Hyundai rolls out 27 heavy-duty hydrogen trucks in Germany

[Hydrogen]

More hydrogen-powered trucks will take to the road in Europe this week thanks to funding from the German government, which will support the rollout of 27  heavy-duty Xcient Fuel Cell trucks by Hyundai to a group of seven German companies.

The seven German companies working in logistics, manufacturing, and retail will put 27 Xcient Fuel Cell trucks into their fleets in the future thanks to funding for eco-friendly commercial vehicles from Germany’s Federal Ministry for Digital and Transport (BMDV).

While hydrogen fuel cell transport is probably not viable for mass private transport, and making it uses more electricity than simply supplying the electrons to batteries alone, many believe it has a place in long haul and heavy transport.

Hyundai – which in its release did not clarify if the fuel cells would be charged with “green” hydrogen, using 100 per cent renewables – plans to utilise the launch of these new Xcient trucks as an opportunity to further expand its business into the wider European commercial vehicle market.

The 27 new Xcient trucks follow 47 units which have already been deployed in Switzerland – the first 10 of which were delivered in mid-2020 – and have already clocked up over 4 million kilometres.

The Xcient Fuel Cell heavy-duty trucks are equipped with a 180kW hydrogen fuel cell system made up of two 90kW fuel cell stacks, delivering power to a 350kW motor with maximum torque of 2,237Nm.

The hydrogen used to power the truck is stored in seven large hydrogen tanks which offer a combined storage capacity of around 31kg of fuel, while a 72kWh set of three batteries provides an additional source of power.

All in all, a Hyundai Xcient Fuel Cell truck boasts a maximum driving range of 400km per charge and refuelling a tank of hydrogen only takes between 8 to 20 minutes, depending on the ambient temperature.



https://thedriven.io/2022/08/04/hyundai-rolls-out-27-heavy-duty-hydrogen-trucks-in-germany/

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This is generally viewed as easing the cost of shipping and products in a country.

But there is another angle to it. The existing gasoline infrasructure can be used to transport and store hydrogen fuel. Trucks used to transport gasoline across the country, can be used to transport hydrogen fuel. Gas station fuel tanks that normally store gasoline. Can also be used to store hydrogen.

As the cost of fossil fuels rise, alternative energy options like hydrogen become more viable. At a certain tipping point, shipping and transportation become more affordable via hydrogen fuel than gasoline. And the existing infrastructure being accommodating to hydrogen without major modifications certainly helps.

The main obstacle would be lack of domestic hydrogen fuel generation. Catalysts to generate hydrogen more efficiently have been like a holy grail for researchers. A hydrogen based economy has been touted as one potential clean energy option for the future. Perhaps circumstances are aligned now to make it a reality. What do people think.

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[hatshepsut93]

This is a very interesting topic. This article says that most of the world's hydrogen is made from methane, which results in carbon dioxide being released to the atmosphere, as opposed to electrolysis which is entirely clean. I personally think countries should be investing in nuclear energy and bringing the costs of electricity down to make hydrogen more attractive. 

[edgycorner]

The main obstacle would be lack of domestic hydrogen fuel generation. Catalysts to generate hydrogen more efficiently have been like a holy grail for researchers. A hydrogen based economy has been touted as one potential clean energy option for the future. Perhaps the circumstances are aligned now to make it a reality. What do people think.

This sums it up. We still need to resolve its production. AFAIK, hydrogen as a fuel is still made from fossil fuels.

If we can somehow generate green H2 in a viable manner(electrolysis   ). Given how much potential chemical energy hydrogen has, idk how it's going to be done(but this is why we got researchers with billions of funding on it  )

[so98nn]

Fun reading how we talk about green applications of something but then when we are going back to the basic science of it, there is always that one step involved which is creating green house gases. Lolz. One energy to another energy, no destruction. We are either converting the energy to more powerful or more cleaner form but it seems there is no way it's 100% green!
Whether you go for electrolysis or other forms of chemical reaction there always one element and step involved which is making it less uncomfortable with the goal. Like use of methane, which is done with steam-methane electrolysis but in the process it does releases the carbon.

This is similar to: Charging your Tesla from the electricity which was generated far on hilly station power plant running on charcoal burning.

