]

Great news and great idea and I’m sure knowing your past that you will make it work . I knew coinfest 2021 wasn’t going to be your last project. When you are a genuine Bitcoiner - you can’t stop promoting Bitcoin  

I’ve been to a few coinfests over the last few years (apart from the covid years) and I know what dedication you have given to promoting Bitcoin and helping any newbies around with workshops, bitcoin giveaways , charitable donations AND all for no monetary/ bitcoin gain. It’s great to meet people who actually walk the walk not just talk the talk when promoting Bitcoin.

As far as using LN - IMHO - go for it   I’ve bought and sold 100s of goods over the years with bitcoin and have never had any problems, but everyone knows it’s impractical for buying a beer/ coffee etc, so use the next best thing - LN.

I’ll certainly visit when I get a chance and I sincerely wish you all the best.

[kryptqnick]

Op, I'm happy that you're doing this. It looks like a nice place, and 3 times a week isn't a bad start. I can see there's a bar there, and people will be able to pay with the Lightning Network. Will they be able to pay with a Bitcoin on-chain transaction if they want (not via the LN, obviously)? And what are the tax implications if people pay with Bitcoin in a bar in the UK? Do they (customers) or you (owner) need to report it anywhere?
Good luck with the project!

[bitbollo]

congratulations it's a great idea, keep us updated on how your entrepreneurial adventure is proceeding.
is it the first enterprise of its kind that you carry out or are you already "introduced" in the sector?

I try to give you my advice .... you could insert a showcase in which you offer "collectible" products, books, card games, liquor bottles related the crypto world... in any case... good luck! if I ever go on this area I'll come and have a drink 

[batesresearch]

We never said anywhere that Satoshi invented the Lightning network.

Yes layer-1 and layer-2 Bitcoin are accepted not just Lightning.

Plenty of assumptions made by you but thanks for your feedback!

Our goal is to Educate and onboard users into the Bitcoin space, of course we will be an actual business so will also be taking dirty fiat to pay the bills and suppliers!

ok a few lessons for you.


.....

This looks nice and I wish you the best for the future of this place, I would love to come visit if I am ever in Manchester! I wonder how you would set the bitcoin price tag for drinks and stuff in the menu, since the price changes quite a lot even during a single day?
Also will it be possible to purchase bitcoin at the bar to be able to directly pay for the purchase, since I would imagine many people will enter the shop that never heard of btc before.

first lesson is that bitcoins never leave the BITCOIN network

I don't see where they claimed that bitcoins could leave the network

Hey, thank you.

We have built an API which pulls a weighted Bitcoin price (exchange rate) every 60 seconds and updates a dynamic display.

> Also will it be possible to purchase bitcoin at the bar to be able to directly pay for the purchase, since I would imagine many people will enter the shop that never heard of btc before.

Yes this is one of the key goals of the hub, so users can buy a small amount of BTC to then use (or keep) at the bar, buying drinks or snacks.

Make sure your place also runs a few BTC nodes and c-lightning nodes as well.

Thanks!

Yes we will be setting up several nodes (and probably running some workshops on how to set them up) current funds will just cover the basics for now but it is on our priority list!

This looks really cool, great name too, I hope it works for you!

I think for it to be popular enough (financially profitable) it might be worth branching out beyond Bitcoin and crypto a bit, while keeping all the aesthetics. I only worry that if only Bitcoiners go to that bar then it won't get many/enough customers. If it were to host hackspaces, tech workshops, financial talks or similar, then I think it could attract some non-Bitcoiners to the space as well.

I only worry that preaching to the crowd doesn't serve to attract new people, though can imagine it could certainly get some BTC tourism from further afield.

Thanks! Yes the struggle will be not making it to nerdy for people to be put off by as we will still accept FIAT for payments (As we need to still make money to pay the bills!)

Yes - it is a tough one but will to take the risk

Great news and great idea and I’m sure knowing your past that you will make it work . I knew coinfest 2021 wasn’t going to be your last project. When you are a genuine Bitcoiner - you can’t stop promoting Bitcoin   

I’ve been to a few coinfests over the last few years (apart from the covid years) and I know what dedication you have given to promoting Bitcoin and helping any newbies around with workshops, bitcoin giveaways , charitable donations AND all for no monetary/ bitcoin gain. It’s great to meet people who actually walk the walk not just talk the talk when promoting Bitcoin.

As far as using LN - IMHO - go for it  I’ve bought and sold 100s of goods over the years with bitcoin and have never had any problems, but everyone knows it’s impractical for buying a beer/ coffee etc, so use the next best thing - LN.

I’ll certainly visit when I get a chance and I sincerely wish you all the best.

Thanks!  Appreciated!

