Tornado Cash mixing service is now blacklisted in US

[bitmover]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/08/crypto-mixing-service-tornado-cash-blacklisted-by-treasury-department-.html
Crypto mixing service Tornado Cash blacklisted by Treasury Department for alleged use in laundering


    The Treasury Department has sanctioned the popular cryptocurrency mixing service Tornado Cash for allegedly helping launder over $7 billion of virtual currency.
    The decision means that Americans are banned from using the service.
    Similar sanctions were imposed in May 2022 on another popular service, Blender.io.

....

However, enforcing such a move may be difficult for the government and overly restrictive, according to Coin Center, a nonprofit focused on crypto regulation. That’s because there’s no single person or entity behind the use of Tornado Cash, an open-source tool.

US just hit another mixer, the ethereum mixer Tornado cash.

What is interesting about this is that the service is actually a piece of code, which can be run locally or in another server.

https://tornado-cash.medium.com/tornado-cash-classic-ui-is-now-open-source-4b542b705a97

[PX-Z]

What is interesting about this is that the service is actually a piece of code, which can be run locally or in another server.

This the good thing of a decentralized platform, ^{(censorship-resistant)} authority can only suspends its website domain or hosting but it can still be used freely.
But since it's dependent to github repo, which can be sanctioned too like they did to Iran and other countries suspending github accounts or blocked the access of github with US request which they will do it lately, after realizing it's useless suspending only the website and not its whole process.
I hope there's also a decentralized code repositories ^{(better if there is already)} for decentralized platform's to preserve its codes.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Lol, Circle has apparently decided to ‘blacklists’ all Tornado Cash ETH addresses there by freezing USDC in them. This is an open warn against privacy and crypto in general 

Circle’s USDC has “blacklisted” all Ethereum addresses owned by Tornado Cash listed in the US Treasury Department’s sanction against the protocol.

A Twitter bot named USDC Blacklist, which scrapes the blockchain for USDC blocklists, highlighted the issue as it tweeted multiple times through Monday after the sanction was issued.

But since it's dependent to github repo, which can be sanctioned too like they did to Iran and other countries suspending github accounts or blocked the access of github with US request which they will do it lately,

They already did it


https://twitter.com/semenov_roman_/status/1556717890308653059

[PX-Z]

They already did it
/...

https://twitter.com/semenov_roman_/status/1556717890308653059

Ooof, now worst thing will happen if this cofounder or anyone who related founding tornado.cash, their twitter accounts will be suspended/restricted, will be charged and sentenced in prison too.

I checked radicle^{[1][2](accessed through mobile)} as a github alternative and its a bit popular based on twitter followers, i just don't know how it works, i see not code and repositories too.

[1] https://radicle.xyz
[2] https://radicle.network

[bbc.reporter]

What is interesting about this is that the service is actually a piece of code, which can be run locally or in another server.

This the good thing of a decentralized platform, ^{(censorship-resistant)} authority can only suspends its website domain or hosting but it can still be used freely.
But since it's dependent to github repo, which can be sanctioned too like they did to Iran and other countries suspending github accounts or blocked the access of github with US request which they will do it lately, after realizing it's useless suspending only the website and not its whole process.
I hope there's also a decentralized code repositories ^{(better if there is already)} for decentralized platform's to preserve its codes.

Nothing can stop Tornado Cash because the user can still interact with the smart contracts directly. I have not read all of the news, however, there are some people in social media who said that this is the first time a smart contract has been sanctioned. This implies that there is is a ban on interacting with the smart contract.

In any case, the solution will certainly be to fork Tornado Cash hehehe.

Also, this sanction will be a problem because it can be used against anyone. What if I use Tornado Cash then send those coins I mixed to Binance, FTX and Coinbase hot wallets?

[Despairo]

Nothing can stop Tornado Cash because the user can still interact with the smart contracts directly. I have not read all of the news, however, there are some people in social media who said that this is the first time a smart contract has been sanctioned.

I'd say since Tonardo Cash is serving an ERC20 tokens which is centralized, I don't believe they can mix those tokens and didn't link with the previous transactions because the validator will know where the token are send to.

Also, this sanction will be a problem because it can be used against anyone. What if I use Tornado Cash then send those coins I mixed to Binance, FTX and Coinbase hot wallets?

Your account will get flagged by centralized exchanges since they're cooperate with money laundering company, they will look with your previous transaction and will know the token came from. If you using a bad privacy mixer, they will know the address is came from a mixer and even you're using a good mixer, they will know you're concealing your transaction.

