NFT subforum?

[Fivestar4everMVP]

There were many more discussion for this but I have never seen a reply from theymos, I can't remember. I think he isn't interested.

The forum is centralized we all understand this, But when it comes to matters like this, i think that the forum users choice should be the top priority to Theymos, since without the users of the forum, there is actually no forum.

I am also in support of implementing an NFT subforum, many of us, including myself might not be really interest in NFTs, but this does not change the fact that NFTs have become a hot topic of discussion in the crypto currency space, creating NFT subforum on Bitcointalk will not only give the forum more exposure out there, it will also enlarge the forum in terms of users and things to be discussed.

[Rikafip]

Yeah but our intention was to clear to make some order in our local forum, making it better and cleaner.

Those asking for NFT subforum probably have the same intention. Anyway, my point was that people shouldn't stop asking for new subforums/features/merit source positions as sometimes those requests are approved.

With NFT board I would expect mostly spammers posting their new ''art'' projects.

Probably, if that subforum gets moderated the way rest of the altcoin section is. Imho, altcoin section should either be completely closed or properly cleaned and reorganized because at the current state it doesn't serve any purpose. As I said in my previous post, I do think that bitcointalk is missing opportunity to attract those who are more into altcoins and turn them into bitcoiners.

[bbc.reporter]

@Rikafip. I would argue for reorganization and properly cleaned. There is much development to talk about concerning altcoins, Defi and how they are presently being merged with NFTs. Also, why can we not make bitcointalk.org's altcoin subforums be one of the best sources of information for the investors and the cryptospace community?

[malcovi2]

I really think we also need a subforum for NFT. I saw a rug pull nft thread in the bitcoin marketplace section where it shouldn't be because it is using the BNB chain.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5399355.msg60678728#msg60678728

Also i am planning to make an nft in the forum but I don't know know where to create the thread in the right section.

[BlackHatCoiner]

You understand that old sports cards have value, right?

Flawed comparison.

Old sport cards have a physical beingness, oppose to digital images of old sport cards. Nobody can take my baseball card, view it, change it, touch it, play with it etc, without my permission. On the other hand, the person who sold me the NFT, and every other person who does have the image/video, can and have every right to do those things, because there's no law that forbids it; and even if there was, there's no way to detect such "malicious" behavior.

Owning an NFT provides no tangible benefits.

[nutildah]

You understand that old sports cards have value, right?

Flawed comparison.

Old sport cards have a physical beingness, oppose to digital images of old sport cards. Nobody can take my baseball card, view it, change it, touch it, play with it etc, without my permission. On the other hand, the person who sold me the NFT, and every other person who does have the image/video, can and have every right to do those things, because there's no law that forbids it; and even if there was, there's no way to detect such "malicious" behavior.

Owning an NFT provides no tangible benefits.

Nearly every quality of a baseball card you just mentioned can be recreated digitally, and applies to the fundamental properties of cryptocurrency.

- nobody can take your NFT if you are the only one who holds the private key for the address at which it is stored, and you are the only one who can move it (other people can still view it; dunno how you "play" with sportscards)

- NFT metadata can be permanently locked so it can't be altered, and there are certainly ways to figure out if it is still editable.

- perhaps most importantly, nobody can alter or forge the blockchain transactions of an NFT as they apply to its mint date and ownership history.

There's a multi-hundred-million dollar industry that revolves around crypto collectibles. People value them regardless of whether or not they provide "tangible benefits."

[BlackHatCoiner]

nobody can take your NFT if you are the only one who holds the private key for the address at which it is stored

That is the same as saying "Nobody can take your baseball card's receipt". Okay, sure. I've stated I own the hash, but isn't the card the product?

- NFT metadata can be permanently locked so it can't be altered, and there are certainly ways to figure out if it is still editable.

The only thing that can't be altered is the hash's ownership. The image can be used for any purpose with no owner's permission.

There's a multi-hundred-million dollar industry that revolves around crypto collectibles. People value them regardless of whether or not they provide "tangible benefits."

Scraping the barrel, aren't we? 

[nutildah]

nobody can take your NFT if you are the only one who holds the private key for the address at which it is stored

That is the same as saying "Nobody can take your baseball card's receipt". Okay, sure. I've stated I own the hash, but isn't the card the product?

- NFT metadata can be permanently locked so it can't be altered, and there are certainly ways to figure out if it is still editable.

The only thing that can't be altered is the hash's ownership. The image can be used for any purpose with no owner's permission.

There's a multi-hundred-million dollar industry that revolves around crypto collectibles. People value them regardless of whether or not they provide "tangible benefits."

Scraping the barrel, aren't we?  

The NFT is the product.

