Mixers that mix bitcoin without letting it be obvious that it came from a mixer?

[o_e_l_e_o]

HE WAS NOT ARRESTED FOR "JUST" WRITING CODE
HE WAS ARRESTED FOR... "involvement in concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering"

And you are just going to repeat the government line without any independent thought? I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less.

Please show me the "criminal financial flows" he personally concealed. Please show the money he personally laundered. Links to specific transactions please. You can't, because there are none. Tornado Cash is a smart contract. He might have helped write the smart contract, but he did not run it, he did not handle any transactions, he did not take custody of any funds, and he is not responsible for how other people used it. He wrote code. That's it. If they can arrest him because his code was used for illegal purposes, then they can arrest pretty much any developer for the same reason.

This is exactly what everyone except you was warning about last year, and which you ranted repeatedly that everyone except you was wrong.

your quotes were snipped where you had not understood the full context.
take the one where you thought it meant that vasps sending or receiving where kyc was weak or non existing should be suspect.. (how you perceived it)

Maybe you should write to the FATF and tell them that when they define P2P transactions as transactions which are "conducted without the use or involvement of a VASP", and that these transactions pose "specific risks" and "should be monitored", that they don't mean that at all and that you have figured out what they really mean after all.

ha ha ha.. you are so delusional that you got your wires mixed up and forgot who said what about which
it was YOU that has been saying that due to the snippet you think meant something else that all transactions are sent as a SAR..
YOU kept saying the authorities are getting huge amount of SAR

I've literally never mentioned SARs once, but nice strawman.

learn and then you may realise what is a risk and not a risk for you to learn how to work around them

So enlighten us then. In your fantasy world, what is your non-private privacy tool which definitely isn't related to privacy while letting you keep your privacy, that the average user will be able to easily use to improve their privacy while simultaneously completely fooling blockchain analysis and the FATF in to thinking it is not improving privacy?

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[AGD]

It´s pretty funny to see how Franky aggressivly takes over certain threads. They always turn into ad hominem discussions, while the original topic gets ripped into pieces. He will never ever admit being wrong, so you guys should simply put him on ignore. That will save you a lot of precious time.

[franky1]

HE WAS NOT ARRESTED FOR "JUST" WRITING CODE
HE WAS ARRESTED FOR... "involvement in concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering"

And you are just going to repeat the government line without any independent thought? I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less.

when the government arrest someone.. and they tell the world why he was arrested..,
("involvement in concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering")
..
then mr dimwhit pretends there was no reason given, and to ignore the governments response. to then repeat "they didnt give a reason" (facepalm)
to then go around saying "he was arrested for [insert any reason mr dim whit fits his narrative"

just shows how you want to ignore actual source info. .. and instead make up anything that fits your narrative..

here is the thing.. if you want to play the ignorance game of ignoring why he was actually arrested for, to suggest there was no reason given.. then guess what.. that also means in your ignorant game.. that he was not arrested for being a dev. because as you say no reason was given..
for all you lack of knowing. he could have been arrested for something unrelated to bitcoin or mixing.. if you want to play your ignorant game.

he could have stolen a mars bar from a 7-11, or murdered someone, or was found drunk driving after a 100mph chase.. so in your ignorant game of pretending to not know/more precisely not doing any research he could have been arrested for any reason.. not the reason you want to then imply..

now lets step out of your silly ignorant game. and take a look at reality
the police DID SAY he was arrested for "involvement in concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering"

other statements
"Investigations showed that at least one billion dollars' worth of cryptocurrencies of criminal origin passed through the mixer. It is suspected that persons behind this organisation have made large-scale profits from these transactions."

he didnt just make software and then release it.
he then helped USE the software afterwards.. and also facilitate/organise the trades where he received payment for being involved in the trades
...

also he was literally sanctioned.
common sense/logic/research. is showing that part of the closed door court is not just about his criminal profiteering. but also about keeping him detained for longer whilst america decide if they want him extradited from europe to the US to then deal with the US sanctions issue he has been named under
..

it has nothing to do with "just being a developer" Eg just knowing C++
so please stop with your petty little agenda games to scare bitcoin developers into stopping because you want to think that just being a developer is a european crime(you idiot)

if you stop using the whispers of social buddy group conspiracy as your source. and actually do research you wil find out the truth

he was arrested, they exchanged his arrest.
he was charged, and he went to a hearing..
the hearing was a closed door hearing. and thats where the rumour mill started. and went backwards from
in the whisper mill order of social drama queens that dont do research