[adaseb]

Right now, I am pretty sure it takes more energy to create hydrogen than actually what the energy it will put out. There is hydrogen everywhere but the problem is extracting it. They have been building hydrogen cars for a few decades already, because they are doing reason and hope that one day someone will discover a way to extract the hydrogen in an efficient way, so far we havent gotten that far.

Its interesting what they are doing. However when you look into it and investigate, its not really that environmentaly friendly as people think. Out of the tailpipe its clean, however to produce this hydrogen is not very eco friendly

[Gyfts]

At this point, German officials really deserve all the scorn they can possibly receive: https://theconversation.com/hydrogen-cars-wont-overtake-electric-vehicles-because-theyre-hampered-by-the-laws-of-science-139899

The reason why hydrogen is inefficient is because the energy must move from wire to gas to wire in order to power a car. This is sometimes called the energy vector transition.

Let’s take 100 watts of electricity produced by a renewable source such as a wind turbine. To power an FCEV, that energy has to be converted into hydrogen, possibly by passing it through water (the electrolysis process). This is around 75% energy-efficient, so around one-quarter of the electricity is automatically lost.

The hydrogen produced has to be compressed, chilled and transported to the hydrogen station, a process that is around 90% efficient. Once inside the vehicle, the hydrogen needs converted into electricity, which is 60% efficient. Finally the electricity used in the motor to move the vehicle is is around 95% efficient. Put together, only 38% of the original electricity – 38 watts out of 100 – are used.

Hydrogen produced vehicles are not the future. They're dangerous and not efficient. Instead of providing reliable energy through oil and gas with existing infrastructure, they continue to invest in unreliable green energy initiatives at a time when Germans might be facing freezing in the winter. I hope Germans are not celebrating these sort of accomplishments.

[Lucius]

Hydrogen produced vehicles are not the future. They're dangerous and not efficient. Instead of providing reliable energy through oil and gas with existing infrastructure, they continue to invest in unreliable green energy initiatives at a time when Germans might be facing freezing in the winter. I hope Germans are not celebrating these sort of accomplishments.

The Germans will not freeze during the coming winter, just as the residents of any other Western EU country will not freeze, because by then they will have enough gas from various sources. If anyone is going to freeze, these are only those countries that are not coping with the current situation.

I can't say what will one day be the ideal replacement for oil and gas, but I know that we can't rely on them forever because sooner or later their supplies will be used up. Accordingly, alternatives must be sought, or the world will one day stop because there will be no oil and gas that drives it today.

The filling of underground gas storages is very satisfactory, and as for Germany, it is currently over 71%, while Belgium has exceeded 78%, Denmark has reached almost 90%...


https://agsi.gie.eu/

[lovesmayfamilis]

I can't say what will one day be the ideal replacement for oil and gas, but I know that we can't rely on them forever because sooner or later their supplies will be used up. Accordingly, alternatives must be sought, or the world will one day stop because there will be no oil and gas that drives it today.

I agree. If we remove the current situation with gas supplies, one day it would still happen, the resources are not unlimited.  All new developments succeed in times of crisis. There is motivation to develop something new. As time shows, it's time to do it now. There is probably a period for something new, as happened with COVID. Countries were able to suppress this virus by finding a cure, proving to everyone that civilization does not stop there.

The same will happen with the alternative of using gas and oil. A good expression is, "What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

[Mometaskers]

I wonder how efficient using hydrogen could be. Like would it be the same as stockpiling and distributing gasoline would be. It'll be nice if the power from dams is enough to generate a good amount, especially for regions with fluctuating weather patterns.

This is a very interesting topic. This article says that most of the world's hydrogen is made from methane, which results in carbon dioxide being released to the atmosphere, as opposed to electrolysis which is entirely clean. I personally think countries should be investing in nuclear energy and bringing the costs of electricity down to make hydrogen more attractive. 

Aw that's bummer. I'm assuming electrolysis is more expensive. If only there's something that can be done to all the carbon dioxide released in the process.

[DrBeer]

This is generally viewed as easing the cost of shipping and products in a country.

But there is another angle to it. The existing gasoline infrasructure can be used to transport and store hydrogen fuel. Trucks used to transport gasoline across the country, can be used to transport hydrogen fuel. Gas station fuel tanks that normally store gasoline. Can also be used to store hydrogen.