I am excited to see how it will develop and hope it has a positive impact on adoption, we want to onboard users but if people aren't interested then no pressure ( I am sure they'll be back in the future with questions!)

Op, I'm happy that you're doing this. It looks like a nice place, and 3 times a week isn't a bad start. I can see there's a bar there, and people will be able to pay with the Lightning Network. Will they be able to pay with a Bitcoin on-chain transaction if they want (not via the LN, obviously)? And what are the tax implications if people pay with Bitcoin in a bar in the UK? Do they (customers) or you (owner) need to report it anywhere?
Good luck with the project!

Yes - They'll be able to pay with a on-chain transaction aswell.

The customer necessarily doesn't need to report it but I suppose they could count it as a disposal to HMRC!

As for us then to keep the banks off our back then we'll be recording everything even if we are not selling the BTC (Which we don't plan to), we'll record the FIAT value at the point of transaction and report that.

Thanks.

congratulations it's a great idea, keep us updated on how your entrepreneurial adventure is proceeding.
is it the first enterprise of its kind that you carry out or are you already "introduced" in the sector?

I try to give you my advice .... you could insert a showcase in which you offer "collectible" products, books, card games, liquor bottles related the crypto world... in any case... good luck! if I ever go on this area I'll come and have a drink 

Thanks! We started renting the site back in 2018 and I had a Coffee Shop accepting BTC and hosting a few Bitcoin meetups, we then converted to a Pizzeria  (Yes selling Pizza for BTC and having awesome BTC Pizza Days!) but illness, COVID and decent pizza chef closed all that! 

Nice idea!

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[chrysophylax]

Bates ...

This is Yours Mate?

#crysx #cwi

[batesresearch]

Bates ...

This is Yours Mate?

#crysx #cwi

 


Just a quick update from the Satoshi's Place team:

We are currently have a discussion on the Onboarding procedure we should follow, Visitors new to Bitcoin will be able to convert a small amount of GBP (Coins) to BTC as part of the initial onboarding.

Once onboarded, users will be able to:
- Purchase a range of small products
- Use our Lightning bar
- Play our Lightning games

We will be recommending a minimum amount of £1 as part of the onboarding (But of course anything from 1p is an option)
We are thinking of the maximum amount a user can purchase as part of the onboarding should be set at £5#

Some other updates:

- LTD company setup
- Awaiting HMRC / PAYE info
- Trademark application submitted (Proposed inline with COPA)
- Last bar staff interviews finally booked!
- Business bank account is approved
- Awaiting a Fibre install date, speeds have been estimated at around 1050Mbps!



[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[franky1]

only able to purchase (1pence-)£1-£5
and you call that 'onboarding bitcoin', seems a small limit you wish to apply.(knowing the current bitcoin fee's will eat into that quick. especiially a 1pence purchase...)(heck even btc tx fee's for LN locking would eat this.. unless your using pre locked coin of balance in LN to be imbound to ln customer that have NOTHING to do with the multisig sharing process of the lock, thus not having actual bitcoin until they decide/able to close session, where they are then hit with the surprises of bitcoin network experience.. )
i understand from a regulatory prospective this allows you to avoid KYC headaches by being way below money service business requirements. but the low amounts seem too low for an effective and worthy bitcoin purchase

i feel you are actually talking about onboarding them to LN as thats the only practical way to give people 1pence-£5 of crypto without losing value instantly in fee's

from a training, teaching, education respect of talking to your customers.. i do hope you mean asking a user to download a BITCOIN wallet and tell you a BITCOIN address so they can have some UNLOCKED bitcoins on their own private key without any custodian service or multisig partner authorisation requirement.. you know the actual bitcoin experience..
.. .. and not be asking customers to download a LN wallet and open a channel with a service('fastbitcoin' LN hub node) that has readily available outbound(imbound to customer) msats., locking them into the other network thats nothing like bitcoin

if it is the case of 'onboarding them' via a LN wallet. please be sure you dont confuse them by pretending they are experiencing bitcoin network features.

[dkbit98]

We will be recommending a minimum amount of £1 as part of the onboarding (But of course anything from 1p is an option)
We are thinking of the maximum amount a user can purchase as part of the onboarding should be set at £5

It's cool looking place and I like that you pay attention to details, like that famous 2009 Chancellor message on the entry door, education and workshops is a great idea.
Maybe consider adding Bitcoin collectibles on wall, like newspapers, articles, images, books, bitcoin notes, and anything related with Bitcoin that is part of history, and don't forget to mention Bitcointalk forum
I guess website could be updated with more information and images, but that is just some finishing touches.
Good luck and all the best with your new business!