"we didnt get to know what happened in the hearing"
to
"we dont know how he plead or how many other charges are involved"
to
"we didnt get to know if there were any other charges"
to
"we dont know the charges"
to
"he was not charged"
..


i know you might read titles like "suspected developer of tornado arrested" and start whispering that the title must mean the charge..

no

otherwise "suspected financial investor Jeffery epstein arrested" must mean that epsteins only crime was being an investor in your mind

so clear your mind of what your buddys have taught you. and do try some real research

[PowerGlove]

Sorry if I'm repeating what someone else has already said, but I find threads like these where franky has an entrenched position to be too exhausting to read properly.

it has nothing to do with "just being a developer" Eg just knowing C++
so please stop with your petty little agenda games to scare bitcoin developers into stopping because you want to think that just being a developer is a european crime(you idiot)

You can't honestly believe that anybody you're arguing with is making the claim that someone was arrested for simply being a developer, can you?

when the government arrest someone.. and they tell the world why he was arrested..,
("involvement in concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering")

There are two points worth stressing, I think:

Firstly, it's more than a little naive to simply accept their stated reason for arrest as being the whole truth.

Secondly, you're kidding yourself if you think that "facilitating money laundering" won't eventually be used to justify the arrest of someone for simply writing code, the writing is on the wall.

[LoyceV]

Sorry if I'm repeating what someone else has already said, but I find threads like these where franky has an entrenched position to be too exhausting to read properly.

Me too. I put the guy back on ignore, but he's posted here 39 times and people keep entertaining him (I'm guilty of that a few times too) while he just repeats the same thing over and over again.

the original topic gets ripped into pieces.

This. And since off-topic doesn't seem to get deleted, this topic is useless by now.

[franky1]

You can't honestly believe that anybody you're arguing with is making the claim that someone was arrested for simply being a developer, can you?
....
Secondly, you're kidding yourself if you think that "facilitating money laundering" won't eventually be used to justify the arrest of someone for simply writing code, the writing is on the wall.

in one post.. and just a paragraph apart. you say that you think no one i was arguing with is making claims that someone was arrested for simply being a developer....
.. and then you come out and say ""eventually justify the arrest of someone for simply writing code"

see you just done it yourself!!
you just made the claim that you think that developers will get arrested for just writing code(22x facepalms)

read the source information not the social media whispers that get lost in translation down the conspiracy hole

he didnt just write code and then release it and then some other nefarious person used it where the developer had nothing to do with the actions after the nefarious person used it as a criminal mixer for hackers..

the developer STAYED INVOLVED and got compensated for his continual involvement by getting fee's from the laundering of the hackers funds..

thats why he got sanctioned (yep thats a charge) and comes with punishment.

so yea he is not just a 'uncharged' suspect.
EG under investigation where they need to gather enough evidence to even arrest someone..

he is arrested for certain crimes and sanctions, where his is suspected of being involved.
yep he been sanctioned. and has already had a hearing that said he has to stay in jail(no bond) until trial

he actually got arrested, and is spending time in jail pending a trial. which from what i can see may also include extradition to the US.
the 90day thing.. is standard practice between hearing and trial to allow both prosecution and defense have time to prepare for trial so they can make their case.

he most likely was not released on bail due to most likely and logically a huge flight risk (knows multiple contact world wide that could shelter him and fund him if he was to jump bail)

..
its not the social media whispers of the police just randomly putting someone in a jail cell for no reason at all..

the latest social media whisper trail of lost in transation conspiracy. today is:
that the idiots think the sanction should be thought of being related to russia, to then say he is not related and never done anything russian influenced.. as more idiot cries as silly things of "he didnt trade with russia so release him"1.
2

the actual facts, to clarify it before certain people take more mis-information to go viral with

the sanction is to do with vietnam hackers.not russians.. yep its not just russia on a sanction list.. yep vietnam hackers are also on the list.  yep a separate entity on the US sanctioned entity watch list, that triggered his sanction for actively being involved in their trades and him getting a fee of the trades with vietnam hackers.