However since Chipmixer is also a centralized mixer, I'm worried since it's possible if Chipmixer get shutdown, or it's possible Chipmixer will only available on Tor network? Obviously google will follow any rules from government.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

However since Chipmixer is also a centralized mixer, I'm worried since it's possible if Chipmixer get shutdown,

It can if they wanted to.

or it's possible Chipmixer will only available on Tor network?

It has been only available on Tor network since this day

Obviously google will follow any rules from government.

What would google do? Shutdown chipmixer?
I hope you are joking 

[hugeblack]

I have not heard of this service before, Is she central like Chipmixer? Or does it need collective cooperation (protocol management) like Wasabi/coinJoin?

In general, privacy is something that needs value, and I do not think that it is easy or cheap to hide identity from governments or countries that allocate resources to track you. Therefore, hiding identity in crptocurrencies will be more difficult in the future unless current technologies develop.

The biggest danger is the use of centralized cryptocurrencies, which give the developer the possibility to freeze access to your funds.

[bitmover]

I have not heard of this service before, Is she central like Chipmixer? Or does it need collective cooperation (protocol management) like Wasabi/coinJoin?

It is a smartcontract that runs on Eth blockchain. It is the best and most used and best mixed in Eth blockchain.
Fully decentralized, as it is just a smartcontract. Theoretically, it cannot be stopped (just the front end app, their website. But it still runs in the blockchain.)

[PX-Z]

Obviously google will follow any rules from government.

Google can only remove the website appearing on google results, but you can't deny that lots of website reviews made a chipmixer reviews already which will show on google including their ANN thread.

[dkbit98]

What is interesting about this is that the service is actually a piece of code, which can be run locally or in another server.

I guess Vitalik Butern should go to jail because he publicly used TornadoCash many times  
I wouldn't say that TornadoCash was ever really decentralized service, same way like Uniswap and other junk dex exchanges are not really dex, and until recently TornadoCash was closed source.
Imagine how ''decentralized'' ethereum is, when you can freeze all tokens by centralized authority, like in case with USDC stableshitcoin.
One more bad thing about TornadoCash is that it was unusable when transaction fees was higher in ethereum.

But since it's dependent to github repo, which can be sanctioned too like they did to Iran and other countries suspending github accounts or blocked the access of github with US request which they will do it lately, after realizing it's useless suspending only the website and not its whole process.

Github is actually owned by microsoft pricks, but there are better alternatives like Gitlab that are harder to shut down, and code can be forked anywhere or self hosted.
Real danger with this is that someone could start malicious version of TornadoCash fork to scam and steal money from people.

[stompix]

What would google do? Shutdown chipmixer?
I hope you are joking 

You don't need government action and you don't even need an actual move from google for making things worse, just a bot automatically accepting a scammer DMCA attempt, and there you have it. As for actually shutting down, chipmixer isn't at this point accessible over tor, of course, tor was under attack too but the timing of those events is a bit unsettling.

Google can only remove the website appearing on google results, but you can't deny that lots of website reviews made a chipmixer reviews already which will show on google including their ANN thread.

Don't trust a single review website other than the bitcointalk link, most are set up by scammers and are actually linking to fake addresses, we've had enough examples to date of such things.

[PX-Z]

Don't trust a single review website other than the bitcointalk link, most are set up by scammers and are actually linking to fake addresses, we've had enough examples to date of such things.

Of course, i know that. But the thing is newbies doesn't know about that that's why they end up using google. Unfortunately, bitcointalk topics/links doesnt show in the google first all the times. Even the website on google's first result using the "chipmixer review" keyword has fake chipmixer link.

[Pmalek]

Also, this sanction will be a problem because it can be used against anyone. What if I use Tornado Cash then send those coins I mixed to Binance, FTX and Coinbase hot wallets?

Many popular centralized crypto exchanges already have certain taint algorithms in place even without this newest attack on privacy. Depending on how they look at things, funds that originate from mixers, coinjoins, and gambling platforms are/could be considered as dirty and unwanted.

Check out [Blacklist] of unreliable, 'taint proclaiming' Bitcoin services / exchanges or What Do Centralized Exchanges Consider as Taint for more information.

One way around that is using decentralized alternatives such as Bisq where bitcoin retains its fungibility.   

[Despairo]

or it's possible Chipmixer will only available on Tor network?

It has been only available on Tor network since this day

Obviously google will follow any rules from government.

