EU countries agree deal to cut use of gas this winter

[Sithara007]

I agree that this is their only choice, however this is going to affect their citizens a lot, with a lower supply even if the demand is somehow artificially lowered the price of gas will go up since there are limits to how much they can lower their consumption, so the EU better hopes that the winter that is coming is benevolent with them otherwise they may face shortages which will put the lives of some people at risk at the regions where the cold is the harshest.

At this point, the EU is banking on hypothetical scenarios. They are assuming that they will be able to secure more gas supplies from non-Russian sources such as the United States and will be able to lower the gas consumption within the EU by a large amount. And there is no guarantee that things will go as planned. For example, the fire at one of the LNG facilities in the United States has reduced American LNG supplies. EU's plan to restart coal and nuclear powerplants to make up for the shortfall from gas fired power plants have also run in to obstacles.

[Lucius]

~snip~

Regardless of all the problems, the EU has much greater financial power than some other parts of the world and currently manages to import large quantities of gas from various sources (mainly the US). It is true that the fire at Freeport LNG slightly reduced US capacity, but for now this does not affect gas deliveries to the EU.

The EU is in trouble and must act quickly, but the problem also arises for other countries that will no longer be able to pay a price that will compete with the one paid by the EU - and the seller will no doubt sell to the highest bidder.

[TopTort777]

What is the point of that deal, if people will get huge bills anyway? What those countries plan to do with unused (cut) gas ? Resell it? Europe planned to buy less gas? They want to use that saved gas next winter? Tricky gas companies - every year they show reports with huge profit. Why not take part of them and use to cover expensive gas? Or give discounts for gas users.

[Z-tight]

At this point, the EU is banking on hypothetical scenarios. They are assuming that they will be able to secure more gas supplies from non-Russian sources such as the United States and will be able to lower the gas consumption within the EU by a large amount. And there is no guarantee that things will go as planned. For example, the fire at one of the LNG facilities in the United States has reduced American LNG supplies. EU's plan to restart coal and nuclear powerplants to make up for the shortfall from gas fired power plants have also run in to obstacles.

Cutting off supply of gas from Russian sources to the EU isn't going to be easy, i am so sure the EU know it will cause scarcity and it will cost more because this is not the usual route, but i guess it is an action that has been forced upon them, and rather than continually bend to some demands, like paying Russia in Rubles for its gas, they are exploring other sources.

Truth be told there are no guarantees to what they want to do, if it will even come in a sufficient quantity, but i feel they have to try, maybe not only for the sake of the present, but for the future, if the EU does not make an effort to break out from their dependence on Russia for gas, it may create future problems for them, going by how Russia takes some of its decisions.

[iv4n]

What is the point of that deal, if people will get huge bills anyway? What those countries plan to do with unused (cut) gas ? Resell it? Europe planned to buy less gas? They want to use that saved gas next winter? Tricky gas companies - every year they show reports with huge profit. Why not take part of them and use to cover expensive gas? Or give discounts for gas users.

What's the point of all this mess? I read some funny headlines these days, and to be honest, I don't believe in anything! Winter is coming, that's a fact... again poor people will be on the edge, I don't worry about rich ones! So what's the point? Do rich ones need slaves? Is that the system?

EU countries don't know where they are if you ask me... they need Russia, but they depend on the US as well! At least most of them... It's the same in my country, I guess they took money from both sides and now they don't know on which chair they need to sit! And choice always comes with benefits and consequences!

It's a shit show, they are selling weapons on both sides and they are making tons of money while incent people get hurt, as always... that happens around the world for decades, centuries...

[Sithara007]

Cutting off supply of gas from Russian sources to the EU isn't going to be easy, i am so sure the EU know it will cause scarcity and it will cost more because this is not the usual route, but i guess it is an action that has been forced upon them, and rather than continually bend to some demands, like paying Russia in Rubles for its gas, they are exploring other sources.

Truth be told there are no guarantees to what they want to do, if it will even come in a sufficient quantity, but i feel they have to try, maybe not only for the sake of the present, but for the future, if the EU does not make an effort to break out from their dependence on Russia for gas, it may create future problems for them, going by how Russia takes some of its decisions.

Russia has been a reliable supplier of natural gas to Europe for more than 4 decades (since the Ostpolitik days). The current crisis was created solely by Europe. What is the need for them to intervene in an issue between Russia and Ukraine? Ukraine didn't even had EU candidacy status when this war started. And from what I can see, this is hurting Europe much more than Russia. European gas prices have gone through the roof, while Russia is still able to get higher revenues as a result of increased prices.