..
and before certain people chime in that by me correcting the mis information must make me a government slave.. no.. im just trying to correct idiots so that by having the real information they can react appropriately to fact and not cry about fiction

[PowerGlove]

in one post.. and just a paragraph apart. you say that you think no one i was arguing with is making claims that someone was arrested for simply being a developer....
.. and then you come out and say ""eventually justify the arrest of someone for simply writing code"

see you just done it yourself!!
you just made the claim that you think that developers will get arrested for just writing code(22x facepalms)

You've got reading comprehension issues if you think I contradicted myself there. Read my post carefully, the first part is talking about the present and the next part is talking about the future...

he didnt just write code and then release it and then some other nefarious person used it where the developer had nothing to do with the actions after the nefarious person used it as a criminal mixer hackers..

the developer STAYED INVOLVED and got compensated for his continual involvement by getting fee's from the laundering of the hackers funds..

Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that franky, you covered it in your second-to-last post which I read before posting. How does that affect anything that I wrote?

[franky1]

You've got reading comprehension issues if you think I contradicted myself there. Read my post carefully, the first part is talking about the present and the next part is talking about the future...

because you are still trying to twist the facts..
yep you want to pretend its not your claim....  with your new silly divert that the meanings dont mean the same due to some time machine involvement of past/future pretense... even if the context is about claiming that its about arresting developers for just writing code no matter the time machine game you want to play.. to pretend you didnt mean its about developers just writing code. even if you then re hash the same thing by then saying again its about developers just wriging code..


so one last time.. he was not arrested just for writing code. the sanctions are not related to just writing code and they wont be used for just writing code.. he received a fee for being directly involved with facilitating a funds transfer for a criminal.. which is in the regulations.. watchlist/sanction list

he didnt just write code and then release it and then some other nefarious person used it where the developer had nothing to do with the actions after the nefarious person used it as a criminal mixer hackers..

the developer STAYED INVOLVED and got compensated for his continual involvement by getting fee's from the laundering of the hackers funds..

Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that franky, you covered it in your second-to-last post which I read before posting. How does that affect anything that I wrote?

also me repeating what he was actually arrested for is because you just said you want to ignore what he was actually arrested for. by pretending the actual arrest wording is a lie. so that you can make up a whole new story to fit your narrative..

Firstly, it's more than a little naive to simply accept their stated reason for arrest as being the whole truth.

see you again want to deny what the actual stated reason is.. yet again to then imply whatever narrative you then want to create

..
as for the derailing..
that game has been done by the certain group. when each person fails and gets debunked up pops their next buddy to start the pokes again and rehash the same silly nonsense that requires that person being debunked.. then when debunked the next pal of the last failed guy pops up.. hopefully by now you ran out of buddies to cry the same cries..

..
so back to the topic.
people need to read regulations and source data of actual things happening so they can actually learn how to work around problems others are falling into..
not be ignorant and pretend there is no explanation or that governments lie and that there is no information. so that you can try to continue in blissfull ignorance doing the same thing as usual and trying to dupe new recruits into your swamps because others got the hint to jump out before they get caught up in the regulatory issues..

using a mixer puts you on a watch list..
running a mixer and receiving a fee puts you on a watch list.
if they investigate you and find links to criminal activity while watching you. expect negative actions

in short. mixers will get you into more trouble than you think and dont protect you as much as you want it to

and for all the cry babies that just want to chant "didnt read wall of text" i made it simple a long time ago

[PowerGlove]

[...] yep you want to pretend its not your claim....  with your new silly divert that the meanings dont mean the same due to some time machine involvement of past/future pretense...

Okay, so if someone points out that you can't read for shit, you can avoid the whole issue by calling it a "silly divert". Where did you pick up that tactic, the latest issue of Smooth Brain Weekly?

Seriously, stop being so paranoid and just try to have a normal conversation...

My post contained three points which I'll elaborate on in an ill-advised effort to get to the bottom of this perplexing mess (not the dumpster fire that is this thread, but the confusing exchange we've just had):

Point A

There is a difference between being a developer and writing code. It's like the difference between being a welder and welding something together. One is a job description, the other is an action. I don't believe anybody in this thread ever believed that anyone was arrested based on their job description. Of course, this point is so mind-numbingly stupid that I can't believe I had to make it in the first place, and it wouldn't even have occurred to me, if not for this ridiculous quote of yours:

[...] it has nothing to do with "just being a developer" Eg just knowing C++

Point B

Blindly believing that the stated reason for an arrest encapsulates the whole truth and reveals all the motives behind it is shockingly naive.

