[In Development] Lightning forum tips

[BlackHatCoiner]

I'm developing a free forum service which will be consisted of a plugin, a front-end and a back-end. I need some feedback from the community to know how should I orientate this project.

This is how I currently think about it: Users can tip each other via Lightning by either using lightning invoices (BOLT 11), lightning offers (BOLT 12) or keysend. My server will hold no funds, it will only act as an intermediary that'll exchange invoices, offers or nodes' public keys. To have your tip shown publicly (like merits), you'll need to pay in invoice, because that's the only way my server can know the money is sent (other options like offer and keysend don't interact with my server*).

I'd like you to complete this form so I can have a better idea of what you'd like. Please make a post, replacing "Y/N" with "Yes" or "No" according to you. 

Code:

1. I would want such service: Y/N
2. I have a Lightning node running: Y/N
3. If yes, I use: (Choose: "Core Lightning", "LND", "eclair")
4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: Y/N
5. I prefer paying in: (Choose "invoice", "offer", "keysend", "other")
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): Y/N
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: Y/N

* Paying an invoice is neither known exactly by the intermediary, but installing a Core Lightning donation plugin and make it connect to it, makes it possible to know if someone paid it.

[mocacinno]

Code:

1. I would want such service: Y
2. I have a Lightning node running: Y
3. If yes, I use:c-lightning
4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: Not Applicable
5. I prefer paying in: keysend
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): Y
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: Y

[FatFork]

Code:

1. I would want such service: Yes
2. I have a Lightning node running: No
3. If yes, I use: n/a
4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: Yes
5. I prefer paying in: don't know
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): Yes
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: Yes

[bitmover]

Code:

1. I would want such service: Y
2. I have a Lightning node running: N

4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: N
5. I prefer paying in: ("keysend")
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): Y
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: i don't have

I was thinking about number 6. Maybe you need a browser extension to show in the forum who tipped, right?

A tipping would be amazing here.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I was thinking about number 6. Maybe you need a browser extension to show in the forum who tipped, right?

Yes. Similarly to BPIP, once posts are in the process of loading, my plugin will connect to my server's database and check for tipped posts.

[FatFork]

I was thinking about number 6. Maybe you need a browser extension to show in the forum who tipped, right?

Yes. Similarly to BPIP, once posts are in the process of loading, my plugin will connect to my server's database and check for tipped posts.

In my understanding, we'll need a browser extension for tipping as well. There is no other way around this, unless theymos decides to integrate LN tipping into the current forum software, right?

[BlackHatCoiner]

In my understanding, we'll need a browser extension for tipping as well. There is no other way around this, unless theymos decides to integrate LN tipping into the current forum software, right?

Yes. You'll need to install my extension (whose source code will be fully transparent), unless it's merged with BPIP.

[dkbit98]

Yes. Similarly to BPIP, once posts are in the process of loading, my plugin will connect to my server's database and check for tipped posts.

Oh so that is why you wanted to use BPIP code few days ago (suchmoon gave his blessing) so this could be considered a first ever BPIP fork, let's call it BPIP Cash
Is this extension going to be used only for Lightning forum tips, or you will try to combine current BPIP options with your own?
Second quick question: What happens if your server goes down?

PS
I think this topic should better be moved to Project Development or Services, instead of Meta.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Oh so that is why you wanted to use BPIP code few days ago (suchmoon gave his blessing) so this could be considered a first ever BPIP fork, let's call it BPIP Cash

I'm not going to fork BPIP. If suchmoon and ibminer want this change, let it be. If not, I'll be happy to use 2 different extensions. I only address for merge for the sake of simplicity.

Is this extension going to be used only for Lightning forum tips, or you will try to combine current BPIP options with your own?

Just for lightning tips.

Second quick question: What happens if your server goes down?

If my server goes down, you can't tip. As a beta version, one server is enough. If we observe some serious recognition, we can try out multiple servers (or "mirrors" in this case) from trustworthy users.

[Welsh]

Code:

1. I would want such service: Y
2. I have a Lightning node running: N
3. If yes, I use: N/A
4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: Y
5. I prefer paying in: "offer", "keysend"
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): N/A, Wouldn't be all that bothered. 
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: Y 

Yes. You'll need to install my extension (whose source code will be fully transparent), unless it's merged with BPIP.

Regardless of if it was merged or not, I think it would be nice to have a standalone version with the full source being openly available. Some users might not want the additional functionality that BPIP brings, and the potential bloat of it.

[LoyceV]

Code:

1. I would want such service: Yes or No: I don't think I'll install a plugin, but if there's a possibility to use it for instance through a website, I'll use it.
2. I have a Lightning node running: No. Especially for small amounts, a client side wallet is much more convenient.

