Honest Coin Initiative -- fighting the shitcoin insurgency

[spiffcow]

With the recent wave of scam coins I've realize that if I want to see any new, unique, non-scam coins, I'll have to create them myself or with the help of others.  What I propose is to form a group dedicated to releasing a series of novel cryptocurrencies in an honest fashion.  That means:

- no scrypt coins
- no IPOs
- no premining
- no instamining
- each coin must do *something* new and interesting
- must use our primary pseudonyms
- each coin launch will be subject to review, and any member caught skirting the rules will be kicked out
- under no circumstance will any member ever benefit from a coin launch beyond what they themselves can mine

I'm new to coin development but have a decent amount of software engineering experience.  I'm looking for other devs, graphic designers, promoters, and of course miners.  I want to work in a group that produces coins to be proud of, and I want miners to see the 'Honest Coin Initiative' logo and say 'I'm mining that coin!'.  

So, who's with me?

Edit:

Please review the first coin proposal under the HCI: ReactiveCoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=557428.new#new

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[DemetriusAstroBlack]

Too late, market is flooded.

[spiffcow]

Too late, market is flooded.

This latest wave of altcoins will crash and burn with only a few valuable ones left standing.  The next wave needs transparancy, and that's what I want to bring to the table.

[Rofo]

This latest wave of altcoins will crash and burn with only a few valuable ones left standing.  The next wave needs transparancy, and that's what I want to bring to the table.

It's already been bought to the table mate, won't make a difference until things get more shook up than they are now.

[billotronic]

Disregard the naysayers and build yourself a team of like minded individuals... there are plently of em here.

but ffs don't rush and don't get discouraged. If you pull it off it will all be worth it.

More positive solutions to the shitcoin wave is very much needed around these parts.

[Rofo]

More positive solutions to the shitcoin wave is very much needed around these parts.

The fact of the matter is transparent or shitcoin, either way, is irrelevant. People want new coins and new coins only to profit from. If it were any different then older, more established coins would have more support. The free market has chosen what it wants for now, a greater shake up or paradigm is required because the alternatives to 'shit coins' are already out there.

Edit: This doesn't even need to count as a plug for Noble, there are older coins out there that follow the same path.

[markm]

That is normal for ponzis and pyramids. New is always better, as the old ones its too late to "get in on the ground floor".

The original poster of this thread is just another ponzi/pyramid schemer looking to make new schemes instead of actualyl doing real work building support infrastructure that actually makes currency useful else they wouldn't be urging the making of even more schemes but instead the making of useful infrastructure, businesses and such.

-MarkM-

[spiffcow]

That is normal for ponzis and pyramids. New is always better, as the old ones its too late to "get in on the ground floor".

The original poster of this thread is just another ponzi/pyramid schemer looking to make new schemes instead of actualyl doing real work building support infrastructure that actually makes currency useful else they wouldn't be urging the making of even more schemes but instead the making of useful infrastructure, businesses and such.

-MarkM-

We need "new" at the moment because ASICs are taking over the mining of scrypt coins.  There's only a few options currently available for GPU miners, and those options are pretty fucking terrible.  There's plenty of technical changes to be done still, but it's all pointless if it comes with a massive premine.  I have a big enough set of rigs that I don't give a shit about getting premine -- just having a decent coin to mine is reward enough for me. 

[Rofo]

You don't want to argue that against -MarkM-, he believes quite strongly in the power of ASICs to provide the needed security of chains to ensure they actually work and last as a global currency. To be honest I strongly agree with him (and have copied a fair number of his points while we try to make the case to our community). For any of these coins to become what they claim to want to be (massive successful digital currencies that last years), sooner or later you have to surrender to advancing technology to strengthen the coin.

There are alternatives out there with a difficulty of 3, something tells me ASICs aren't destroying your life right now.

[markm]

Arguing that you want something to use your GPUs on is just ike buggy whip makers arguing that they want someone to sell their buggy whips to.

If you want welfare just go apply for welfare.

If you want to get into the business of securing a blockchain, or to stay in that business, tool up with the hardware needed to actually secure the damn thing.

All this argument that we need to build new roads that automobiles cannot traverse because buggy whip makers need to make a living is perverse.

-MarkM-

[spiffcow]

Arguing that you want something to use your GPUs on is just ike buggy whip makers arguing that they want someone to sell their buggy whips to.

If you want welfare just go apply for welfare.

If you want to get into the business of securing a blockchain, or to stay in that business, tool up with the hardware needed to actually secure the damn thing.

All this argument that we need to build new roads that automobiles cannot traverse because buggy whip makers need to make a living is perverse.

-MarkM-

Most of that hardware is in the hands of a very small number of people.  Bitcoin is more vulnerable now than it was in 2012 because taking control of only maybe 2 entities (mining contract pools) could fork the blockchain.  We certainly don't need the shitloads of coins currently in the market, but there are good reasons to have ASIC-resistant coins, and not all those reasons are greed.

I realize my arguments won't sway you (largely because you probably have a large investment in ASIC hardware and/or made a lot on BTC already and don't really care), but to me crypto is fun and finding different ways to design a cryptocoin is a worthwhile venture, one that's been largely ruined by recent scams. 