Point C

This arrest does not bode well for the future. I'm sure that in this instance (Tornado Cash) the developer being involved in more than the coding was a great relief to the authorities because that fact was what allowed the arrest to take place. But, in my opinion, they probably resent that he wrote it at all. I believe that authorities will continue to look for ways to scare developers away from building certain kinds of software, because it's in their interests to do so (from their point of view, the less people working on things that make their lives harder, the better). There's already precedent for trying to control "distribution", and I don't see how future attempts to control "development" can be avoided.

Now, which of those three points do you have an issue with? If you come back at me with some incomprehensible gibberish about how I'm "trying to twist the facts" I'm putting you on ignore.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Me too. I put the guy back on ignore, but he's posted here 39 times and people keep entertaining him (I'm guilty of that a few times too) while he just repeats the same thing over and over again.

My bad. It is still important to occasionally debunk his nonsense, else we get in to a CSWesque situation where everyone who knows better just ignores him and then swarms of newbies read his unchallenged posts and think the best way to live their life is with zero privacy and the best way to use bitcoin is to leave it on a centralized exchange and never dare to withdraw it or spend it peer to peer else they end up on some watchlist.

-snip-

Point A is a strawman. He loves those.
Point B is simping for the government, as he's being doing all thread.
Point C will invite a text wall of ramblings about how he alone has interpreted the law correctly and we are all wrong.

[franky1]

powerglove
YOU are being pedantic with the developer/coder crap to try to escape saying what your saying
YOU are being pedantic with the post/future tense crap to try to escape saying what your saying.

but after all your word play twists of pedantic  synonym time-tense trickery, you then double down again to say you are ignoring how he was actually arrested, to then insert your conspiracy of how it was not about involvement in facilitating laundering for vietnam hackers. and how you want to think of it as being about just creating software(insert any synonym you like for creating software/developing/writing code.. post or future tense)

you are well trained by the dozen trolls that have their agenda to say bitcoin is not fit for purpose and devs should be scared and everyone should move to another network crap they have been shouting for a few years now..


but next time try to do some independent research and actually learn whats happening in the real world. not whats happening according to the whisper game of the social group of trolls/conspiracy nuts that have a agenda


there are many many many thousands of people that do the research, so dont rely on your prospective from the dozen people crowd that do not do research


its actually worth learning things. not relying on buddy whispers of conspiracy and ignorance,.

DO NOT REPLY if you just want to say something about franky... instead spend some time in the real world or learn something about the real world
anyways to get back on topic after the 12 member idiot club maybe takes a troll break to do some real research

using a mixer is actually categorically listed as a red flag. as are tumblers and other AEC's and also layering networks/technologies offering privacy and scaling solutions(LN) are mentioned in the regulations
it does not say at all that just using bitcoin in anyway is red flag event

emphasis mixers are categorically listed as red flag triggers of suspicion thus anyone using or making or organising a mixer would be on a watch list.

where by if they then are involved in a criminal act or aid and abet a criminal act they will obviously be handled

this does not mean just developing the software.. this does not mean just being a general bitcoin coder/developer
it does not state this.
nor does it state just being a bitcoin node user or a miner

[darewaller]

I also always supported that governments "can" put anyone in jail, literally anyone for any reason and anytime they want. The problem is not putting someone in jail, the problem is court giving him real jail time, because if you are a suspicious person who did something wrong according to law enforcement and then put to trial, that is just a few days to few weeks at most, then a Judge and Jury finding you guilty is a different thing.

If you are found guilty, that would be weird, and I think he may have "some" involvement with the fact that Tornado wasn't really just kittens and puppies which turned into bad, it was intended to use for exactly this reason and it was used like that and he acted as if "BUT WHY AM I BEING PUNISHED FOR JUST A CODE, THEY WERE THE ONES WHO USED IT BAD" when in fact he meant it to be used badly.

[Myleschetty]

About what happened to the Tornado cash dev team. This should be expected because you can't provide an anonymous/mixing service and disregard your privacy.
The issue of wasabi wallet using windfury is known because of the disadvantage of an open source code project.
The best way to taint a coin and not let it be obvious that the coin is tainted or mixed is by using DEX especially if the exchange focuses more on anonymous crypto trading just like the Crypton Exchange of Utopia P2P always executed.