If I transfer ownership of the metadata to a burn address (which can be done independent of sending the corresponding NFT to a burn address), that data cannot be altered. You can also make counterfeit baseball cards and sell those without permission.

You want to control the definition of what "tangible benefits" entail, and I'm not about to bother arguing with you about that. Your arguments against NFTs are the same ones that no-coiners have been making against bitcoin for years.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The NFT is the product.

The NFT is the product's fingerprint. There's no product saved in the blockchain, nor the bytes that represent it. It's just a hash of it; a unique number that works as the identifier.

If I transfer ownership of the metadata to a burn address (which can be done independent of sending the corresponding NFT to a burn address), that data cannot be altered.

If you transfer ownership to a burn address, it'll essentially mean you're "burning" the rights. The data (which is the image) can normally change, whether you "officially possess" its hash or not.

You can also make counterfeit baseball cards and sell those without permission.

Being counterfeited is irrelevant. You can have your private keys counterfeited by the same reasoning.

Your arguments against NFTs are the same ones that no-coiners have been making against bitcoin for years.

No, they're not. A bitcoin isn't an unlicensed identifier of an asset. It's itself an asset.

[nutildah]

In addition to selling plenty of image tokens, I've sold thousands of tokens without an image at all -- simply based on the name of the token and its mint date, which cannot be changed. That's because the token is the product.

You're simply incorrect in continuing to insist that "the data can normally change" for all NFTs. For some, yes. There's an entire blockchain whose NFT-associated data is stored in IPFS -- these entries are immutable and cannot be changed. Separately, once an image hash is created, it can and will only correspond with the particular image from which it was created. Transferring ownership of a token's metadata to a burn address assures that metadata cannot be changed, and again, this is different than transferring the token itself.

The private key is what you need to move the NFT. There is no private key for a baseball card, just there is no private key for a dollar bill. The analogy is more like minting a counterfeit Bored Ape. If you know what to look for it's easy to tell its a counterfeit, but you can still try to sell it, and nobody can stop you (without the involvement of some kind of authorities).

I don't even know what an "unlicensed identifier" means... All bitcoins in existence are "unlicensed." They just are. They require no license to exist.

Please read before responding:

https://jpjanssen.com/8-reasons-olga-is-worth-%E2%82%BF88/

It's a token that does not point at an external image file, and nothing about its inherent properties that make it valuable to collectors can be altered. Now, he might not get 88 BTC for it, but it is nevertheless worth big bucks as a highly-desirable crypto collectible, independent of your personal opinion of its value.



https://fullycrypto.com/hal-finney-1993-email-foresaw-nfts

[BlackHatCoiner]

simply based on the name of the token and its mint date, which cannot be changed.

So, is it like a ticket? Like saying "I, nutildah, give the number 1,000 to Bob". Can Bob redeem it somehow? For example, in a store? This can have a utility, although it can work centrally more efficiently.

You're simply incorrect in continuing to insist that "the data can normally change" for all NFTs.

Data that is stored in the blockchain can't be changed (although it can be edited locally). That wasn't my point. My point was: It doesn't hold water to buy the proof that you own something, when that something is publicly accessible and can be utilized without your permission.

Transferring ownership of a token's metadata to a burn address assures that metadata cannot be changed

This sounds like just an OP_RETURN message.

I don't even know what an "unlicensed identifier" means... All bitcoins in existence are "unlicensed." They just are. They require no license to exist.

They require no license to exist, because they're not liabilities, opposed to NFTs that work as contracts. No one can utilize my bitcoin without my private key, but everyone can utilize the image whose rights I'm supposedly and community-exclusively selling, without any private key.

It's a token that does not point at an external image file, and nothing about its inherent properties that make it valuable to collectors can be altered.

It doesn't matter if it's internal or external. Everyone can access it and enjoy the benefits of utilizing the image without owning the token. Sorry, but I can't see the value you do. Maybe I'm wrong.

[nutildah]

Feels like we're going in circles now as you continue to insist the token isn't the product.

Sorry, but I can't see the value you do. Maybe I'm wrong.

Just as with the price of bitcoin, it doesn't matter what you or I see its value as so much as what the market sees it as.

I tried to help you get a glimpse of where this comes from, that's about all I can do.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Just as with the price of bitcoin, it doesn't matter what you or I see its value as so much as what the market sees it as.

I acknowledge that the market sees value. Granted. I'm just questioning its usefulness.

[UmerIdrees]

Using that as an argument, bitcointalk.org has welcomed altcoins and created subforums for them for everyone to discuss, speculate and for people to help each other. Can the forum also welcome NFTs and also create subforums for NFT discussion, speculation and information sharing?