[markm]

There are many makers of ASIC chips, and you can pick up block eruptors dirt cheap if you just want to do it as a hobby.

DOGE showed that GPU coins are not secure, by whipping up amost overnight enough hashing power to have PWNd litecoin had it chosen to whip up that power for PWNining instead of just to make yet another crapcoin.

ASICs are not in few hands, lots and lots of people have them.

Maybe more important in the long run might be how many nations have cheap enough electricity to make mining even reach break-even once people actually are mining efficiently. At some point the contest will be who can generate electricity cheapest as much as or more than who has the most efficient chips.

So maybe you will then also argue that miners should be using human-powered electrical generators and eat the cheapest most efficient foods so as to be able to power the most hashes per GPU per miner fairly? Since maybe most people cannot afford gas or liquid powered generators and don't have good sun so human power is fairest?

-MarkM-

[spiffcow]

There are many makers of ASIC chips, and you can pick up block eruptors dirt cheap if you just want to do it as a hobby.

DOGE showed that GPU coins are not secure, by whipping up amost overnight enough hashing power to have PWNd litecoin had it chosen to whip up that power for PWNining instead of just to make yet another crapcoin.

ASICs are not in few hands, lots and lots of people have them.

Maybe more important in the long run might be how many nations have cheap enough electricity to make mining even reach break-even once people actually are mining efficiently. At some point the contest will be who can generate electricity cheapest as much as or more than who has the most efficient chips.

So maybe you will then also argue that miners should be using human-powered electrical generators and eat the cheapest most efficient foods so as to be able to power the most hashes per GPU per miner fairly? Since maybe most people cannot afford gas or liquid powered generators and don't have good sun so human power is fairest?

-MarkM-

And who owned all those GPUs?  Certainly not this guy: http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/2/5165428/bitcoin-mine-in-hong-kong-uses-jelly-to-keep-cool.  It took tens of thousands of miners to get that much hashing power, not just a few people with a lot of resources.

But beyond this, you're missing the whole point for many mid-sized miners: this hobby is fun.  It's fucking poker and baseball cards rolled into one.  Some of the coins will even go on to make it big and become an actual means of transaction or even a store of value.  Sorry if that offends you, but for some of us it's actually fun.

[B2BigAl]

That is normal for ponzis and pyramids. New is always better, as the old ones its too late to "get in on the ground floor".

The original poster of this thread is just another ponzi/pyramid schemer looking to make new schemes instead of actualyl doing real work building support infrastructure that actually makes currency useful else they wouldn't be urging the making of even more schemes but instead the making of useful infrastructure, businesses and such.

-MarkM-

Whatever your thoughts about his ideas, I know spiffcow, and I can assure you he is no ponzi/pyramid schemer.  He, like many others, are tired of the pump and dump, IPO, pre-mined, insta-mined, shit coins that are ruining crypto currencies.  There is a lot of room for innovation, and a lot of room for improvement over older, existing currencies, but frankly the whole thing is turning into a joke.  Every day its another scam, failed launch, failed coin, etc.  We can argue about asics and infrastructure all day long, but the fact is, bitcoin, litecoin, etc have all gotten their start as CPU/GPU mined coins.  CPU/GPU mining is what has introduced a vast number of people to cryto currencies, and CPU/GPU mining is the most likely place for new ideas and evolution to take place.  These scam coins are giving all crypto currencies a bad name, and whether you like it or not, they're just going to keep popping up unless we all band together to put a stop to it.  

[wbaw]

OK, spiffcow, I'm in. Seems a good idea to have some kind of standards.

[YarkoL]

Finally! something constructive. Couple of questions though.

- no scrypt coins

From purely technical view, what are the grounds to discriminate against this specific algorithm?

each coin must do *something* new and interesting

I think this needs some elaboration. Would a novel approach to distributing the coins qualify as interesting, or does the interestingness have to always reside at the level of the code? Can innovation be social (what will be done with the coins) or is innovation perceived solely as technical (how to coin has been done)?

[minairia3]

Here's what we need to revive the market:

1.) Some big box merchant or chain produces a corporate coin with official backing.  There are rumors but nothing concrete yet.

2.) Some celebrity comes out/backs an official coin in their name.

3.) Some country/region produces an official real nation coin and they use the huge premine to fund schools, roads, etc.  Airdrops are stupid and kill the value because there is no infrastructure to use the coins. The plan would be to sell a constant drip of premine coins for dollars to fund projects.  A smart country could also set-up mining operations to top up the general fund and hire a couple of traders to play along with the pump and dump to add to the general fund.  A plain old scypt coin that would attract miners, pump/dumpers, etc. would be perfect.

Up until now altcoins haven't had any official backing.  The closest was Mazacoin and they just fell apart because of infighting and/or stupidity: not sure.  Doge is only one to make it into the real world and they're getting killed value wise.  The founders of Doge could have have done something formal with VCs but refused.

[shinep]

I think we need to increase the awareness of the coins.
Even now the crypto currencies are traded by only a handfull of people for a quick pump and dump.
We need to create more services, so that people should see value in trading with cryptocoins.
Its a long journey to get there.

[ghur]

"there are too many shitcoins. let's create a new shitcoin"

[iGotSpots]

The ones in my sig