Trust abuse by user SFR10

[YCTMatt]

Dear SFR10, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=521899
I am owner of MinersMall and my worker just let me know that you have placed negative feedback in our profile without single reason or being our customer at all.
We like to inform you that we work with top 25 Chinese company and everyone can confirm partnership with us.
We offer proof of ownership for our miners, we also offer secure way thru Alibaba and etc if the buyer needs buyer protection.
May we know the reason of your trust abuse? Because there is nothing else than trust abuse for this negative feedback.
If its because our topic is closed, this topic is not for negotiation, posts and etc.
We are using it to update daily prices, miners and stock.
We don't need any posts on it, we don't deal in the forum directly, only if customer needs it.
We are not here for feedback also, we already have big feedback from most of the biggest sellers in Alibaba.
So, kindly explain us the reason of your trust abuse please.
Thank you.

YCT Matt

[Casino Critique]

As the feedback says,

I'm temporarily leaving negative feedback to protect potential buyers!

I hope you will be able to resolve it.

[YCTMatt]

There is nothing to be resolved.
We provide proof of ownership, we provide secure payment method such as Alibaba escrow if buyer require it.
This topic is needed only to post our new arrivals and prices and that's why it is locked.

[Beparanf]

This is not a trust abuse but rather just a personal opinion of the DT that has something risky that saw on your service to protect buyer. The only thing to resolve it is to answer what he is asking and simply explain yourself.  This is how trust system works and he noted that the feedback is temporary which means that he is waiting something from you to clear his doubts. That negative feedback will never be removed unless the person itself removed it.

[Solosanz]

I wonder how can SFR10 can trust a newbie account create 2 days ago?

He create an account just to accuse someone without any proof, locked topic doesn't always mean the seller is a scammer and you're have a right to create an accusation on scam accusations section.

Hi Guys,

Be very careful of a new forum member on here named "YCTMatt". He has photos of some friend he has in China with miners, but is a scam. Several folks have sent him BTC for miners and got nothing in return except for fake tracking numbers. Mods need to do something about this ASAP. He also locks the thread so no one can respond in his thread. Buyer beware guys! Buyer Beware

Although I don't know how trustworthy YCTMatt, but leaving a negative tag for this case isn't appropriate and his reputation already destroyed. Let's say I offer a service and still doesn't have any customers, then someone accuse me without any proof.

How can I prove if I'm legit seller if other users already scared due to the negative tag on my account before they want to use my service?

The tag should be revised to neutral.

[Lucius]

To begin with, I can say that @SFR10 is not a member who just leaves negative feedback without being well versed in something, and I believe that this is also the case here, considering that two other members left negative feedback in which they claim that they were scammed by @YCT Matt. 

I wonder how can SFR10 can trust a newbie account create 2 days ago?
---
Although I don't know how trustworthy YCTMatt, but leaving a negative tag for this case isn't appropriate and his reputation already destroyed. Let's say I offer a service and still doesn't have any customers, then someone accuse me without any proof.

Yes, I know they are beginners, but there is still reasonable doubt and therefore I don't think that someone's reputation is irreversibly destroyed because feedback can always be changed or deleted. In addition, such a serious company as they present themselves should have at least something more than an ordinary Telegram account if they already refer to professionalism, transparency, and security in business.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I will be looking forward to SFR10 to give some light in this thread. I am not sure if YCTMatt and SFR10 had any private conversation but it's better to contact a PM conversation before making it public. It seems YCTMatt is offering a service. If he is legit then the negative feedback will obviously hurt his business.

I trust SFR10 but leaving a negative feedback and then asking for answer seems like very similar practice like JollyGood.

We are not here for feedback also, we already have big feedback from most of the biggest sellers in Alibaba.

I am not familiar with Alibaba but at least you can link the account so that we can see your feedback history on there. I hope it will be good. Please don't expect random forum users to go to search in different places and look for reference. Provide as much as supporting links you can on the OP so that it become easier for others to check your business history.

[YCTMatt]

I am not looking to force anyone paying us upfront by showing any feedback.
Alibaba have escrow system and it is secure for the buyer if he needs escrow.
We haven't done deal so far in this forum for this "several people send him bitcoin and they were scammed" to be true.
Users always can upfront if they want, but if they need protection, it always be used.
I am not aware of what we are defending here consider we don't violate any written or non written rule as we provided proof for our miners as we already stated, and we provide security for the buyer.
If someone like to abuse his powers to kick the competition that's different thing.
Otherwise, who said what without proofs is just trash talk and should not be considered.