Someday you will argue to make a sub-forum for Defi and MetaVerse also  

This is indeed not a good idea as all of this stuff can be covered within the altcoin section and there is no need to create sub-forums for every category of altcoins. Also, we should not forget that this is first a bitcoin forum and altcoin is just a section in this forum.

[aoluain]

I wasnt aware that this was discussed before on the forum!

Anyway, yes I would be in favour of a child board of the Goods board just like the
Collectibles Child board. The two boards would be interlinked, many physical
items are loaded with NFT's.

@sweeteye created a thread recently about this topic in the Collectibles board >
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411201.msg60825838#msg60825838

Hey all,

Would love your opinion on this.
I'm spending an increasing amount of time in the counterparty/XCP (bitcoin blockchain) collectible space and while there are channels and web marketplaces for artist's to sell their physical work, I think that this may also be a place given some of our past sales history and our collective community proclivity.

Several of the XCP artists I'm in touch with may be interested in listing their physical work here - an original painting, drawing or rendering of their NFT, or of other artists work that they've been gifted, bought or traded for - all XCP/BTC project based, and in my estimation, all collectible.

As my first love (and collection) is art, I'm compelled to support some of these artists here if there's a market and interest from our community.

Would love opinions and am open to suggestions as well.

Thanks.

sweeteye

From the thread its clear that there is a massive community of makers and collectors
of NFT's out there and while the space may be in decline I would guess its finding its realistic level
while speculation levels out and
the real collectors stay.

Just my 2 sats

[OgNasty]

TL;DR - We already have an NFT section.

Tokens (Altcoins)

As has already been pointed out on this thread, there is an NFT section.  It's just that nobody cares to dig through the shitcoins sections to find it.  I even made a post about an NFT collection today.  You can't make people care though.  If a free NFT project from Mila Kunis and Seth Green can't get a response here, you have to wonder if there's really demand to learn about NFTs or if people just want another outlet to try and sell you stuff they made for free.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5393118.0

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Is NFT a cryptocurrency? I still don't fully understand what it is.

Try to read and get informed about them but they are technically tokens and when know token don't not have their own blockchain and have to rely on another blockchain like Ethereum or the likes of solana.

I don't know why this topic keeps pooping up but NFTs are tokens and we already have a tokens board. I wonder why people think NFTs are any special from SHIB or BABY DOGE 

[Lafu]

Try to read and get informed about them but they are technically tokens and when know token don't not have their own blockchain and have to rely on another blockchain like Ethereum or the likes of solana.
I don't know why this topic keeps pooping up but NFTs are tokens and we already have a tokens board. I wonder why people think NFTs are any special from SHIB or BABY DOGE 

I agree and you are fully right , they all run on a tokens blockchain.
The next issue i guess we will see even when we should get a NFT Subforum (what i think we dont get) is that the most dosnt post there Topics there.
Because the Token board is already for long time here now and most of the Topics gets done in the Altcoins Board , dont know why but its possible that a few Topicstarter cant read "Token".

[nutildah]

As has already been pointed out on this thread, there is an NFT section.  It's just that nobody cares to dig through the shitcoins sections to find it.  I even made a post about an NFT collection today.  You can't make people care though.  If a free NFT project from Mila Kunis and Seth Green can't get a response here, you have to wonder if there's really demand to learn about NFTs or if people just want another outlet to try and sell you stuff they made for free.

Here's the problem with this:

Not all NFTs are on altcoin blockchains.

Arguably, some of the best NFTs are on Bitcoin. So relegating their discussion to Altcoin Announcements -> Tokens doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


I'd like to know where this thread should be, and I won't accept Tokens (Altcoins) as an answer, because they are in no way "altcoin tokens":

Forum NFTs - immortalize your profile on the BTC blockchain

I initially posted it in Goods, which I thought was reasonable, but then it was moved to Tokens. What I'm really trying to create are collectibles, though I understand that sub-board is mostly physical items.

These are Bitcoin goods, for sale for BTC. They are unique items -- nobody here has done anything like this before, except for maybe theymos (the main difference is my NFTs are real). They are not altcoins. So what's the best place for this topic?

[nutildah]

@OgNasty
@hilariousandco

Yo why you guys do me dirty.

My thread has nothing to do with Altcoin Tokens. Please think about it.

This event makes it obvious why we need an NFT board. It could attract a new breed of users and breathe fresh life into an otherwise musty museum.

In the meantime, any good reason why I shouldn't move this thread to Collectibles? After all, this is what I'm trying to create: a unique, forum-specific collectable that is made using Bitcoin, purchasable with Bitcoin.

Speak now or forever hold your piece...