As the cost of fossil fuels rise, alternative energy options like hydrogen become more viable. At a certain tipping point, shipping and transportation become more affordable via hydrogen fuel than gasoline. And the existing infrastructure being accommodating to hydrogen without major modifications certainly helps.

The main obstacle would be lack of domestic hydrogen fuel generation. Catalysts to generate hydrogen more efficiently have been like a holy grail for researchers. A hydrogen based economy has been touted as one potential clean energy option for the future. Perhaps circumstances are aligned now to make it a reality. What do people think.

You probably understand that in today's situation, the world has realized that oil / gas, most likely, will soon be used as a weapon to put pressure on countries, to force them to do something, in the end - economic terrorism. And moving away from significant dependence on oil / oil products and gas (and especially on monopolists) has become a matter of national security. Therefore, any alternative that reduces dependence on these resources will be more and more in demand. Hydrogen engines are one of the ways of such a solution, especially since the technology has already been "run-in" and can quickly and efficiently replace oil / gasoline / diesel very quickly and does not require huge investments for infrastructure construction, due to the use of existing gasoline networks

[dansus021]

Germany is always first in Renewable Energy, is good things but now disrupted by the war so they re-open their coal plant to keep the energy running.

But the card and truck industry right now is growing like crazy especially with electric to and new start up is drive the price cheaper

[bittraffic]

Hydrogen just has to be extracted from water (H2O) there is no need for it to be transported, water is everywhere. This is way more abundant than gasoline. It is however not very powerful as gasoline itself but sure it will be enough to power up Europe/Germany.

I've seen cars powered by hydrogen on youtube. It seems easy to modify those cars to work on hydrogen as it's just substituting the air fuel for combustion.

[NotATether]

More hydrogen-powered trucks will take to the road in Europe this week thanks to funding from the German government, which will support the rollout of 27  heavy-duty Xcient Fuel Cell trucks by Hyundai to a group of seven German companies.

This is generally viewed as easing the cost of shipping and products in a country.

So has nothing to do with natural gas then.

It's more like an attempt to relieve the global shipping and handling congestion that COVID-19 has caused.

[stompix]

Instead of providing reliable energy through oil and gas with existing infrastructure, they continue to invest in unreliable green energy initiatives at a time when Germans might be facing freezing in the winter. I hope Germans are not celebrating these sort of accomplishments.

Can we stop with this freezing nonsense, please? I don't know why everyone has this impression in winter every country in Europe is full of snow, reindeer clogging the autobahn, and sixteen feet of snow covering each house and people using sleds to go to work.

These are the temperatures recorded this January in Berlin:
https://www.accuweather.com/en/de/berlin/10178/january-weather/178087?year=2022
This is Munchen, deep in Bavaria:
https://www.accuweather.com/en/de/munich/80331/january-weather/178086?year=2022

with the lowest at night being just once -7 and half of the nights not going below freezing and even reaching 15C during the day, don't you think the whole freezing stuff should really end? Do you know that in February this year Paris hasn't seen temperatures drop below zero?
Let's fuking stop with this, Europe is no north pole or south pole,  temperatures recorded in some skiresorts have nothing to do with the average.

As for hydrogen itself, the author in that totally biased article forgets one thing, hydrogen can be made when you have excess power in the grid and can be used when you don't have enough, just like traditional pump and storage systems work! This is a great advantage of the system.

So has nothing to do with natural gas then.

Americans (assume Hydrogen is one) say gas, we use gasoline but more diesel or benzin here for it, that's where the confusion starts and everyone is talking about what he thinks gas stands for.

[Lucius]

Can we stop with this freezing nonsense, please? I don't know why everyone has this impression in winter every country in Europe is full of snow, reindeer clogging the autobahn, and sixteen feet of snow covering each house and people using sleds to go to work.

People look at idyllic pictures from European skiresorts, or maybe from the north of Europe where there is still a little more snow in winter than in the rest of Europe - and then they think that winters here are like they were in the past. And the whole story is additionally enhanced by the Russian propaganda machinery, which wants to scare Europeans that without Russian gas and oil they will freeze and that we will not be alive next spring.

To be honest, I don't remember the last time there was winter with more than 10-20 cm of snow, and when we had very low daily temperatures - and I hope that this year, given the situation, will not be an exception.