[Ozero]

Cutting off supply of gas from Russian sources to the EU isn't going to be easy, i am so sure the EU know it will cause scarcity and it will cost more because this is not the usual route, but i guess it is an action that has been forced upon them, and rather than continually bend to some demands, like paying Russia in Rubles for its gas, they are exploring other sources.

Truth be told there are no guarantees to what they want to do, if it will even come in a sufficient quantity, but i feel they have to try, maybe not only for the sake of the present, but for the future, if the EU does not make an effort to break out from their dependence on Russia for gas, it may create future problems for them, going by how Russia takes some of its decisions.

Russia has been a reliable supplier of natural gas to Europe for more than 4 decades (since the Ostpolitik days). The current crisis was created solely by Europe. What is the need for them to intervene in an issue between Russia and Ukraine? Ukraine didn't even had EU candidacy status when this war started. And from what I can see, this is hurting Europe much more than Russia. European gas prices have gone through the roof, while Russia is still able to get higher revenues as a result of increased prices.

The countries of Europe have just come to a consensus that Russia is an unreliable supplier of gas and is now using it as a weapon and blackmail.  Moreover, he does this every time to achieve his economic or political goals.  Now Russia itself has limited gas supplies to 12 European countries, while violating agreements previously signed with them.  Taking into account the fact that Russia attacked Ukraine and is waging a war of conquest, destroying infrastructure and civilians in Ukraine, a decision has been made to get rid of energy dependence on Russia once and for all.

 Europe cannot be an outside observer of an aggressive attack on Ukraine, Russia’s violation of all conceivable international agreements, since, following Ukraine, Russia is already openly threatening war to the Baltic countries and Poland, and recently to Kazakhstan, Georgia and Moldova.

 The EU countries are now deliberately going to some restrictions and economic losses in order to reorient themselves to other suppliers and solve this problem forever.  Gas and oil prices have now skyrocketed, but this is temporary until Europe gets its supplies of energy from countries other than Russia.  But Russia itself will end up losing much more in the long run.

[tygeade]

I agree that this is their only choice, however this is going to affect their citizens a lot, with a lower supply even if the demand is somehow artificially lowered the price of gas will go up since there are limits to how much they can lower their consumption, so the EU better hopes that the winter that is coming is benevolent with them otherwise they may face shortages which will put the lives of some people at risk at the regions where the cold is the harshest.

At this point, the EU is banking on hypothetical scenarios. They are assuming that they will be able to secure more gas supplies from non-Russian sources such as the United States and will be able to lower the gas consumption within the EU by a large amount. And there is no guarantee that things will go as planned. For example, the fire at one of the LNG facilities in the United States has reduced American LNG supplies. EU's plan to restart coal and nuclear powerplants to make up for the shortfall from gas fired power plants have also run in to obstacles.

I am not saying that it would be enough because we all know it won't be enough and there will be shortage, that is as clear as day. But, when nations get together to decide on ruining another nation, that matters more to them then giving up gas. They can give up gas, oil, wheat and many other things just to make sure that Russia doesn't kill any more Ukrainians.

If you allow them to continue to do this, then what does it say about another nation killing some other innocent people? If you allow Russia to do this, then you are telling the world that it is okay and nobody will mind and we will keep buying more from you. So sanctions do matter, cutting gas do matter, not working with Russia ever again do matter because it is sending a message.

[NotATether]

This is about using gas as an economical/political weapon to damage the life of the average European citizen, make them stop living and turn them to "survival mode", in other words, decreasing that living stardard.

So this world gets a bravo now.

Once upon a time the only weapons created - rockets, atomic bombs, etc. - were against militaries. Now we have succeeded in creating weapons that hurt absolutely nobody except for people who have nothing to do with the conflicts.

Think information warfare, hacks, "gas weapons", "climate weapon", and the 100 other ridiculous weapons that the news says that Russia invented.

Insert hardest facepalm here

[mm2543363580]

I agree that this is their only choice, however this is going to affect their citizens a lot, with a lower supply even if the demand is somehow artificially lowered the price of gas will go up since there are limits to how much they can lower their consumption, so the EU better hopes that the winter that is coming is benevolent with them otherwise they may face shortages which will put the lives of some people at risk at the regions where the cold is the harshest.

At this point, the EU is banking on hypothetical scenarios. They are assuming that they will be able to secure more gas supplies from non-Russian sources such as the United States and will be able to lower the gas consumption within the EU by a large amount. And there is no guarantee that things will go as planned. For example, the fire at one of the LNG facilities in the United States has reduced American LNG supplies. EU's plan to restart coal and nuclear powerplants to make up for the shortfall from gas fired power plants have also run in to obstacles.

