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Author Topic: Proof of Signature + Lowest address wins coin distribution + Energy efficient  (Read 350 times)
Skybuck (OP)
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August 22, 2022, 01:23:21 PM
Last edit: August 22, 2022, 06:51:17 PM by Skybuck
 #1

Youtube video link where I discuss one out of two of bitcoin's main problems:

Problem 1: Coin distribution problem

Problem 2: Scalability problem.

I discuss problem 1:

https://youtu.be/QNKMpxZ2um0

So far the basic idea is to use "signed hashes" instead of "most powerfull hashes".

And the new/additional consensus rules that I have come up with so far are:

Basically I term/call/coin this new system: "Skybuck's Signed Hash Blockchain system"

Going to paste this text as it was described in the video above, maybe later I will work on it some more,

right now I am looking for feedback and critique if you think this system will work, or if you spot flaws and weaknesses in it ?!

PEER CONSENSUS RULES:

PEER CONSENSUS RULE 1. THE IP THRESHOLD RULE WITHIN A 10 MINUTE TIME FRAME.

PEERS WILL ONLY ACCEPT NEW BLOCKS WITHIN A 10 MINUTE TIME FRAME/PERIOD, WHERE THE BLOCK
WITH THE LOWEST IP ABOVE THE IP THRESHOLD WINS.


PEER CONSENSUS RULE 2. THE LONGEST BLOCKCHAIN WINS.

THE LONGEST BLOCKCHAIN WINS/IS SELECTED AS THE MOST VALID BLOCKCHAIN.


PEER CONSENSUS RULE 3. IF MULTIPLE DIFFERENT BLOCKS ARE DETECTED FROM A SINGLE PEER
THEN THESE BLOCKS AND THE PEER IS DISQUALIFIED AND THE IP THRESHOLD IS INCREMENTED + 1.


PEER CONSENSUS RULE 4. DISQUALIFICATIONS SHOULD BE BROADCASTED THROUGHOUT THE NETWORK,

BASICALLY THESE WOULD BE THE MULTIPLE BLOCKS. PEERS (GROUP A) THAT IGNORED THESE

DISQUALIFICATIONS SHOULD INFORM THE PEERS (GROUP B) (<-THAT HAVE DISQUALIFIED THESE BLOCKS OR

THESE PEERS) THAT THEY (GROUP A)(THE PEERS THAT IGNORED THESE DISQUALIFICAGIONS) DISAGREE AND

WILL CONTINUE WORKING ON A SPECIFIC CHAIN AND IT WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL TO INFORM (GROUP B)

OF WHICH BLOCK OUT OF THESE MULTI BLOCKS THEY SELECTED, SO THAT AT LEAST (GROUP A) CAN KEEP

THAT CHAIN IN THEIR MEMORY OR MAYBE THIS CAN BE DONE LATER.


PEER CONSENSUS RULE 5. IN CASE OF THE DETECTION/DETERMINATION OF DISQUALIFIED BLOCKS, WAIT

UNTIL IP THRESHOLD+1 (BASICALLY EITHER DISQUALIFIED BLOCK IP THRESHOLD +1) OR MAIN IP

THRESHOLD WHICH EVER IS HIGHER. IF THE PEER DECIDES TO DISQUALIFY THESE BLOCKS THE PEER SHOULD

MARK ITSELF AS DISQUALIFCATION-RE-SYNC-NEEDED.


PEER CONSENSUS RULES 6. IF THE DISQUALIFICATION-RE-SYNC-NEEDED FLAG IS SET THEN ON

INCREMENTATION OF THE IP THRESHOLD THE PEER SHOULD RE-SYNC ITSELF WITH OTHER PEERS THAT MAY

HAVE ACCEPTED THESE MULTI BLOCKS AND ASK THESE PEERS WHAT THEY NOW BELIEVE IS THE LONGEST

CHAIN...

