Tornado.Cash Sanctioned by the US

[Abiky]

According to CNBC, the US' Treasury Department sanctioned on-chain mixing service Tornado.cash because of "money laundering" activities. Here's the link to the article: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/08/crypto-mixing-service-tornado-cash-blacklisted-by-treasury-department-.html

I fail to see how successful the US government would be at sanctioning a decentralized mixing protocol, since there's no single entity behind it. You can't hold someone accountable for patronizing money laundering activities if everything's decentralized by design. Even if the website goes down, users can still access the smart contract directly without limitations.

Am I missing something here? Does this mean all mixing protocols/services are doomed? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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[poodle63]

Did you remember axie's hacked case? The hacker was using this tool to laundering all of money stolen from axie infinity treasury. I remember in some news tornado cash able to blacklisted such address from using its protocol that means if there was an entity behind it. The dev was still behind that tool. I do aware if so many hackers were using this tool. I do agree with decision that already taken by US. That needs to be sanctioned.

[ryzaadit]

Am I missing something here? Does this mean all mixing protocols/services are doomed? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

First of all.

Did you ever read about a mixing service getting shut down by US Government? There has some several news the mixing service got shutdown. Even my self is the one signature participating from the mixing service who are getting shutdown.

That's why most the owner of Mixing Service is staying Anonymous. There has some scenario, while the government opening a mixing service by them self to track money laundry of their target.

[Abiky]

Did you remember axie's hacked case? The hacker was using this tool to laundering all of money stolen from axie infinity treasury. I remember in some news tornado cash able to blacklisted such address from using its protocol that means if there was an entity behind it. The dev was still behind that tool. I do aware if so many hackers were using this tool. I do agree with decision that already taken by US. That needs to be sanctioned.

So much for a "decentralized" mixing protocol. Being able to blacklist certain users, makes Tornado.Cash no different than a centralized mixing service. The developer should've chosen to stay anonymous in the first place so none of this would've happened. It's a pity since most crypto projects have publicly-known developers and/or founders. As long as governments are able to identify the persons behind the project, decentralization/censorship-resistance will never be achieved.

Now the "decentralized" mixing protocol's website has been shutdown, along with the project's GitHub repository. The source code is nowhere to be found, so unless someone has a backup, Tornado.Cash's original vision to bring privacy to the ETH chain would be doomed. The ability to take down the source code easily, makes me wonder if someday governments will do the same with Bitcoin if they find it too threatening to Fiat's existence. I believe the war is just beginning, so hold on tight as this is going to be a wild ride. Just my opinion

[cryptoaddictchie]

US dont want to associate their people or traders affiliated to thise mixers like tornado cash but for me, they cant stopped them, they will just use it again probably use different account or use another network or vpn to keep using tornado cash.

Actually mixers are being used illegaly thats why they are being like that. Well who dont gonna get alarm right? Lets agree to disagree, some uses it for privacy but with its particular usage, scammers gonna love that.

[lumbanrang]

That's why most the owner of Mixing Service is staying Anonymous. There has some scenario, while the government opening a mixing service by them self to track money laundry of their target.

I strongly agree that the developer of the mixing service should remain anonymous to avoid government intervention. Regardless of the user's purpose of using the mixing service whether it's money laundering, etc., I don't agree with government intervention on crypto services globally.

[vv181]

Did you remember axie's hacked case? The hacker was using this tool to laundering all of money stolen from axie infinity treasury. I remember in some news tornado cash able to blacklisted such address from using its protocol that means if there was an entity behind it. The dev was still behind that tool. I do aware if so many hackers were using this tool. I do agree with decision that already taken by US. That needs to be sanctioned.

So much for a "decentralized" mixing protocol. Being able to blacklist certain users, makes Tornado.Cash no different than a centralized mixing service. The developer should've chosen to stay anonymous in the first place so none of this would've happened.

Umm, that doesn't sound right. Tornado Cash did not blacklist any particular address within its protocol. @poodle63, Do you have any news about it? As far as I know, the only thing that could get blacklisted is a particular address that is owned by some entity, like for example USDC.