[franky1]

by using DEX especially if the exchange focuses more on anonymous crypto trading

nope..
again regulations says they are definitely and categorically wanting VASPS to be on the look out for platforms that prioritise anonymity

304. Further information on red-flag indicators for VAs that could suggest criminal
behaviour are set out in the FATF’s Virtual Asset Red Flag Indicators of Money
Laundering and Terrorist Financing. These indicators help VASPs and other obliged
entities to detect and report suspicious transactions involving VAs. Key indicators
include:
a. Technological features that increase anonymity - such as mixers, tumblers or
AECs

be smarter.. dont advertise it as "privacy" "anonymity"
instead think about services like exchanges where when you deposit.. you pot coin A in.. but if you ask for a withdrawal . you in most cases getting coin B from another cold wallet.
this is not a privacy/anonymity tool.. this is just a glitch, random event. just a thing.. which exchanges do but are not meant as a feature..

so create a service that doest omit/promise something as a anonymity/privacy feature. but simply does it in a way that just looks like a glitch or side effect or something that is not intended to be used that way, but just happens to

there are other things..
have the mindset to think about how uber got away with taxicab regulations by not promoting themselves as taxicabs..

but also think about how the service operator gets paid..

think about how all them documentaries show how street hustler drug dealers get away with it.

instead of paying a guy and he hands the drugs.. = illegal drug deal..
they instead have a 2 point process.. one person takes the fee.. and then another step then does the deal. that way no one person can be done for doing a deal because that person didnt take the money and hand over the product

i know i was trying to not spell it out too easily for certain people.. but it seems i should atleast unwind he bottle a bit more and give some different people a few idea's to explore

i personally am not into drugs or criminal stuff. but i am into getting people to use their brains and think about things, especially sticking to reality

i dont mean create a service that is then called a swap/exchange/.. call it something else like a "property rights tool" dont explain things as mixing/anonymity/privacy

and dont have it where it can show the service is taking a fee (you know the other law last year about "a person/business doing a transaction on or behalf of another person, for a fee") aka VASP(becoming required to regulate if you were a business doing such for a fee)

think of something new. outside the box..

[n0nce]

About what happened to the Tornado cash dev team. This should be expected because you can't provide an anonymous/mixing service and disregard your privacy.

I think it's a personal choice; on the Bisq contributor list for instance, there are pseudonymous accounts and real-name accounts or accounts where the person behind it is known.
https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/graphs/contributors

Similar in other open-source projects like Wasabi where nopara73 = Adam Ficsor.

There are upsides and downsides to staying behind a pseudonym or not. For instance, if a project of yours gains traction and you start a company, your name will be on it in most countries. Or maybe if you're invited to conferences to show your project, the name could be leaked.

On the other hand, an authority can attempt to go after you - it doesn't have to affect the project, so keeping your privacy wouldn't be a measure for protecting the project but rather protecting yourself.

[tadamichi]

HE WAS NOT ARRESTED FOR "JUST" WRITING CODE
HE WAS ARRESTED FOR... "involvement in concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering"

I was gone for 2 weeks and still the same exact bs, you deserve the medal of cognitive dissonance and a better leash from the state after your service. Good boy franky.

By the governments logic, someone who builds bombs and kills people for them is a hero, and someone who writes tools to protect privacy against a more and more overreaching state is someone who assists crimes and should be jailed. Following this logic leads to nowhere in the end.

Criminals can use any service or tool, builders shouldn’t be responsible for their userbase, otherwise by this logic we would have to start jailing large parts of companies, because criminals use their products to facilitate crimes too. Why don’t they go after their ISPs now? This whole logic is simply complete bs and just applying it to specific scenarios doesn’t make it just. Mixing itself is not a crime, so it’s just people that gave up their principles of what’s really right, for a jungle of useless laws that have no touch to reality anymore, who would want mixer devs jailed or think it’s right to do this.

These tools aren’t made for criminals, they get caught with or without them. Otherwise we wouldn’t even know that a minority is using them. It proves that privacy doesn’t interfere with the abilities of law enforcement to a meaningful amount. There is enough other traces, so that it doesn’t matter if a mixer was used or not. It is the use of privacy itself that is being criminalised slowly, in a context where the government would like to archive every single penny you’ve ever spent, where it actually has a negative economic + societal impact when a braindead entity gets too many capabilities over their citizens. So either we bow down to some nonsense bureaucrats are trying to introduce again, or we actually stick to principles that we know are right and push back against it. That is actually our constitutional right to do, if people woke up and actually used it. Your call for people to follow the false roads the same entity that doesn’t even have the guts to calculate inflation correctly is trying to lead us to, will simply lead to negative outcomes for everyone. Comply for tyranny and broken economies/ societies?