MAYBE +1 IS A LITTLE BIT EARLY... BECAUSE THERE COULD BE MANY SPLITS ACROSS THE PEERS, MAYBE

THIS RE-SYNC THRESHOLD NEEDS TO BE SET A LITTLE BIT HIGHER LIKE +5 OR +6 OR +10.

THIS COULD BE CUSTOM SET AND REALLY LONG TERM IS NOT THAT MUCH OF A PROBLEM.

SO THERE MAY HAVE TO BE A PROTOCOL WHICH ALLOWS PEERS TO ASK ANOTHER PEER:
WHICH BLOCK DID YOU ACCEPT AT A CERTAIN IP THRESHOLD, OR ANOTHER IDEA COULD BE:
WHICH BLOCK DID YOU ACCEPT FOR BLOCK NUMBER X, X BEING THE BLOCK NUMBER WHICH WAS DISPUTED AND
MARKED AS DISQUALIFIED. GOOOD.
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August 22, 2022, 01:31:03 PM
Merited by BlackHatCoiner (2), ABCbits (1)
 #2

~
I just watched the first few seconds of this (!!)2:22 hour long(!!) video and I'm not sure whether you're genuine or trolling.

[1] This post reads like a shitpost (all caps, every second line is empty, no structure)
[2] Typing in all caps on notepad on a Windows 7 (?) machine with what looks like missing graphics drivers.
[3] Using terms such as 'proven by analysis' - which analysis? Where are your sources?
[4] Mocking normal words and names / speaking very oddly (weird sense of humor? drunk?)

In the first 3 minutes almost everything you said is wrong. I'm going to stop it right here to save my sanity.


To be totally honest, if you're not trolling, you should start from scratch again with the way you present your proposal. Maybe take inspiration from scientific publications such as in https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf.
Clear structure; Abstract, Introduction, a few technical chapters, Conclusions, Appendix and References.

Even if it's just a Bitcointalk post or a video, one can try to follow a similar format and keep it concise.
Let me tell you: nobody is going to watch this entire video.

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August 22, 2022, 01:40:11 PM
Merited by ABCbits (1)
 #3

Dude that's an almost 2 and a half hour long video where you slowly type your thoughts! I could only tolerate about 2 minutes of it and it seems like what you think is a "coin distribution problem" is something related to mining pools and hashrate and has nothing to do with coin distribution at all! It also is not exactly a "flaw" as you think it is.

Your shout-y all caps text here is also not very helpful. But something based on IP addresses that are very limited and can be faked very easily doesn't sound very reliable to me.

I suggest gathering your thoughts next time and try to keep things short, under 5 minutes maybe.

.
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n0nce
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August 22, 2022, 01:49:46 PM
 #4

Dude that's an almost 2 and a half hour long video where you slowly type your thoughts! I could only tolerate about 2 minutes of it and it seems like what you think is a "coin distribution problem" is something related to mining pools and hashrate and has nothing to do with coin distribution at all! It also is not exactly a "flaw" as you think it is.

Your shout-y all caps text here is also not very helpful. But something based on IP addresses that are very limited and can be faked very easily doesn't sound very reliable to me.

I suggest gathering your thoughts next time and try to keep things short, under 5 minutes maybe.
Yes; I actually clicked on the video to find out if he means something else than IP addresses when he writes IP here - after all, there are other abbreviations like intellectual property. But I didn't even get that far.

Skybuck, if you intend to base anything on IP addresses, that's going to be a fundamental flaw.

If you bothered to inform yourself before wasting 2:22h of your own time, you would know that satoshi himself mentioned one-IP-address-one-vote in the actual whitepaper and instead chose PoW, as he determined this is the only reliable way to prove you have some resource - in this case, a CPU / hardware + energy.

The proof-of-work also solves the problem of determining representation in majority decision
making. If the majority were based on one-IP-address-one-vote, it could be subverted by anyone
able to allocate many IPs. Proof-of-work is essentially one-CPU-one-vote.