YCT Matt

[LoyceV]

I think negative feedback is too strong if it's based on only this post:

Hi Guys,

Be very careful of a new forum member on here named "YCTMatt". He has photos of some friend he has in China with miners, but is a scam. Several folks have sent him BTC for miners and got nothing in return except for fake tracking numbers. Mods need to do something about this ASAP. He also locks the thread so no one can respond in his thread. Buyer beware guys! Buyer Beware

Neutral feedback should be more than enough to point any potential buyer towards that post, so they can make their own decision. I kinda expect people who pay thousands of dollars for hardware to take their own precautions anyway, and not just trust anything they see online.

Newbie whitepunk has a point about the locked thread though. @YCTMatt: it's better if you unlock your topic, instead of asking people to contact you on (scammers' paradise) Telegram.

[SFR10]

Dear SFR10,

I love how quickly your tone changed in comparison to your earlier PM!

my worker just let me know that you have placed negative feedback in our profile without single reason or being our customer at all.
~Snipped~
May we know the reason of your trust abuse?
~Snipped~
So, kindly explain us the reason of your trust abuse please.

I'm going to pretend your so-called worker, didn't inform you about the response that I gave in less than 20 minutes of you or one of your workers sending me the PM earlier!
^{- In other words, all of these are just repetitive questions.}

We like to inform you that we work with top 25 Chinese company and everyone can confirm partnership with us.

If that's true, that's impressive... Do you mind listing the names of these 25 companies and how I should refer to you when contacting them?

We offer proof of ownership for our miners,

I've spent enough time in this field to know that such things ^{[e.g. images with the name and the date]} can also be faked ^{[unfortunately]}!
^{- I'm not implying that's the case here, but it's a possibility.}

If its because our topic is closed,

No, that's not the sole reason but FYI, it's considered a red flag.

We are using it to update daily prices,

I'm curious to know how can you afford to sell those miners at such low prices.

e.g.
Goldshell KD MAX is currently being sold at "$12,205 – $12,230" on their website and you're selling it for only "9800$ ^{[too good to be true]}".

We don't need any posts on it, we don't deal in the forum directly, only if customer needs it.

Regardless of the need to post anything from your side or not, you shouldn't lock it ^{[it's not a good practice to point users towards other platforms that are filled with scammers]}.

we already have big feedback from most of the biggest sellers in Alibaba.

A link would be nice.
@YCTMatt
I'm not sure why you didn't notify me after creating this thread, but regardless of that, one of the victims contacted me and provided a bit more details but I still asked for more before including those things in this thread ^{[with their permission]}...

[DireWolfM14]

I think negative feedback is too strong if it's based on only this post:

~

Neutral feedback should be more than enough to point any potential buyer towards that post, so they can make their own decision. I kinda expect people who pay thousands of dollars for hardware to take their own precautions anyway, and not just trust anything they see online.

Normally I would be in agreement with this, and at first I had the same reaction.  But, even before seeing SFR10's reply just above I looked through the OPs posts, and decided SFR10's precautionary red-tag may not be out-of-line after all.

Newbie whitepunk has a point about the locked thread though. @YCTMatt: it's better if you unlock your topic, instead of asking people to contact you on (scammers' paradise) Telegram.

That's a red flag, but it's far from being the only one.  All the photos on the telegram channel seem staged, and the prices of the equipment are on the "too good to be true" side of the spectrum.  At this point I can't help but agree that dealing with this user poses a high risk.

[bitbollo]

I have a curiosity @YCTMatt ... this for me is a kind of red flag or at least a bit suspicious
in the end you accept or do not accept the use of an escrow here from the forum?
I saw in the reference topic that you did not answer this question!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5410523.msg60799151#msg60799151
for example I have never used alibaba as a service (and I don't know how it can really be helpful since I am based in another continent and resolve an issue it's clear impossible).
So did you accept forum escrow? Thank you in advance

[YCTMatt]

I think negative feedback is too strong if it's based on only this post:

Hi Guys,

Be very careful of a new forum member on here named "YCTMatt". He has photos of some friend he has in China with miners, but is a scam. Several folks have sent him BTC for miners and got nothing in return except for fake tracking numbers. Mods need to do something about this ASAP. He also locks the thread so no one can respond in his thread. Buyer beware guys! Buyer Beware

Neutral feedback should be more than enough to point any potential buyer towards that post, so they can make their own decision. I kinda expect people who pay thousands of dollars for hardware to take their own precautions anyway, and not just trust anything they see online.

Newbie whitepunk has a point about the locked thread though. @YCTMatt: it's better if you unlock your topic, instead of asking people to contact you on (scammers' paradise) Telegram.