What would google do? Shutdown chipmixer?
I hope you are joking 

What I mean is, if the site was shutdown and we can't access it via google, does using Tor is still possible? But after think it few times, I think I take it wrong. Any browsers are same, if the site isn't active anymore, using any browsers will have same result since the server can't be connected, correct?

Well, that's make me worried if they're start looking for Bitcoin mixer especially Chipmixer is the biggest Bitcoin mixer. Does it possible for Chipmixer to immune about this problem?

[Pmalek]

What I mean is, if the site was shutdown and we can't access it via google, does using Tor is still possible?

If a site is down, you can't access it no matter what browser you use. It's not a browser thing. Google can blacklist ChipMixer or any other service from showing up in their search results. You can test that yourself. Type and search for "ChipMixer" and see what results you are shown. The sites recommended to you are fake phishing sites, but Google doesn't care. But despite it not showing up in search results, you can still open https://chipmixer.com/ with Google Chrome just fine.

Any browsers are same, if the site isn't active anymore, using any browsers will have same result since the server can't be connected, correct?

Yes, it will be down across all browsers. All you might be able to access is a cached offline version of the site (maybe).

Well, that's make me worried if they're start looking for Bitcoin mixer especially Chipmixer is the biggest Bitcoin mixer. Does it possible for Chipmixer to immune about this problem?

Hard to say. Other mixers have been taken down in the past. When those in power start considering something a threat, there is no telling what its future will be like.

[bbc.reporter]

Nothing can stop Tornado Cash because the user can still interact with the smart contracts directly. I have not read all of the news, however, there are some people in social media who said that this is the first time a smart contract has been sanctioned.

I'd say since Tonardo Cash is serving an ERC20 tokens which is centralized, I don't believe they can mix those tokens and didn't link with the previous transactions because the validator will know where the token are send to.

Also, this sanction will be a problem because it can be used against anyone. What if I use Tornado Cash then send those coins I mixed to Binance, FTX and Coinbase hot wallets?

Your account will get flagged by centralized exchanges since they're cooperate with money laundering company, they will look with your previous transaction and will know the token came from. If you using a bad privacy mixer, they will know the address is came from a mixer and even you're using a good mixer, they will know you're concealing your transaction.

However since Chipmixer is also a centralized mixer, I'm worried since it's possible if Chipmixer get shutdown, or it's possible Chipmixer will only available on Tor network? Obviously google will follow any rules from government.

I am not quite certain how Tornado Cash works as a mixer and I will not assume that Ethereum validators can trace where the mixed coins have been sent. Show your analysis with data to prove your claim.

I am also not talking about sending mixed coins to my own account in an exchange. I said send them to exchanges' hot wallets or Vitalik's wallet or also someone can send them to your wallet. What can the government do? They cannot enforce this ban.

[malcovi2]

I am not quite certain how Tornado Cash works as a mixer and I will not assume that Ethereum validators can trace where the mixed coins have been sent. Show your analysis with data to prove your claim.

I am also not talking about sending mixed coins to my own account in an exchange. I said send them to exchanges' hot wallets or Vitalik's wallet or also someone can send them to your wallet. What can the government do? They cannot enforce this ban.

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2019/12/26/binance-blockade-of-wasabi-wallet-could-point-to-a-crypto-crack-up/
https://slowmist.medium.com/slowmist-aml-tracking-funds-laundered-by-tornado-cash-3a0e1f637054

its not completely anonymous, it will just help the transaction hard to trace.
Probably US and EU are monitoring tornado cash very hard now since it is being used by N.Korean hackers.

[Darker45]

It is both amusing and bothering how things escalated rather quickly on this issue. There was a significant domino effect after the treasury department imposed the blacklist on Tornado Cash. It is rather worrying how the rest easily and quickly bowed down after the decision was meted. Circle immediately took voluntary steps in compliance with the decision. Github followed suit. There might be more to follow. It seems statements of resistance are only coming from individuals when this is obviously a blanket attack on the right to privacy and to be anonymous.

[TryNinja]

I am not quite certain how Tornado Cash works as a mixer and I will not assume that Ethereum validators can trace where the mixed coins have been sent. Show your analysis with data to prove your claim.

They can't. Dude is clueless saying that "ERC20 tokens are centralized".

When you deposit into Tornado.cash, it generates you a private note (like a private key enabling these funds to be withdrawn later). You just use the private note to withdraw with a different address. No one can see which address was responsible for depositing the amount you took out later.