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Skybuck (OP)
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August 22, 2022, 01:50:51 PM
 #5

~
I just watched the first few seconds of this (!!)2:22 hour long(!!) video and I'm not sure whether you're genuine or trolling.

[1] This post reads like a shitpost (all caps, every second line is empty, no structure)
[2] Typing in all caps on notepad on a Windows 7 (?) machine with what looks like missing graphics drivers.
[3] Using terms such as 'proven by analysis' - which analysis? Where are your sources?
[4] Mocking normal words and names / speaking very oddly (weird sense of humor? drunk?)

In the first 3 minutes almost everything you said is wrong. I'm going to stop it right here to save my sanity.


To be totally honest, if you're not trolling, you should start from scratch again with the way you present your proposal. Maybe take inspiration from scientific publications such as in https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf.
Clear structure; Abstract, Introduction, a few technical chapters, Conclusions, Appendix and References.

Even if it's just a Bitcointalk post or a video, one can try to follow a similar format and keep it concise.
Let me tell you: nobody is going to watch this entire video.

I understand your critique and I will try to address it and explain some of it:

1. I tried to improve the text somewhat by seperating the consensus rules with an extra space, I was also unhappy with the layout, however this idea is fresh from the mind, one day/few hours old and could definetly use some more work. However I share it immediately in case something strange happens to me, like airplane landing on my building.

2. The all caps is because I record this on a youtube livestream, not all watchers might be using high-resolution displays, it can also be beneficial to watch video at low resolution to be able to skip through it more fastly.

This is indeed an old windows 7 machine from 2012, though it's rock stable concering the OS, the 3D chip is indeed damaged cause of overheat, nothing I can do about it, when Ryzen 7000 comes out I may purchase it, but for now this old hardware usage does not matter much for developing ideas.

3. This should be common knowledge... the initial few blocks were analyzed by somebody.. and his conclusion was... multiple machines were used... try and google this... I have little interest in proving this... I take it as a given... doesn't really matter that much... the point is mute... mining pools are a reality.

4. Not sure which words you mean, this may be indeed my sense of humor.

I am not sure what you are referring to in the first 3 minutes, perhaps this is my personal oppinion about why bitcoin failed and is a failure, if you disagree with this statement then I can understand that, but I think you are wrong to say that I am wrong, bitcoin has been mine-pooled and thus it's initial vision failed. Try to get over that...
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August 22, 2022, 01:55:42 PM
 #6

Dude that's an almost 2 and a half hour long video where you slowly type your thoughts! I could only tolerate about 2 minutes of it and it seems like what you think is a "coin distribution problem" is something related to mining pools and hashrate and has nothing to do with coin distribution at all! It also is not exactly a "flaw" as you think it is.

Your shout-y all caps text here is also not very helpful. But something based on IP addresses that are very limited and can be faked very easily doesn't sound very reliable to me.

I suggest gathering your thoughts next time and try to keep things short, under 5 minutes maybe.
Yes; I actually clicked on the video to find out if he means something else than IP addresses when he writes IP here - after all, there are other abbreviations like intellectual property. But I didn't even get that far.

Skybuck, if you intend to base anything on IP addresses, that's going to be a fundamental flaw.

If you bothered to inform yourself before wasting 2:22h of your own time, you would know that satoshi himself mentioned one-IP-address-one-vote in the actual whitepaper and instead chose PoW, as he determined this is the only reliable way to prove you have some resource - in this case, a CPU / hardware + energy.

The proof-of-work also solves the problem of determining representation in majority decision
making. If the majority were based on one-IP-address-one-vote, it could be subverted by anyone
able to allocate many IPs. Proof-of-work is essentially one-CPU-one-vote.

Very interesting feedback so Satoshi Nakamoto did originally consider an IP-Addressed based blockchain, but for whatever reason unknown to use decided not too.

The argument stated is that it would be subverted by those with access to long ranges of IP addresses.

This may be a valid concern with the current design. I can indeed envision a situation where subsequent blocks are all produced by the same IP block range.