[Obito]

This is a very interesting topic. This article says that most of the world's hydrogen is made from methane, which results in carbon dioxide being released to the atmosphere, as opposed to electrolysis which is entirely clean. I personally think countries should be investing in nuclear energy and bringing the costs of electricity down to make hydrogen more attractive. 

I don't think nuclear energy is the best answer, not all countries have money to build and maintain nuclear power plants and we also have to worry about waste disposal too and it's astronomically expensive to do the safest and cleanest disposal of nuclear waste materials. Unless they find a solution to disposal, building and maintenance, nuclear power plant isn't the best option.

[sana54210]

This is generally viewed as easing the cost of shipping and products in a country.

But there is another angle to it. The existing gasoline infrasructure can be used to transport and store hydrogen fuel. Trucks used to transport gasoline across the country, can be used to transport hydrogen fuel. Gas station fuel tanks that normally store gasoline. Can also be used to store hydrogen.

As the cost of fossil fuels rise, alternative energy options like hydrogen become more viable. At a certain tipping point, shipping and transportation become more affordable via hydrogen fuel than gasoline. And the existing infrastructure being accommodating to hydrogen without major modifications certainly helps.

The main obstacle would be lack of domestic hydrogen fuel generation. Catalysts to generate hydrogen more efficiently have been like a holy grail for researchers. A hydrogen based economy has been touted as one potential clean energy option for the future. Perhaps circumstances are aligned now to make it a reality. What do people think.

There is this "risk" that people ignore, it is not a huge one and I agree with that, but it is still not tiny neither. Hydrogen is highly flammable, and oil is too, so if you have hydrogen truck carrying oil, that is going to be something giant, so assuming if it gets blown up, that is going to cause such a big ball of fire and explosion that it would hurt anyone even a mile from it, and kill anyone within a mile of it. So, that’s why I always refrained from supporting it.

But, if nothing goes wrong, it’s cheaper, it's cleaner, and it is definitely going to drop the price and help the economy recover and get back to a level where it's more reasonable instead of this unreal prices.

[DrBeer]

There is this "risk" that people ignore, it is not a huge one and I agree with that, but it is still not tiny neither. Hydrogen is highly flammable, and oil is too, so if you have hydrogen truck carrying oil, that is going to be something giant, so assuming if it gets blown up, that is going to cause such a big ball of fire and explosion that it would hurt anyone even a mile from it, and kill anyone within a mile of it. So, that’s why I always refrained from supporting it.

But, if nothing goes wrong, it’s cheaper, it's cleaner, and it is definitely going to drop the price and help the economy recover and get back to a level where it's more reasonable instead of this unreal prices.

I will surprise you now - gasoline and gas (propane / butane), which are used to operate internal combustion engines, ARE ALSO FIRE and EXPLOSIVE. They don't even need oil - just a spark!

Yes, and most importantly, in these cars, hydrogen works a little differently than, for example, an internal combustion engine that burns gas instead of gasoline, by direct injection of a gas mixture. There are fuel cells. This is an electrochemical device, a chemical current source that converts the chemical energy of fuel into electrical energy by a direct method. The electromotive force is generated in the fuel cell as a result of electrochemical processes from constantly incoming active substances. Those. no fire, no oil. You just need a reliable hydrogen storage tank. What they already know how to do for ordinary gas

[Sithara007]

This is a very interesting topic. This article says that most of the world's hydrogen is made from methane, which results in carbon dioxide being released to the atmosphere, as opposed to electrolysis which is entirely clean. I personally think countries should be investing in nuclear energy and bringing the costs of electricity down to make hydrogen more attractive. 

Doesn't make any sense. If this is true, then hydrogen run vehicles emit more carbon (indirectly) when compared to diesel run vehicles. And don't think that electrolysis can be a completely eco-friendly option. What if the electricity needed for this process comes from thermal power plants? I have said this for quite some time. At this point, nuclear energy seems to be the most ecofriendly option. Hydrogen is a good alternative, but the technology is not that advanced to implement it everywhere. Hyundai claims that the trucks will be having a range of 400km. That is under optimal conditions. After a few years, the range will get reduced to 200-300km, and that will result in some inconvenience for the drivers.