im not going to spoon feed you swamp stirrers. i gave you all the hints i pointed you in the right direction of what to avoid and what to be aware of. if you cant then realise that you need to do something and it requires effort and thought and actually doing something beyond silly name changing.. . thats on you

work it out. think for once. or just continue your silly games

So it’s nothing more than an unproven idea that you don’t know yourself how to implement, and when property rights wouldn’t protect privacy you would still not change your opinion. It’s too predictable.

you want to say he was arrested for just writing code. because it sets your agenda that writing code for bitcoin is illegal(your agenda of saying bitcoin is bad, doesnt work, not fit, and any dev is at risk of arrest if they do anything for bitcoin)

Still the same fears of a hidden agenda and putting words into peoples mouth they’ve never even said or thought. Paranoia and projection.

[franky1]

Criminals can use any service or tool, builders shouldn’t be responsible for their userbase,

he was not arrested for just making a tool. and then handing it off and not being part of its latter use..

he was found to have taken a active and involved part its use, and also he received a fee from facilitating the vietnam hackers transactions..

might be worth you doing independent research as the story you are following seems to be the social drama misinterpretation game that pretends to not know what he was arrested for so they can insert any speculation they like for an agenda

im not going to spoon feed you swamp stirrers. i gave you all the hints i pointed you in the right direction of what to avoid and what to be aware of. if you cant then realise that you need to do something and it requires effort and thought and actually doing something beyond silly name changing.. . thats on you

work it out. think for once. or just continue your silly games

So it’s nothing more than an unproven idea that you don’t know yourself how to implement, and when property rights wouldn’t protect privacy you would still not change your opinion. It’s too predictable.

not unproven.. i already said look and do research..
i gave all the hints without spoonfeeding.. so now its upto you..

you want to say he was arrested for just writing code. because it sets your agenda that writing code for bitcoin is illegal(your agenda of saying bitcoin is bad, doesnt work, not fit, and any dev is at risk of arrest if they do anything for bitcoin)

Still the same fears of a hidden agenda and putting words into peoples mouth they’ve never even said or thought. Paranoia and projection.

there are many posts in this topic and others from the same dozen people that have said they beleive he was arrested for just being a coder.. heck even you in your response today have made that assumption too
here ill quote you

Criminals can use any service or tool, builders shouldn’t be responsible for their userbase,

By the governments logic, someone who builds bombs and kills people for them is a hero, and someone who writes tools to protect privacy against a more and more overreaching state is someone who assists crimes and should be jailed. Following this logic leads to nowhere in the end.

Criminals can use any service or tool, builders shouldn’t be responsible for their userbase, otherwise by this logic we would have to start jailing large parts of companies,

and no dont then say that (although your summary suggests the same narrative, because you now change a few synonyms or tenses or other small bits that you can pretend..) you have not been trying to say the same summary of thinking he was just being arrested for making a tool (aka the failed "not verbatim" misdirect)
and no knit picking that the lack of verbatim doesnt mean the context summarises your opinion to be the same contextually.. so dont play grammar games of distraction.. (its useless)



by you not doing the research to know what events actually took place.. you took AS QUOTED the SPECULATED conspiracy whisper theory narrative and the opinion that all he done was make a tool.. and then you set a narrative that the government is overreaching by arresting someone for just writing a tool(not verbatim)
yep YOUR summary of why the arrest occurred (your summary is wrong), because its based on a lack of research..


yep you are trying to play the same false narrative of saying its about just writing a tool(insert synonym of coder/developer. insert any tense pre-current-post)

so i debunked your buddies but it seems now you want to chime in to reset the debate as if the corrections didnt happen..... by you now double downing on that warped opinion.. just to get me post again about the same thing..
(yes not the first time the 12buddy group tried this tactic to take turns, each time one of them get debunked)
so now i have to correct you too..

..
dont reply until you have done the research on what actions he actually was involved in(actively facilitating and taking a fee for the actual laundered funds(thus aided and abetted)) and why he got arrested and sanctioned.
oh and he was charged. thats why at the hearing they decided there was enough to keep him in jail until trial(and he is a flight risk if released on bail)

.. and no dont reply that you are going to ignore the reasons because you dont want to believe the reasons or they dont fit your buddy script handed narrative you pass each other in whispers, lost in translations and misunderstandings..
just go do the research.. form an independant opinion that doesnt sound like a script of a groups naive summary...  and reply with facts and reality. not speculation and whispers and conspiracy theories

[tadamichi]

he was not arrested for just making a tool. and then handing it off and not being part of its latter use..

he was found to have taken a active and involved part its use, and also he received a fee from facilitating the vietnam hackers transactions..