A solution to this concern is to RANDOMIZE the IP Threshold based on a RANDOMIZATION algorithm.

Thus would solve this problem, and allow the closest/nearest IP address to be accepted by the network, preventing and entire IP range of dominating the blockchain for a while.

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August 22, 2022, 01:59:50 PM
 #7

I am not sure what you are referring to in the first 3 minutes, perhaps this is my personal oppinion about why bitcoin failed and is a failure, if you disagree with this statement then I can understand that, but I think you are wrong to say that I am wrong, bitcoin has been mine-pooled and thus it's initial vision failed. Try to get over that...
Of course, 'Bitcoin failed and it's a failure' - it's just the most successful, most valuable and most used cryptocurrency so far.. Grin

So, what you're actually trying to say is not: 'Solution for the bitcoin distribution problem', but actually: 'Solution for the mining pool centralization problem'?
This little change alone would dramatically improve the chances of your topic gaining traction. Because the title is simply wrong.

Then, as we said before, just keep it compact.
I'd start something like this:

[1] Title: how to solve mining pool centralization
[2] First section: briefly introduce mining pool centralization and explain why that's an issue
[3] Next section: present existing solutions I've looked into and my thoughts on them
[4] Next section: present novel solution concisely, maybe with a graphic, even if it's just a code block with https://asciiflow.com/ graphics
[5] Conclusion

Not trying to tell anyone how to write their posts, just saying that when someone formats their topics like this, I have a much easier time scanning over it, figuring out if it's interesting, reading it thoroughly and making up my own thoughts about it.
If you write like above, all this structuring has to be done by the reader.

Very interesting feedback so Satoshi Nakamoto did originally consider an IP-Addressed based blockchain, but for whatever reason unknown to use decided not too.
Not 'reason unknown', the reason is in the quote.

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August 22, 2022, 03:20:46 PM
 #8

Attempt 2 at trying to explain Skybuck's Signed Hash blockchain idea and an IP based coin distribution system:

https://youtu.be/yFngGdGDPAU

However after analyzing the original bitcoin time window I do come to the conclusion that the 10 minute time window in bitcoin is a major flaw and a major weakness.

Even though this IP address coin distribution would make it a little bit better, than main weakness remains and easily dwarfs:

Bitcoin's 10 minute time window weakness/problem.

Let's see how many blocks bitcoin could have distributed over the last years since it's inception:

2022 - 2009 = 13 years.

So that is roughly

13 years x 365.25 days per year x 24 hours per day x 60 minutes per day / 10

minutes per block = 683.748 lucky persons.

So less than 1 million people, closer to 500.000 people would have been the lucky

ones.... and the rest would be left without coins and would have to beg or buy

from the lucky ones.

There are roughly 7 billion people on this planet if you believe that number.

So let's compute the "coverage" of this planet wide population in percentages

(683.748 / 7.000.0000.000) * 100% = 0,00976782857142857142857142857143%

It's not even 1 procent.
It's not even 0.1 procent
It's slightly below 0.01 procent.

YIKES !

(What this means for bitcoin and other cryptocoin systems with this 10 minute window):

So the conclusion for now is that bitcoin is for the lucky few, the elite, the
upper class in an ideal bitcoin distribution scenerio, best case scenerio.
However we all know, this is not even close to the thruth....
The real distribution percentage is probably much much much much much lower.
Something like:
0.000000001% because of all the greedy bitcoin mining farms/factories...
So I stand with my initial statement that bitcoin has completely failed in it's
objective of fairly distributing the coins among this world/population.
Is it a pyramid scheme, based on these numbers ?! and percentages ?!
I will let you be the judge of that !
Will this system succeed and be economically prosperus as they say in Star Trek...
where 99.99999999% of the people on this planet have no bitcoins to purchase
anything ?! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
I will let you think about that.
Perhaps now you understand why the bitcoin to dollar price is tanking/sacking...
going down to zzzzzzzzzerrrrrrrrooooooooooo.

