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Author Topic: Bitcoin without internet: SMS service allows sending BTC with a text  (Read 377 times)
zasad@ (OP)
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August 12, 2022, 02:56:04 PM
Merited by dkbit98 (1), hd49728 (1)
 #1

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-without-internet-sms-service-allows-sending-btc-with-a-text

https://twitter.com/rakgatjane/status/1558059603258220548?cxt=HHwWiIC98Yi9q58rAAAA

"As a result, Lightning wallet-compatible apps on phones or computers can send Bitcoin over the Lightning Network to the phone’s number—it has effectively become a Lightning address. Machankura has integrated with Bitrefill, an increasingly popular prepaid gift card service for Bitcoin in Africa. Plus, as of Wednesday, South Africans will be able to top up their Lighting Wallets with credit from grocery stores in a partnership with “One for you,” a voucher provider. "


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August 12, 2022, 03:15:43 PM
 #2

Now that is cool. I really like to see innovations like this. It seems more and more bitrefill is partnering with people who want to spread the use of BTC
Since it's LN the fees are negligible and it makes it easy to get people to use BTC without worrying about fees and other things.

Will be keeping an eye on it.

OT Side thought: Bitcointalk really needs a remind me bot because I can see us discussing this for a bit and then forgetting about it but I would like to see how it's going in a few months.

-Dave


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August 12, 2022, 04:08:00 PM
 #3

I think the idea of making Bitcoin more accessible in Africa is a great one, and if people there text but don't use the Internet often, then the SMS version makes sense. I remember a time around 15 years ago when in my country people tended to talk via SMS texts on button-based mobile phones, for instance. Judging from the screenshot in the article, though, I think it's about smartphones.
The service is custodial, so that's a big downside. My other concern would be about safety, as I believe SMS aren't that secure...

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August 12, 2022, 04:14:03 PM
 #4

What is cryptography behind this to help?

And what will happen if the SMS receiver don't claim their sats within 7 days?

I think the idea for this innovation is very great but not sure is it safe. It is like using a third party service like you don't trade directly with your trade partner but you do this via a middle man.

And SMS is a bit unsafe. Bringing Bitcoin to more people should not contain more risk for them.

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August 12, 2022, 04:39:07 PM
 #5

It's actually a great innovation mostly to Africans as some areas are still lacking in the issue of Internet. But the case of sms having to involve the network providers as Third party isn't that a security problem. And what happens when the receive has a slight network issue and the sms is arrives late? Does this innovation has a solution in check for that

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August 12, 2022, 04:57:05 PM
 #6

And what will happen if the SMS receiver don't claim their sats within 7 days?


According to the news, this services integrated with Bitrefill in order to redeem the voucher code. We know, every time there is a time limit on a promotion or gift, what happens if it is not redeemed? yep, it means that voucher is forfeited. Most likely, the BTC that reported send to someone, but not being redeemed, it will return to the gift giver's wallet. of course maybe will deducted for fees.
Here some informations of this services:
Code:
Website: https://8333.mobi/
Github: https://github.com/machankura
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Machankura8333
maybe you wanna try, just used the site, or asked to them from twitter if you have other questions

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August 12, 2022, 05:00:10 PM
Merited by Zlantann (2)
 #7

I will still stick to Bitcoin transactions using the normal internet service to process everything including the gas fee. The use of sms to process transaction can be time consuming especially when service provider is having some difficulties in balancing stable network. I have seen most time sending an sms to friends delays or could not go through because of this same network issues. Receiving SMS can be troublesome most times so I don't rely on it.

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August 12, 2022, 05:11:24 PM
 #8

OT Side thought: Bitcointalk really needs a remind me bot because I can see us discussing this for a bit and then forgetting about it but I would like to see how it's going in a few months.

-Dave

innovation
there are many diary/calender apps that you can use to set an event where the note is a URL..

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August 12, 2022, 05:26:59 PM
 #9

Now that is cool. I really like to see innovations like this. It seems more and more bitrefill is partnering with people who want to spread the use of BTC
Since it's LN the fees are negligible and it makes it easy to get people to use BTC without worrying about fees and other things.

Totally caught me off guard as well. Seeing the article headline, I automatically assumed it was solely a centralized database interaction à la like Coinbase<->Coinbase transactions. Well, surprisingly it actually uses LN.

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August 12, 2022, 05:40:34 PM
Last edit: August 12, 2022, 06:31:25 PM by franky1
 #10

Now that is cool. I really like to see innovations like this. It seems more and more bitrefill is partnering with people who want to spread the use of BTC
Since it's LN the fees are negligible and it makes it easy to get people to use BTC without worrying about fees and other things.