I am not saying that it would be enough because we all know it won't be enough and there will be shortage, that is as clear as day. But, when nations get together to decide on ruining another nation, that matters more to them then giving up gas. They can give up gas, oil, wheat and many other things just to make sure that Russia doesn't kill any more Ukrainians.

If you allow them to continue to do this, then what does it say about another nation killing some other innocent people? If you allow Russia to do this, then you are telling the world that it is okay and nobody will mind and we will keep buying more from you. So sanctions do matter, cutting gas do matter, not working with Russia ever again do matter because it is sending a message.

Hola. We have a new topic coming in . . Taiwan and China. Now China is getting ready to strike Taiwan and US representative have reached Taiwan to show their support like the way they have shown their support to Ukraine. And placed the whole world in the whirlpool of inflation. Now there is another emerging. And it will be another mess soon.
Let's get ready.

[Sithara007]

Hola. We have a new topic coming in . . Taiwan and China. Now China is getting ready to strike Taiwan and US representative have reached Taiwan to show their support like the way they have shown their support to Ukraine. And placed the whole world in the whirlpool of inflation. Now there is another emerging. And it will be another mess soon.
Let's get ready.

Biden as the president has been a disaster so far for the United States. One of his first steps after assuming power was to cancel Keystone XL, and to prohibit fracking on federal lands. Crude oil prices immediately went up to $90-$100 per barrel. This strengthened the Russian treasury and probably was one of the reasons why they invaded Ukraine. And now they are provoking China, which took a neutral stance so far in the Russo-Ukrainian war. These reckless actions by Pelosi and Co will just force China to openly come out in support for Russia.

[TopTort777]

I will have a good laugh if in situation, if China attacks Taiwan, countries will put sanctions against China, and business wont work with China again. Without China, every production in every country would stop. And gas problem would be less important problem among all others.

"Cut use of gas this winter" - yes please. I am fed up with that super heat from radiators. Even if I turn them off partly, I will open windows and heat the street, because +24+25C is unbearable.

[DrBeer]

The countries of Europe have just come to a consensus that Russia is an unreliable supplier of gas and is now using it as a weapon and blackmail.  Moreover, he does this every time to achieve his economic or political goals.  Now Russia itself has limited gas supplies to 12 European countries, while violating agreements previously signed with them.  Taking into account the fact that Russia attacked Ukraine and is waging a war of conquest, destroying infrastructure and civilians in Ukraine, a decision has been made to get rid of energy dependence on Russia once and for all.

 Europe cannot be an outside observer of an aggressive attack on Ukraine, Russia’s violation of all conceivable international agreements, since, following Ukraine, Russia is already openly threatening war to the Baltic countries and Poland, and recently to Kazakhstan, Georgia and Moldova.

 The EU countries are now deliberately going to some restrictions and economic losses in order to reorient themselves to other suppliers and solve this problem forever.  Gas and oil prices have now skyrocketed, but this is temporary until Europe gets its supplies of energy from countries other than Russia.  But Russia itself will end up losing much more in the long run.

The best solution that could ever be! Finally, they realized who they were "dealing with"! I am glad that pragmatism and common sense won, for a real assessment of the situation, and making such a difficult decision! I am sure that now the EU will begin to take real and noticeable steps in order to completely break off energy relations with Russia - an international terrorist country!

[Hamza2424]

If you are saying then it might be possible as i don't know the reason behind it so lets see, its looking too hard as Gas plays a massive role in the development more over the time in power generation sometimes in transport and also textile industry relies on the gas. EU countries has many other options as well in their development ways but complete cut down is looking about tooo hard for now.

[goaldigger]

If you are saying then it might be possible as i don't know the reason behind it so lets see, its looking too hard as Gas plays a massive role in the development more over the time in power generation sometimes in transport and also textile industry relies on the gas. EU countries has many other options as well in their development ways but complete cut down is looking about tooo hard for now.

The main reason is the supply chain, Russia is their bigger supplier of Gas and since they impose sanctions they also have to suffer for the consequences and look for alternatives. This is a wake up call for EU not to rely on any specific country especially if its not their ally. Cutting the use of gas in winter can’t give rewarding result because this is just for their short term solution, what about in the coming years? Are they going to stop the sanctions with Russia and ties again with them? These are the questions EU citizen should ask.

[paxmao]

BTW, I checked the live gas prices from EU, and right now, they are trading at around $2,000 per thousand cubic meters. Two years ago, natural gas was trading at less than $100 per thousand cubic meters.