I give up for now, trying to find a better coin distribution system.
Because even with Skybuck's ideas in an ideal/fair world. I think computation
above shows that the 10 minute time window is the real culprit... and is too slow
to distribute coins successfully across the world.
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August 22, 2022, 03:38:59 PM
Last edit: August 22, 2022, 06:52:05 PM by Skybuck
 #9

I am not sure what you are referring to in the first 3 minutes, perhaps this is my personal oppinion about why bitcoin failed and is a failure, if you disagree with this statement then I can understand that, but I think you are wrong to say that I am wrong, bitcoin has been mine-pooled and thus it's initial vision failed. Try to get over that...
Of course, 'Bitcoin failed and it's a failure' - it's just the most successful, most valuable and most used cryptocurrency so far.. Grin

So, what you're actually trying to say is not: 'Solution for the bitcoin distribution problem', but actually: 'Solution for the mining pool centralization problem'?
This little change alone would dramatically improve the chances of your topic gaining traction. Because the title is simply wrong.

Then, as we said before, just keep it compact.
I'd start something like this:

[1] Title: how to solve mining pool centralization
[2] First section: briefly introduce mining pool centralization and explain why that's an issue
[3] Next section: present existing solutions I've looked into and my thoughts on them
[4] Next section: present novel solution concisely, maybe with a graphic, even if it's just a code block with https://asciiflow.com/ graphics
[5] Conclusion

Not trying to tell anyone how to write their posts, just saying that when someone formats their topics like this, I have a much easier time scanning over it, figuring out if it's interesting, reading it thoroughly and making up my own thoughts about it.
If you write like above, all this structuring has to be done by the reader.

Very interesting feedback so Satoshi Nakamoto did originally consider an IP-Addressed based blockchain, but for whatever reason unknown to use decided not too.
Not 'reason unknown', the reason is in the quote.

1. Pool mining is not part of the official bitcoin protocol and it's not a good technical solution for the bitcoin idea. What I am trying to explain in the video is that pool mining is dangerous and there may come a day when the pools will all join together to destroy the system. They will have that power. There is technically nothing stopping the pools from doing this. So far now this not happening is based on psychologically and expected economic profits, not technically and therefore it's technically dangerous and a ticking time bomb.

I now agree with you that the title was somewhat optimistic and jumping the gun, after analysis I come to the conclusion that it only improvements the coin distribution of bitcoin, it does do something else interesting, it's much more energy efficient. So based on these two points I have changed the original title.

Original title was: Solution for the bitcoin distribution problem.
Modified title is now: Improvement for coin distribution (problem). Side effect: Energy efficient
Final title will be: Proof of Signature + Lowest address wins coin distribution  + Energy efficient
to more accurately describe the ideas in these texts and the video.

2. Good point, maybe I will try in the future, but for now I am exhausted and came to the conclusion the 10 minute time windows is the main weakness in bitcoin original system design. I do concur that as long as the mining pools do not join forces the mining pool could be a solution for people to acquire some modest ammount of bitcoins. So an adhoc solution it is for now.

3. I know of power/prove of vote or power/prove of stake or something like that... not sure if it uses signed hashes idea however most likely it does use a 5 or 10 minute time window and is most likely limited in that regards and has the same distribution flaw as bitcoin Wink

4. I did include some graphics at the start of attempt 2, to at least explain the Signed Hash idea.

5. My conclusion for is bitcoin's original coin distribution method/10 minute time window is heavily flawed, it's now being kept alive by an adhoc solution: mining pools where there is a danger of total system collapse if they join forces/pools.

A caution/featuristic conclusion/solution would be to speed up the blocks/time window... or maybe indeed incoorporate mining pools into some kind of official protocol specification, but in such a way that a major/above 50% is technically impossible.

But I will leave that to either somebody else or another time, I am butting out of this discussion/idea for now, but I do believe Signed Hashes might be a little/small improvement towards a better cryptocoin system. It at least gets rid of the "computation horse power" and "global warming" so there might be something to it, but for a different reason: less energy usage.