Totally caught me off guard as well. Seeing the article headline, I automatically assumed it was solely a centralized database interaction à la like Coinbase<->Coinbase transactions. Well, surprisingly it actually uses LN.

its a hybrid of both.

people WITH smartphones that are internet enabled can go to a retail store, buy a certain giftcard and redeem that for LN msats via bitrefills. and then send them msats to the service.
where the service then uses its central database to credit peoples SMS number in its mysql database with a allotment of sats(custodian) on its centralised database

those using 2g only (GSM) can then send a message to the central service to request transfers of central database balance/custodian to other peoples SMS number

this system is not about setting up a LN channel for every single SMS user. as there is just is not enough liquidity or (i wont mention al other issues) to perform that.

the important thing is the OR in their description of the service. it reveals alot that its not 100% LN nor 100% bitcoin network

Quote
Every registered user can send and receive Bitcoin to their phone number from other Machankura users or to their machankura lightning address.

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August 12, 2022, 05:52:59 PM
 #11

I will still stick to Bitcoin transactions using the normal internet service to process everything including the gas fee.
Don't be too rigid, this innovation may still turn out to be something very useful. What we need to look out for at the moment is the sustainability of this new development, how long will this SMS service permit this sending of btc via text? I'm certain there will be a lot of observers unto that regards, and truly if it proves sustainable, this is another welcome development that will spread quickly to other countries.

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August 12, 2022, 06:16:02 PM
 #12

It's interesting idea of SMS for sending Bitcoin BUT it can also connect your identity with your Bitcoin addresses, so I would only use this with anon prepaid numbers.
If I understand correctly this is Lightning Network, so it's not directly connected with BTC address, but problem could be that most people probably run custodial LN wallets on their phones.
I hope nobody will arrest him for making this publicly :/

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August 12, 2022, 07:05:53 PM
 #13

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-without-internet-sms-service-allows-sending-btc-with-a-text

https://twitter.com/rakgatjane/status/1558059603258220548?cxt=HHwWiIC98Yi9q58rAAAA

"As a result, Lightning wallet-compatible apps on phones or computers can send Bitcoin over the Lightning Network to the phone’s number—it has effectively become a Lightning address. Machankura has integrated with Bitrefill, an increasingly popular prepaid gift card service for Bitcoin in Africa. Plus, as of Wednesday, South Africans will be able to top up their Lighting Wallets with credit from grocery stores in a partnership with “One for you,” a voucher provider. "


It is good news and in the past also we had service providers of sending BTC via SMS or without internet but it hasn't been that much successful even though bitcoin community is growing everyday. I wonder even in 2022 still we are lack of internet coverage atleast 2G?

If I am not wrong people who have smartphones and experiencing internet is higher than people who are using toilets so we almost have internet everywhere.

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August 12, 2022, 08:24:55 PM
 #14

What is cryptography behind this to help?

And what will happen if the SMS receiver don't claim their sats within 7 days?
The expiration date for bitcoin is something new. Smiley I suspect that after this period the gift can't be used, that's all, and the money will be returned to the sender, or rather, the recipient will not receive it.

What is cryptography behind this to help?
I think the idea for this innovation is very great but not sure is it safe. It is like using a third party service like you don't trade directly with your trade partner but you do this via a middle man.

And SMS is a bit unsafe. Bringing Bitcoin to more people should not contain more risk for them.
The more ways to send and receive BTC, the better it will be for the bitcoin network, because it makes the network more viable and ready for any trouble.

Don't worry about the fact that the execution of this idea is not perfect. Look at it as a prototype that will be improved or new alternatives will be invented. We don't know what kind of technology will be able to gain a foothold in the crypto community. The main thing here is to try and look for solutions in the process of which we can get something new and better.

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August 12, 2022, 08:38:46 PM
 #15

Quote
Bitcoin without internet: SMS service allows sending BTC with a text

This could also work for Bitcoin network :

A service providing by sms request the necessary outputs for signing the transaction, then you sign the transaction in an application and send the transaction hash for pushing it!

This can be done by commands like for example:

Code:
/send: (address-X) (address-Y) (amount)

then

/push-tx: (hash)

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August 13, 2022, 04:47:17 AM
 #16

Well I try to ask them via twitter with same questions as @hd49728 posts

here their answer:

Hello thanks for the questions.