Let’s wait for the actual case then, because none of this is stated in the official press release¹. Apparently 7 billion dollars passed trough the service, with 1 billion being of criminal origins. Then the question remains if he actually participated actively or passively(by running a service criminals abused). If simply providing this service will be judged as illegal then my point remains as above. If he actively was part of this and gets judged individually then you’re right.

¹ https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/

[franky1]

FACT suspects that through Tornado Cash has been used to conceal large-scale criminal money flows, including from (online) thefts of cryptocurrencies (so-called crypto hacks and scams). These included funds stolen through hacks by a group believed to be associated with North Korea. Tornado Cash started in 2019 and according to FACT it has since achieved a turnover of at least seven billion dollars. Investigations showed that at least one billion dollars' worth of cryptocurrencies of criminal origin passed through the mixer. It is suspected that persons behind this organisation have made large-scale profits from these transactions.

Since Monday 8 August 2022 Tornado Cash has been placed by the US government on the OFAC sanctions list of America.

The investigation is led by the Public Prosecutor’s Office for serious fraud, environmental crime and asset confiscation.

i know you want to ignore the parts of any involvement by tornado cash coder in the over 1bill.. but you neglect this part too

It is suspected that persons behind this organisation have made large-scale profits from these transactions.

he is not being arrested for being a code. he is being arrested for actively facilitating and profiting from the 1billion launder. where he made large scale profits from it.

you also want to think there was no charge or official court stuff.. where as you also forget/neglect

Since Monday 8 August 2022 Tornado Cash has been placed by the US government on the OFAC sanctions list of America.

its not a case of "he is just a bitcoin coder so all bitcoin coders should now be afraid.

its that he actively was involved in and received a fee for facilitating criminals

its called aiding and abetting AND proceeds of crime
                     the action..     AND    the profiteering

from what i can see.. he can then probably be in a case related to being extradited to the US to face the penalties of the SEC sanctions filing too

[tadamichi]

FACT suspects that through Tornado Cash has been used to conceal large-scale criminal money flows, including from (online) thefts of cryptocurrencies (so-called crypto hacks and scams). These included funds stolen through hacks by a group believed to be associated with North Korea. Tornado Cash started in 2019 and according to FACT it has since achieved a turnover of at least seven billion dollars. Investigations showed that at least one billion dollars' worth of cryptocurrencies of criminal origin passed through the mixer. It is suspected that persons behind this organisation have made large-scale profits from these transactions.

Since Monday 8 August 2022 Tornado Cash has been placed by the US government on the OFAC sanctions list of America.

The investigation is led by the Public Prosecutor’s Office for serious fraud, environmental crime and asset confiscation.

i know you want to ignore the parts of any involvement by tornado cash coder in the over 1bill.. but you neglect this part too

It is suspected that persons behind this organisation have made large-scale profits from these transactions.

he is not being arrested for being a code. he is being arrested for actively facilitating and profiting from the 1billion launder. where he made large scale profits from it.

I don’t want to ignore it. Im just unsure here, if it’s a service that is open to anyone and he couldn’t know who uses it, then to me it’s not participating actively. If he actually knew, then it’s another story. If he knew profits are stolen he should’ve never used them and actually inform law enforcement about it. Im just asking myself what a service that is truly private could do in a situation like this(tornado cash probably wasn’t), when they actually couldnt know about their service being abused, but it would still count as helping in crimes. Because then the problem arises that it would become mandatory to not allow full privacy for customers, when offering services.

its not a case of "he is just a bitcoin coder so all bitcoin coders should now be afraid.

Who ever said this? Also tornado cash is developed on ethereum i think. That people get alert in a case like this is just obvious, especially when there’s so much room for speculation and only little confirmed information yet.

its that he actively was involved in and received a fee for facilitating criminals


its called aiding and abetting AND proceeds of crime
                     the action..     AND    the profiteering

from what i can see.. he can then probably be in a case related to being extradited to the US to face the penalties of the SEC sanctions filing too

To me it seems like this case could set a precedence tho, so it’s not just about him.