I also thank you for your feedback and how to improve. I liked your none-white-line point based critique/feedback, easy to read and easy to process/respond too.
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August 22, 2022, 04:35:02 PM
 #10

Let's see how many blocks bitcoin could have distributed over the last years since it's inception:

2022 - 2009 = 13 years.

So that is roughly

13 years x 365.25 days per year x 24 hours per day x 60 minutes per day / 10

minutes per block = 683.748 lucky persons.

So less than 1 million people, closer to 500.000 people would have been the lucky

ones.... and the rest would be left without coins and would have to beg or buy

from the lucky ones.

If you are implying that everyone should be getting a block reward, you should know that in the United States and literally every other country, nobody mints their own cash either.

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tromp
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August 22, 2022, 05:00:45 PM
 #11

I think computation above shows that the 10 minute time window is the real culprit... and is too slow
to distribute coins successfully across the world.

Not every bitcoin owner needs to have an entire block reward. You could split up the 7.5B people in the world into
750K groups of 10K. If each group won one of the 750K blocks so far, then each group could split the reward of say, 25 BTC = 2500M satoshi into 250K satoshi for each member.

Remember there are plenty satoshi to go around...
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August 22, 2022, 05:35:15 PM
Last edit: August 23, 2022, 08:23:50 AM by BlackHatCoiner
 #12

Honestly now, you must have some hard time comprehending this whole thing, don't you? I mean, judging by your previous threads, "Blockchain per region", "Complete blockchain for 1 BTC", "A legal solution for bitcoin. (Max 5 computers per person to mine bitcoins)", you must have clearly missed some points, but that's fine. We all learn. What isn't fine is to yell at your threads by writing in upper case. If nobody has taken you seriously 'til now, I assure you that's one of the reasons.

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August 22, 2022, 10:15:47 PM
Last edit: August 22, 2022, 10:34:02 PM by n0nce
Merited by vapourminer (2), ABCbits (2)
 #13

Attempt 2 at trying to explain Skybuck's Signed Hash blockchain idea and an IP based coin distribution system:

https://youtu.be/yFngGdGDPAU
Dear Skybuck.. that's again over an hour. Grin I appreciate you recording for over 3 hours today, but I don't have the time to watch such long videos. What I can do is reply to forum posts.

However after analyzing the original bitcoin time window I do come to the conclusion that the 10 minute time window in bitcoin is a major flaw and a major weakness.
Interesting hypothesis. Let's see.

Let's see how many blocks bitcoin could have distributed over the last years since it's inception:
2022 - 2009 = 13 years.
So that is roughly
13 years x 365.25 days per year x 24 hours per day x 60 minutes per day / 10
minutes per block = 683.748 lucky persons.

So less than 1 million people, closer to 500.000 people would have been the lucky
ones.... and the rest would be left without coins and would have to beg or buy
from the lucky ones.
First of all, you're overcomplicating things again. The number of mined blocks as of now is 750642. You can look it up on your own node using bitcoin-cli getblockcount or open a block explorer like https://mempool.space/.

There are roughly 7 billion people on this planet if you believe that number.
So let's compute the "coverage" of this planet wide population in percentages
(683.748 / 7.000.0000.000) * 100% = 0,00976782857142857142857142857143%
Alright, so you figured out that if every single person was mining, due to only 6 blocks being mined per hour on average, not everyone can get a block reward.
However, we have mining pools. They pay per share, so I can mine for 10 years, never submitting a winning block to the pool, yet still get paid perfectly fine according to my hashrate in proportion to total hashrate.
Mining pools, actually fix this problem.

(What this means for bitcoin and other cryptocoin systems with this 10 minute window):

So the conclusion for now is that bitcoin is for the lucky few, the elite, the
upper class in an ideal bitcoin distribution scenerio, best case scenerio.
That's a wrong conclusion, as there are mining pools (see above). Everyone can mine, even with a little USB stick like the Compac F, pointed to a pool will get them around 100sat a day. They might never find a block, but they'll sure as hell get their daily payouts (been there, done that).