This is a custodial Bitcoin lightning wallet. So we hold and transact sats on behalf of users.

Depending on how they were sent the sats are allocated back to the user (if they were sent via lightning then no way to allocate them back so best the sats are gifted using the service).

It is a third party service. Users that can use non-custodial solutions like bluewallet and phoenix wallet are more welcome to do so (we highly recommend they do so).

Bringing Bitcoin to more people should not contain more risk as compared to what? We invite anyone with the capital to push Bitcoin adoption without the risks associated with the African infrastructure to do so and they will have our full public support as they are doing it.

On a seperate note, we see this as a stepping stone to Bitcoin adoption (a hot wallet if you wish). But at the end of the GSM medium will be the medium we will be exploring to bring Bitcoin adoption moving forward. We also will have an open source project where we explore using the sim card as a hardware wallet (because of javacard functionalities). And create a GSM interface for the "electrum" like features.

Screenshot from original messages


hopefully this answer give an informations about our concern.

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August 13, 2022, 11:47:54 AM
 #17

Although this innovation has some defects but it is a welcomed development. Giving people that lacks internet service the opportunity to access Bitcoin transaction is a good starting point. I am sure other innovations would come in future that would offer better and safer service to customers. Africa has one of the biggest market for Bitcoin because of it's high population of unbanked individuals. I am really thrilled because regardless of the challenges, the gospel of Bitcoin is spreading in Africa.

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August 13, 2022, 01:50:32 PM
 #18

Quote
Plus, the service is custodial, a point that works against the Bitcoin ethos of “not your keys, not your coins.” So, he is looking for a way to use SIM cards as private keys.

Using Sim cards as private keys is a red flag, though the technology will help disseminate the use of Bitcoin in Africa as the use of USSD is rampant than the mobile app usage or even internet banking in Africa. On the other hand if a phone is stolen the Sim card which is the private key can be compromised and the person's fund will be missing forever. I think with time everything will be put in place, it's a new innovation.

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August 13, 2022, 02:50:11 PM
 #19

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-without-internet-sms-service-allows-sending-btc-with-a-text

https://twitter.com/rakgatjane/status/1558059603258220548?cxt=HHwWiIC98Yi9q58rAAAA
"As a result, Lightning wallet-compatible apps on phones or computers can send Bitcoin over the Lightning Network to the phone’s number—it has effectively become a Lightning address. Machankura has integrated with Bitrefill, an increasingly popular prepaid gift card service for Bitcoin in Africa. Plus, as of Wednesday, South Africans will be able to top up their Lighting Wallets with credit from grocery stores in a partnership with “One for you,” a voucher provider. "

- If I look at it, it's too cool for me, If its development is good in their country, it can also be implemented for sure in every country that also
  has a lot of crypto enthusiasts. Because today you can only make bitcoin transactions via the internet or our mobile device must have a data
  connection. This is when the implementation happens in our countries, we can no longer load our phone devices just to have a data
  connection.

Although this innovation has some defects but it is a welcomed development. Giving people that lacks internet service the opportunity to access Bitcoin transaction is a good starting point. I am sure other innovations would come in future that would offer better and safer service to customers. Africa has one of the biggest market for Bitcoin because of it's high population of unbanked individuals. I am really thrilled because regardless of the challenges, the gospel of Bitcoin is spreading in Africa.

- Africa was one of the biggest country in the whole world and one of the poor country as well according to my knowledge.
  But even if their country's situation is like that, there is a strong community of bitcoin industry among them that they can also be a way to
  help lift their economy and reduce poverty in the future. So it's really good to start this innovation in their community there.


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Bobrox
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August 13, 2022, 07:48:21 PM
 #20

I think the idea of making Bitcoin more accessible in Africa is a great one, and if people there text but don't use the Internet often, then the SMS version makes sense. I remember a time around 15 years ago when in my country people tended to talk via SMS texts on button-based mobile phones, for instance. Judging from the screenshot in the article, though, I think it's about smartphones.
The service is custodial, so that's a big downside. My other concern would be about safety, as I believe SMS aren't that secure...
Not all countries and region get good internet speed service and sending bitcoin by SMS mobile phone not safety in my country, easy duplicate the same mobile phone number and I worried with the safety assets if really ability sending and controlling with mobile phone. Although with easy way when sending without have access with internet but negative side with some country less controlling safety with number phone duplicate. Happened last years when some one in my country travelling to other country and his real local number duplicate by the other until he loss much money on his bank after hacker success log in in his bank account and get SMS verification by duplicate mobile phone number.

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