4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: Yes. For small amounts, I don't mind using a custodial wallet.
5. I prefer paying in: I'm not sure. I've only used invoices and have no experience with "keysend". Ideally, it should just work, without the user knowing the inner details.
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): Lol! I can think of so many ways to mess with this: "tipped by LNisIOU (1)". But if you keep track like Merit: why not automate it to follow Merit: for each Merit you sent, you also send N times that amount in sats.
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: Not my node, but if my wallet would work: sure.

In my understanding, we'll need a browser extension for tipping as well. There is no other way around this, unless theymos decides to integrate LN tipping into the current forum software, right?

What if it's on a third-party site such as BlackHatTipping.com or integrated into bpip.org? It'll be less convenient though.

[NotATether]

Code:

1. I would want such service: Yes
2. I have a Lightning node running: No
4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: Yes
5. I prefer paying in: <don't know the difference in any of these, whatever is most convenient for me to receive in>
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): No <that would be too confusing, use another text>
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: Yes

If running a lightning node does not require routine maintainence for optimal node usefulness, then I might consider. Bitcoin Core doesn't need to be flushed or anything like that, it just works smoothly.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Bump. I'm afraid there's very little demand.

[NeuroticFish]

I didn't want to answer because I don't want to give false hopes. Maybe I'm too negativist, but I don't think that this will get enough traction on short term. Maybe on long term.
No offense, the idea / project is good, but I feel like the vast majority on bitcoinitalk is not generous.

Even more, my use of LN is limited yet (yes, shame on me). I do have, however, a LN wallet in Blue Wallet (custodial). Maybe, with some guidance, I will do even better.

Code:

1. I would want such service: Yes, sure
2. I have a Lightning node running: No
4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: Yes
5. I prefer paying in: I don't know. I don't know the difference
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): it doesn't matter to me
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: Yes, but will probably need guidance

[Welsh]

I don't think that this will get enough traction on short term. Maybe on long term.
No offense, the idea / project is good, but I feel like the vast majority on bitcoinitalk is not generous.

I think it'll be the opposite. Those that have expressed interest in it will use it at the very beginning, but since there isn't going to be a lot of users using it in the first place, those users will likely drop off in the long term.

Generally speaking, not many people are willing to tip others for good information, a select few are more willing to give money for people that solved their problem, but with the internet these days, that's becoming less true since the information is already out there for free.

Also, it doesn't help that Bitcoin is literally treated like it's gold dust around here. The idea is good, and I could imagine it would be really fun to participate in, but in reality no one is going to want to continue to give tips in the long run.

[NeuroticFish]

Also, it doesn't help that Bitcoin is literally treated like it's gold dust around here.

My expectations are that in the future - quite a good number of years - maybe Bitcoin will be treated less like "my preciousssss" and more like actual money.
Then this could get more traction.

The point about the info already available is also good, although some just don't know how to use it for their specific case and that will still be/keep being helpful.

[BlackHatCoiner]

No offense, the idea / project is good, but I feel like the vast majority on bitcoinitalk is not generous.

Maybe it just doesn't fit in here. We already have merits, how far can this go? I mean, if we didn't have merits, it'd make (again, little) sense to have a tipping page for established members.

It also seems like most established users don't have Lightning node, which is very disappointing. From this very page, 8 (established) users have submitted the form, and only 1 does have a Lightning node running. Seems like we're still early. Lightning users with a node can't just pause there.

I think it'll be the opposite. Those that have expressed interest in it will use it at the very beginning, but since there isn't going to be a lot of users using it in the first place, those users will likely drop off in the long term.

And as I said, I'm sure some users will want from the rest to know they tipped, just as merits. And this appears to be technically infeasible for me.


Thank you for submitting the form. If I hadn't thought of this, I'd spare more hours on designing it. I'll abandon it for now, unless there's more demand. The topic remains normally open.

[NeuroticFish]

Thank you for submitting the form. If I hadn't thought of this, I'd spare more hours on designing it. I'll abandon it for now, unless there's more demand. The topic remains normally open.

I didn't want to give false hopes... and now I've become the party crasher
I'm sorry 

[BlackHatCoiner]

No, you're not. You've just expressed your opinion, and helped me clear out this issue of mine by submitting the form. I wasn't going to continue developing it if I hadn't sufficient responses either way. That's why I leave it open, and don't just close it and shut the whole thing down.

It doesn't feel nice abandoning projects, but if you're about to setup a probable party-failure, it's better to just cancel it already. 

[TryNinja]

Code:

1. I would want such service: Y
2. I have a Lightning node running: N
3. If yes, I use: n/a
4. If I don't have a Lightning node running, I'd still want a tipping service with an option to not hold custody of funds: Y
5. I prefer paying in: Keysend
6. I want my tipping be shown just as merit (i.e., "merited by BlackHatCoiner (8)"): Y
7. If such service was available I'd submit my node to earn tips: I would consider running my own node and doing so

I would happily use this on a daily basis (even if limited to 50c tips).