Two dollars per cubic meter of gas at the hub is already very expensive. To heat a medium-sized house in winter with a gas boiler, you need to burn about 500 cubic meters of gas per month. I think many households in Europe will need subsidies to cope with heating and electricity bills.

For Europe this means turning the heat from 23C to 19C, that is a saving of 25% and that is all the "pressure" that the people are going to feel for this matter. It is much worse the effect in industry so EUs mitigations will drive the resources available towards the industry and use other energies to heat homes.

That is only true for a few nations though, UK, Spain, Italy, France... they won't notice much other than price.

[Sithara007]

For Europe this means turning the heat from 23C to 19C, that is a saving of 25% and that is all the "pressure" that the people are going to feel for this matter. It is much worse the effect in industry so EUs mitigations will drive the resources available towards the industry and use other energies to heat homes.

That is only true for a few nations though, UK, Spain, Italy, France... they won't notice much other than price.

Everyone is focusing on domestic consumption. But the big issue IMO is related to industries. In countries such as Germany, the heavy industries can't survive for long without cheap gas. And if they close down, then products from China will be able to replace them in the market. Already major manufacturers such as BASF have closed down many of their units. And this is not a short term problem. Even if they are able to resume production within a few months, there is no guarantee that the market share will remain the same.

[bittraffic]

For Europe this means turning the heat from 23C to 19C, that is a saving of 25% and that is all the "pressure" that the people are going to feel for this matter. It is much worse the effect in industry so EUs mitigations will drive the resources available towards the industry and use other energies to heat homes.

That is only true for a few nations though, UK, Spain, Italy, France... they won't notice much other than price.

Everyone is focusing on domestic consumption. But the big issue IMO is related to industries. In countries such as Germany, the heavy industries can't survive for long without cheap gas. And if they close down, then products from China will be able to replace them in the market. Already major manufacturers such as BASF have closed down many of their units. And this is not a short term problem. Even if they are able to resume production within a few months, there is no guarantee that the market share will remain the same.

Their gas supply will come from Nigeria soon because according to one piece of news I've seen on TV just recently, they were working day and night to build the pipeline going to Europe. This is quite good news for them. They then can completely abandon Russian gas. This is a game changer in this situation and by this, Germany can continue manufacturing soon.

They are rampingit up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ifVry9f38I

[tbterryboy]

This is about using gas as an economical/political weapon to damage the life of the average European citizen, make them stop living and turn them to "survival mode", in other words, decreasing that living stardard.

So this world gets a bravo now.

Once upon a time the only weapons created - rockets, atomic bombs, etc. - were against militaries. Now we have succeeded in creating weapons that hurt absolutely nobody except for people who have nothing to do with the conflicts.

Think information warfare, hacks, "gas weapons", "climate weapon", and the 100 other ridiculous weapons that the news says that Russia invented.

Insert hardest facepalm here

You are both right, but also not right at the same time, depends on where you are sitting obviously. If you are Europe, then you realize that if you stop using gas, that will hurt your own people more than it will hurt Russia, but it WILL hurt Russia and that is what they want, you can't just waltz in another nation and say "hey there are Russians here, we will take this land" and get away with it, if that is the case then we will have conflicts all over the world because there are nations and races overlapping each other all around the world, hell half of south USA would become Mexican tomorrow if that was a good reason.

Hence, while it’s bad to hurt innocent people of your opponent, hurting your own people to send a message could be seen as leadership.

[DrBeer]

The problem is that some part of the EU has been flirting with the global gopnik and terrorist for a long time. Yes, the Kremlin paid a lot of bribes, corrupted the supreme power of the EU and many international institutions. But .. an epiphany has come! Finally, even Germany, bound by a huge corrupt connection with the Kremlin, realized that further playing into the hands of the Kremlin would mean killing its own economy, at least. But as the saying goes, "better late than never"! And now the world is starting to turn its back on hydrocarbons from Russia. Someone immediately solved the problem (those who were not mired in Kremlin corruption), someone didn’t get hooked at all, and someone will have to “tighten their belt” for a couple of years in order to “pay for” toxic friendship with a terrorist country, a pariah country. On a global scale, it will take 2-5 years for the TOTAL rejection of the terrorist country's hydrocarbons. But then, I hope, no one will repeat the mistakes, and before choosing partners for strategic projects, they will first of all think about the interests of their country, honor, legality, and not about filling their pockets.
The world has been vaccinated against the terrible disease "connection with the toxic regime", the world is changing!