The ability to take down the source code easily, makes me wonder if someday governments will do the same with Bitcoin if they find it too threatening to Fiat's existence. I believe the war is just beginning, so hold on tight as this is going to be a wild ride. Just my opinion

One of the many things that empower Bitcoin is its being run by a lot of nodes, which increases the decentralization. So, any centralized entity will get a hard time covering it up. It explains why running your own Bitcoin node is beneficial, the problem is likely if a centralized git repository like Github takes a part of it, like in this came. But I believe, that is a small thing that can be prevented within Bitcoin ecosystem.

[zasad@]

Good story about events with tornado cache in this thread
https://twitter.com/BowTiedIguana/status/1556683120002314241

American law reacts very quickly to such events and violators face large prison sentences and fines.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-31/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-501?toc=1

https://twitter.com/0xJim/status/1557035689425895425
"Max chaos — someone is sending TC’d ETH to big doxxed wallets like Shaq, Beeple, Randi Zuckerberg, Ben Horowitz, Brian Armstrong, etc"

[blockman]

I strongly agree that the developer of the mixing service should remain anonymous to avoid government intervention. Regardless of the user's purpose of using the mixing service whether it's money laundering, etc., I don't agree with government intervention on crypto services globally.

I guess for those domains that are related to crypto, they can do this depending on where they'll buy that domain. Tornado cash is now closed and dismissed by the US government and we'll still see a series of these closures when big funds will always go through these websites and they'll be tracked down for sure until they're closed. And another sanction is that, they'll never be able to operate again unless they come out with another name or if they're allowed to do that.

[zasad@]

https://www.theblock.co/post/162928/dydx-confirms-blocking-user-accounts-tied-to-tornado-cash?
dYdX confirms blocking user accounts tied to Tornado Cash
"dYdX said it banned user accounts with a history of using Tornado Cash.
The exchange also clarified that it inaccurately blocked several accounts, which it later unblocked."

[zasad@]

https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/
"On Wednesday 10 August, the FIOD arrested a 29-year-old man in Amsterdam. He is suspected of involvement in concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering through the mixing of cryptocurrencies through the decentralised Ethereum mixing service Tornado Cash. Multiple arrests are not ruled out. These advanced technologies, such as decentralised organisations that may facilitate money laundering are receiving extra attention from the FIOD. Also in the cryptocurrency domain, the FIOD stands for a safe financial Netherlands and investigates with effect and impact. Today the suspect is brought before the examining judge."

[5W-KILO]

While Tornado Cash looks like a devil in disguise since this news came up days ago this project start trending on coinmarketcap lately, I expected a almighty crash after the news but it doesn't look affected, my question is Monero can be compared to Tornado Cash so why isn't Monero nailed as well.

[jrrsparkles]

Even some of the centralized coin mixers of bitcoin were forced to shut down by the governments because they found the platform used for money laundering but we can't really do anything about it since government has the power to do whatever the things they wanted to do then they will execute it. When the platform is decentralized and no central authority behind the entity then its not possible to stop them.

[zasad@]

Justin Sun got banned
https://twitter.com/justinsuntron/status/1558397647165091840

"I’m officially blocked by @AaveAave  since someone sent 0.1 eth randomly from @TornadoCash  to me.
@StaniKulechov
"
https://twitter.com/sassal0x/status/1558326040920936448
"sassal.eth now blocked from using the official Aave front-end because someone sent 0.1 ETH to my address via Tornado Cash "

This is the world of decentralized finance. lol

[X-ray]

Justin Sun got banned
https://twitter.com/justinsuntron/status/1558397647165091840

"I’m officially blocked by @AaveAave  since someone sent 0.1 eth randomly from @TornadoCash  to me.
@StaniKulechov
"
https://twitter.com/sassal0x/status/1558326040920936448
"sassal.eth now blocked from using the official Aave front-end because someone sent 0.1 ETH to my address via Tornado Cash "

This is the world of decentralized finance. lol

DEFI was just a gimmick, the fact that if mostly of defi were actually centralized. The latest news https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/08/12/an-alleged-tornado-cash-developer-was-arrested-are-you-next/

I have been predicting it to happen. It seems like more the developers of tornado being searched by the police. Tornado is still being developed by the developers. These developers become target by regulators and police. They were contributing to the tornado's existence will be jailed.