So I stand with my initial statement that bitcoin has completely failed in it's
objective of fairly distributing the coins among this world/population.
Besides the fact that this wasn't its only / main objective, actually it wasn't a Bitcoin objective at all to distribute it evenly among the whole population. I think it's easy to understand that mining is the most fair way to distribute coins in existence. The more power you put in, the more coins you get out. It sounds pretty fair to me. Why should someone building a farm, investing millions of dollars in equipment and installation, get as much daily coins as someone just buying a $200 Compac F?

Perhaps now you understand why the bitcoin to dollar price is tanking/sacking...
going down to zzzzzzzzzerrrrrrrrooooooooooo.
That's absolutely not why the exchange rate has dipped. Remember the graph looked very much like it does now, dozens of times, just with lower peaks. But the exponential growth, followed by a drastic crash, is something that's been repeating over and over since Bitcoin's inception. And every time people said 'now it's surely going to zero', until they understood.

Anyhow, if you believe other coins are performing better, due to a better 'distribution scheme', choose a bunch and look at how they're performing against Bitcoin in the current bear market. Most coins have lost against Bitcoin, actually.

1. Pool mining is not part of the official bitcoin protocol and it's not a good technical solution for the bitcoin idea. What I am trying to explain in the video is that pool mining is dangerous and there may come a day when the pools will all join together to destroy the system. They will have that power.
First of all, they cannot 'destroy the system'. A few pools could collude to censor transactions and stuff like that, but the rest of the Bitcoin world would notice, dismiss that chain and all the work gone into it would have been for naught. Wasted energy and money.

If pools were able to collude to destroy Bitcoin, they would destroy their very income stream. It's like saying 'employees are a bad idea because they can kill their boss' or something like that. If they do it, they're without a job. (and probably in prison)

3. I know of power/prove of vote or power/prove of stake or something like that... not sure if it uses signed hashes idea however most likely it does use a 5 or 10 minute time window and is most likely limited in that regards and has the same distribution flaw as bitcoin Wink
PoS is a whole other can of worms; I suggest you inform about both systems thoroughly before jumping to odd conclusions.
The path of enlightenment takes time and effort. This is not meant as an insult, but as an encouragement to continue studying. Lots of stuff will clear up for you, I'm sure, with time... Smiley



5. My conclusion for is bitcoin's original coin distribution method/10 minute time window is heavily flawed, it's now being kept alive by an adhoc solution: mining pools where there is a danger of total system collapse if they join forces/pools.
If you're interested, you may want to look into decentralized mining pools where there's no central pool admin who could decide to collude with another pool. Also consider reading about game-theoretic reasons why pool centralization is not desirable and miners themselves are motivated to switch pool when they see their pool getting too much hashrate.

A caution/featuristic conclusion/solution would be to speed up the blocks/time window... or maybe indeed incoorporate mining pools into some kind of official protocol specification, but in such a way that a major/above 50% is technically impossible.
Solving the challenge of an entity owning / controlling 50% of hashrate is an interesting topic, but it's been discussed before and is totally off-topic now.

But I will leave that to either somebody else or another time, I am butting out of this discussion/idea for now.
Don't feel discouraged. I appreciate the effort and enthusiasm, but it has become clear to me that you've just got a lot of catching up to do. Most people do, myself included, so don't feel bad about it. I hope you could learn something from our replies and find topics to dig into a little bit more.

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August 23, 2022, 12:50:41 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #14

So that is roughly

13 years x 365.25 days per year x 24 hours per day x 60 minutes per day / 10

minutes per block = 683.748 lucky persons.

So less than 1 million people, closer to 500.000 people would have been the lucky

ones.... and the rest would be left without coins and would have to beg or buy

from the lucky ones.