[batesresearch]

We will be recommending a minimum amount of £1 as part of the onboarding (But of course anything from 1p is an option)
We are thinking of the maximum amount a user can purchase as part of the onboarding should be set at £5

It's cool looking place and I like that you pay attention to details, like that famous 2009 Chancellor message on the entry door, education and workshops is a great idea.
Maybe consider adding Bitcoin collectibles on wall, like newspapers, articles, images, books, bitcoin notes, and anything related with Bitcoin that is part of history, and don't forget to mention Bitcointalk forum
I guess website could be updated with more information and images, but that is just some finishing touches.
Good luck and all the best with your new business!

Thanks!

Yes nice idea, we do have some pieces up currently but hope to add more! Got a few up here:



Here another few shots of the Hub:

[batesresearch]

Quick update,

We run a successful tasting night last night (5th Aug), for tasting / feedback on the cocktails aswell as testing of the POS in live environment and a trial of two potential staff!

Here's a video we uploaded to Twitter, not sure it'll come through on here: https://twitter.com/i/status/1555847742748086272

For our cocktail list we had Minetini, Negroni Nakamoto, Gold Rush, Brave Bull, Surviving the Bear and Lightning Fast. Great feedback all round really on all of them!

We took payments (Just small payments for these) on the two main terminals we have:
FastBitcoins:
CoinCorner:
NOTE : These aren't the actual prices of the drinks, it is just a mockup with temp prices we have been running!

I have been working on the feedback and reviewing notes as I'd like to set an opening date soon! The main delays have been waiting on 3rd parties (Mainly Virgin to install the fibre) to do their job and funds.

As many know Satoshi's Place is self-funded by CryptoBates Group so when we received a donation to the BTC address yesterday it was absolutely awesome! Amazing to have someone put that faith in us and the project! This makes our path to opening & achieving our goals a lot easier to see & achieve!

We'll be creating a Wall of Fame for donations and even if this is our only donation it'll sit proud at our hub!

Lastly we are hoping to finalise our plans for our charity formation soon, the charity will be driven with the goals of Educating & Onboarding folk into Bitcoin.

The website has been updated slitghly with some more information on our legal setup and tasks! Check it out here: https://satoshisplace.co.uk/

All the best 

[stompix]

NOTE : These aren't the actual prices of the drinks, it is just a mockup with temp prices we have been running!

Just lol, after spending 10 minutes looking at them and double checking the exchange rate as some seemed really pricy, wondering why small and large cost the same...this 

But this looks great, hopefully you will get a lot of both curious and enthusiasts that want to deal with Btcoin only, as things have evolved this is no longer the troublesome way of paying with BTC anymore, pay with Gpay or LN with your smartphone is just as convenient nowadays and probably the userbase has grown quite a bit from previous years, at least enough to keep it running.
Also, the most important thing, if franky1 says this is bad then most likely it will be a success, he is always!, always wrong on everything!

[batesresearch]

NOTE : These aren't the actual prices of the drinks, it is just a mockup with temp prices we have been running!

Just lol, after spending 10 minutes looking at them and double checking the exchange rate as some seemed really pricy, wondering why small and large cost the same...this 

But this looks great, hopefully you will get a lot of both curious and enthusiasts that want to deal with Btcoin only, as things have evolved this is no longer the troublesome way of paying with BTC anymore, pay with Gpay or LN with your smartphone is just as convenient nowadays and probably the userbase has grown quite a bit from previous years, at least enough to keep it running.
Also, the most important thing, if franky1 says this is bad then most likely it will be a success, he is always!, always wrong on everything!

  - Nearly ready to add the actual prices, just crazy how high some stock prices have gone!

Yes - Lightning app have definitely come a long way and helped.

 

Just a note we will actual Layer 1 AND Layer 2 BTC. (For anyone else reading)

[batesresearch]

Hey all,

Just some quick updates:


- With the awesome donation received 3 days ago in mind, we have put forward a proposal with our group. The proposal covers the purchase of assets which will play a key role in the hub achieving its goals i.e. a TV for Workshop presentation and Laptops for the zebedeeio gaming. Either-way and for transparency we’ll be adding a summary of the proposal to our website.


- We have been running through the process of Sats Redeem payment on our till. A Lightning withdrawal QR is printed onto the receipt and is encoded to the GBP value the user would like to purchase, The system uses LNBits ---> https://twitter.com/lnbits



- Following feedback, we have updated our till receipts and they now have a Satoshi’s Place logo QR at the top which is encoded with our bitcoin donation address

[usekevin]

It was seems wonderful,because it’s hard to see the service which accepted bitcoin as the payments.This will surely increase the feedback of the bitcoin.When the bitcoin price back to normal,surely you will earn more money from the payments.Just hold your getting bitcoin for the year,surely bitcoin will not lose you at any point.Holding is the essential for you to earn more from bitcoin.