[Abiky]

US dont want to associate their people or traders affiliated to thise mixers like tornado cash but for me, they cant stopped them, they will just use it again probably use different account or use another network or vpn to keep using tornado cash.

Actually mixers are being used illegaly thats why they are being like that. Well who dont gonna get alarm right? Lets agree to disagree, some uses it for privacy but with its particular usage, scammers gonna love that.

The protocol itself is open source and decentralized, so anyone can easily "revive" the mixer if there's enough interest into it. However, for some people, it may not be worth the risk as they could easily face prosecution from the US government (either through the US directly or through an allied country). While I don't support money laundering, the fact that the source code was removed from GitHub should be a reason of concern for both privacy and decentralization advocates. The government could easily shut down other mixers or "De-Fi" platforms if they're hosted on centralized servers. To achieve true decentralization and censorship-resistance, decentralized applications' web interface (mixers, lending protocols, etc) should be hosted on P2P networks (eg: IPFS) and use a decentralized domain name (preferably on-chain like ENS or Unstoppable.Domains). Even the source code should be hosted on a decentralized alternative to GitHub such as Radicle. But developers don't care about true decentralization these days, because they're only thinking about the money. Not only that, but making something completely decentralized would not be as easy to use for the average person.

Recently, the US' Secretary of State hinted the possibility of taking down other crypto mixers as well (read his tweet here). If decentralized isn't prioritized, then I'm afraid I'll be the end of ChipMixer, CashShuffle (BCH), CashFusion (BCH), and even privacy coins like DASH and Monero. We're going to have to see how this will end as crypto/Blockchain tech becomes more popular by the day. Just my opinion

[cryptoaddictchie]

If decentralized isn't prioritized, then I'm afraid I'll be the end of ChipMixer, CashShuffle (BCH), CashFusion (BCH), and even privacy coins like DASH and Monero. We're going to have to see how this will end as crypto/Blockchain tech becomes more popular by the day. Just my opinion

Decentralized would never be prioritized by the Government and totally opposite of its definition.  Crypto mixer goals arent that bad but we cant deny the fact that there will be malice and negative feedback on this as it can be used by scammers.  Privacy is important and government honor that.  However,  scammers are blending in on this particular utility to mask and camouflage their crimes.  So in short,  there will be a massive debate for this matter if this gonna work in long term or should be stopped already.

[Outhue]

It's been a long time that I have been saying that Monero and other privacy coins builders, team or CEO needs to be hidden, imagine no one knows who Tornado Cash CEO is, the teams should vanish like Nakamoto.

[tvplus006]

I strongly agree that the developer of the mixing service should remain anonymous to avoid government intervention. Regardless of the user's purpose of using the mixing service whether it's money laundering, etc., I don't agree with government intervention on crypto services globally.

Ideally, all developers and the team of decentralized applications should be anonymous, otherwise all decentralization will eventually turn into centralized. As for mixing, as long as there is a need for anonymity, such services will continue to work, but at the same time they will become inaccessible to control.

[JeromeTash]

I fail to see how successful the US government would be at sanctioning a decentralized mixing protocol, since there's no single entity behind it.

They arrested one of the developers, forced the likes of github, Discord, to delete all the activity, and this has seen reduced activity in the platform too. So their sanctioning seems to have been successful so far

You can't hold someone accountable for patronizing money laundering activities if everything's decentralized by design. Even if the website goes down, users can still access the smart contract directly without limitations.

How many users will be able to access the service directly though the smart contract when the website is offline?

Does this mean all mixing protocols/services are doomed?

Mixing services have always been doomed.