1. Mining pool exist, so it could be more than 683.748 persons.
2. No one needs to beg, exchange exist.

I give up for now, trying to find a better coin distribution system.
Because even with Skybuck's ideas in an ideal/fair world. I think computation
above shows that the 10 minute time window is the real culprit... and is too slow
to distribute coins successfully across the world.

If you think 10 minutes block time is too slow, you also should think how to significantly reduce orphan block on lower block time.

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August 23, 2022, 06:25:16 PM
 #15

Man, I am really sorry, tried to see your video and read your post, but the caps and the way you speak made me to ask myself: are you trolling?
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August 25, 2022, 04:51:07 PM
 #16

Video Attempt 1 was too long and chaotic and annoying at the start.

Video Attempt 2 forgot to include some essential new fields. Plus I also had some good feedback from Captain Hook on PascalCoin's discord channel, which has led to a little extended idea how to generate the IP threshold better so it becomes less predictable which can be an adventage to try and stop people from manipulating their IP address in advanced to get as close as possible to the IP threshold:

Video Attempt 3 to explain core concepts:

https://youtu.be/4BIa4b8T_JQ

I am still interested in hearing any feedback/critique on this idea, especially because in the future maybe the 10-minute time window of bitcoin can be made faster to produce more blocks to give people more chances to acquire a block ! Wink


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August 26, 2022, 01:10:11 PM
 #17

in the future maybe the 10-minute time window of bitcoin can be made faster to produce more blocks to give people more chances to acquire a block ! Wink
Why exactly do you believe it's that important for everyone / more people to be able to mine a block?
To be honest, even if we decrease the block time by a factor of 100, I guarantee you that the vast majority of miners doesn't have the hashpower to statistically get a block.
For your idea to work, you'd need to reduce the block time by a much larger factor, which would make it impossible to synchronize the blockchain globally - a much more important metric, in my book.

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August 26, 2022, 01:55:13 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #18

I am still interested in hearing any feedback/critique on this idea, especially because in the future maybe the 10-minute time window of bitcoin can be made faster to produce more blocks to give people more chances to acquire a block !
To add up to n0nce's post:

  • Lowering the block interval with the same block subsidy will disrupt monetary policy, and lowering the block interval with lowering the block subsidy as well won't make any difference to their reward.
  • They don't have to mine a whole block. That's why pools exist.
  • Lowering the block interval means higher chances to have orphaned blocks, and thus, lower security with the same hashrate.

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August 28, 2022, 01:06:58 AM
 #19

in the future maybe the 10-minute time window of bitcoin can be made faster to produce more blocks to give people more chances to acquire a block ! Wink
Why exactly do you believe it's that important for everyone / more people to be able to mine a block?
To be honest, even if we decrease the block time by a factor of 100, I guarantee you that the vast majority of miners doesn't have the hashpower to statistically get a block.
For your idea to work, you'd need to reduce the block time by a much larger factor, which would make it impossible to synchronize the blockchain globally - a much more important metric, in my book.

Mining via mining pools adds a lot of additional complexity to the software stack. It also makes it harder to re-purpose or re-use existing blockchain technology for other purposes.

Reducing software complexity by solving these problems in a more efficient way is worth it to me at least.
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August 29, 2022, 04:57:57 AM
 #20


Dear Skybuck.. that's again over an hour. Grin I appreciate you recording for over 3 hours today, but I don't have the time to watch such long videos. What I can do is reply to forum posts.

it would be a shame if he really had something though and no one wanted to go through his videos to try and understand it all. 3 hours of banging on that keyboard nonstop notwithstanding. Angry

However after analyzing the original bitcoin time window I do come to the conclusion that the 10 minute time window in bitcoin is a major flaw and a major weakness.
it seems to have worked ok so far. what makes it a major weakness? just answer it in 2 or 3 simply worded sentences.

BTW, Nice job on this other video:Why mutilations and abductions happen (realistically) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHMHQL6K-u0 you definitely on to something there.
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