Thanks for your opinion Loyce! All instant chat programs should be called "Scammers paradise" based on the  things i read so far in many topics how people react on outside forum deals.
If i unlock my topic, which we don't need any posts on it than only ours for stock and prices, people like this one who post non-proof based non-sense will spam on it.
Canaan, Creative Zhensen and many many more all using Telegram.
Just because many scammers using it, that doesn't mean everyone using Telegram is scam.
We, the suppliers most of the time using WhatsApp, which is also known as "scammers paradise".
But we want or no, we have to use instant-chat programs to communicate.
You should not put everyone in same shoe just because some instant-chat app have bad reputation-

I have a curiosity @YCTMatt ... this for me is a kind of red flag or at least a bit suspicious
in the end you accept or do not accept the use of an escrow here from the forum?
I saw in the reference topic that you did not answer this question!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5410523.msg60799151#msg60799151
for example I have never used alibaba as a service (and I don't know how it can really be helpful since I am based in another continent and resolve an issue it's clear impossible).
So did you accept forum escrow? Thank you in advance

We are not forced to use bitcointalk escrow.
We can use Alibaba escrow, Aliexpress escrow and so.
Don't get me wrong, people scam quit, automated escrow service cannot scam quit.
I already answer the part with the "escrow" but seems like no one reading.
Trust me, we don't expect people to send us blindly thousands of usd on this forum.
We are open to any non-human based escrow service.
Once again, full respect on each escrow here but people scam and automated escrow systems don't

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[DireWolfM14]

If i unlock my topic, which we don't need any posts on it than only ours for stock and prices, people like this one who post non-proof based non-sense will spam on it.

That may be true, but in normal circumstances newbies posting unproven accusations will largely go ignored, especially if the organization in question has a good reputation.  If the service provider is new, or otherwise unproven, then it's their obligation to put others' minds at ease.  Post links to your reviews or other references.  It's one thing to come here and claim that you're legit, and then there're actions you can take to prove it.  So far, you've only made the claims.

Canaan, Creative Zhensen and many many more all using Telegram.
Just because many scammers using it, that doesn't mean everyone using Telegram is scam.
We, the suppliers most of the time using WhatsApp, which is also known as "scammers paradise".
But we want or no, we have to use instant-chat programs to communicate.
You should not put everyone in same shoe just because some instant-chat app have bad reputation-

Deflection is not a professional way to deal with criticism.  All of us who use Telegram are aware of it's legitimate uses, there's no need to remind us.  We're also aware of how simple it is for people to completely disappear from Telegram.

Again, if you want to put an end to these allegations the ball is in your court.  If you were to post links to your reviews and partner referrals, I'm sure SFR10 will remove his negative review, and most likely this thread will wither away.  Isn't that what you want?

[YCTMatt]

If i unlock my topic, which we don't need any posts on it than only ours for stock and prices, people like this one who post non-proof based non-sense will spam on it.

That may be true, but in normal circumstances newbies posting unproven accusations will largely go ignored, especially if the organization in question has a good reputation.  If the service provider is new, or otherwise unproven, then it's their obligation to put others' minds at ease.  Post links to your reviews or other references.  It's one thing to come here and claim that you're legit, and then there're actions you can take to prove it.  So far, you've only made the claims.

Canaan, Creative Zhensen and many many more all using Telegram.
Just because many scammers using it, that doesn't mean everyone using Telegram is scam.
We, the suppliers most of the time using WhatsApp, which is also known as "scammers paradise".
But we want or no, we have to use instant-chat programs to communicate.
You should not put everyone in same shoe just because some instant-chat app have bad reputation-

Deflection is not a professional way to deal with criticism.  All of us who use Telegram are aware of it's legitimate uses, there's no need to remind us.  We're also aware of how simple it is for people to completely disappear from Telegram.

Again, if you want to put an end to these allegations the ball is in your court.  If you were to post links to your reviews and partner referrals, I'm sure SFR10 will remove his negative review, and most likely this thread will wither away.  Isn't that what you want?

Once again, we do not expect people to pay us upfront based on any reputation.
Our reputation can be easy proven with simple phone call or different method with many of the Alibaba suppliers.
Yes it is new here, not new in the selling mining scene.
Our claims can be easy proven or they can be ignored and escrow service such as Alibaba could be used, that depends on the buyer.
We do not refuse buyer security, so our claims doesn't even affect or matter here.
You cannot be sure will other person remove any review because it was placed without any proof, so if the very same user care about proofs, he would never post anything like that.
I am not aware why should i repeat myself about the escrow service and proof of ownership.
Both of them are provided, both of them can be used by the buyer by any way he desire.
What someone claim without proofs should be considered as trash talk.

P.S: We only want reputation no matter good or bad based on proofs. We will go thru our way to be known here also And if its proof based, it will be positive for sure.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

[..]

Thanks brother to put lights on the case.

[...]

You still have not linked your Alibaba profile so that we can see your feedback. You are losing your chances to protect your business from this community. Please don't ask to believe your words where you can easily give us good reference.

[bitbollo]

....

no you haven't replied before to that question but you have always mentioned that you want to offer you rely in Alibaba.

this forum has some escrows really experts in this field (mining) and many others that has offered their service for thousands of dollars... they are acting with large sums of money....
 I don't know why an automated trusted system from a third part site (!) should be more effective than a reputable escrow from the forum but thank you for your answer

[YCTMatt]

We supply the sellers on Alibaba, we don't need Alibaba profile.
If someone wants to buy the miners we provide, we redirect the buyers to our Alibaba partners.
Whoever offer better price for the seller, he get recommended.
I should ask our 20+ partners should i post their Alibaba profiles here or not.
If that's allowed here and they have no problems with that, i will be more than happy to make free advertise.
So buying from me, or from my partners that using Alibaba is the very same.

I will share those who won't mind giving them free advertise:
https://cooldragon.en.alibaba.com/
https://pmglobal.alibaba.com
https://www.alibaba.com/premiumsupplier/shenzhen_apexto_electronic.html

....

no you haven't replied before to that question but you have always mentioned that you want to offer you rely in Alibaba.

this forum has some escrows really experts in this field (mining) and many others that has offered their service for thousands of dollars... they are acting with large sums of money....
 I don't know why an automated trusted system from a third part site (!) should be more effective than a reputable escrow from the forum but thank you for your answer

Automated system would be ALWAYS more trusted than any human being.
As i said above, statistics shows that people scam quit for many reasons, system cannot scam quit.
Not sure why different people repeat same questions which were already answered

[bitbollo]

...
Automated system would be ALWAYS more trusted than any human being.
As i said above, statistics shows that people scam quit for many reasons, system cannot scam quit.
Not sure why different people repeat same questions which were already answered

How we can know that these users are your partners and you're providing to them miners?
I mean you're a newbie without a website, without alibaba, just a telegram account... I am not accusing you but for sure it's a bit strange that a big suppliers has nothing then a ... telegram account ...

BTW the choice of escrow is a critical aspect, that's why people are asking several times.... and until now what you have always repeated is that "you will only rely on ALIBABA automatic system".

Ok I understand that "human beings" can make mistakes. You can explain an issue to human... and of course if they make a mistake they lose trust, it's their main interest avoid any issue .... and for sure escrows (reputable/bigger ones here on forum) doesn't need to SCAM ANYONE

An automatic system can be very well defrauded (example how does the automatic system check that they have sent to the correct address a WORKING miner? ehehehhe )

I think you need to evaluate the chance to have also 1/2 of escrows from forum.
People will be assured to made this kind of transactions.

[YCTMatt]

...
Automated system would be ALWAYS more trusted than any human being.
As i said above, statistics shows that people scam quit for many reasons, system cannot scam quit.
Not sure why different people repeat same questions which were already answered

How we can know that these users are your partners and you're providing to them miners?
I mean you're a newbie without a website, without alibaba, just a telegram account... I am not accusing you but for sure it's a bit strange that a big suppliers has nothing then a ... telegram account ...

BTW the choice of escrow is a critical aspect, that's why people are asking several times.... and until now what you have always repeated is that "you will only rely on ALIBABA automatic system".

Ok I understand that "human beings" can make mistakes. You can explain an issue to human... and of course if they make a mistake they lose trust, it's their main interest avoid any issue .... and for sure escrows (reputable/bigger ones here on forum) doesn't need to SCAM ANYONE

An automatic system can be very well defrauded (example how does the automatic system check that they have sent to the correct address a WORKING miner? ehehehhe )

I think you need to evaluate the chance to have also 1/2 of escrows from forum.
People will be assured to made this kind of transactions.

You asking me how you should ask Alibaba seller anything ? They have WhatsApp numbers Feel free to contact them and ask for YCT Matt
Also, i am not aware why that is so important consider the buyer will use shop from Alibaba with thousands of feedback and escrow system?

You saying automatic system can be very well defrauded ? Then defraud it and get paid for your knowledge so they can make it better, that's what big company doing for people who can defraud their security systems.
If you are such a genius who can defraud Alibaba escrow service, i admire you and i believe you should be paid for that knowledge.
P.S: I am not interested to use escrow from the forum. Sadly it is known as paradise of scammers way better than Telegram because of the non-moderated scams.
Before we register, we read a lot for this forum.
I will repeat once again myself, we respect each and any escrow that is legit here from years, and we can only be happy that kind of people exists, but we trust more systems than humans. Because humans are greedy, scamming and they may have serious reasons to scam quit.
Nothing against bitcointalk escrows, for sure those who operate from years are proven legit, and we don't say they are not.
We are saying that no one ever can know when a individual can be forced by bad situations in their life to do something that can affect both us as sellers and our buyers such as scamming.